I was just thinking, I haven't seen an Arbitron book for E-C is a long while. Are those stations even competitive numbers-wise anymore?
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Foreclosure in Elmira
- Thread starter ThePickleReport
- Start date
Perhaps with all of the financial troubles the company that owns the E/C stations has, they no longer subscribe to Arbitron.ThePickleReport said:
They do not. They haven't for some time.Mark_Giardina said:
J
JustPastBuffalo
Guest
I believe these properties can be viable and profitable if they are (at first, stringently)operated by knowledgeable, conscientious, hands-on broadcasters who have good business and programming skills.
An owner must be in the radio stations every day and take an active role in as many facets of operation as possible, from taking out the trash at the end of the day to meeting with clients and the community leaders.
There are small format gaps in E-C that can be filled, some with minor tweaking of existing formats, some with wholesale changes.
The signals of all three 80-90 FMs are acceptable, given the proper formats and execution. The AMs have revenue generating potential. The devil is always in the details. This is not a time or place for big morning shows and seven person news departments. Having so stated, local news is a prerequisite for success.
A local broadcaster who purchases these facilities will have to work tirelessly and have a realistic vision for the stations' turnaround. Given that commitment, the rewards could be substantial. Nobody will get rich, but one can live comfortably and be rewarded for service to the community.
But first, it's going to take money... a whole lotta money. -George Harrison
An owner must be in the radio stations every day and take an active role in as many facets of operation as possible, from taking out the trash at the end of the day to meeting with clients and the community leaders.
There are small format gaps in E-C that can be filled, some with minor tweaking of existing formats, some with wholesale changes.
The signals of all three 80-90 FMs are acceptable, given the proper formats and execution. The AMs have revenue generating potential. The devil is always in the details. This is not a time or place for big morning shows and seven person news departments. Having so stated, local news is a prerequisite for success.
A local broadcaster who purchases these facilities will have to work tirelessly and have a realistic vision for the stations' turnaround. Given that commitment, the rewards could be substantial. Nobody will get rich, but one can live comfortably and be rewarded for service to the community.
But first, it's going to take money... a whole lotta money. -George Harrison
JustPastBuffalo said:
I am in total agreement with your statement. It does take someone with a background in broadcasting, plus dedication and a lot of hours spent on site.
Personally I believe that markets like E/C could offer a good future for either up-and-coming broadcasters, or even some veterans who either have lost their jobs in larger markets, or desire to return to a less hectic life-style.
Unfortunately I don't know many people with a background in broadcasting that has the type of capital needed today to purchase E/C and make the necessary changes required. And trying to secure a loan from a bank is pretty tough, considering the current state of our nation's economy.
The scenario I see happening is that a group of local businesses in E/C get together and buy the stations and hopefully would find qualified people to run them. Or another out-of-town mini-me conglomerate will come in, buy the stations, and you end up what is currently being offered.
Mark_Giardina said:
I think your previous scenario was correct when you wrote that, in your opinion, some religious organization will come in and buy the Corning-Elmira stations. After all religious operations have cash on hand.
Can a religious organization make a go of it with FLN right in their back yard? Several years ago, I remember that a guy named Dan Brownlee who owned a religious FM in DuBois, PA bought a frequency in the E-C market and tried to make a go of it. IIRC, it was a rather dismal failure. One of the things that has always amazed me, was that when Route 81 bought this group, they picked up the 2 gigantic heritage calls of WENY & WENY-FM. Transmitter power aside, that's a lot of name power to acquire, and they have done nothing with it. They also had the WCBA name as well. They chose to essentially waste that opportunity, and it made no sense. When you get right down to it, a mil and a half to 2 mil isn't really a lot of money to buy 6 signals. They have a fine facility, and Mark Saia has done a reasonable job keeping things going with what little they allow their engineers to spend. So even if someone (who were real broadcasters) came from another market and rolled up their sleeves and went to work, that cluster could be a pretty decent little operation. Hopefully that's what will happen. I hate to see things just fall apart because owners have no money, or are just trying to squeeze a station like an orange.
The biggest problem right now is that nobody is going to be able to borrow money to buy radio stations - especially if there's little or no real estate of value to act as collateral.
Not long ago, $170K would get you $1.7-million in loans if the radio station was breaking even. The interest rates would go down if your down payment went up, or the financials for the stations showed stronger.
Now, you'd better be able to put a third or more down, and don't even think about getting near the prime rate on the loan.
Not long ago, $170K would get you $1.7-million in loans if the radio station was breaking even. The interest rates would go down if your down payment went up, or the financials for the stations showed stronger.
Now, you'd better be able to put a third or more down, and don't even think about getting near the prime rate on the loan.
This goes back to previous posts regarding "terms of sale." It certainly is a risky venture these days, not for the faint of heart. As the posts indicate, many here have great dreams. The cold, hard reality is, dreams don't buy radio stations. Money... lots of it... does.
JustPastBuffalo said:
Agreed 100%. I think that's the new reality these days---actually we might be back to the OLD reality. Even the smallest of publicly traded groups are hurting, and stories keep coming out that the small markets are outperforming the larger markets.
Its going to take someone whose only interest is making a living in E-C to really make a difference and get those stations to perform. Decisions need to be made at the local level. I'm convinced of that.
Mark_Giardina said:
The book down there is "client exclusive" so no numbers are posted. Geez, even a top ten stations ranking with no 12+ numbers would be nice. Another reason to hate Arbitron.
We're subscribers (Europa)....I'm not completely sure what's allowed. I think this is OK; M to Su 6a to 12M; 25 to 54 adults WMTT is first with double digits; WNKI is 2nd single digits; WOKN is 3rd; WLVY is 4th; 4 stations tied for 5th. Not to trumpet our own horn, WMTT has been first 8 of the past nine ratings periods.
KF
KF
This too should be OK then...
12+
1. WNKI
2. WLVY/WMTT
3. WOKN
WLVY #1 in Chemung County
12+
1. WNKI
2. WLVY/WMTT
3. WOKN
WLVY #1 in Chemung County
Chemungradio, you are incorrect;
12 plus M to Su 6a to 12Mid Spring 08; Metro Survey area, Chemung, Steuben N, Steuben S is:
1. WNKI
2. WMTT
3. WLVY/WOKN tied
Of course 12 plus is the beauty contest; various stations can spin whichever demo they are focusing on as we do at WMTT (25-54 adults). Congrats to WLVY, this is a big bounce back and their best share since Sp 06. This was a pretty flat book, no real big changes, no one (other than LVY) gained or lost more than 1.4.
KF
12 plus M to Su 6a to 12Mid Spring 08; Metro Survey area, Chemung, Steuben N, Steuben S is:
1. WNKI
2. WMTT
3. WLVY/WOKN tied
Of course 12 plus is the beauty contest; various stations can spin whichever demo they are focusing on as we do at WMTT (25-54 adults). Congrats to WLVY, this is a big bounce back and their best share since Sp 06. This was a pretty flat book, no real big changes, no one (other than LVY) gained or lost more than 1.4.
KF
Kevin Fitzgerald said:
I still don't understand why they don't do the Met in Binghamton. It's a superb format. Q107 will never have numbers, Cool 100, forget it...I don't want to insult it here. If the Cool/Q management were smart, the Met would be here and wipe away Whale, Bear & KGB all in one swoop. Remember I said if they were smart.
Kenroberts said:
I was using standard metro 12+, not specific areas...Where MTT and LVY are tied 12+
This book came out last week, metro survey area as listed in the Arb Ebook I received. In the Elmira-Corning, NY market (as in other condensed markets) under Target Listener Trends it lists the past two ratings periods to create a two book average; listed on the page as SP08FA07. WMTT beats WLVY by 1.1 points 12 plus, I am looking at the page right now, I know my eyesight is going but I am wearing my reading glasses and I know what I see. Maybe you are running some program that extrapolates Spring 08 from Fall 07, this would reduce the sample size to an inconsistent level. Again, 12 plus is a beauty contest and means nothing except to crazy people like you and me chemungradio.
Kevin
Kevin
You are wise Kevin...The numbers I listed were spring 08 only...
my point was simply that WLVY seems to be on the right track, and that LVY as a female and teen station isn't going to be that strong in persons 25-54...However they did have some impressive adult numbers...at least enough for others to notice for a change...
Makes you wonder why CHR doesn't get much play in Binghamton when it does so well (WNKI/WLVY) in little Elmira...
my point was simply that WLVY seems to be on the right track, and that LVY as a female and teen station isn't going to be that strong in persons 25-54...However they did have some impressive adult numbers...at least enough for others to notice for a change...
Makes you wonder why CHR doesn't get much play in Binghamton when it does so well (WNKI/WLVY) in little Elmira...
Chemungradio, you guys at LVY do a very good job of localizing your CHR format (Wink is pretty good too), if you were in Bing. you would do very well, the Bing. hit stations sometimes come off as too corporate....kind of off the rack. You guys sound real which is all too lacking in radio today. Of course we'd all be lambs to the Glen Pitcher slaughter of us on WHWK....just kidding. He does have great numbers on WHWK and I'm proud to say he did mornings on WMTT. This reminds me.....why the hell aren't there two country stations in Bing.?? Froggy and JR fit nicely down here in the Scranton market. JR is old and new and Froggy is hot country (both FM).
Mr. Kevin..Over the years there have been attempts at two country stations in the Binghamton market, and at one point there were 3. If you go back to the ancient days, WKOP at 1360 was the "Country Giant" and for awhile in the very late 70's and early 1980's, WEBO in Owego went country against WKOP. All of that went away when 98.1 switched from being Beautiful Music (WQYT) and became the Hawk. Then around 1999 Clear Channel put it's 107 channel on as The Bee competing against the Hawk. After Bob Adams arrived at Citadel and fired long time morning guys Jerry & Dave, they went over to The Bee, and then Clear Channel also turned 680 WINR into a classic country format which simulcasted Jerry & Dave during the morning, and then separated into current & classic formats after 10am. The WINR "experiment" lasted about 6-8 months, and then they took WINR back to a music of your life format. It wasn't much longer after that that CC did away with The Bee and tried out a classic rock format against The Whale, which has really gone nowhere. It would make sense for Citadel to return the original WKOP calls to 1360 and do a classic country format with the "hot country" format continuing on The Hawk. But of course since it would make sense for them to do that and maximize on the history and heritage of the WKOP & WHWK calls, it's obvious that they won't do it.
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