Per All Access, Ford is moving their HD radios from dealer-installed to factory-installed beginning in 2009.
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FORD HD RADIOS FACTORY-INSTALLED IN '09
- Thread starter dumber than a box of hair
- Start date
dumber than a box of hair said:
The HD radios will also probably have a cd player along as standard feature as well but how many people do you see toting cd cases anymore?
Most people listen on mp3 players and now have the capability of plugging the unit to the radio or amplifier so the question remains WHO still listens to radio since most download new music from any number of internet music sites and the trend is to listen and get new music over the net, most young people don't even listen to radio anymore!
Radiopilot
radiopilot said:
I have not been able to confirm this from anywhere including All Access. However if true it's not amazing. The former announcement was from an email from someone who had a relative that claimed to work in Ford design. I'll believe this when I see it, although it would be welcome news.
It is amusing that even if this is the case, some goofballs are still ragging on HD because it will hae a CD player.
Ahh I-Pod myopia. It's like baseball fever. Catch it.
Clouseau
clouseau said:
Yes it's VERY laughable, I imagine you have not visited a college, university, or even a high school lately to see any number of kids or even adults listening to a 'radio' or toting a 'cd player' along with a 'cd case' lately?
Even here at the place I'm contracting at there isn't even a radio in sight, most are either listening to internet radio (UTC - Sikorsky Helicopters) just to let you know bandwidth isn't an issue as others have implied...
Truly... alot of you radio guys are out of touch with reality!
Radiopilot
clouseau said:
Clueless Clouseau,
I never said car radios or boomboxes or whatever doesn't have a cd player, but that most kids and probably a large adult segment is not toting 'cd's' around, most are listening either to an mp3 player and hooking this to the car radio as well at home, I don't listen to 'cd's' anymore, music is now in my ipod/cellphone and it's hooked up to my car radio, and I imagine most kids/adults are now doing this since most radios now have the Ipod/mp3 device hookup, so if you're not listening to mp3/ipod, then you're listening to satelite, but I've yet to have anyone tell me they listen to radio at the university/high school I frequent or the companies I contract at... only in New Port Richey, FL. did I actually had someone listening to an HD radio and had it hooked up to an antenna to the outside of the building!
Radiopilot
radiopilot said:
I'll refrain from the third grade name calling antics.
However, I will say I'm now contemplating a carreer change. Maybe I should get out of radio and get into auto design. After all, look at all the money they could save by taking out those standard AM-FM CD players in cars. After all, according to you, no one uses them.
Boy is Detroit stupid. Why don't they see that the Japanese car makers don't include then and discontinue them? Oh wait..
Well it would save money anyway. No radio, just an amplifier.
I realize that those of us who know SOME things are particularly aggrivating to those of you who know EVERYTHING, but here's a news flash. (Just like the one you get on intenet radio except is ACTUALLY EXISTS. The news flash that is.)
There's a lot of money being spent on a medium that according to you has no audience because "if you're not listening to mp3/ipod, then you're listening to satelite"
Why are there radios in cars if no one listens?
I would propose that it is because people are listening. I know that runs contrary to your wisdom, but we rnanage to do a full three hours of sports talk every morning and according to our caller info, they're mostly under 35.
Maybe it's the content as well as the delivery method.
Hows that Pandora weather working out?
Clouseau
dumber than a box of hair said:
http://www.radioink.com/HeadlineEntry.asp?hid=140612&pt=todaysnews
CONFIRMED as per Radio Ink.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled deflection of positive HD radio news.
Clouseau
R
Radioman100
Guest
Let the anti-HD people spin it any way they want. It's impossible to see this as anything but a positive development for us pro-HD folks.
Since the Ford Sync is a computer with a software defined radio in it, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they released a software update that enables HD Radio in all existing units.
I'm guessing iBiquity finally caved on licensing fees.
Since the Ford Sync is a computer with a software defined radio in it, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they released a software update that enables HD Radio in all existing units.
I'm guessing iBiquity finally caved on licensing fees.
Radioman100 said:
It would be interesting to know the real story. If Ibiquity has come to terms with Ford, it is likely that GM Chrysler, Toyota, etc will fall in line too. Perhaps someone at Ibiquity is finally coming to their senses. Maybe they will lower the license costs for stations as well? That is the only way some broadcasters would even consider it at this point.
radiopilot said:
Chrysler installed AM stereo radios in their cars (I had one) and AM stereo actually worked well and it failed big time, what makes you guys think this is a big deal? It will get about as much use a cassette player, or more likely there will be mass returns because most people will think they are defective when they receive nothing, that'll really give radio a shot in the arm, most people won't know the difference between IBOC and normal radio. You could have a flashing neon light on the dash board saying HD! HD! and people would just put a piece of tape over it.
R
Radioman100
Guest
KB1OKL said:
HD Radio works just fine here in this top 10 market, and it works just fine in the other top 10 market just down I-45.
If people like what they hear on the HD2 channels, they'll listen. It's just that simple. Since you have to tune past them on most HD radios to get to the other analog signals, they will surely be discovered.
The AM Stereo analogy has no merit. AM Stereo offered no new programming choices, just the same ol' same ol' with a little stereo separation.
Oh yeah, before the obvious (and tired) comment about HD offering nothing new gets posted next, as I write this I'm listening to HD2. I just heard Baltimora Tarzan Boy followed by Soul II Soul Back To Life followed by INXS Suicide Blonde. Show me an analog station where you can hear that mix!
quantity of radios doesn't matter - the programming does. Here in marketland 75-100, all 3 of the HD2 channels are crap I wouldn't listen to for free, yet alone paying $200 for my HD radio.
Putting the same junk on multiple HD2 channels isn't the answer - turn the kids loose, or put some nice old niche format, like beautiful music, on HD2 where you can get some good advertising dollars for the high TSL you get with that format!
Putting the same junk on multiple HD2 channels isn't the answer - turn the kids loose, or put some nice old niche format, like beautiful music, on HD2 where you can get some good advertising dollars for the high TSL you get with that format!
R
rbrucecarter5
Guest
Radioman100 said:
I agree the Ford decision puts some real momentum behind HD radio. Now it will slug it out with satellite for dashboard slots with consumers. I am very concerned, though, that HD still has little consumer recognition with the public, while satellite has a lot of recognition. Given my experience with HD and satellite - there is one very important difference between the two that overrides the cost differential: HD only goes 35 miles or so - and given how much traveling I do - I find it annoying to have FM drop out at 140 miles as it is. Satellite may cost, but I go from city to city without tinkering with the radio trying to find a station in range. The ___ with the nominal fee, if I have to pay I have to pay. Not having stations go out of range is a major advantage HD simply cannot compete with!
You must be in the Dallas area! Reliable HD reception, however, quits about the Garland / Richardson / Carrollton line. Beyond that, it is probably a home receiver with outdoor antenna phenomenon. Same with Houston, I tried it in Cypress - I could actually see the Mo City towers faintly way in the distance out a second floor window - NO luck with a dipole. Occasional HD symbol flicker, no lock.
One very troublesome aspect - AM HD doesn't work in the DFW market worth a darn. I am literally on top of that 620 blowtorch signal - I still can't get reliable lock with the supplied loop. It takes a serious AM DX tuned box loop to get reliable lock. And not even that works on KAAM, which isn't that far away! And KAAM is far more interesting musically than KMKI. Not sure what HD AMs are in Houston - I got zilch in Cypress. Darn good AM tuner, it just sucks on HD.
Just for the heck of it - I've tried WOAI nighttime from Dallas and Houston - and can't even get an HD detect, not with supplied loop, longwire, or anything else. Dallas I can understand with KFXR on 1190, but WOAI blasts into NW Houston, if it would detect HD anywhere it should have been there. KOA is a blowtorch at night in Dallas - not even a hint of HD lock.
As far as HD-2 content, I find the several second silence when HD falls out of lock very annoying. The average car listener is going to push the button to get another station. Maybe come back when and if the other station plays a suckish song. I do notice that several seconds of content are stored, and will keep lock with a momentary dropout. But in a suburban situation like Dallas or Houston, 35 miles out, it would be a major annoyance in the car. What is needed is faster locking algorithms, MUCH faster, in line with how fast FM stereo locks. Without that - HD-2 is going to be a desirable thing that the majority of suburbanites can't get in the car.
Given that the HD-1 channel is identical to the analog channel, the vast majority of people won't hear a difference. Not with road noise. And suburbanites will have HD in the dash, and never realize it is or isn't working. Unless they understand how to tune an HD-2 channel. AM stereo worked trasparently, HD-2 does NOT. So the comparison with AM stereo is a good one for HD-1, but not HD-2.
Radioman100 said:
Probable not "caved," at least not yet. I'd guess it's more like iBiquity making a deal with Visteon, based on projected sales of the HD radios, giving Visteon something of a discount per receiver. Those license fees are all iBiquity has for income at the moment.
rbrucecarter5 said:
The Digital Radio Co-ordinating Group of Canada published an excellent assessment of FM IBOC last May; it's worth reading if you want an objective "second opinion" of the technology, untainted by the influence of the NAB or NRSC. See:
http://www.cab-acr.ca/english/radio/dab/DRCG_Report_final.pdf
Based on over-the-air HD tests conducted near Toronto, the DRCG concluded that the reliable range of HD2/HD3 broadcasts corresponds to the 3 mV/m contour (approximately 70 dBu, aka "city grade" under FCC rules), which agrees closely with my personal experience.
The reason HD2 lock-up takes several seconds has a lot to do with the "interleaving" of data blocks in the digital signal, which helps to increase immunity to multipath and interference from the analog host. I suppose the acquisition time could be improved, but then the signal would be less robust -- just one of many trade-offs that had to be considered to make digital radio feasible in-band.
Play Freebird said:
Just read through this Canadian report and if you carefully read the lower part of page 22 and page 23 you'll get a clear answer as to why the Canadians aren't jumping through Ibiquity's loops.
I'll let the reader figure it out.
M
Mike Walker
Guest
Reality check. CD sales ARE down. But the vast majority of music sales are still physical media (cd) bought in stores. I-tunes is about the fourth-largest music retailer, behind Wal-Mart, Best Buy, and Target.
Artists, YOUNG artists still routinely sell millions, even tens of millions of CDs of hit music! That music on the Ipod, or Hell, illegally downloaded from the interweb (it's a series of tubes) had to come from somewhere. That somewhere IS CDs!
My car has an mp3 player. It plays mp3 files FROM CDs THAT I BURN! THAT is one of the features MOST sought by car buyers, according to a car-dealer buddy for whom I've produced MANY commericials! And the spots WORKED, TOO! Must've been someone listening to the stations that ran them! Wait...250 MILLION AMERICANS listen to terrestrial radio each week!
Hey, I just spent a few hours today listening to (GASP) LPs(!!!!) on my NEW turntable! I guess i'm not one of those cool college kids, huh!
Artists, YOUNG artists still routinely sell millions, even tens of millions of CDs of hit music! That music on the Ipod, or Hell, illegally downloaded from the interweb (it's a series of tubes) had to come from somewhere. That somewhere IS CDs!
My car has an mp3 player. It plays mp3 files FROM CDs THAT I BURN! THAT is one of the features MOST sought by car buyers, according to a car-dealer buddy for whom I've produced MANY commericials! And the spots WORKED, TOO! Must've been someone listening to the stations that ran them! Wait...250 MILLION AMERICANS listen to terrestrial radio each week!
Hey, I just spent a few hours today listening to (GASP) LPs(!!!!) on my NEW turntable! I guess i'm not one of those cool college kids, huh!
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