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Former Oldies 99.7 KFRC flips to MOViN

KFRC, the station in San Fransisco that was Oldies until last year, then flipped to Classic hits (70s and 80s with very few 60s) last September? has now flipped again to MOViN 99.7, a Rhythmic/Uptempo AC format from the 70s-today. Not really an Oldies loss but I thought I would note it. Thoughts?

From what I heard of it after the Classic Hits switch, it wasn't impressive....I think it should have stayed Oldies in the first place.
 
Yup. Dumpin' "oldies" -- ee-gad. Those songs are SOO OLD. Only gray-hairs listen --- and goin' with 70s junk as the station had, sure is a solution. Look how well the "solution" worked here.

Another bubblehead decision by a lard ass running radio.
 
doug said:
Yup. Dumpin' "oldies" -- ee-gad. Those songs are SOO OLD. Only gray-hairs listen --- and goin' with 70s junk as the station had, sure is a solution. Look how well the "solution" worked here.

Another bubblehead decision by a lard ass running radio.

Another reality check that agencies do not buy 55+.
 
But the station lasted so long with NEW oldies - didn't it? Like 6 months??

KFRC, like K-EARTH, used to be a great station. The suits and boobs running da' joints put their excrement on them...
 
doug said:
But the station lasted so long with NEW oldies - didn't it? Like 6 months??

KFRC, like K-EARTH, used to be a great station. The suits and boobs running da' joints put their excrement on them...

You are not getting the economic reality. The stations may have been great oldies staitons. But since 60's oldies appeal to mostly folks over 55, there is nobody to pay the bills. This discussion has nothing to do with how good KFRC or KRTH or any other oldies station is or was. It is simply about why oldies is not economically viable any more; without revenue, there is no way to sustain a format.

Management has NOTHING at all to do with the fact that oldies fans aged. And they have nothing to do with the fact that there are few if any ad buys for 55+.
 
doug said:
But the station lasted so long with NEW oldies - didn't it? Like 6 months??

KFRC, like K-EARTH, used to be a great station. The suits and boobs running da' joints put their excrement on them...

no better and no worse than when they were an "oldies" oldies station. rarely in the top 10 25-54

besides..........all this "LEGEND OF KFRC" we'll hear over this is bogus.......KFRC hasn't been KFRC for years
 
For those who can't tell the players without a scorecard...

David Eduardo nows plays under the name "Old Gringo."

Orlando Radio Fan / Oldies Cat now plays under the name "radiofriend1."
 
Much to the dismay of CC and CBS, the average age of an oldie station listener is NOT 55+! That + sign would include my dad, now 82, and an Artie Shaw fan! It's nonsense, and antone in sales knows better. That's crap.

The target demo of most oldies stations programming '64-'75 music is 45-60. Do your math of a 15 year old in 1970, buying 45's. They are the filet mignon of the boomers, with different needs. They've got cash, investments: they're buying retirement property, travelling, pharmaceuticals, premium jewelery, banking, financial planning, oh hell, the list goes on and on.

The format sales problem is the stupid sales managers keep telling owners they can't seel it because they're too stupid, chasing after the Hyundai Dealer who wants buyers with bad credit so he can rock them on interest.
 
They've also got their microwave, furniture, lawn mowers and all those goods folks need when they're setting up housekeeping for the first time..they aren't as likely to go into hock for "stuff". Many are also paying for college. Somehow, I'm not even sure I'd want to listen to a station with great oldies, great positioners, great jocks and nothing but pharmaceutical and "older folks" ads.
 
amfmsw said:
Much to the dismay of CC and CBS, the average age of an oldie station listener is NOT 55+! That + sign would include my dad, now 82, and an Artie Shaw fan! It's nonsense, and antone in sales knows better. That's crap.

The target demo of most oldies stations programming '64-'75 music is 45-60. Do your math of a 15 year old in 1970, buying 45's. They are the filet mignon of the boomers, with different needs. They've got cash, investments: they're buying retirement property, travelling, pharmaceuticals, premium jewelery, banking, financial planning, oh hell, the list goes on and on.

The format sales problem is the stupid sales managers keep telling owners they can't seel it because they're too stupid, chasing after the Hyundai Dealer who wants buyers with bad credit so he can rock them on interest.

The avewrage age of a "true" oldies station playing 60's is in the passed-55 demo. (Arbitron uses "average" when they really mean "median" by the way.)

Oldies stations get very little 35-44 listening. Most is in the 45-54 and 55+. As each year passes, more is in 55+, and less is salable to agencies. In the larger markets where music FMs mostly do agency business, this is critical

Whether 55+ buy things or not is immaterial. Agencies have client dictates to not buy 55+, so this is a hard fact.

The reason there are no-55+ dictates is that most agency clients have done studies and find that the ROI on selling an older consumer produces a loss on every sale made.

Sellers and sales managers have ZERO control over the demographics a client asks an agency to go after.

Marketers who do go after 55+ do not use radio, as there are better media than radio for targeting them by specific interest groups... magazines, direct mail, etc.
 
radiofriend1 said:
doug said:
But the station lasted so long with NEW oldies - didn't it? Like 6 months??

KFRC, like K-EARTH, used to be a great station. The suits and boobs running da' joints put their excrement on them...

no better and no worse than when they were an "oldies" oldies station. rarely in the top 10 25-54

besides..........all this "LEGEND OF KFRC" we'll hear over this is bogus.......KFRC hasn't been KFRC for years

In radio, your heritage is determined by how good you were the last time a listener tuned in. Heritage... bah, humbug.
 
Re: For those who can't tell the players without a scorecard...

Clemwriter said:
David Eduardo nows plays under the name "Old Gringo."

Orlando Radio Fan / Oldies Cat now plays under the name "radiofriend1."

i cannot speak for dave but i am not from orlando and never have been and oldies is not my bag either

who did U supposedly ** used to be **???????
 
OldGringo said:
Whether 55+ buy things or not is immaterial. Agencies have client dictates to not buy 55+, so this is a hard fact.

The reason there are no-55+ dictates is that most agency clients have done studies and find that the ROI on selling an older consumer produces a loss on every sale made.

Sellers and sales managers have ZERO control over the demographics a client asks an agency to go after.

Marketers who do go after 55+ do not use radio, as there are better media than radio for targeting them by specific interest groups... magazines, direct mail, etc.

That may be changing. I attended the "Extreme Thinkers" session at the NAB Radio Show on Friday. Among the panelists was Marian Salzman who is Executive Vice President and Chief Marketing Officer from J. Walter Thompson. She said that she thought the new "Hot Demo" is the 50-70 group. She described these people as "going through their second adolescence." I thought that was a very astute observation. They are buying Harleys, RV’s HDTV’s, boats, second homes, cruises and a lot of other stuff they couldn’t afford when they were raising a house full of kids. I know lots of people who fit that description, me included. She also mentioned all the other obvious things about that demo that people on this group have pointed out for a long time.

My hat is of to her for recognizing this. Maybe it will be a growing trend. There also seemed to be very little disagreement among the panelists that most kids have abandoned radio, or more likely have never really discovered it. There are too many other media distractions in their lives.

It seems obvious to me that if radio wants to prosper, at least for now, it behooves them to market their formats to people who already include radio in their lives. Obviously, they will need to crack the younger demo as well if radio is to sustain itself, but the quick fix is to go after the aging boomers.
 
Re: For those who can't tell the players without a scorecard...

radiofriend1 said:
who did U supposedly ** used to be **?

Me? I've always been Clemwriter. Chill about the name thing. I'm just glad you're back - although the lowercase "u" thing is rather 90s. Louie sounds great. Cheers.
 
Chuck said:
OldGringo said:
Whether 55+ buy things or not is immaterial. Agencies have client dictates to not buy 55+, so this is a hard fact.

The reason there are no-55+ dictates is that most agency clients have done studies and find that the ROI on selling an older consumer produces a loss on every sale made.

Sellers and sales managers have ZERO control over the demographics a client asks an agency to go after.

Marketers who do go after 55+ do not use radio, as there are better media than radio for targeting them by specific interest groups... magazines, direct mail, etc.

That may be changing. I attended the "Extreme Thinkers" session at the NAB Radio Show on Friday. Among the panelists was Marian Salzman who is Executive Vice President and Chief Marketing Officer from J. Walter Thompson. She said that she thought the new "Hot Demo" is the 50-70 group. She described these people as "going through their second adolescence." I thought that was a very astute observation. They are buying Harleys, RV’s HDTV’s, boats, second homes, cruises and a lot of other stuff they couldn’t afford when they were raising a house full of kids. I know lots of people who fit that description, me included. She also mentioned all the other obvious things about that demo that people on this group have pointed out for a long time.

My hat is of to her for recognizing this. Maybe it will be a growing trend. There also seemed to be very little disagreement among the panelists that most kids have abandoned radio, or more likely have never really discovered it. There are too many other media distractions in their lives.

It seems obvious to me that if radio wants to prosper, at least for now, it behooves them to market their formats to people who already include radio in their lives. Obviously, they will need to crack the younger demo as well if radio is to sustain itself, but the quick fix is to go after the aging boomers.

only problem is young gm's who have no luv for oldies- so they don't sell it up the ladder becuz they know the ad $ won't be there. which makes sense
 
Chuck said:
That may be changing. I attended the "Extreme Thinkers" session at the NAB Radio Show on Friday. Among the panelists was Marian Salzman who is Executive Vice President and Chief Marketing Officer from J. Walter Thompson. She said that she thought the new "Hot Demo" is the 50-70 group. She described these people as "going through their second adolescence." I thought that was a very astute observation. They are buying Harleys, RV’s HDTV’s, boats, second homes, cruises and a lot of other stuff they couldn’t afford when they were raising a house full of kids. I know lots of people who fit that description, me included. She also mentioned all the other obvious things about that demo that people on this group have pointed out for a long time.

My hat is of to her for recognizing this. Maybe it will be a growing trend. There also seemed to be very little disagreement among the panelists that most kids have abandoned radio, or more likely have never really discovered it. There are too many other media distractions in their lives.

It seems obvious to me that if radio wants to prosper, at least for now, it behooves them to market their formats to people who already include radio in their lives. Obviously, they will need to crack the younger demo as well if radio is to sustain itself, but the quick fix is to go after the aging boomers.

Once again, the radio industry has missed the bus and is only belatedly discovering what this lady is saying.

BTW, I have two daughters who consider themselves P1 KRTH-101 listeners, when we're in the XMless car, but like the 60s on 6 better.
 
zumahans said:
Once again, the radio industry has missed the bus and is only belatedly discovering what this lady is saying.

That "lady" is talking out of both sides of her mouth. While she identifies a market segment, her own agency and other all agencies do not have clients that are buying radio for 55+.

As I have said before, stations get reports from their reps on agency (national and regional) business that is up for the market, and, across multiple top 10 markets, there has been no 55+ business all year. Same goes for prior years. You can not go for what is not out there.

Radio can not program to an audience segment that has no demand from ad buyers.

A little story... In Tampa / St. Pete, the #1 station 12+ is WDUV. Has been for nearly a decade. However, it is #15 in billings. WDUV targets 55+ only, and has essentially no under-55 listening. Even in a metro that knows it makes billions from retirees, there is not enough ad revenue to make the #1 station a top biller when it has an old audience.

Radio is not missing any chances. It is simply responding to demands from advertisers, via their agencies, for 18-54 demos. If this changes, radio will respond.
 
Chuck said:
It seems obvious to me that if radio wants to prosper, at least for now, it behooves them to market their formats to people who already include radio in their lives. Obviously, they will need to crack the younger demo as well if radio is to sustain itself, but the quick fix is to go after the aging boomers.

Problem: there is no ad revenue from 55+ formats. Client dictates, not the fault of radio sales.
 
OldGringo said:
Problem: there is no ad revenue from 55+ formats. Client dictates, not the fault of radio sales.

Probably true for now, David, but maybe a few agencies are beginning to see the light. Then again, maybe not. The seminar was called "Extreme Thinkers."
 
A little story... In Tampa / St. Pete, the #1 station 12+ is WDUV. Has been for nearly a decade. However, it is #15 in billings. WDUV targets 55+ only, and has essentially no under-55 listening. Even in a metro that knows it makes billions from retirees, there is not enough ad revenue to make the #1 station a top biller when it has an old audience.


Not being in the business, I don't understand why #15 in billings is a bad thing.
We know that radio is dying due to a lack of younger listeners. So if #15 in billings allows a station to meet the payroll and make a little profit, what's wrong with that? It seems like that would be better than putting a lock on the station door.
 
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