CBS blew up two Free-FM stations today, one in San Diego and the other in Phoenix, AZ. Why in the heck did we just get The Zone in Pittsburgh when CBS has given up on the format in other markets? I just don't understand corporate radio.
-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Free Fm
- Thread starter SteelRocker
- Start date
R
Radio_Realist
Guest
Why in the heck did we just get The Zone in Pittsburgh
Because Pittsburgh is Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh isn't San Diego, and Pittsburgh isn't Phoenix.
Why do frozen perogies sell well at in Pittsburgh, and you can't even find them in the grocery stores in San Diego or Phoenix? Why do San Diego and Phoenix have Spanish language radio and television stations, while Pittsburgh has none? Why are there brokered polka music shows on Pittsburgh radio, but no brokered polka music shows on stations in San Diego or Phoenix? Why do heavy winter coats sell well in Pittsburgh but not in San Diego or Phoenix?
I just don't understand corporate radio.
I just don't understand people who can't tell the difference between Pittsburgh and San Diego or Phoenix.
Because Pittsburgh is Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh isn't San Diego, and Pittsburgh isn't Phoenix.
Why do frozen perogies sell well at in Pittsburgh, and you can't even find them in the grocery stores in San Diego or Phoenix? Why do San Diego and Phoenix have Spanish language radio and television stations, while Pittsburgh has none? Why are there brokered polka music shows on Pittsburgh radio, but no brokered polka music shows on stations in San Diego or Phoenix? Why do heavy winter coats sell well in Pittsburgh but not in San Diego or Phoenix?
I just don't understand corporate radio.
I just don't understand people who can't tell the difference between Pittsburgh and San Diego or Phoenix.
Radio_Realist said:Why in the heck did we just get The Zone in Pittsburgh
Because Pittsburgh is Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh isn't San Diego, and Pittsburgh isn't Phoenix.
Why do frozen perogies sell well at in Pittsburgh, and you can't even find them in the grocery stores in San Diego or Phoenix? Why do San Diego and Phoenix have Spanish language radio and television stations, while Pittsburgh has none? Why are there brokered polka music shows on Pittsburgh radio, but no brokered polka music shows on stations in San Diego or Phoenix? Why do heavy winter coats sell well in Pittsburgh but not in San Diego or Phoenix?
I just don't understand corporate radio.
I just don't understand people who can't tell the difference between Pittsburgh and San Diego or Phoenix.
I'm very sorry I posted last night. I never expected such a condescending reply. Have a nice day.
I don't work in radio and thought my question was legitimate since the format has proven to be failing elsewhere and they tout it here.
R
Radio_Realist
Guest
I don't work in radio and thought my question was legitimate
The question was legitimate, but the answer should have been so obvious that it wouldn't matter if one worked in radio or not to see the answer without having to ask. If anything, someone who didn't work in radio should be more capable of seeing simple reality without being blinded by too many years of accepting industry "conventional wisdom" without ever questioning it.
As for my reply being "condescending", it's hard to write a "well, Duh!" answer without it coming across that way.
The question was legitimate, but the answer should have been so obvious that it wouldn't matter if one worked in radio or not to see the answer without having to ask. If anything, someone who didn't work in radio should be more capable of seeing simple reality without being blinded by too many years of accepting industry "conventional wisdom" without ever questioning it.
As for my reply being "condescending", it's hard to write a "well, Duh!" answer without it coming across that way.
F
feeball
Guest
More importantly, other than the geographics coming into play, CBS Radio really does want to see at least some of these stations become profitable. San Diego and Phoenix were being beaten worse than a red-headed stepchild and after more than close to 18 months of near the bottom numbers, a change had to be made. If this time next year The Zone fails to deliver like most of the Free FM stations, then it's bye-bye time.
F
feeball
Guest
Snafu said:So long as the present management team is there they will try and make The Zone work. Its their baby, their 'brilliant idea' and they aren't going to give up on it unless the suits in New York throw them out in the street.
I think current management in Pittsburgh knows the exact time table given to The Zone. With the exception of Y108's numbers, I am really surprised that Keith Clark and Ryan Mill still have a job in Pittsburgh since the other stations have torpedoed in numbers. It should have been "off to Wheeling with you two" a long time ago.
F
feeball
Guest
I will go out on a limb and say a 16 month timetable was given by corporate. Seriously, does anyone really think that Keith Clark and Ryan Mill have any say in anything that does not relate to talent? No. All of the shots are coming in from corporate and all Clark and Mill are doing is overseeing that the talent gets assembled. The Zone is not CBS Radio in Pittsburgh's "baby" as eluded to in a previous post on this thread, it is CBS Radio corporate's Free FM "baby" wearing a different diaper.
feeball said:it is CBS Radio corporate's Free FM "baby" wearing a different diaper.
That's a good way of putting it.
Regarding your earlier post, feeball, no one's trying to gang up on you or anything insofar about why Free FM has tanked elsewhere, but CBS has put it on the air here despite its dismal failures.
I thought the question was legitimate. Though the ethnic makeup of San Diego and that of Pittsburgh is like night and day, the essence remains the same, that they are both conservative markets with an older population base. While you won't find "Arn City", chip-chopped ham, winter wear, Dick Tady CD's, or other forms of Pittsburgh culture, the fact of the matter is, you have two population demos that are conservative minded on the top end of the 25-54 target.
Here's the sway vote with SD...non-Hispanic whites make up only 42 percent of that city's population. More than a quarter are Hispanic, and Blacks make up 18 percent, with Pacific Islanders making up about 10 percent. That kind of ethnic diversity doesn't exist in Pittsburgh. This is a format targeted primarily to a male Caucasian audience, which you do have here in Pittsburgh. Thus, the Free FM format has a better chance of success here. I believe CBS has adopted "The Zone" moniker to disassociate itself from the failures it has had as "Free FM" in other markets. Or, as you alluded to earlier, "a baby in a different diaper".
F
feeball
Guest
Reading my previous post I can see where it might come across that I was on the offensive, but really I wasn't.
I was stating what is believed that Ryan Mill and Keith Clark are not decision makers for the stations in Pittsburgh, they're puppets. The only thing corporate wants them to do is follow corporate mandates, assemble talent for the stations, and follow through with whatever other corporate policies or ideas that come into existence.
As long as the Pittsburgh market is corporate driven by both Clear Channel and CBS Radio, this is what can be expected. Bad ideas, bad sounding radio, cheap programming, and format concepts that are abused children in other markets becoming babies with different diapers in Pittsburgh.
I was stating what is believed that Ryan Mill and Keith Clark are not decision makers for the stations in Pittsburgh, they're puppets. The only thing corporate wants them to do is follow corporate mandates, assemble talent for the stations, and follow through with whatever other corporate policies or ideas that come into existence.
As long as the Pittsburgh market is corporate driven by both Clear Channel and CBS Radio, this is what can be expected. Bad ideas, bad sounding radio, cheap programming, and format concepts that are abused children in other markets becoming babies with different diapers in Pittsburgh.
Was away for a couple days and just now able to read the thread since my last post. Obviously I don't belong in this forum. I guess my point is it appears CBS doesn't know how to run a FREE-FM station and yet they put one in Pittsburgh. My guess it won't last long in Pittsburgh either, of course what do I know.Radio_Realist said:I don't work in radio and thought my question was legitimate
The question was legitimate, but the answer should have been so obvious that it wouldn't matter if one worked in radio or not to see the answer without having to ask. If anything, someone who didn't work in radio should be more capable of seeing simple reality without being blinded by too many years of accepting industry "conventional wisdom" without ever questioning it.
As for my reply being "condescending", it's hard to write a "well, Duh!" answer without it coming across that way.
R
Radio_Realist
Guest
I guess my point is it appears CBS doesn't know how to run a FREE-FM station and yet they put one in Pittsburgh.
Your point was clear, but it is probably wrong. Free-FM didn't fail in the two cities you mentioned because it wasn't done well. It failed because it was the wrong format for those markets. There are lots of formats that are extremely well executed that fail anyway.
Surely you've heard the idea that for success, you need the right thing in the right place at the right time. If one of those three is wrong, then you have failure. If you open an pork BBQ restaurant in a Muslim neighborhood, it's not going to do much local business, and will probably fail. That failure doesn't prove that a pork BBQ restaurant won't work in a different neighborhood. It only proves that it didn't work in the neighborhood where no one ate pork.
Obviously I don't belong in this forum.
If you are so thin skinned that having someone disagree with you causes you such distress that you cannot cope, then perhaps participating in discussion forums in general isn't your best choice for internet recreation. There's nothing wrong with having a low threshold for being offended. It simply means one must be a little more careful to avoid controversy.
Your point was clear, but it is probably wrong. Free-FM didn't fail in the two cities you mentioned because it wasn't done well. It failed because it was the wrong format for those markets. There are lots of formats that are extremely well executed that fail anyway.
Surely you've heard the idea that for success, you need the right thing in the right place at the right time. If one of those three is wrong, then you have failure. If you open an pork BBQ restaurant in a Muslim neighborhood, it's not going to do much local business, and will probably fail. That failure doesn't prove that a pork BBQ restaurant won't work in a different neighborhood. It only proves that it didn't work in the neighborhood where no one ate pork.
Obviously I don't belong in this forum.
If you are so thin skinned that having someone disagree with you causes you such distress that you cannot cope, then perhaps participating in discussion forums in general isn't your best choice for internet recreation. There's nothing wrong with having a low threshold for being offended. It simply means one must be a little more careful to avoid controversy.
If you are so thin skinned that having someone disagree with you causes you such distress that you cannot cope, then perhaps participating in discussion forums in general isn't your best choice for internet recreation. There's nothing wrong with having a low threshold for being offended. It simply means one must be a little more careful to avoid controversy.
Whatever Realist. Obviously you are much wiser than I ever can hope to be. I'll remember this thread when the next 93.7 format comes along.
Anyway, other than Dennis in the morning and Dave at night, I don't give The Zone much of a chance in Pittsburgh, because the rest of the lineup is just not happening.
R
Radio_Realist
Guest
I don't give The Zone much of a chance in Pittsburgh, because the rest of the lineup is just not happening.
Whatever you say, oh wise one. Clearly, you present a compelling argument to support your assertions. How could anyone disagree with your well-reasoned logic? Your examples and illustrations certainly serve to support your position.
Whatever you say, oh wise one. Clearly, you present a compelling argument to support your assertions. How could anyone disagree with your well-reasoned logic? Your examples and illustrations certainly serve to support your position.
Radio_Realist said:I don't give The Zone much of a chance in Pittsburgh, because the rest of the lineup is just not happening.
Whatever you say, oh wise one. Clearly, you present a compelling argument to support your assertions. How could anyone disagree with your well-reasoned logic? Your examples and illustrations certainly serve to support your position.
I'll take the lead and end this. You win.
All right Rocker and Realist...let's not mess the place up here. There's enough room for everyone on this board.
Feeball...I wouldn't be so quick to throw the baby out with the bath water as far as CBS' failures. CBS has also had its successes as well. Though Free FM is tanking in many markets, don't forget that Jammin' Oldies was also a short-lived format. I personally cranked up my radio as high as it could go when 104.7 made the switch to Jammin' Oldies, but the reality was, it, like Free FM, spiked, then fell.
The fact that it is a corporation that's making these decisions isn't what's killing the format. It's just that it died quick in some markets, and it may be the case here. Time will tell. This same trend is already happening with the "Jack" formats in some markets. It too will die, but maybe not as quickly as Free FM.
Feeball...I wouldn't be so quick to throw the baby out with the bath water as far as CBS' failures. CBS has also had its successes as well. Though Free FM is tanking in many markets, don't forget that Jammin' Oldies was also a short-lived format. I personally cranked up my radio as high as it could go when 104.7 made the switch to Jammin' Oldies, but the reality was, it, like Free FM, spiked, then fell.
The fact that it is a corporation that's making these decisions isn't what's killing the format. It's just that it died quick in some markets, and it may be the case here. Time will tell. This same trend is already happening with the "Jack" formats in some markets. It too will die, but maybe not as quickly as Free FM.
R
Radio_Realist
Guest
It too will die, but maybe not as quickly as Free FM.
What gets me is everyone being so concerned about the Free FM brand name. "Free FM" is nothing more than a brand name for non-political and non-sports talk radio. Free FM is the 21st century equivalent of the old NBC "Monitor". It's the old ABC "Breakfast Club". It's throwback radio, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Entertainment based non-music programming relies heavily on the individuals on the air. No one questions the fact that in music programming, some acts go over well, and some don't. Some songs are hits, some are misses. No one would argue that because 8 out of ten cuts on an album were not hits and never get airplay, the two cuts that were hits are also failures.
In talk formats, the talker is the content. The difference is that the talker has to be entertaining for the entire show. Howard Stern was very successful with his morning talk show when he was on regular radio. But look at how many Stern imitators never made it even on a strictly local level.
Maybe McIntyre & Gab won't catch on. Personally, I like the show. I never listened to McIntyre when he did politics. I had no preconceived notions of what to expect from him. I also never heard of Gab whatshername. And she is also funny. Maybe my opinion is in a really small minority. I don't know.
Has anyone here ever gone to a comedy club's open mic night? I'll bet that if you did, you saw a lot of losers and maybe one or two comedians who were funny. So does the fact that most comedians aren't really all that funny mean that stand-up comedy as a format for night club entertainment will never work?
Most rock bands really stink. (I almost said [edit], but that would have been edited.) Those of you in music radio know what I'm talking about. Music directors used to get barraged with new recordings for consideration for airplay, and most of them never got on the air. Some of them got on the air, but never climbed above the mid-30's. Does that mean that a format of playing songs on the air will never work?
Why does everyone in radio have to keep thinking in teeny, tiny little format boxes? Is there no one working in radio who can see beyond brand-name formats?
What gets me is everyone being so concerned about the Free FM brand name. "Free FM" is nothing more than a brand name for non-political and non-sports talk radio. Free FM is the 21st century equivalent of the old NBC "Monitor". It's the old ABC "Breakfast Club". It's throwback radio, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Entertainment based non-music programming relies heavily on the individuals on the air. No one questions the fact that in music programming, some acts go over well, and some don't. Some songs are hits, some are misses. No one would argue that because 8 out of ten cuts on an album were not hits and never get airplay, the two cuts that were hits are also failures.
In talk formats, the talker is the content. The difference is that the talker has to be entertaining for the entire show. Howard Stern was very successful with his morning talk show when he was on regular radio. But look at how many Stern imitators never made it even on a strictly local level.
Maybe McIntyre & Gab won't catch on. Personally, I like the show. I never listened to McIntyre when he did politics. I had no preconceived notions of what to expect from him. I also never heard of Gab whatshername. And she is also funny. Maybe my opinion is in a really small minority. I don't know.
Has anyone here ever gone to a comedy club's open mic night? I'll bet that if you did, you saw a lot of losers and maybe one or two comedians who were funny. So does the fact that most comedians aren't really all that funny mean that stand-up comedy as a format for night club entertainment will never work?
Most rock bands really stink. (I almost said [edit], but that would have been edited.) Those of you in music radio know what I'm talking about. Music directors used to get barraged with new recordings for consideration for airplay, and most of them never got on the air. Some of them got on the air, but never climbed above the mid-30's. Does that mean that a format of playing songs on the air will never work?
Why does everyone in radio have to keep thinking in teeny, tiny little format boxes? Is there no one working in radio who can see beyond brand-name formats?
Radio_Realist said:It too will die, but maybe not as quickly as Free FM.
What gets me is everyone being so concerned about the Free FM brand name. "Free FM" is nothing more than a brand name for non-political and non-sports talk radio. Free FM is the 21st century equivalent of the old NBC "Monitor". It's the old ABC "Breakfast Club". It's throwback radio, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Entertainment based non-music programming relies heavily on the individuals on the air. No one questions the fact that in music programming, some acts go over well, and some don't. Some songs are hits, some are misses. No one would argue that because 8 out of ten cuts on an album were not hits and never get airplay, the two cuts that were hits are also failures.
In talk formats, the talker is the content. The difference is that the talker has to be entertaining for the entire show. Howard Stern was very successful with his morning talk show when he was on regular radio. But look at how many Stern imitators never made it even on a strictly local level.
Maybe McIntyre & Gab won't catch on. Personally, I like the show. I never listened to McIntyre when he did politics. I had no preconceived notions of what to expect from him. I also never heard of Gab whatshername. And she is also funny. Maybe my opinion is in a really small minority. I don't know.
Has anyone here ever gone to a comedy club's open mic night? I'll bet that if you did, you saw a lot of losers and maybe one or two comedians who were funny. So does the fact that most comedians aren't really all that funny mean that stand-up comedy as a format for night club entertainment will never work?
Most rock bands really stink. (I almost said [edit], but that would have been edited.) Those of you in music radio know what I'm talking about. Music directors used to get barraged with new recordings for consideration for airplay, and most of them never got on the air. Some of them got on the air, but never climbed above the mid-30's. Does that mean that a format of playing songs on the air will never work?
Why does everyone in radio have to keep thinking in teeny, tiny little format boxes? Is there no one working in radio who can see beyond brand-name formats?
Because Realist, that's the reality of the business these days. Years ago, during radio's halcyon years, there were no set format guidelines as we knew them. Prior to television, radio was a program-oriented medium. Things like AM and PM drive didn't exist. You got comedies, mysteries and dramas on the radio. Then came television. When those programs moved to TV, radio was left wondering what to do next. The DJ concept was nothing new at the time...the presenter playing the music was basically a time-filler between programs. Radio execs then made that into a full-time job.
The out-of-the-box format concepts go all the way back to the 60's, when you had all these Boss Jocks who were pretty much playing what they wanted (within reason). The essence of the format was the same, but with a different twist depending on the market. Then in the 80's, people started branding...mostly PD's who were trying to advance their careers and touting what they thought was the next big thing. Because of this, you can find at least three different brands of country, probably six or more AC stations, and so on and so forth.
This is just one reason why radio is facing these challenges. You can only slice and dice a format so much. PD's aren't allowed anymore to base programming decisions on gut and know-how, but research.
- Status
- This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.