Forget Causi,St John and Lee. Bring back Brown,Jay,Ingram,Harry,Brucie,Nite&Reed

[prescott]

WE NEED THE OLD DJS BACK!!

 

[UncleBozzle]

Re: Forget Causi,St John and Lee. Bring back Brown,Jay,Ingram,Harry,Brucie,Nite&Reed

It's time for everyone to look ahead and not back. Maybe the old jocks don't want to come back? Why can't people just understand that this time around is different? I happen to be a country fan, but if WYNY were to come back I would not expect all the original disc jockies to be on it....why can't the oldies listeners be the same? There comes a time to let go and move forward.

 

[OldiesCat]

Re: Forget Causi,St John and Lee. Bring back Brown,Jay,Ingram,Harry,Brucie,Nite&Reed

It's time for everyone to look ahead and not back. Maybe the old jocks don't want to come back? Why can't people just understand that this time around is different? I happen to be a country fan, but if WYNY were to come back I would not expect all the original disc jockies to be on it....why can't the oldies listeners be the same? There comes a time to let go and move forward.

I'm afraid it's not Oldies LISTENERS crying and whining. It's radio board hacks protesting the most about no 72 year-old DJs and lack of 50s music. Almost all New York radio listeners who missed CBS-FM when it changed format 2 years ago are deeply appreciative and satisfied with the version of WCBS-FM that's now on.

 

[UncleBozzle]

Re: Forget Causi,St John and Lee. Bring back Brown,Jay,Ingram,Harry,Brucie,Nite&Reed

To those radio board geaks I say subscribe to XM/Sirius. You can hear your legendary jocks on those outlets. This current lineup makes total sense and consists of folks that are legends for the 30-45 year old crowd. Bravo to CBS for this.

 

[neo11]

Re: Forget Causi,St John and Lee. Bring back Brown,Jay,Ingram,Harry,Brucie,Nite&

The whining knows no boundaries. Dan Ingram is 72 years old, for example. For christs sake, has it occurred to anyone of you "oldies fans" that maybe some of those jocks don't want to come back? That they may be happy just being retired or making guest appearances here and there or doing other gigs somewhere else? Has it occurred to you that CBS-FM, no more than Jack or any other station, is not your own personal jukebox? Has it occurred to you that this is a business? Has it occurred to you that it's 2007, not 1977, and that these jocks ain't gonna live forever?

The world is moving on. It's a pretty sad sight to see people increasingly alienate themselves from today's reality only to remain in an idealized fantasy world of a bygone day.

 

[UncleBozzle]

Re: Forget Causi,St John and Lee. Bring back Brown,Jay,Ingram,Harry,Brucie,Nite&Reed

Neo sums it up well. The baton has been passed to a younger generation of jocks, much as managers and execs hand it over to younger folks in their business. I'd imagine that many of the original CBS-FM jocks are happy retired, and don't wish to participate in the daily grind.

 

[John Waywoods]

Re: Forget Causi,St John and Lee. Bring back Brown,Jay,Ingram,Harry,Brucie,Nite&Reed

I want Wolfman Jack! Unbury him now and connect him to a 220v line.

 

[jamjimaria]

Re: Forget Causi,St John and Lee. Bring back Brown,Jay,Ingram,Harry,Brucie,Nite&Reed

Neo sums it up well. The baton has been passed to a younger generation of jocks, much as managers and execs hand it over to younger folks in their business. I'd imagine that many of the original CBS-FM jocks are happy retired, and don't wish to participate in the daily grind.

If I can be allowed my 2 cents worth, let me take this one step further. I think this is where the radio business has erred. I don't think that it is Harry Harrison, Dan Ingram, etc. specifically that everybody misses (okay some people want the one and only Harry & Dan et all...) but it is what they represent. They represent a time in radio in which only the best "talent" or "personalities" where hired for the the N.Y. market. Unfortaunately that changed around 1978 when Bob Pittman introduced the "New WNBC" to N.Y. We were basically told that it was wrong to listen to D.J.s that put too much of themselves into radio. It was the music that counted. The jocks on the "NEW WNBC" would only give the name of the song, give the time and the temp. No personality allowed. In the ensuing years radio has not taken the time and effort to develop "New" talent. All that is left of the glory years of radio, is the Harry Harrison's, Ron Lundy's, Dan Ingrams, Cousin Brucie's, etc. that Bob Pittman assured us were ruining radio, and thus not what we wanted to hear. So when people are clamoring for these legends to return to radio it is partly due to missing these legendary personalities, but also partly because they are the last personalities that people remember before personalities were taken away from us. Mr. Pittman and programmers since his time keep reinforcing non personality radio, thus JACK. Is it now wonder that the "New WNBC" was no more of a success than the old WNBC and ratings did not improve until Howard Stern arrived and Imus returned? Now I know you are going to say that Imus is old and needs to be put out to pasture and all that, but my point is that he, Howard, and Soupy Sales brought personality back and with that came the ratings. Besides Imus wasn't old and washed up back in 1980 when they brought him up. And from what I understand the jocks on the NEW WNBC did prosper in other markets where they were allowed to be themselves instead of a lead in to the automation and voictracking that we are left with today.

My point is that people want personality and talent on the radio and if properly developed it does not have to specifically have to be Harry, Ron, Dan & Brucie. I think one of the best examples is Dan Taylor. He by no means is 72 years old, but was allowed to develop his talent at a young age, thus he has been around N.Y. radio for a few decades and now is working the most important shift on CBS-FM. If more programmers shared the philosophy that programmers had when letting Dan Taylor develop himself during the hey day of the above mentioned legends, it would not be so much the legends that EVERYBODY is clamoring for (of course some people will always want to hear Harry, Ron, Dan, Brucie specfically) but they would be happy to go foward (as everybody seems to say we should do with this version of CBS-FM) with other talents such as Taylor an a new breed. N.Y. is desperate for talent/personalities, but no programmers want to allow them to develop.

And, it is not just N. Y. radio that thrives on personality radio. I have relocated to Southern New England and one of Boston's top rated shows is "Loren & Wally) on WROR, a Classic Hits station. They have been around for 26 years because they entertain, not just give the time and temp. Also they have added Paul Perry to their roster, while he is a bit younger than Loren & Wally he is a personality and the listeners love him, his show is not boring and may well be groomed to succeed Loren & Wally as he has the morning drive experience in both the Boston and Providence markets. Being in Southern New England I also am privy to Providence radio which used to have some really good stations themselves. But since the turn of the decade these stations have become more automated and voicetracked and in turn have lost a lot of their appeal. Just check out the Providence boards if you don't believe me.

Okay, I said I was only going to give you my 2 cents worth, but I did become more wordy than I originally intended, but I am just so passionate with this. For the record, IMHO the new CBS-FM is not perfect (I am enjoying the special weekend that "The Breeze" 107.1 is doing this weekend and wish CBS-FM would be more like that) I am a realist and know that is not going to happen, I am happy to listen to the stream of CBS-FM and happy that we at least have the station back in some form. I am willing to give them time to make the station even better but most of all, I am happy that they have relieved us of JACK.

Thank you for allowing me to vent.

 

[radiosgreatest1]

Re: Forget Causi,St John and Lee. Bring back Brown,Jay,Ingram,Harry,Brucie,Nite&

It's time for everyone to look ahead and not back. Maybe the old jocks don't want to come back? Why can't people just understand that this time around is different? I happen to be a country fan, but if WYNY were to come back I would not expect all the original disc jockies to be on it....why can't the oldies listeners be the same? There comes a time to let go and move forward.

I'm afraid it's not Oldies LISTENERS crying and whining. It's radio board hacks protesting the most about no 72 year-old DJs and lack of 50s music. Almost all New York radio listeners who missed CBS-FM when it changed format 2 years ago are deeply appreciative and satisfied with the version of WCBS-FM that's now on.

I dont think so if u check out wcbsfm.com you will find out otherwise...

 

[OldiesCat]

Re: Forget Causi,St John and Lee. Bring back Brown,Jay,Ingram,Harry,Brucie,Nite&

I dont think so if u check out wcbsfm.com you will find out otherwise...

Find out what "otherwise"?

 

[neo11]

Re: Forget Causi,St John and Lee. Bring back Brown,Jay,Ingram,Harry,Brucie,Nite&

Neo sums it up well. The baton has been passed to a younger generation of jocks, much as managers and execs hand it over to younger folks in their business. I'd imagine that many of the original CBS-FM jocks are happy retired, and don't wish to participate in the daily grind.

If I can be allowed my 2 cents worth, let me take this one step further. I think this is where the radio business has erred. I don't think that it is Harry Harrison, Dan Ingram, etc. specifically that everybody misses (okay some people want the one and only Harry & Dan et all...) but it is what they represent. They represent a time in radio in which only the best "talent" or "personalities" where hired for the the N.Y. market. Unfortaunately that changed around 1978 when Bob Pittman introduced the "New WNBC" to N.Y. We were basically told that it was wrong to listen to D.J.s that put too much of themselves into radio. It was the music that counted. The jocks on the "NEW WNBC" would only give the name of the song, give the time and the temp. No personality allowed. In the ensuing years radio has not taken the time and effort to develop "New" talent. All that is left of the glory years of radio, is the Harry Harrison's, Ron Lundy's, Dan Ingrams, Cousin Brucie's, etc. that Bob Pittman assured us were ruining radio, and thus not what we wanted to hear. So when people are clamoring for these legends to return to radio it is partly due to missing these legendary personalities, but also partly because they are the last personalities that people remember before personalities were taken away from us. Mr. Pittman and programmers since his time keep reinforcing non personality radio, thus JACK. Is it now wonder that the "New WNBC" was no more of a success than the old WNBC and ratings did not improve until Howard Stern arrived and Imus returned? Now I know you are going to say that Imus is old and needs to be put out to pasture and all that, but my point is that he, Howard, and Soupy Sales brought personality back and with that came the ratings. Besides Imus wasn't old and washed up back in 1980 when they brought him up. And from what I understand the jocks on the NEW WNBC did prosper in other markets where they were allowed to be themselves instead of a lead in to the automation and voictracking that we are left with today.

My point is that people want personality and talent on the radio and if properly developed it does not have to specifically have to be Harry, Ron, Dan & Brucie. I think one of the best examples is Dan Taylor. He by no means is 72 years old, but was allowed to develop his talent at a young age, thus he has been around N.Y. radio for a few decades and now is working the most important shift on CBS-FM. If more programmers shared the philosophy that programmers had when letting Dan Taylor develop himself during the hey day of the above mentioned legends, it would not be so much the legends that EVERYBODY is clamoring for (of course some people will always want to hear Harry, Ron, Dan, Brucie specfically) but they would be happy to go foward (as everybody seems to say we should do with this version of CBS-FM) with other talents such as Taylor an a new breed. N.Y. is desperate for talent/personalities, but no programmers want to allow them to develop.

And, it is not just N. Y. radio that thrives on personality radio. I have relocated to Southern New England and one of Boston's top rated shows is "Loren & Wally) on WROR, a Classic Hits station. They have been around for 26 years because they entertain, not just give the time and temp. Also they have added Paul Perry to their roster, while he is a bit younger than Loren & Wally he is a personality and the listeners love him, his show is not boring and may well be groomed to succeed Loren & Wally as he has the morning drive experience in both the Boston and Providence markets. Being in Southern New England I also am privy to Providence radio which used to have some really good stations themselves. But since the turn of the decade these stations have become more automated and voicetracked and in turn have lost a lot of their appeal. Just check out the Providence boards if you don't believe me.

Okay, I said I was only going to give you my 2 cents worth, but I did become more wordy than I originally intended, but I am just so passionate with this. For the record, IMHO the new CBS-FM is not perfect (I am enjoying the special weekend that "The Breeze" 107.1 is doing this weekend and wish CBS-FM would be more like that) I am a realist and know that is not going to happen, I am happy to listen to the stream of CBS-FM and happy that we at least have the station back in some form. I am willing to give them time to make the station even better but most of all, I am happy that they have relieved us of JACK.

Thank you for allowing me to vent.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. The old jocks that have been mentioned are symbols of an era where live radio was the norm, when listeners associated with the DJ's as much as they associated with the music on their favorite stations. I also can't stand to hear the obviously scripted, sugary sweet liner card readers on stations like Lite FM and now *especially* on Fresh 102.7. I actually thought that the pre-recorded Jack liners were a lot more entertaining to listen to and represented far more creative thought than anything you'll hear from stations who have turned their live jocks into liner-card readers.

That said, you can't say that the current jocks on CBS-FM represent that problem in radio. Bill Lee, Joe Causi, Pat St. John, etc. are talented jocks, who have had a long career in NYC and other major markets, and are certainly not liner-card readers. Like them or hate them, they're not what is wrong with radio. The sense I'm getting from some listeners is they not only wanted CBS-FM to return, but wanted it back exactly as it was, say, 15 or 20 years ago, and just cannot live with themselves if that is not the case. It's not like CBS-FM has been turned into a Jack or a Fresh except with older music. It's a station with a lot more personality than most other commercial stations nowadays, but it seems that since those jocks aren't the same ones that graced CBS-FM's microphones 20 years ago, they are unacceptable to many so-called oldies fans here.

If the station were automated, like K-Rock has been, or had pre-recorded liners like Jack, or sugary sweet liner-card readers like Fresh, then I'd see a reason to complain, but not when there's established, talented jocks on the station from its first day back on the air; jocks who have proven track records in NYC radio, all because some listeners can't let go of the past and want their favorite 80 year old jocks to *continue* to grace the airwaves. Then, you're just coming off as someone who is both greedy and out of touch with the present.

Oh, and a final thing...so many people are "relieved" that Jack is no longer on the air. But I sense that it's mostly a response to it having been the station that replaced CBS-FM in the first place. Again, I find that to be an immature reaction. Would people have felt this negatively about Jack if it had gone on, say, 92.3 or 102.7? If the negativity is just a result of the station running jockless, then where's the outcry towards K-Rock, which has had zero live voices outside of morning drive?

 

[mcmannors]

Re: Forget Causi,St John and Lee. Bring back Brown,Jay,Ingram,Harry,Brucie,Nite&Reed

Unfortaunately that changed around 1978 when Bob Pittman introduced the "New WNBC" to N.Y. We were basically told that it was wrong to listen to D.J.s that put too much of themselves into radio. It was the music that counted. The jocks on the "NEW WNBC" would only give the name of the song, give the time and the temp. No personality allowed. In the ensuing years radio has not taken the time and effort to develop "New" talent. All that is left of the glory years of radio, is the Harry Harrison's, Ron Lundy's, Dan Ingrams, Cousin Brucie's, etc. that Bob Pittman assured us were ruining radio, and thus not what we wanted to hear. So when people are clamoring for these legends to return to radio it is partly due to missing these legendary personalities, but also partly because they are the last personalities that people remember before personalities were taken away from us. Mr. Pittman and programmers since his time keep reinforcing non personality radio, thus JACK. Is it now wonder that the "New WNBC" was no more of a success than the old WNBC and ratings did not improve until Howard Stern arrived and Imus returned? Now I know you are going to say that Imus is old and needs to be put out to pasture and all that, but my point is that he, Howard, and Soupy Sales brought personality back and with that came the ratings. Besides Imus wasn't old and washed up back in 1980 when they brought him up. And from what I understand the jocks on the NEW WNBC did prosper in other markets where they were allowed to be themselves instead of a lead in to the automation and voictracking that we are left with today.

Unfortunately, justice did not prevail and Mr. Pittman went on to become an ultra-successful COO with AOL Time Warner. ???

 

[OldiesCat]

Re: Forget Causi,St John and Lee. Bring back Brown,Jay,Ingram,Harry,Brucie,Nite&

Oh, and a final thing...so many people are "relieved" that Jack is no longer on the air. But I sense that it's mostly a response to it having been the station that replaced CBS-FM in the first place. Again, I find that to be an immature reaction. Would people have felt this negatively about Jack if it had gone on, say, 92.3 or 102.7? If the negativity is just a result of the station running jockless, then where's the outcry towards K-Rock, which has had zero live voices outside of morning drive?

"Jack" had problems on several fronts, not the least of which was the station it replaced. Mostly radio geeks protested the jockless approach, feeling that if the trend caught on nationwide, those who were frankly the most mediocre and insecure saw their radio careers disappearing in front of their very eyes. Jocks who were dedicated, talented and secure with themselves never made a peep of the fact that Jacks are jockless.

I think if Jack had gone on 102.7, it would have been viewed as a big YAWN and "here's another flavour-of-the-day format on 102.7". Putting it on the CBS-FM frequency got them major publicity, mostly negative. CBS really botched the whole Jack sign-on; they could have saved face in a month or so after that by bringing Oldies back but on another frequency, 92.3 making the most sense. At the time, I'd have said 102.7 but you have to admit that Fresh has gotten off to a nice start, with that frequency's best 25-54 numbers in years. Whether it will last is another discussion.

 

[jamjimaria]

Re: Forget Causi,St John and Lee. Bring back Brown,Jay,Ingram,Harry,Brucie,Nite&

Neo 11, Perhaps you misunderstood what I meant. I did not mean to imply that Bill Lee, Causi, and Pat St. John were what is wrong with radio today. They are talented personalities with much N.Y. experience and I applaud CBS-FM for bringing them back. I just believe that if there were more talented PERSONALITIES around these days there would be less outcry for Harry Harrison, Dan Ingram, etc. Or perhaps I am reading it all wrong and you are correct, people just expected CBS-FM to come back as you said as it was 15-20 years ago. Nobody is a bigger Dan Ingram fan than I am, but I am enough of a realist to realize that his best days are behind him. Same goes for Harry & Cousin Brucie. For CBS to have just picked up where they left off is unrealistic. Besides Ingram had already left the station under bad circumstances, Harry had already retired as did Ron Lundy. Dan Daniel was only working sporadically, so the only "regular" that was there at the end was Cousin Brucie. Perhaps he will return when his contract with Sirius expires, but he is also in his 70's and probably would only be available for weekend or specialty shows.

Again, to reiterate, I was not degrading Lee, Causi, or St. John, so thank you for allowing me to clear up any confusion my previous post may have created. I am delighted that CBS was able to bring back Bob Shannon & Dan Taylor which represent some continuity from the former CBS-FM. Lee, Causi and St. John compliment them very well. That being said, they are not "new talent" either. What happens as they start ageing? I guess in a long winded way I am trying to say that once they retire (if I am correct Bob Shannon is either 60 or close to it as well) we have not developed enough talent/personalites to replace THEM. Perhaps I am worrying too much about about the future. Let live for today and enjoy CBS-FM as it is now and hope some programmer will have the sense to replace these new CBS legends when the time comes.

As far as your opinion that many people were turned off by JACK because it just happened to be the format that replaced CBS-FM you may be right. As I stated in my previous post I no longer live in New York so when CBS flipped to JACK I did not bother to listen to the stream, I just concentrated on listening to oldies and classic rock stations in the Providence & Boston markets without taking the time to think if there would have been the same outcry if it had replaced K-Rock or whatever format WNEW was presenting at the time. Now that I think of it, you are probably correct that without the stigma of replacing CBS there may not have been as much of an outcry and JACK may have had more success.

Again, thank you for allowing me to clarify myself.