FOX-TV AFFILIATION IN SAN DIEGO

[Garrett]

Re: Fox 5 San Diego

I'm not sure why I'm so interested in this... but...

Fox 5 San Diego promos are now airing on KSWB 69/5. You can see a screenshot on wikipedia.

When will we learn where The CW will land??? Bash it all you want, but The CW is Fox ten years ago. IMHO.

Cheers.

Oh... I think that Fox 5 should revert to the old calls... KTTY, Fox 5 San Diego. Huh??? ;D

Interesting, indeed! It seems weird that they'd be promoting Fox 5 already when Fox is still on 6, and its several months away!

I agree with you about CW! Same could probably be said for MNTV too.

As for 5 reverting to KTTY, not sure if that'd be the best move, since KTTY is more associated with "69," and I think they are trying to get away from that. I wonder if they could be KSDF. I think "KFSD" might be a challenge, since that's also the calls of the famous radio stations.

Yeah, I'm curious about CW and about XETV, but I bet they just throw CW on a Subchannel of 5/69. I have a feeling XETV is done.

 

[Markxxx]

If they throw the CW on a subchannel what happens when FOX runs high def like Sunday Football. The high def takes up all the channel. OK you can run high def and another channel but it makes both channels look bad. Down the road they might be able to do this but not now.

 

[FightingIrish]

If they throw the CW on a subchannel what happens when FOX runs high def like Sunday Football. The high def takes up all the channel. OK you can run high def and another channel but it makes both channels look bad. Down the road they might be able to do this but not now.

FOX only runs 720p for their HD. Does this give them enough space to run a subchannel? I do know some FOX affiliates do have subchannels with secondary network affiliations.

And there's a CBS affiliate in my market that has two subchannels with full programming content. It does all seem somewhat crammed in, but the CBS HD OTA digital signal doesn't seem to have any problems. The second subchannel (a low-power independent sister station) looks good. The third, which is temporarily running retro TV shows, breaks up, loses sound and pixelates once in a while.

 

[azumanga]

Re: Fox 5 San Diego

I'm not sure why I'm so interested in this... but...
Fox 5 San Diego promos are now airing on KSWB 69/5. You can see a screenshot on wikipedia.

Interesting, indeed! It seems weird that they'd be promoting Fox 5 already when Fox is still on 6, and its several months away!

XETV's operators, Entravision, doesn't like this one bit -- they're now suing Fox for breach of contract, as XETV's contract with Fox does not expire until 2010, and that they didn't even know about what was going on until the KSWB decision was made public:

http://radiomatthew.com/posts/xetv-kswb-battle-for-fox-affiliation-in-san-diego/

 

[TedL]

cw6tv.com is for a current Fort Myers CW affiliate

I'm not sure if it's at all related, but I just found...

www.cw6tv.com

There's a logo and a 'website coming soon'

Could it be that the networks are just trading channels? I suppose this would be the best scenario as both KSWB and XETV are already on the cable systems and already have digital signals. XETV, The CW 6 has a nice ring to it. I think KSWB should change calls though...

The cw6tv.com website is attached to Ft. Myers, Florida CW station WXCW (46 analog/45 digital) which is carried on cable channel 6 by many systems. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WXCW

WXCW is owned by Sun Broadcasting, but the domain registration for cw6tv.com appears to be handled by WINK-TV, the CBS affiliate in the same market: http://whois.domaintools.com/cw6tv.com

WINK operates WXCW under a shared services agreement: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WINK-TV

 

[w9wi]

FOX only runs 720p for their HD. Does this give them enough space to run a subchannel? I do know some FOX affiliates do have subchannels with secondary network affiliations.

720p has fewer lines of resolution but updates them more often, when compared to 1080i. So the bandwidth is pretty much a wash.

OK you can run high def and another channel but it makes both channels look bad. Down the road they might be able to do this but not now.

It's widely done. Here in Nashville at least four stations are running one HD and one SD and that situation is not at all unusual in other markets. In some of the smaller area markets I've seen one HD and *two* SDs -- two area stations are ABC on -1, Fox on -2, and CW on -3.

Point being if KSWB management feels it makes economic sense to run Fox on 69-1 and CW on 69-2, they WILL do it.

 

[Garrett]

Re: Fox 5 San Diego

I'm not sure why I'm so interested in this... but...
Fox 5 San Diego promos are now airing on KSWB 69/5. You can see a screenshot on wikipedia.

Interesting, indeed! It seems weird that they'd be promoting Fox 5 already when Fox is still on 6, and its several months away!

XETV's operators, Entravision, doesn't like this one bit -- they're now suing Fox for breach of contract, as XETV's contract with Fox does not expire until 2010, and that they didn't even know about what was going on until the KSWB decision was made public:

http://radiomatthew.com/posts/xetv-kswb-battle-for-fox-affiliation-in-san-diego/

This is slightly off topic, but I just realized, Entravision also owns a station here in Lubbock TX! - KBZO-LP 51/Univision . They also already run a CW somewhere else. Makes you wonder if they won't just take 6 spanish after all? They could also move MyTV over, since 6 has name recognition and My13/49, well not so much!

Fox affiliation, always so litigious in San Diego!

 

[dhett]

The overwhelming majority of Entravision's stations are either Univision or Telefutura. Will the SD market get a full-power Univision station? And if so, what do they do with current Univision station KBNT 17, which they also own? Supplement the current Telefutura broadcast on their station KDTF 36? (Although a KBNT/KDTF combo is mostly redundant.)

Or could they stop KSWB from taking over the Fox affiliation until 2010?

The speculation could be endless.

 

[Markxxx]

I guess they have made advances in HDTV technology with running more than one channel. I wasn't aware of this, thanks for the update.

Does anyone know if the FCC still enforces the rule about spliting networks. Like in the late 60s ABC was often on UHF and ABC still prefered to have TWO secondary affiliations on VHF channels which were primary NBC and CBS stations and secondary ABC. Then the FCC said, "if there is a TV station that wants the affiliation in the market, the network as to give it to them."

This helped a lot of UHF channels get over the hump and get and ABC affiliation (or other network).

It was a slight twist of that rule that got ABC off of XETV in the 70s.

I wonder if that would apply, if any other station wanted the CW, I'm not sure if the CW is a network as ruled by FCC standards, I know they changed that a lot.

Anyone know if anything like this exists still and if so would it apply?

 

[FightingIrish]

I guess they have made advances in HDTV technology with running more than one channel. I wasn't aware of this, thanks for the update.

Does anyone know if the FCC still enforces the rule about spliting networks. Like in the late 60s ABC was often on UHF and ABC still prefered to have TWO secondary affiliations on VHF channels which were primary NBC and CBS stations and secondary ABC. Then the FCC said, "if there is a TV station that wants the affiliation in the market, the network as to give it to them."

This helped a lot of UHF channels get over the hump and get and ABC affiliation (or other network).

It was a slight twist of that rule that got ABC off of XETV in the 70s.

I wonder if that would apply, if any other station wanted the CW, I'm not sure if the CW is a network as ruled by FCC standards, I know they changed that a lot.

Anyone know if anything like this exists still and if so would it apply?

The CW passed up the Class A (low power) UPN affiliate in Cincinnati to affiliate with WKRC via a subchannel.

In Roanoke, VA, full-powered WDRL, which had once been UPN, then later WB, was passed up by both CW and MNTV, both of which opted to affiliate with subchannels of stronger stations.

That's about all I've heard. I do know that the CW stations in Honolulu and Las Vegas came later, since nobody else wanted them.

 

[tripinva]

WDRL might as well be a low-powered station. The owner is bankrupt, the station covers more of the Greensboro DMA than the Roanoke DMA, and their so-called "full market" digital signal is received by absolutely nobody that I've been in contact with. I get some signal, but never enough to decode.

Their LP station that actually covered Roanoke went off the air years ago and was supposedly sold, but they operate (haven't seen it recently though) an on-channel repeater that I cannot find a license for beginning in 2003 or so.

I can't imagine CW seriously considering passing up XETV, a strong VHF station with programming and an established news department, over a subchannel on KSWB which has no pre-existing programming or recognition. Especially since XETV would do HD while a subchannel would not.

- Trip

 

[w9wi]

I guess they have made advances in HDTV technology with running more than one channel. I wasn't aware of this, thanks for the update.

Really it's been possible since the beginning. Newer multiplexers can do a better job by dynamically splitting the bandwidth depending on the particular programming in progress. (a station broadcasting a HD image of an anchor reading basketball scores requires a lot less bandwidth than one broadcasting a fast break)

Does anyone know if the FCC still enforces the rule about spliting networks. Like in the late 60s ABC was often on

I don't see anything that would prohibit this practice today. (but I'm an engineer, not a lawyer) There is a rule that requires a network to allow an unaffiliated station to take any network programs that aren't carried by the primary affiliate.

I would think that as long as KSWB were to carry *all* the CW programs on 69-2, CW wouldn't be required to offer them to XETV. (for that matter, I'm unclear as to whether XETV would have standing to complain. For many purposes at the FCC, foreign stations don't exist. Pretty much the only reason the FCC cares about XETV is because they won't authorize any U.S. station that would interfere with reception of XETV **in Mexico**. Interference in the U.S., they don't care.

I don't have the policy handy but I'm pretty sure CW is not a "network" under the definition in the FCC regs.

 

[Garrett]

CW, MyNetworkTV, Ion, and yes, even Fox, are not regulated as "networks" by the FCC because they program just under the weekly hours currently required to fall under that definition. Fox prefers this for business purposes (taxes, etc). That's why Fox only has 3 hours of programs per night, instead of the 4 that NBC, CBS and ABC have.

 

[TedL]

Hours programmed by Fox, and the historical context.

CW, MyNetworkTV, Ion, and yes, even Fox, are not regulated as "networks" by the FCC because they program just under the weekly hours currently required to fall under that definition. Fox prefers this for business purposes (taxes, etc). That's why Fox only has 3 hours of programs per night, instead of the 4 that NBC, CBS and ABC have.

I think you mean two hours a night for Fox, etc and three hours a night for the three other networks.

How programming two hours a night benefits Fox tax-wise bears explaining.

RE: How many hours the smaller nets program:

Recall that when Fox first started up, the Fox-owned stations were former Metromedia stations... independents that may have had 10 pm news broadcasts, often successful ones, and "Prime Time" for them was 8 p.m. to 10 p.m.

I'd think that Cox-owned affiliate KTVU, Oakland would have had second thoughts about joining up with a network that would have required bumping its long-successful "Ten O'Clock News" into competition with ABC, CBS and NBC affiliates KGO-TV, KPIX, and KRON.

For Fox, it was a practical choice to program two hours and fit into the existing "independent" evening programming structure: Less costly with one hour a night less than the other networks, and as a start-up easer to finding or developing competitive programs, either from suppliers that the other networks also had access to, or from newcomers to the programming supply business.

You'll also recall that Fox didn't start out with a full five-night a week schedule... and its first program was the Late Show with Joan Rivers, a 5-night 11 p.m. strip.

Fox incrementally built a full seven-day schedule of programs.

That said, what are the networks' revenue and profits like?

That's the more telling information.

Ted.

 

[azumanga]

Re: Hours programmed by Fox, and the historical context.

Recall that when Fox first started up, the Fox-owned stations were former Metromedia stations... "Prime Time" for them was 8 p.m. to 10 p.m.

And for most of those Metromedia stations before the start of Fox, prime time for them merely consisted of a magazine or game show at 8PM/7 Central, followed by Merv Griffin at 8:30PM/7:30PM CT.

 

[Garrett]

Re: Hours programmed by Fox, and the historical context.

CW, MyNetworkTV, Ion, and yes, even Fox, are not regulated as "networks" by the FCC because they program just under the weekly hours currently required to fall under that definition. Fox prefers this for business purposes (taxes, etc). That's why Fox only has 3 hours of programs per night, instead of the 4 that NBC, CBS and ABC have.

I think you mean two hours a night for Fox, etc and three hours a night for the three other networks.

Ah, yes... Sorry for my fuzzy math!
2hrs v. 3.

 

[Garrett]

Uh Oh, just 2 months out and still no word on XETV 6 will become...

Tick, tock...tick, tock...tick,tock...

 

[Garrett]

Chris just posted the latest promos from KSWB on the switch to Fox on his website (via youtube) on http://www.sdradio.net (thanks Chris!).
From the looks of it, it seems that they have changed logos. Originally it seems they were going to go with the current Fox 6 logo. Now, it seems they have switched to a Fox O & O corporate logo, similar to those used by Fox 11 in LA, Fox 5 in NY, etc.
I wonder why this is...?

 

[FightingIrish]

Chris just posted the latest promos from KSWB on the switch to Fox on his website (via youtube) on http://www.sdradio.net (thanks Chris!).
From the looks of it, it seems that they have changed logos. Originally it seems they were going to go with the current Fox 6 logo. Now, it seems they have switched to a Fox O & O corporate logo, similar to those used by Fox 11 in LA, Fox 5 in NY, etc.
I wonder why this is...?

I'm not much of a fan of the FOX O&O logo. It's kinda ugly, but perhaps it just needs to grow on me. A few stations seemed to do it right, and some stations' logos look just plain hideous. The new KSWB one looks decent, though. Many of the rest look rather unbalanced.

I noticed there's one O&O (WITI in Milwaukee) that opted for a different logo than the stacked one. Instead of the vertical logo, last fall, they retooled the horizontal one they've been using for a few years. It looks good.

You can see it here (though it looks slightly different on-air):

http://www.newscorp.com/operations/TVStations/WITI-6-LEGAL-C.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WITI_(TV)

 

[ncountysurf]

and now XETV is running promos for 'San Diego 6' Same station, same news, different name. It's a little funny because they start by sort of kicking the Fox 6 logo off the screen. The San Diego 6 logo is pretty good.