Fox looking to acquire more stations

[Rick Rose 2.0]

Cox got rid of some tv stations in markets where they did not own any radio stations and bought some tv stations in places they already had radio. Considering KTVU/KICU duopoly is the only Cox presence in the bay area it may be possible to sell but Cox would have to get more than money out of the deal i would assume.

 

[nomadcowatbk]

FOX can negotiate tribune to buy KCPQ/KZJO Seattle/Tacoma and KTVI/KPLR St. Louis. As for San Francisco, they can negotiate either KTVU/KICU or KRON. Just a curiosity, why did FOX give away KTVI FOX 2 St. Louis? If KTVI is the station for the St. Louis Rams.

This is the info I've found thanks to a few quick Google searches and website perusals:

Fox sold KTVI (and WITI and others) to Local TV LLC to provide News Corp. with a bit of cash to buy the Wall Street Journal. KTVI and WITI were sold off instead of KTBC and WHBQ primarily because: Austin and Memphis were markets too small for Local TV to consider; St. Louis and Milwaukee were deemed large enough for Local TV's liking, yet small enough that Fox felt they could afford to sell off those stations.

As far as Fox buying any of these stations in St. Louis, San Francisco, and Seattle - I'll believe it when I see it. NFC market or not, I don't see Fox being terribly interested in St. Louis anymore - it's years removed from the Top 20 TV markets, and though it may be larger than Charlotte, it's not perceived as an up-and-coming market comparatively.

St. Louis may not even be an NFC market for much longer, it's already a baseball town

 

[Brother]

Not quite accurate. WHBQ-Memphis wasn't spun off to Local TV because they already had a station in the market, WREG (The New York Times station group, of which WREG belonged, was the basis for Local TV) and they would not be able to operate both as a duopoly because both rank in the top 4, ratings wise. Fox kept KTBC-Austin because it is complimentary to the other O&Os in Texas (Dallas and Houston) and it is a growing market.

I'm sure in hindsight, FTSG wishes they had kept hold of KTVI and possibly WITI as well. But I believe the decisions for that were made in the NewsCorp executive offices, which was desperate to get its hands on the Wall Street Journal.

I honestly don't see Cox parting with KTVU period. The station is a cash cow. And even if Fox buys KRON and moves the affiliation there, the station still would make money in the market.

Thanks for the corrections, Tim. the only time I know I'm right is when I think I'm wrong.

Still, even if Fox regrets selling off KTVI, I doubt they have much (if any) interest in reacquiring it. The St. Louis market is stagnant at best, unlike up-and-coming markets like Austin and Charlotte. Also, on the surface, Fox doesn't appear to have any beefs with their Tribune-owned affiliates.

 

[Tim-In-Houston]

Fox sold KTVI and several othes to raise cash for a very complex deal to get John Malone and his Rainbow Media out of Fox. It worked and now that they've had a chance to let the dust settle and pile up some more cash, they're looking to buy again.

One aspect of these rumors makes no sense to me: Cox selling KTVU. I know Fox could yank the affiliation if it bought KRON, but the impact on KTVU would not be like what happened when NBC left KRON. KTVU is strong throughout the day with only the 2 hours of prime being supplied by Fox. Fox would have a hard time competing against what is now arguably its strongest affiliate. Cox could probably find some decent programming to fill the prime time hole, or just add more news and cruise along without too much lost revenue. It's not like KRON that had to find a way to fill 12+ hours daily that had been supplied by NBC.

Cox won't part with KTVU unless Fox offers a huge amount of money or some kind of ownership stake in Fox. Maybe that's the negotiation going on now.

My thoughts exactly. I could see KTVU going the KCAL route with news in primetime. The Asiana debacle, not withstanding, KTVU has a fairly good news reputation and could leverage that by going news-heavy.

Part of the reason KRON went so far downhill so fast was the negative return on investment Young received when they outbid NBC for the station back in 2000. They drastically overpaid and then balked when a still-po'd NBC demanded an insane (for the time) amount of reverse compensation. But by losing NBC (and it's attached ad dollars throughout the day), they had no choice but to cut to the bone, hire the cheapest VJs they could find, etc. All of which made their news-heavy approach look amateurish, which further drove down their advertising rates.

I don't think KTVU would have anywhere near the same problem expanding their news since they are not saddled with a huge amount of debt. And, as you pointed out, (outside sports) they only rely on Fox to program 2 hours daily.

 

[LKellerIII]

Fox sold KTVI and several othes to raise cash for a very complex deal to get John Malone and his Rainbow Media out of Fox. It worked and now that they've had a chance to let the dust settle and pile up some more cash, they're looking to buy again.

One aspect of these rumors makes no sense to me: Cox selling KTVU. I know Fox could yank the affiliation if it bought KRON, but the impact on KTVU would not be like what happened when NBC left KRON. KTVU is strong throughout the day with only the 2 hours of prime being supplied by Fox. Fox would have a hard time competing against what is now arguably its strongest affiliate. Cox could probably find some decent programming to fill the prime time hole, or just add more news and cruise along without too much lost revenue. It's not like KRON that had to find a way to fill 12+ hours daily that had been supplied by NBC.

Cox won't part with KTVU unless Fox offers a huge amount of money or some kind of ownership stake in Fox. Maybe that's the negotiation going on now.

My thoughts exactly. I could see KTVU going the KCAL route with news in primetime. The Asiana debacle, not withstanding, KTVU has a fairly good news reputation and could leverage that by going news-heavy.

Part of the reason KRON went so far downhill so fast was the negative return on investment Young received when they outbid NBC for the station back in 2000. They drastically overpaid and then balked when a still-po'd NBC demanded an insane (for the time) amount of reverse compensation. But by losing NBC (and it's attached ad dollars throughout the day), they had no choice but to cut to the bone, hire the cheapest VJs they could find, etc. All of which made their news-heavy approach look amateurish, which further drove down their advertising rates.

I don't think KTVU would have anywhere near the same problem expanding their news since they are not saddled with a huge amount of debt. And, as you pointed out, (outside sports) they only rely on Fox to program 2 hours daily.

When KCAL went into prime- time news, there were probably not ANY other prime-time news programs in the LA market, and they were independent. But now, there is prime-time news all over the dial. KTVU runs news at 7:00 on KICU, KRON runs news at 8:00, KGO-TV runs news on KOFY at 9:00, and KPIX runs news on KBCW 10:00. I don't see KTVU gaining anything by competing with that.

KTVU's once stellar reputation for no-nonsense news doesn't really apply anymore - mostly because (IMO) the quality of the network O&Os has improved so dramaticaly, especially KGO-TV. Nobody in the Bay Area is doing sensationalized "if it bleeds it leads" type news, or "happy talk" anymore. That died in the early 90s.

 

[AKA]

Who says KTVU would even need to add news in primetime if they lost Fox? They can easily fill two hours per night with syndicated programming or movies and leave their news broadcasts as they are. KRON had more than twelve hours per day to quickly fill back in 2002; financially speaking, they pretty much had to go news-intense.

KTVU, on the other hand, seems to be in good shape, and could still be very profitable as an independent; far from "another KRON."

 

[Markxxx]

What is the status of KTVU, KRON and KNTV in terms of transmitters, location and such in the digital era?

I add KNTV for fun to throw NBC into the mix, though totally unlikely.

I mean would FOX gain any technical advantage by going to KRON, would NBC want to leave KNTV if the signal is still not optimized?

Just out of curiosity, what are the signals like in SF/San Jose? Since cable penetration is pretty high, I am assuming it's not the first thing on the list, but I guess it'd still be a consideration.

 

[e-dawg]

Since I live in San Francisco near City College of San Francisco.

I can get all of Bay Area TV stations except for the following.

KAXT DT 42 (RF1) Mt. Allison
KDTV DT 14 (RF51) Mt. Allison
KRCB DT 22 (RF23) Santa Rosa
KFTL DT 28 (RF28) San Bruno Mtn. (for some odd reason I can't pick up this station).
KMMC DT 40 (RF40) San Bruno Mtn. (for some odd reason I can't pick up this station).
KTNC DT 42 (RF 14) Mt. Diablo
KSTS DT 48 (RF 49) Mt. Allison
KEMO DT 50 (RF 32) Santa Rosa
KDTS DT 52 (RF 8) Mt. Diablo
KQEH DT 54 (RF 50) Mt. Allison (I can pick up occasionally)
KTLN DT 68 (RF 47) Novato

 

[fybush]

What is the status of KTVU, KRON and KNTV in terms of transmitters, location and such in the digital era?

I add KNTV for fun to throw NBC into the mix, though totally unlikely.

I mean would FOX gain any technical advantage by going to KRON, would NBC want to leave KNTV if the signal is still not optimized?

Just out of curiosity, what are the signals like in SF/San Jose? Since cable penetration is pretty high, I am assuming it's not the first thing on the list, but I guess it'd still be a consideration.

Let me highly recommend my friend Trip Ericson's rabbitears.info site, which has more DTV data for the entire country than you can even begin to imagine, including transmitter sites and coverage maps. Specifically, go to http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php and pick a market or plug in a callsign. Then you can click on the callsign link to get much more technical data about each station. Click on the highlighted channel number to get coverage maps.

KTVU and KRON are essentially identical signals, on RF 44 and 38 respectively, transmitting from Sutro. The Sutro signals aren't great in the South Bay, and KTVU makes up for that to some extent with its digital replacement translator on RF 48 from Monument Peak.

KNTV operates from San Bruno, with the disadvantage of being on VHF (RF 12), the advantage of a much better location for coverage of the peninsula and parts of the South Bay and East Bay, and the disadvantage of some terrain blockage within the City and in the North Bay.

As you note, given the high cable penetration, it seems highly unlikely that NBC (or Fox, for that matter) would buy another license just to get a marginally better OTA signal.

 

[crackedscreen]

Bay Area media blogger Rich Lieberman posts this:

**A group of Fox Network Execs will be coming to the Bay Area in a few weeks and their trip to the city is not for pleasure. Furthermore, they will not be meeting with execs from KTVU, (their Cox Media-owned SF-Oak affiliate)--instead they will have their sights set on the Van Ness corridor, near the area of 1001 Van Ness --yes, the address of KRON. Coincidence? Perhaps. You be the judge.

 

[JeeperOne]

Theoretically, Fox could pick up two Cox-owned stations
in NFC markets; besides KIRO there's KTVU Oakland/San
Francisco (49ers), and Fox is the only one of the big four
networks without an o&o in San Francisco.

There's NO WAY that CBS will give up KIRO 7 as an affiliate. In fact dare I say they'd rather give up KSTW 11 as a CW O&O to Fox & move the CW to Q13 before giving up KIRO 7 as a CBS affiliate

JMO.....

Cheers & 73 ;D

 

[JeeperOne]

If they really want a station in the Bay Area, KRON should be snatched up.

fox could probably snatch up both KTVU 2 & KRON 4

Then this way, KRON 4 can AT LEAST look A WHOLE LOT SPIFFIER than it does now even though it'd be newsless

Cheers & 73 ;D

 

[JeeperOne]

FOX can negotiate tribune to buy KCPQ/KZJO Seattle/Tacoma and KTVI/KPLR St. Louis. As for San Francisco, they can negotiate either KTVU/KICU or KRON. Just a curiosity, why did FOX give away KTVI FOX 2 St. Louis? If KTVI is the station for the St. Louis Rams.

KTVI and the others Fox sold were just a single stations

And that also included WITI in Milwaukee. By the logic in the original post, they shouldn't have given that away with the widespread popularity of the Packers.

those stations were outside the Top 20 markets

...and Memphis and Austin are even further outside...

And Charlotte is EVEN FURTHER outside than that. On top of that, only Charlotte has an NFL team (Carolina Panthers)

If Fox is basing all this on NFC/NFL ties, there's these stations to consider too.....

WOFL 35 - No NFL team
KRIV 26 - Houston Texans is an AFC team (Like Denver Broncos are)
WFXT 25 - New England Patriots is an AFC team
KTTV 11 - No NFL team (Yeah I know it's Los Angeles but I'm just being technical here)

They can trim an awful lot of fat on those stations alone (Especially with the latter two)

Just sayin'.....

Cheers & 73 ;D

 

[JeeperOne]

Fox sold KTVI (and WITI and others) to Local TV LLC to provide News Corp. with a bit of cash to buy the Wall Street Journal. KTVI and WITI were sold off instead of KTBC and WHBQ primarily because: Austin and Memphis were markets too small for Local TV to consider; St. Louis and Milwaukee were deemed large enough for Local TV's liking, yet small enough that Fox felt they could afford to sell off those stations.

Actually in the case of Memphis, it was more of a case of Local TV already owning a station there - WREG 3 (CBS) which they could not add on to by buying WHBQ 13

Cheers & 73 ;D

 

[Joseph_Gallant]

If Fox is basing all this on NFC/NFL ties, there's these stations to consider too.....

WOFL 35 - No NFL team
KRIV 26 - Houston Texans is an AFC team (Like Denver Broncos are)
WFXT 25 - New England Patriots is an AFC team
KTTV 11 - No NFL team (Yeah I know it's Los Angeles but I'm just being technical here)

Under the NFL television agreements, which network televises Sunday-afternoon games between NFC and AFC teams depends on who is the visiting club (since the question of who televises interconference games was decided before the league allowed sold-out home games to be televised).

According to the 2013 NFL schedules, KRIV will carry two home games of the Houston Texans (September 29th vs. Seattle and October 13th against St. Louis), while WFXT will carry two home games of the New England Patriots (against Tampa Bay on September 22nd and against New Orleans on October 13th).

Generally (assuming all home games are sold out and such games in question aren't moved to prime-time), two home games of every AFC team each year are on Fox, while two home games each year of every NFC team are on CBS.

 

[nathannah]

KRIV would stay with Fox both because the network has made a large investment on that station's studios as a production hub for syndicated programming for Twentieth (even if it's just court shows), and also because they might not have the Texans but they have the next best thing; the Cowboys, which they take by near default. No way they give up KRIV.

 

[purpledevil]

Keep in mind Fox owns a duopoly with KTXH (My 20) here in Houston. Now, KRIV does air some of the Cowboys games, but KRIV itself covers the Texans only in their sports department. It is RARE to see any news related to the Cowboys on any of our 4 big newscasts, unless it's something involving the police. KHOU, who of course airs most of the Texans games as our CBS affiliate, only recently lured retired longtime KTRK sports director Bob Allen back to work and just began a Sunday night sports show. If I'm not mistaken, it is 11's first attempt at a 30 minute sports show directly following the news, and they've carried the Texans since the team's inaugural season. KRIV has completely focused on the Texans in their sports show, even to the point of glancing over the other teams. KRIV certainly shows no interest in the fact they air the Cowboys.

Fox is not going to leave Houston. It is the 6th largest media market and the 4th largest city in the U.S. The population in southeast Texas is still booming here and shows no signs of slowing down. No matter what Shaq may tell you, this ain't no little town.

 

[Morgan Wick]

FOX can negotiate tribune to buy KCPQ/KZJO Seattle/Tacoma and KTVI/KPLR St. Louis. As for San Francisco, they can negotiate either KTVU/KICU or KRON. Just a curiosity, why did FOX give away KTVI FOX 2 St. Louis? If KTVI is the station for the St. Louis Rams.

KTVI and the others Fox sold were just a single stations

And that also included WITI in Milwaukee. By the logic in the original post, they shouldn't have given that away with the widespread popularity of the Packers.

those stations were outside the Top 20 markets

...and Memphis and Austin are even further outside...

And Charlotte is EVEN FURTHER outside than that.

Erm, I'm pretty sure Charlotte is closer to Milwaukee than Memphis or Austin...

 

[nomadcowatbk]

KRIV would stay with Fox both because the network has made a large investment on that station's studios as a production hub for syndicated programming for Twentieth (even if it's just court shows), and also because they might not have the Texans but they have the next best thing; the Cowboys, which they take by near default. No way they give up KRIV.

How often do they air the Cowboys? No station in Houston carries Cowboys pre-season games

 

[bpatrick]

Theoretically, Fox could pick up two Cox-owned stations
in NFC markets; besides KIRO there's KTVU Oakland/San
Francisco (49ers), and Fox is the only one of the big four
networks without an o&o in San Francisco.

There's NO WAY that CBS will give up KIRO 7 as an affiliate. In fact dare I say they'd rather give up KSTW 11 as a CW O&O to Fox & move the CW to Q13 before giving up KIRO 7 as a CBS affiliate

JMO.....

Cheers & 73 ;D

Note I said "theoretically," which doesn't guarantee that KIRO would become a Fox o&o; they've been through one short-lived affiliation switch (CBS to UPN), nor does it mean that KTVU would become a Fox o&o. Theoretically, Fox could switch from WAGA to WSB, but there's not a snowball's chance you-know-where that ABC would give up WSB as its Atlanta affiliate (plus the fact that Cox is not going to sell its flagship), and I suspect that WAGA is quite profitable for Fox. All of this is just a matter of considering the possibilities; nothing guarantees that either KIRO or KTVU would become Fox o&os. Just as theoretically, KSTW and KRON could become Fox o&os. We'll just have to wait and see.