Forever tranquil.

[soloman]

No new changes at Forever. Good reports on QwkRock. Maybe things have finally settled and they have turned the corner in the State College office. :

 

[tsimpson]

I am not privy to anything but the talk on the street. In can say that when talk about one radio station or group is bad then it sheds a bad light on all of us. Stability has been around for a while at most stations but we can be our own worst enemy by ripping and tearing at the slightest perceived issues. The average listener has no idea or concern with most of what is our daily lives. Its like the guy down at the sewage treatment plant who has a thousand worries but Joe public only sees that the job is done and they dont care how.

My biggest issue is that complaints about any radio group or station tend to empower advertisers with invalid objections towards all radio here. Reps go in and hear "this station is doing this" Maybe the guy bringing it up is just gossiping or repeating the party line so to speak, but I still hear things about my station that happened 20 or more years ago.

To me we are all painted with a broad stroke. What is said about one radio station is cast upon all of us. All the time newspaper gets %80 of the money and the rates go up and up while the readership goes down and down. I can throw stats around all day but you all know how I feel.

 

[wiifm]

I am not privy to anything but the talk on the street. In can say that when talk about one radio station or group is bad then it sheds a bad light on all of us. Stability has been around for a while at most stations but we can be our own worst enemy by ripping and tearing at the slightest perceived issues. The average listener has no idea or concern with most of what is our daily lives. Its like the guy down at the sewage treatment plant who has a thousand worries but Joe public only sees that the job is done and they dont care how.

My biggest issue is that complaints about any radio group or station tend to empower advertisers with invalid objections towards all radio here. Reps go in and hear "this station is doing this" Maybe the guy bringing it up is just gossiping or repeating the party line so to speak, but I still hear things about my station that happened 20 or more years ago.

To me we are all painted with a broad stroke. What is said about one radio station is cast upon all of us. All the time newspaper gets %80 of the money and the rates go up and up while the readership goes down and down. I can throw stats around all day but you all know how I feel.

The average listener also does not read this board.

Are you saying we shouldn't be allowed to criticize? Sorry, but I completely disagree with you.

 

[Becker]

I am not privy to anything but the talk on the street. In can say that when talk about one radio station or group is bad then it sheds a bad light on all of us. Stability has been around for a while at most stations but we can be our own worst enemy by ripping and tearing at the slightest perceived issues. The average listener has no idea or concern with most of what is our daily lives. Its like the guy down at the sewage treatment plant who has a thousand worries but Joe public only sees that the job is done and they dont care how.

My biggest issue is that complaints about any radio group or station tend to empower advertisers with invalid objections towards all radio here. Reps go in and hear "this station is doing this" Maybe the guy bringing it up is just gossiping or repeating the party line so to speak, but I still hear things about my station that happened 20 or more years ago.

To me we are all painted with a broad stroke. What is said about one radio station is cast upon all of us. All the time newspaper gets %80 of the money and the rates go up and up while the readership goes down and down. I can throw stats around all day but you all know how I feel.

The average listener also does not read this board.

Are you saying we shouldn't be allowed to criticize? Sorry, but I completely disagree with you.

I disagree with you. The average listener does read this board. I'm one of those average listeners. I just happen to be an active listener as well.

I do agree that you can criticize all that you wish. It is your right to do that. Just remember that with your right to criticize comes the rights of others to disagree with you.

I also agree with tsimpson that most listeners really don't care about what goes on behind the scenes. They only hear the end product and that is all they care about.

 

[mock3]

Most listeners do not read this board. A few might find it in a search for a station web site. That is all. Normal people have much better things to do.

 

[shilton]

I think the fact that the market itself was in such a state of flux for so long had a serious impact on ANY of us to effectively market the stations to advertisers. In a short period of time, hot 107.9 fell, Hot 103 was born. Qwk was shuffled on the dial TWICE, Jazz was pulled from the dial, then resurfaced then was pulled again. WOWY moved frequencies, G101 tinkered with their CHR image somewhat to lean a tad more adult during the daytime, B94.5 was created. Lite moved to a new frequency. The "Buzz" became Joe. 3-WZ started leaning more CHR-Like. Basically all that was left untouched was the Bus, and the Frog (EXCEPT FOR THE AM''s) so to the average consumer, radio was very unstable. I can see where it would be a tough sell to any advertiser.

Provided no one gets nuts and starts swapping frequencies or formats anytime soon, I think the market has been stabilized long enough that this is no longer a concern and everyone can get out there and sell their wares again.

 

[Polonius]

Provided no one gets nuts and starts swapping frequencies or formats anytime soon, I think the market has been stabilized long enough that this is no longer a concern and everyone can get out there and sell their wares again.
[/quote]

What color is the sky in your world?

 

[shilton]

Provided no one gets nuts and starts swapping frequencies or formats anytime soon, I think the market has been stabilized long enough that this is no longer a concern and everyone can get out there and sell their wares again.


What color is the sky in your world?

They sky changes shades from time to time...but through it all...my glass is always HALF FULL while to others (and it sounds like maybe to you)....its Half Empty instead and that is the real difference.

I cannot speak for all salespeople or the objections they face on the street from potential clients, but I can say that many of the salespeople i have met who tell me "it can't be sold" are the same people who will say in the next breath "and the format sucks anyway". How can you sell what you don't believe in yourself. Perhaps what is missing is a bit of confidence? And I realize that the pie is not what it once was with Ipods and such...but the fact is the CDT has managed to raise rates and keep on selling despite a decline in the number of persons who actually read a newspaper. How do you think they managed that? If they can do it....so can radio.

 

[ameyer]

I can say that many of the salespeople i have met who tell me "it can't be sold" are the same people who will say in the next breath "and the format sucks anyway".
[/quote]

Hey I think I know that guy!

 

[Ned Gimp]

Mr. Hilton,
"CTD has managed to raise rates and keep on selling."
Selling? the CDT is in deeper doo doo every day. Radio is in tough enough straights. Let's not compare it to newspaper. Sheesh!
That can-do spirit can only go so far. Salespeople don't blame formats, they blame managers.

 

[tsimpson]

[/quote]

The average listener also does not read this board.

Are you saying we shouldn't be allowed to criticize? Sorry, but I completely disagree with you.
[/quote]

I never would say nobody can criticize. You are right here. I was trying to point out the idea that radio is perceived as a mess sometimes is not warranted or outdated. I welcome the discourse. You are right the average listener does not come here, however the savvy ad buyer does. People is the biz do. The not so savvy ad buyer who thinks they know it all are empowered by gossip does. My thought was simple. The buyers tend to lump radio stations together. To f many buyers its TV, cable, newspaper and way on the bottom comes the confusion of radio. We are the "dern kids fighting on the playground"

You are right the average listener does not come to this forum, however ad buyers, radio people, all media checks it out.

 

[temp]

This is an industry-specific message board. Of course there are people in here reading who do not work in radio but not often at all. So if no one says anything negative, the occasional straggler in here will think radio is a perfect, problem-free industry?

If you can't vent in here, where can you vent? What I see in here are a lot of posts with good things to say, bad things to say, and general "Shop talk." Sounds like a nice open forum. The only posters I'd like to hush are the ones who post asking others to hush. If you hush posters who say anything you find even slightly left of the line, it will become pablum in here. Let everyone speak.

 

[shilton]

I can say that many of the salespeople i have met who tell me "it can't be sold" are the same people who will say in the next breath "and the format sucks anyway".

Hey I think I know that guy!
[/quote]
Come to think of it...you just might...but I will keep the personal jabs off this board. They know who they are LOL

 

[ameyer]

G101 tinkered with their CHR image somewhat to lean a tad more adult during the daytime

Just to clarify, we did not tinker with the CHR image at all! It is programmed to make it sound more adult during the day but if you listen we are just as CHR as 94.5 the only difference is we don't play the hardcore urban during the day...i.e Mims, Baby Boy, 50 Cent, Pretty Ricky...and we throw in a few older songs during the day as well for the upper end of the demo...If you program it right and listen to your audience you can build a strong sounding station, that serves everybody...no jab at you Steve but you have said several times to me and on this board that you have the ability to pick what was a hit and what will be, I think I have proven my point with this one, but still you were not listening to the audience. Thus we find ourselves at where we are now.

Case in point...I have had several and Reggie has had several phone calls about the new Avril Lavigne song, I listened to them but they were only saying it was annoying so I was letting it go cause it is Number 7 on Mediabase and the #1 most requested song on Open House Party...BUT upon further research it is not testing well at all. Anyone over the age of 18 is not responding to the song, the 12-18 year olds are but nobody else is, so after listening to the audience and looking at the research I have decided to back off the daytime spins so that we are serving the audience with what they want.

This is why Forever has been so succesful...maybe they have a high turnover rate in sales...name me one station that doesn't? Maybe they have bad managment skills, maybe they don't...we hear from people on this board and usually they are airing a grudge, most of the time that means they are mad and we are only hearing one side of the converstaion. Although the one thing they have been able to accomplish is constiency in the ratings, they have moved QWK what 3 times now, and still it gets outstanding ratings for a rock station...WHY? Cause they listen to what their listners want and because of that their fanbase has followed them through the frequency changes. The one thing I will say is the fall of Hot 103, may have been an off the hip call, but they did what they felt they had to do. For whatever reason that may have been.

The point is one person's gut feeling about something is not programming it is moronic...It is not the way to program and it sure as hell is not the way to succeed in the ratings...get everybody on the same page and you will succeed, The actual owners of Forever don't sit down with the PD's and MD's each week at each station and say here is what we are going to do music wise and programming wise, they depend on the people they hire to do that and those people do it well, thus leading to ratings and money...so beat up all you want the fact of the matter is even before the dust settled they had their crap together...

Ok now I am done writing my novel

 

[shilton]

2 things.

#1....what the??? did I do to you AJ? We have a difference in philosophies is all. And that's why I left...so you can program the station without my interferrence since we seem to have differing views on the direction of the format. And please try not to get so offended at the comment that you "tinkered" with the image of the station. We both got the same emails and perhaps the wording was not totally correct, but at one point, it was even referred to as a "format switch" which you may recall is what set me off in the first place causing me to explore options with the competition. I am only calling it what upper level management did at the time.

#2...that Avril Lavigne song that no one likes debuted at #20 on VH1's weekend contdown this week and last I checked, the teeney boppers aren't watching VH1. I also point out that the song is faring very well for Avril in Billboard's Hot 100 chart (her second debut at #1 in as many albums)

In closing...a general comment to all. I have seen CHR's time and time again try to "pick the hits" and define what their audience wants and in most cases, it fails miserably. Case in point, when Beaver dropped CHR a few years back in favor of a more "adult lean", they lost the core of their audience. I went through the same process at the old B103 more times than I care to count and in each case after a book or 2, we reserved course and went back to following the charts. Now take Hot 103 which DID play the hits with no regards to dayparting or restrictions, etc. and they had some very impressive ratings didn't they?

I am not speaking off the cuff on this one...its a simple proven fact. Play the hits and you will weather the storms. Start deciding what people do and don't wanna hear and that is usually not a good thing. And to clarify, when I speak of my ability to pick the hits, I mean from doing this for a while, when I hear a song for the first time, I usually have an inkling if it will chart well, or will not and sometimes I am incorrect. however, many more times than not...my gut instinct proves me right. However, I have never believed in a market this size trying to "break the hits"...let that to the major makets and just follow what is charting and you will do fine.

Anyway...that's my reply. Its not meant to be a jab to anyone in particular, but I felt that AJ's response was kind of one sided and I was not aware until I read his post that there seems to be so much negativity toward me either. And for that matter, not sure why there should be. He had his opinions..I had mine. I left...he got to do exactly what he wanted to do with his station. He is in a happier place without my involvement in the station and I am in a happy place at the "B" where it seems my philosophies meld better with their own theories on the excution of the format. So sorta sounds to me like we both come out winners in this deal.

 

[Becker]

Ameyer's post didn't read as hostile to me. To anyone. It all read as fair-minded and well thought out.

 

[shilton]

Ameyer's post didn't read as hostile to me. To anyone. It all read as fair-minded and well thought out.

I guess where I get at a feeling of hostility is where he states that this is "what brings us to where we are now" as if there is some huge drift between the two of us that is beyond repair. Heck, I still talk to the guy and I felt we get along pretty good.

I do find it just a tad amusing how upset he seems to get when I call it "tinkering with the format" when that is precisely what it was. Fact is someone said that the station was not meeting the goals they had set forth and to make sure it did, they were going to slightly refocus the station. I didn't make that up and its not a slam at him....that is what it was called and that is what it was. The music was altered (even if ever so slightly) to meet certain goals as was laid out by management. It just happens that my own philosophies did not line up with those ideas, so I did the proper thing...I left. End of story...I am not trying to insult by saying they altered the station. They did what they felt was right and that is that.

As for who will see the payout in the ratings remains to be seen....heck both of our stations could tank miserably. Who knows. its always a crapshoot in Happy Valley when it comes to predicting the outcome of the "book" And for all we know, by then there may not even be a book at all. Lotsa rumors floating around that no one is gonna subscribe and then what would we use as a measure of our successes or failures? We'd have to rely on gut instincts I suppose ;D

 

[ameyer]

Thank you Becker, Steve the post was not meant to be a jab to you...I just pointed out what you had said several times and that we did NOT tinker with the format...For the record I got the same email obviously you were not reading the ones I was sending back as I was not at all for a format change at all, we had many discussions before we did what we did, and I remember you focusing on the FORMAT CHANGE email, which never came into play after that email...You were so upset that we were discussing altering the music which came down to just taking the urban out of the day that you were blinded as to what we were doing. As soon as you saw the urban come off the list and a little bit of old stuff get added in you gave up. Might I add with that little tweak we have had many compliments about how nice the music sounds during the day. Nothing was ever meant as a jab, That is water under the bridge though...

You said let the major markets break the new music, that is what we do...except that when you look at the research...if the major markets are having a problem with it then why should it be played...my point in case is Avril Lavigne is not testing well...with the upper demo...VH1 does cater to teens now or they would not be playing 50 cent and Mims and R. Kelly. Billboard goes by what is selling, ummm who buys the most CD's ummmm the lower end of the demo. Sure it is charting well on the charts because of the lower end, Rich Myers president of mediabase flat out said the song is not testing well in the 18 and over demos...18-24 has a postive read get above 24 and the song is flat out annoying...Keep Holding On tested better with the upper end and the lower end. Again it is not a jab, just pointing out what the research shows.

As for 103 ratings they never took a huge hit, they averaged about a 6.5 in all 3 books of tinkering.Though if you want to take my stating my opinion on the board as to why I think Forever is doing well as a personal attack then feel free...I will be more than happy to tell you some other things I think too. For God's Sake Steve don't bust a vein I was expressing my thoughts and clarifying a statement you made...

I thought it was you who said we should be able to express what we think if we can back it up, you agreed with me, well I backed it up and you took it as an attack, so maybe I should ask you what the ????

 

[soloman]

ameyer---- you are not being attacked, only corrected. Forever gets little credit for having things "together'. Their current line-up is largely a bunch of purchased successes, BUS, RSC, QWK, designed and built by others, and now drifting south. Hot was abandoned. Lite lost momentum. Froggy is the only clear success.

 

[ameyer]

never said I was being attacked...Steve took it as a personal attack...I'm really getting tired of having to explain over and over again so just go back and reread the posts...