FORMAT CHANGE AT KIKK-AM 650 ?????

[OldChicago]

Hmmmmm......
I noticed this morning that 650-AM is now calling itself "CNN RADIO 650" and
is simucasting the audio from CNN Headline News Cable TV. Howard Stern is still there, but did not start until 7am. Thought they were a comedy station. Do
they have a website? When did this happen?


Old Chicago<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by OldChicago on 06/07/05 12:03 PM.</FONT></P>

 

[ChuckTiller]

It has been calling itself that since last month.

 

[JarodF]

> Hmmmmm......
> I noticed this morning that 650-AM is now calling itself
> "CNN RADIO 650" and
> is simucasting the audio from CNN Headline News Cable TV.

It's "CNN 650 Radio News, immediately following the Howard Stern Show." (That's been ingrained in my head!)

> Howard Stern is still there, but did not start until 7am.

They've always started Howard at 7am.

> Thought they were a comedy station. Do
> they have a website?

http://www.kikk.com There's not much there though.

> When did this happen?

About a month or so ago.

 

[ErectDis]

> Hmmmmm......
> I noticed this morning that 650-AM is now calling itself
> "CNN RADIO 650" and
> is simucasting the audio from CNN Headline News Cable TV.
> Howard Stern is still there, but did not start until 7am.
> Thought they were a comedy station. Do
> they have a website? When did this happen?
>
>
> Old Chicago
>




Stern has always started at 7am do to the daytime power up.

 

[Mike_O]

> It has been calling itself that since last month.
>
Should anything be read into the fact that Infinity is running CNN-H after Stern or is this just inexpensive filler until Infinity dumps KIKK 650? I know that Infinity has cut back on the number of stations it plans to divest itself of, but 650 fits 3 out 4 of the criteria Infinity had for selling a station. The station is low power, check; the station is daytime, check; the station is not going to be an asset to Infinity, check; the station is small or medium market, No.

If Infinity is looking for an AM station, there are several possibilites. KGOL has been working on the physical plant of KGOL 1180 which does run 50kW days and a 1kw nights, but Entravision has an application in for 3kW nights, although in all honesty no real improvement over the 1kW they are running now.

KYST 920 Texas City is on the market, but reportedly overpriced. The station does a good job of covering Houston metro daytime, but really struggles to get a good signal north of the 10 Freeway corridor at night.

KNUZ 1090 way over priced and not worth the gas to see it. Station is not upgradable, basically a 650 with really bad coveage.

KILE 1560 since I have never heard any different, the first sale fell through. If somehow RAFTT Corp gets the 50kw daytime site built by August 28th of this year they will be half way home. I haven't been in Brazoria County to see if their six daytime towers are going up. They reapplied for nights, 5kW this time, maybe one of these tries.

Once KYND 1520 has their nighttime authorization on the air I wouldn't be surprised to see the owner to put the station on the market. Somehow I just don't see the 260 watts at night covering much and the NIF map doesn't either.

Just in case Infinity wanted to go into the News business in Houston that's what I've heard is out there. KGOL looks like the best of the lot.

Mike O

 

[ChuckTiller]

Mike. I'm sorry, but I disagree. KGOL is NOT a possibility. That power problem will not go away. It would take a lot of money to dump into it. That is not going to happen.

Everyone of those stations and the reasons you gave is your answer. NOT WORTH IT!

Perhaps only one station that has a possibilty of an upgrade is KNTH. However, the only way it can happen is that Salem buys KOPY, Alice and turn it OFF, or downgrade it so KNTH's signal could be floated down the coast similar to KILT's and KTRH's patterns.

Similarly, ABC could buy 1590 in Sinton and turn it off and do something to KMIC's signal. Thats not going to happen. The mouse is sitting there and making money. No staffing problems.

Now, repeat after me: "KGOL is not going to happen. I must forget about KGOL. All of my posts about KGOL are futile."

If I am wrong then I will apologize and buy YOU that $30 bottle of booze.

 

[Mike_O]

> Mike. I'm sorry, but I disagree. KGOL is NOT a possibility.
> That power problem will not go away. It would take a lot of
> money to dump into it. That is not going to happen.
>
> Everyone of those stations and the reasons you gave is your
> answer. NOT WORTH IT!
>
> Perhaps only one station that has a possibilty of an upgrade
> is KNTH. However, the only way it can happen is that Salem
> buys KOPY, Alice and turn it OFF, or downgrade it so KNTH's
> signal could be floated down the coast similar to KILT's and
> KTRH's patterns.
>
> Similarly, ABC could buy 1590 in Sinton and turn it off and
> do something to KMIC's signal. Thats not going to happen.
> The mouse is sitting there and making money. No staffing
> problems.
>
> Now, repeat after me: "KGOL is not going to happen. I must
> forget about KGOL. All of my posts about KGOL are futile."
>
> If I am wrong then I will apologize and buy YOU that $30
> bottle of booze.
>
Ok Chuck, "KGOL is not going to happen. I must forget about KGOL. All of my posts about KGOL are futile." It is a shame though, there are few stations that can be upgraded in Houston on AM. "KGOL is not going to happen. I must forget about KGOL. All of my posts about KGOL are futile." There I feel better already, disappointed but better. "KGOL is not going to happen. I must forget about KGOL, All of my posts about KGOL are futile." Eyes roll into head and neck falls back.

If you are wrong, and I wish that you would be in this case, you have much more knowledge about what is going on than I do and are likely 99.9% correct. "KGOL is not going to happen. I must forget about KGOL. All of my posts about KGOL are futile." Takes deep breath and accepts reality.

Chuck I don't drink, so if that 0.1% should happen donate the money to your favorite charity. It would be better spent that way. "KGOL is not going to happen. I must forget about KGOL. All of my posts about KGOL are futile."

From what I have read about ABC/Disney, I get the impression that they do not value their radio networks very much. All-Access and FMQB (IIRC) both had short blurbs about ABC/Disney and the radio networks. Not sure if they plan on making it a separate company or just get out of the radio business all together? Chuck you said that Radio Disney makes money for ABC/Disney, do you mean the stations themselves are a source of profit? I don't listen very often, although since KMIC is similar in format to the Top 40 radio of the 50's through 70's, I tune in for that reason and they do play some music that I like. My feeling was that Radio Disney does not make money for ABC/Disney in most likely any market, but where else can you have a 24/7 commercial for an entertainment empire? Plus all the Disney items that are for sale that every child MUST HAVE, at least according to Radio Disney. I don't know about their ESPN radio network, if that is a profit center for them or not. ABC/Disney owns 80% of ESPN.

"KGOL is not going to happen. I must forget about KGOL. All of my posts about KGOL are futile." I could really expand that to "I must forget about any new stations in Houston or any upgrades of any stations in Houston. It is just wishful thinking and not possible. Be realistic." I will do them both together because from here on out the only thing we will see are format changes.

"KGOL is not going to happen. I must forget about KGOL. All of my posts about KGOL are futile." "I must forget about any new stations or upgrades of any stations in Houston. It is just wishful thinking and not possible. Be realistic."

Thanks Chuck.

Mike O<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by Mike_O on 06/08/05 10:27 PM.</FONT></P>

 

[houstonradiogeek]

Um...

What about the expanded band?

Psst. Infinity, Bonneville, ABC, Cox even! There are a few "virgin" kilohertz of spectrum above 1600 here in Houston! Come and get 'em!

>
> "KGOL is not going to happen. I must forget about KGOL.
> All of my posts about KGOL are futile." "I must forget about
> any new stations or upgrades of any stations in Houston. It
> is just wishful thinking and not possible. Be realistic."

"Resistance is Futile. You will be assimilated. All your base are belong to us!"<P ID="signature">______________
I listen to what I like.
Ratings be Damned.</P>

 

[Tonytoga]

> Mike. I'm sorry, but I disagree. KGOL is NOT a possibility.
> That power problem will not go away. It would take a lot of
> money to dump into it. That is not going to happen.
>
> Everyone of those stations and the reasons you gave is your
> answer. NOT WORTH IT!
>
> Perhaps only one station that has a possibilty of an upgrade
> is KNTH. However, the only way it can happen is that Salem
> buys KOPY, Alice and turn it OFF, or downgrade it so KNTH's
> signal could be floated down the coast similar to KILT's and
> KTRH's patterns.
>
> Similarly, ABC could buy 1590 in Sinton and turn it off and
> do something to KMIC's signal. Thats not going to happen.
> The mouse is sitting there and making money. No staffing
> problems.
>
> Now, repeat after me: "KGOL is not going to happen. I must
> forget about KGOL. All of my posts about KGOL are futile."
>
> If I am wrong then I will apologize and buy YOU that $30
> bottle of booze.
>
Perhaps another point of view or two gentlemen...................

First, the KOPY - Alice "fix" for KNTH is and has for some time been: DEAD. It died when Salem allowed first KCHN (1050 kHZ, Brookshire) and then KNUZ (1090 kHz, Katy) to tuck transmitter sites into that extremely deep null (down to 30 watts of signal) on the 230 degree radial of their daytime pattern. The 5 mV/m of KCHN is right on top of KNTH's 5 mV/m and (supposing Roy Henderson can get past all the petitions to deny [those Bellville folks don't seem to think much of Mr. Henderson] and get a CP) the 5 mV/m of KNUZ will do the same once it is moved. KNTH could have drastically improved itself by eliminating KOPY a number of years ago but Salem was in deep rim sleep (could hear the snoring from here)and allowed the opportunity to pass it by. Even if KOPY went away, KNTH is blocked by KCHN and KNUZ.

Next, the KGOL possibility. KGOL's problem is simply this: THE TRANSMITTER SITE IS IN THE WRONG PLACE. KGOL is way too far into the horrible conductivity for any technical "fix" (different pattern, etc.) to make make much difference in its Houston signal. You simply can't change conductivity. Hint for those who don't know: Conductivity is the resistance offered by the geology of the earth's surface you're trying to push an AM signal across. Excellent conductivity can make an old Class IV have the coverage you'd expect from a 1-A clear (example: KTEM - 1kW on 1400 kHz in Temple) while horrible conductivity can make a 1-A Clear have the coverage of a an old dogged out Class IV (example: WTIC - 50kW Class 1-B on 1080 kHz in Hartford, Conn. They don't call it the Granite State for nuthin').

Houston is an odd market with terrible conductivity on the north side (anywhere you see a pine tree growing native, you're looking at crappy conductivity) which begins to improve as you get south of IAH and really starts improving as you get south of I-10. By the time you get to Angleton on the south side, it's some of the best inland conductivity in the nation. KGOL's transmitter site would need to be moved a very long way to "fix" its conductivity problems.

Could KGOL be improved by moving its transmitter site? Well, remember that KGOL once had a CP (in the mid 90's) for 8.0 kW, Non-directional with a transmitter site in Pasadena but they allowed the CP to expire without building it. The improved conductivity between Cut-N-Shoot to Pasadena along with the nearer proximity to the market would have more than made up for the decrease in power from 50 kW to 8 kW. It's a shame they didn't do it. (Why not pick up a cheap bottle of Maddog 20/20 and send it to Mike as a consolation prize?)

As for some of the others: Texas City (920 kHz) had some potential for improvement but that was ruined by the arrival of KREH (900 kHz) in Pecan Grove. KRTX in Richmond/Rosenberg (980 kHz) could improve it's daytime but that would take the elimination of KZZB (990 kHz) in Beaumont. KZZB is owned by Darrell Martin and to my knowledge, he has never sold anything......he only buys. There are other examples but you get the drift.

The intriguing part of all this is.........well, this:

Houston is unique among the top 10 metros in that, until now, it has had only one 50 kW AM serving it (remember, KGOL doesn't count cuz its all messed up by that no good conductivity thing). No one I've talked to has ever seemed to know why it worked out that way back in the 1930's but if you look at the other top ten markets, you'll see as many as NINE 50 kW AM's. Hell, there are four 50 kW operations in San Antonio! It makes sense that another 50 kW here could make a major player sit up and take a shot at a format here.

On the possibilities side: There are two real potentials for AM improvements in Houston. KXYZ (1320 kHz) looks like it could do at least 25 kW daytime, perhaps as much as 50 kW depending on their selection of a transmitter site (the night would probably have to remain at 5 kW from its current site). And, Arthur Liu has shown an taste for improving AM's he has acquired. However, Mr. Liu's format of choice is Chinese and right now he's got his hands full with improvements to stations acquired in L.A., San Fransisco and up in the northeast, places with much greater concentrations of his demographic than Houston. There is also the factor that Liu paid an average of $13-million per AM station in the Radio Unica acquisition. What would he think an improved KXYZ would be worth? Nevertheless, it's a station to keep your improvement eye on.

Which brings us to KILE-1560 kHz (Bellaire). Though the end of their CP is looming, word is that all six of the new towers are up and that the transmission lines/ground system are going in now with transmitter and phasor due for delivery in the next several weeks. It appears that while they got a VERY late start, the RAFTT boys will get their 50kW on the air prior to thier August drop dead date.

And, if you take a close look at the pattern approved in their CP, KILE has the potential of being a real blowtorch, even at 1560 kHz. All of the significant nulls in the pattern are to the southeast (to protect KGBC 1540 kHz in Galveston) and to the southwest where the deepest null is down to 80 watts (I'm not completely sure why on this one).

Meanwhile, the highest point of radiation in the pattern has an amazing 700,000 watts of RF in it and it's pointed straight at downtown Houston. The CP also shows they are using extremely tall (and therefore, efficient) towers in this array (three of them are 330 feet tall, more than a half wavelength on 1560 kHz). My guess is that, given the superb conductivity in the area (see tutorial on conductivity above), KILE will lay 25 mV/m or more across the downtown area with this new site (pretty slick for a station that began life as a 500 watt daytimer in Port Lavaca).

Word at NAB in April was KILE will install one of the new BE 4-MX50 50kW transmitters (it should be the 4th one after installs in LA, Boston, and at a Beasley AM in South Carolina). This new xmtr is unlike anything on the market. It is the first "from scratch" designed AM 50 kW since the advent of digital. It uses a newly patented form of modulation specifically designed to accomodate both analog and digital transmissions (in all other models, we're making mods to what are essentially analog only transmitters). Assuming no one else gets the first jump, if they turn the digital on with the 50kW, KILE would be the first operational digital AM in Texas.

This could be a VERY interesting radio station. True, the night situation is ifffffy. I looked at the FCC's site and RAFTT has been trying to get night authorization (and the Commission keeps throwing it back at them)[latest request filed this week is for 5 kw....how many power levels have they asked for in all...at least four] for more than five years now. Poor bastards! They've got Mexicans and Cubans (yes, SOME Cubans do get protection) right in the middle of their main bang and getting enough power to put an interference free signal over the city of license (Bellaire) at night and still protecting the Mexicans/Cubans is no small feat. If they can ever jump the night hurdle though, the KILE boys could have a real player on their hands. Time will tell.

just some thoughts............................

 

[Tonytoga]

> Um...
>
> What about the expanded band?
>
> Psst. Infinity, Bonneville, ABC, Cox even! There are a few
> "virgin" kilohertz of spectrum above 1600 here in Houston!
> Come and get 'em!
>
> >
> > "KGOL is not going to happen. I must forget about KGOL.
> > All of my posts about KGOL are futile." "I must forget
> about
> > any new stations or upgrades of any stations in Houston.
> It
> > is just wishful thinking and not possible. Be realistic."
>
>
> "Resistance is Futile. You will be assimilated. All your
> base are belong to us!"
>

Problem Geek..................

After what seemed an eternity, the FCC finally approved the expanded band nearly fifteen years ago......but, with a twist. They set aside the the Expanded Band (or "EB") as a tool to "declutter" AM and only invited applications from stations with severe grandfathered overlap to other stations. After yet more years, they granted fewer than 100 CP's (82 to be exact, as I remember).

The deal was that any licensee who accepted an EB allocation had to surrender their medium wave allocation (540 kHz to 1600 kHz) within 60 months of the licensing of the EB (I actually know of one license on 1530 kHz in California that has already turned off their old station and surrendered the license once the EB was on the air). The nearest EB to Houston is WTAW in College Station on 1620 kHz. It's medium wave sister, KZNE (1150 kHz), will have to be surrendered in less than two years now (an interesting sidebar to this story is that the station to which KZNE had all the overlap, KBIS in Highland Park - 1kW on 1150 kHz, is moving to 1160 kHz, eliminating virtually all of the overlap. Wonder what the KZNE boys will do?)

But, I digress.................

It seems a crying shame to have only 82 stations populate ten channels and a number of attempts have been made to change the rules. Unfortunately, the Commission has shown ZERO interest in making such a change. So, at least for now (maybe until your grandkids are grown)...............No EB's in the Houston market. Sorry.

 

[johndavis]

> Chuck you said that Radio Disney
> makes money for ABC/Disney, do you mean the stations
> themselves are a source of profit?

You probably can't measure their success in ad sales, but they probably see a surge in merchandise/theme parks/TV/you name it every time they hype it on Radio Disney. Do they even try to sell ad time on that format?

> I don't know about their ESPN
> radio network, if that is a profit center for them or not.
> ABC/Disney owns 80% of ESPN.

ABC Radio owns ESPN Radio. It makes money.

I'm not so sure how much I put into the news stories about them spinning off radio. Anything can happen, but I'm not sure if they'd get what they want for the properties in today's economy.<P ID="signature">______________
...co-moderator of the Satellite Radio, Phoenix, and San Diego boards...</P>

 

[houstonradiogeek]

By then the AM band will be history . . .

Thanks for the explanation. I can only sigh at the wasted opportunities.

I read on this board that KLAT 1010 was offered 1690 Khz, but they never followed up on it. In the mornings when I listen to Rolando Becerra's program I can hear some of KBBW (Waco) audio sipping in under KLAT's.

FCC... OY!!!

> >
>
> Problem Geek..................
>
> After what seemed an eternity, the FCC finally approved the
> expanded band nearly fifteen years ago......but, with a
> twist. They set aside the the Expanded Band (or "EB") as a
> tool to "declutter" AM and only invited applications from
> stations with severe grandfathered overlap to other
> stations. After yet more years, they granted fewer than 100
> CP's (82 to be exact, as I remember).
>
> The deal was that any licensee who accepted an EB allocation
> had to surrender their medium wave allocation (540 kHz to
> 1600 kHz) within 60 months of the licensing of the EB (I
> actually know of one license on 1530 kHz in California that
> has already turned off their old station and surrendered the
> license once the EB was on the air). The nearest EB to
> Houston is WTAW in College Station on 1620 kHz. It's medium
> wave sister, KZNE (1150 kHz), will have to be surrendered in
> less than two years now (an interesting sidebar to this
> story is that the station to which KZNE had all the overlap,
> KBIS in Highland Park - 1kW on 1150 kHz, is moving to 1160
> kHz, eliminating virtually all of the overlap. Wonder what
> the KZNE boys will do?)
>
> But, I digress.................
>
> It seems a crying shame to have only 82 stations populate
> ten channels and a number of attempts have been made to
> change the rules. Unfortunately, the Commission has shown
> ZERO interest in making such a change. So, at least for now
> (maybe until your grandkids are grown)...............No EB's
> in the Houston market. Sorry.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
I listen to what I like.
Ratings be Damned.</P>

 

[ChuckTiller]

Thats good info, Tony. If Salem were to purchase both 1050 and 1090 and turn THEM off, then it could happen. That is just a dream; Salem wouldn't go that far. That will not happen.

I must mention here that the call letters KNUZ are wasted on 1090. As a former 1230 KNUZ employee, it irks me to see what to see what happened to them. At one time, KNUZ was one of the biggest stations in Houston. (That was way before I got there in 1975) I hate seeing those calls stuck on a no-nothing station in Bellville.

 

[jd]

> I read on this board that KLAT 1010 was offered 1690 Khz,
> but they never followed up on it. In the mornings when I
> listen to Rolando Becerra's program I can hear some of KBBW
> (Waco) audio sipping in under KLAT's.
>
> FCC... OY!!!

I never figured out why KLAT didn't go through with the X-band thing, but maybe somebody here knows. Because they didn't pursue it, it killed 1690's availability for anybody else in Houston until the FCC entertains the expanded band issue once again. When or if that ever happens is anybody's guess.

Yep, it's a funny thing about KLAT's coverage. They've got a really good daytime signal over most of Houston, but if they go off the air unexpectedly, you _will_ hear KBBW. How KBBW (then KAWA) ever got their directional pattern approved is beyond me; they started as a 250 watt daytimer licensed to Marlin (southeast of Waco) and went to 10,000 watts in the mid '60's. (KLAT began its life as a low-powered daytimer, too, a few years before that with the KODA call letters.) 1010 from Waco has always cut into the Houston station's coverage area, and I can't help but think that the oriiginal application for a power increase here might have mentioned a "grandfathered" shortspacing issue. The interference is there, like you say; just drive out I-10 past Katy and it starts becoming really obvious.

 

[jd]

Re: AM Upgrades (attn: Tony)

> Thats good info, Tony. If Salem were to purchase both 1050
> and 1090 and turn THEM off, then it could happen. That is
> just a dream; Salem wouldn't go that far. That will not
> happen.

As far as I know Salem also didn't protest KOPY's application to move from Alice to Odem. The FCC okayed it, and KOPY 1070 will throw a strong signal over Corpus Christi. While they'll still be just 1,000 watts their .025 mVm contour moves closer toward Houston.

> I must mention here that the call letters KNUZ are wasted on
> 1090. As a former 1230 KNUZ employee, it irks me to see what
> to see what happened to them. At one time, KNUZ was one of
> the biggest stations in Houston. (That was way before I got
> there in 1975) I hate seeing those calls stuck on a
> no-nothing station in Bellville.

Me too, Chuck. What a waste of spectrum 1090 is, and what a useless move from Bellville to Katy. Tony's right, the locals don't care for Roy Henderson, and some of them probably want to run him out of town on a rail. (Oh wait, he's not in town...)

(**** note to Tony: excellent post, and it's interesting that you mentioned the coverage area of KTEM 1400 in Temple. I worked at 17 South 3rd, and I think our paths may have crossed at one time. My e-mail address is in my profile.)

 

[Tonytoga]

> > I read on this board that KLAT 1010 was offered 1690 Khz,
> > but they never followed up on it. In the mornings when I
> > listen to Rolando Becerra's program I can hear some of
> KBBW
> > (Waco) audio sipping in under KLAT's.
> >
> > FCC... OY!!!
>
> I never figured out why KLAT didn't go through with the
> X-band thing, but maybe somebody here knows. Because they
> didn't pursue it, it killed 1690's availability for anybody
> else in Houston until the FCC entertains the expanded band
> issue once again. When or if that ever happens is anybody's
> guess.
>
> Yep, it's a funny thing about KLAT's coverage. They've got
> a really good daytime signal over most of Houston, but if
> they go off the air unexpectedly, you _will_ hear KBBW. How
> KBBW (then KAWA) ever got their directional pattern approved
> is beyond me; they started as a 250 watt daytimer licensed
> to Marlin (southeast of Waco) and went to 10,000 watts in
> the mid '60's. (KLAT began its life as a low-powered
> daytimer, too, a few years before that with the KODA call
> letters.) 1010 from Waco has always cut into the Houston
> station's coverage area, and I can't help but think that the
> oriiginal application for a power increase here might have
> mentioned a "grandfathered" shortspacing issue. The
> interference is there, like you say; just drive out I-10
> past Katy and it starts becoming really obvious.
>

Just out of curiosity, I went back to see if KLAT actually was on the final list for 1690 kHz and sure enough, it was. The list was released as DA 97-537 in March of 1997 and included only 88 (I had recalled the list as having 82 in a previous post) allocations on it, including nine in Texas. As you may recall, there were over 500 initial requests and some licensees fought furiously to get one of these allocations (it took the Commission more than three years to deal with all the petitions for reconsideration when the initial ist was issued in 1994); however, a number of those who actually made it to the final list DID NOT accept the allocation when it was finally given to them.......among them KLAT.

The Nine Texas stations to get allocations (including 3 which received allotments and declined them) were:

KALT Atlanta..............from 910 kHz to 1610 kHz (Accepted the allocation)
WTAW College Station......from 1150 kHz to 1620 kHz (Accepted, on air)
KHVN Fort Worth...........from 970 kHz to 1630 kHz (Accepted, on air)
KURV Edinburg.............from 710 kHz to 1640 kHz (Declined the allotment)
KSVE El Paso..............from 1150 kHz to 1650 kHz (Accepted, on air)
KRZI Waco.................from 1580 kHz to 1660 kHz (Accepted, on air)
KBNA El Paso..............from 920 kHz to 1680 kHz (Declined the allotment)
KLAT Houston..............from 1010 kHz to 1690 kHz (Declined the allotment)
KDSX Sherman..............from 950 kHz to 1700 kHz (Accepted, on air)

I'm not sure just how many of the final 88 didn't take the allocation when it finally came. If you look at the ones in Texas that declined, KURV on 710 kHz, KBNA in El Paso on 920 kHz, and KLAT, you'll see that each is on a frequency below or very near 1000 kHz on the dial. The propogational differences between something on, say 950 kHz and 1650 kHz are quite dramatic.

For instance, the 1 mV/m contour of a 1 kw NON-Directional AM on 950 kHz in conductivity of 8 mmHos/m travels 38.4 miles whereas the idential facility on 1650 kHz travels only 20.0 miles. But you say, the EB's are all 10 kW Non-D. OK, take a look at KURV in Edinburg which has 1kW, Non-D on 710 kHz. If the conductivity were 8 (and it is more like 30 in the valley), KURV's 1 mV/m would travel 53.0 miles with 1 kW. At 10kW Non-D on 1640 kHz (which was the frequency they were offered, but it wouldn't have mattered which of the ten EB channels they might have gotten), its 1 mV/m signal would travel only 32 miles. They would have giveen up 21 MILES of coverage by taking the allocation.

There was also the question of getting audiences to migrate to a spot on the band that had never been there before. I'll bet at least 75% of the listening public doesn't even know there IS space above 1600 kHz on their radios. (Note: one station that has been very successful with the move is WTAW in College Station. They put their talk format on the EB and went sports on the old channel 1150 kHz. Word is they are very happy with the results)

The real question is: Why didn't ANYONE use any common sense when they sent in the post card request to make the switch? KURV would have been morons to take the EB, so why bother even asking for it in the first pace? Ditto KBNA in El Paso which operates on 920kHz. These stations should have taken a good look at what they would have IF they made the list before they ever applied....and the Commission could have used a little common sense too before they put these stations on the list. Oh well..............

As for KLAT, I think everyone agrees they've got a reasonable daytime signal and if you will recall, at the time, they were making changes to the night signal which they obviously hoped would improve their night situation as well. Looks like it was a toss up to me........they elected to stay put and probably didn't hurt themselves in the process.

One final note as a quiz: Does any one remember who spent the fortune to put the six tower array on 1010 kHz in Marlin/Waco? The answer later.

 

[oltheimmer]

> The intriguing part of all this is.........well, this:
>
> Houston is unique among the top 10 metros in that, until
> now, it has had only one 50 kW AM serving it (remember, KGOL
> doesn't count cuz its all messed up by that no good
> conductivity thing). No one I've talked to has ever seemed
> to know why it worked out that way back in the 1930's but if
> you look at the other top ten markets, you'll see as many as
> NINE 50 kW AM's. Hell, there are four 50 kW operations in
> San Antonio! It makes sense that another 50 kW here could
> make a major player sit up and take a shot at a format here.
>
>
That Houston had only one 50 kW AM used to perplex me as a kid in the 50s and early 60s as I dx’d on my Transoceanic and continued when I moved away and could almost never pick up Houston stations.

Houston only became the largest city in the state in the 1930 Census, surpassing San Antonio, and businesses with the financial well-being to put stations on the air and keep them on the air seem to have come to radio later in Houston than elsewhere in the state.

Look at the oldest stations: Dallas (WRR, first station in Texas, 1921), Bryan-College Station, Austin, Fort Worth, Waco and San Antonio all had stations on the air by September, 1922, that are still on the air.

But KPRC (Kotton Port, Rail Center), the oldest station still on the air in Houston, didn’t start until May 9, 1925, altho it might have been on the air much earlier but for an untimely death.

By 1930, of the 15 licenses authorized in Houston only 4 were still on the air and none of the ones prior to KPRC. Two of the four had just signed on in 1930. By ca. 1932-33, the city had only 3 stations - KPRC, KTRH, KXYZ - and it stayed that way until KTHT signed on in 1944.

Then when Dave Morris put KNUZ on the air in 1948, he concluded he only needed 250 watts at 1230 kc (to be historically accurate) to cover the city.

It seems to me Houston businessmen just didn’t take to the medium with as much
enthusiasm as elsewhere and underestimated the growth of the medium and the city and therefore may not have seen the need to seek higher power authorizations.

Also, I’m only a layman and didn’t understand all of your technical discussion, but wouldn’t the superior conductivity (closer to the coast?) also have been a reason Houston businessmen might not have felt the need to seek higher operating power?

 

[Tonytoga]

Re: "Layman" understands conductivity

> That Houston had only one 50 kW AM used to perplex me as a
> kid in the 50s and early 60s as I dx’d on my Transoceanic
> and continued when I moved away and could almost never pick
> up Houston stations.
>
> Houston only became the largest city in the state in the
> 1930 Census, surpassing San Antonio, and businesses with the
> financial well-being to put stations on the air and keep
> them on the air seem to have come to radio later in Houston
> than elsewhere in the state.
>
> Look at the oldest stations: Dallas (WRR, first station in
> Texas, 1921), Bryan-College Station, Austin, Fort Worth,
> Waco and San Antonio all had stations on the air by
> September, 1922, that are still on the air.
>
> But KPRC (Kotton Port, Rail Center), the oldest station
> still on the air in Houston, didn’t start until May 9, 1925,
> altho it might have been on the air much earlier but for an
> untimely death.
>
> By 1930, of the 15 licenses authorized in Houston only 4
> were still on the air and none of the ones prior to KPRC.
> Two of the four had just signed on in 1930. By ca. 1932-33,
> the city had only 3 stations - KPRC, KTRH, KXYZ - and it
> stayed that way until KTHT signed on in 1944.
>
> Then when Dave Morris put KNUZ on the air in 1948, he
> concluded he only needed 250 watts at 1230 kc (to be
> historically accurate) to cover the city.
>
> It seems to me Houston businessmen just didn’t take to the
> medium with as much
> enthusiasm as elsewhere and underestimated the growth of the
> medium and the city and therefore may not have seen the need
> to seek higher power authorizations.
>
> Also, I’m only a layman and didn’t understand all of your
> technical discussion, but wouldn’t the superior conductivity
> (closer to the coast?) also have been a reason Houston
> businessmen might not have felt the need to seek higher
> operating power?
>

Your observations probably hit very close to the truth. Houston's "late bloom" probably had much to do with the lack of 50 kw's here. Heck, even places like Waterloo, Iowa and Fort Wayne, Indianna (HUGE metros) wound up with the 50 kW Class I operations.........and probably because someone saw the future, staked a claim to the frequency, and fought to keep it.

Back in the 20's and 30's (especially after the Roosevelt administration took over in 1933), there was a lot of jockeying around on frequencies and power. Prior to FDR, there was federal oversight of the frequencies but they were treated more as a "property rights" thing. Only after FDR did licensees become "public trustees." Of the original 100 AM channels, 25 were set aside as U.S. Class 1-A stations (50,000 watts day and night, non-directional) with only one dominant station on the frequency.

Others were classified as class I-B stations with TWO dominant stations, each ATLEAST 10,000 watts but up to 50,000 watts day and night, BUT with a directional antenna system at night to protect the other Class I-B in the U.S. These two stations were generally located on opposite ends of the country from each other and used simple two or three tower arrays to protect each other at night. (I know of only one 1-B that never upgraded from 10,000 watts to 50,000 watts (KNZR, Bakersfield, CA on 1560 kHz).

There were, I think, 15 channels set aside for Canada and Mexico to have 1-A clear channels (740kHz, for instance is actually a Canadian Clear, so is 1010 kHz). U.S. stations could operate on those channels as long as the Canadians were protected. Many U.S. allocations became daytimers on these frequencies and most did not operate with 50 kW although it was allowed.

Most of the rest of the channels were classified Class III or "regional" channels and were limited to not more than 5 kw day and 5 kw night (610 kHz, 790 kHz, 950 kHz, 1320 kHz, 1430 kHz and 1480 kHz, all Houston allocations, fell into this catagory). This 5kw limit rule was abolished in 1993 giving all old Class III stations the right to go to 50 kw.......ASSUMING THEY COULD PROTECT OTHER STATIONS ALREADY ON THE AIR. Unfortunately, (which is the case with pretty much all Houston's old Class III's except KXYZ) allocation protection requirements to co channel and adjacent channel stations act to prohibit most Class III's making this improvement. It's a shame because most metro's have long outgrown the coverage areas of the large number Class III's that populate them.

Incidentally, you mentioned Dave Morris only "needing" 250 watts to cover Houston on 1230 kHz. That's not exactly right. In the 1933-35 shuffle of frequencies and power, six frequencies were set aside as Class IV or "local" channels.........1230 kHz, 1240 kHz, 1340 kHz, 1400 kHz, 1450 kHz, and 1490 kHz. These six frequencies were all to be NON-Directional (both day and night) and were originally granted only 100 watts of operating power. They were intended to serve only small communities like Huntsville, Lufkin, Nacogdoches, etc.

In 1945, they were allowed to go to 250 watts fulltime (David Morris took the 250 watts because that was all he could get at the time). In 1963, the Class IV's (at least those not near the Canadian border where the Canooks pitched a fit) were allowed to increase daytime power to 1 kw but were restricted to 250 watts at night. Finally, in the late 1980's, they were allowed to increase night power to 1 kw as well.

The problem with the old Class IV's is that there are so many of them and they all have to just accept interference generated by the hundreds of others on the frequency. Under Section 73.37(e)(ii) of the FCC's rules, they were also allocated as though they operated at 250 watts even though they had almost all gone to 1 kw! What a horrible mess.

Your are though, right about the conductivity along the coastline of Texas having much to do with the lack of 50's here. Other than KTRH, the only other 50 kW operations right along the Texas coast (again, KGOL is way up in the crappy conductivity and has a signal much more in line with a 5 kw than a 50) are KCTA on 1030 kHz (U.S. 1-A clear) in Corpus Christi and KGBT on 1530 kHz (U.S. 1-B clear) in Harlingen. The incredible conductivity along the coast is the chief reason for this (KGBT, for instance has MORE than 1 mV/m of signal in Freeport.......hundreds of miles from Harlingen).

Still seems odd that Houston got so shortchanged in the original dealing.

 

[oltheimmer]

Re: "Layman" understands conductivity

Thanks for your explanation and apologies for being so slow to get back to this board to acknowledge.

Your mention of the Commerce Dept. reminded me of the program KUHT did a few years ago on Jesse H. Jones, 'Brother, Can You Spare a Billion.' Jones served as head of the Reconstruction Finance Corporation under FDR during the Depression and was considered by many to be the second most powerful man in the country. Later, he was also head of the Commerce Dept., which oversees the FCC, I believe.

Jones had bankrolled the 1928 Democratic Convention in Houston, owned the Rice Hotel, the Chronicle and a little radio station called KTRH which actually got on the air very late -- late in 1930, as a matter of fact. Two other licenses issued to the Chronicle as early as 1922 did not survive. That a man so well connected in Washington with 2 short-lived radio stations on his resume who finally got a station on the air rather late might wind up with the only 50 kilowatt AM station in Houston might not be just a coincidence!

I don't know anything about Waterloo, IA, but re: Fort Wayne, IN. I presume you're referring to WOWO and with regard to that, Westinghouse, Group W, always had a lot of influence in Washington and VERY good lawyers. But I know nothing of how these matters were decided.

I believe it was Chuck Tiller who posted in an earlier thread on this board that he had been told by old timers at KNUZ that Morris had traded with KTHT, which occupied the 1230 frequency from 1944 to 1948, because he didn't think he needed any more than 250w. KTHT moved to 790 and 5000w.

Cheers,

O.L.

 

[thebeach33445]

Does anybody know the exact date in 2005 that CNN 650 went on the air? I see the 650 history is a little fuzzy from when it was classic country 650.

Thanks

T.J.