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Frequencies you've lost to HD on AM

D

dxho

Daytime, it's not too bad-
910 WRNL
950 WXGI
1140 WRVA
all have turned off IBOC at night
1500 WWWT DC 100 miles

Winter afternoons and such-
1060 KYW Philadephia 225 miles
1110 WBT Charlotte 260 miles
1210 WPHT Philadelphia
1660 WFNA Charlotte

Of course, it's worse at night overall. Four stations fill the band from 1020 to 1120
700 WLW 400 miles
720 WGN 600 miles
880 WCBS 300 miles
1030 WBZ 470 miles
1060 KYW
1080 WTIC 380 miles
1110 WBT
1180 WHAM 330 miles
1210 WPHT
1500 WWWT
1660 WFNA

So that's 22 channels, almost 20% of the band. I don't lose every sideband completely to noise, if there's a strong station in there, but it's not listenable.

Night time IBOC has had, for the larger stations, the effect of partially reinstating the clear channel rule- few stations can get past the interference.
 
here's my list from Ottawa Canada.
650,660,670,690,700,710,720,730,770,790,800,820,830,840,850,870,890,1010,1020,1040,1050,1070,1080,1090,1110,1170,1190,1200 is a local 50 thousand watter that has a faint hiss under it at times if I don't have the radio pointed the right way, 1220,1250,1270,1530 and 1550. All of these statios still get some hiss over top of them. There are times the hiss is bearabe, and others that it's impossible to hear anything.
 
Rochester, NY:

AM IBOC actually prevents me from listening to 3 stations that I want to hear. At night, I lose WYSL (1040, Avon, NY) and KDKA (1020) due to hash from WBZ. WYSL is a local that I listen to that has reduced power at night. I listen to KDKA because I have a son in Pittsburgh and want to know what's going on there. WHAM completely obliterates WWVA (1170) eliminating the all-night show that I used to tune into.

We have 3 locals running IBOC - WLGZ (990), WHAM (1180) and WHTK (1280). IBOC on 990 & 1180 are 24/7, 1280's IBOC is off at night. To me, nighttime AM IBOC is an abomination.
 
dxho said:
Daytime, it's not too bad-
910 WRNL
950 WXGI
1140 WRVA
all have turned off IBOC at night
1500 WWWT DC 100 miles

Winter afternoons and such-
1060 KYW Philadephia 225 miles
1110 WBT Charlotte 260 miles
1210 WPHT Philadelphia
1660 WFNA Charlotte

Of course, it's worse at night overall. Four stations fill the band from 1020 to 1120
700 WLW 400 miles
720 WGN 600 miles
880 WCBS 300 miles
1030 WBZ 470 miles
1060 KYW
1080 WTIC 380 miles
1110 WBT
1180 WHAM 330 miles
1210 WPHT
1500 WWWT
1660 WFNA

So that's 22 channels, almost 20% of the band. I don't lose every sideband completely to noise, if there's a strong station in there, but it's not listenable.

Night time IBOC has had, for the larger stations, the effect of partially reinstating the clear channel rule- few stations can get past the interference.
Click to expand...

Forgive me for my confusion ... are the latter stations (WLW, WGN, WHAM et al.) the ones you've lost to nighttime HD interference or the ones causing the problems? I would guess the former based on your location, because I could see WOR taking out both of them in Virginia.
WLW and WGN do the reverse in Ohio and the rest of the Midwest, at least in my experience.
That's ridiculous, as in unfortunate, reading about WBZ causing that much interference 800 miles away. I hope the FCC listens, as do people on here who consistently bash the likes of Bruce Carter for exposing IBOC for what it really is - a terribly flawed concept that isn't going to save the AM band, but has a better chance of being its final downfall.
 
schmave said:
Forgive me for my confusion ... are the latter stations (WLW, WGN, WHAM et al.) the ones you've lost to nighttime HD interference or the ones causing the problems? I would guess the former based on your location, because I could see WOR taking out both of them in Virginia.
WLW and WGN do the reverse in Ohio and the rest of the Midwest, at least in my experience.
That's ridiculous, as in unfortunate, reading about WBZ causing that much interference 800 miles away. I hope the FCC listens, as do people on here who consistently bash the likes of Bruce Carter for exposing IBOC for what it really is - a terribly flawed concept that isn't going to save the AM band, but has a better chance of being its final downfall.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I didn't word the topic clearly. I've lost upper and lower channels because of the listed stations, except for a few strong adjacents that are unlistenable as a result. For instance, WLAC at 1510 will break through WWWT's hash most of the time. But it's like listening in a jet or something.

I don't know if the FCC will listen- there's a lot of money already involved. But it ultimately may not make that much difference. AM is already the talk/religious/foreign language band, which means 'not mainstream' to me.
 
Days:(Dayton OH)

580-630 (still a weak WLAP) due to 610-WTVN
680-720 (WLW)..still can hear "All Swaggart, All the Time" from Bowling Green though
750-790 (WJR)
800-830 (WOSU, CKLW has buzz)
850 (WHAS)
1060-1080 (WIBC)
1180-1200 (WOWO)
1320-1360 (WIZE)
1520-1540 (WCKY
 
I have a local HD station on 1250 that blows out a wide swath of my AM band between 1210 and 1280.
That means I lose WKNR Cleveland, WBVP, Beaver, PA, WXYT, Detroit, and WKST, New Castle, PA. WPHT
is strong enough to fight under it at 1210 but it makes listening an unpleasant experience. I can't believe
that they get away with a splatter this wide. Fortunately they are the only local AM in my market that runs HD.
 
MarcB said:
Night Time: Thanks to 1080 WTIC's IBOC at night I can not listen to 1090 WBAL or the CBC station on 1070. They do however turn the IBOC off during The Husky Games (not sure about the Redsox). WBT/1110 is also harder to pick up because of someones IBOC. Not sure if it's because of 1080 or not.
Click to expand...

It's interesting to read these complaints because it seems that everyone's AM ox is getting gored here! In my case, I have to use a good radio (with a narrow band filter) in order to keep KYW's buzz from splattering all over WTIC. And some nights, it's quite challenging. Their buzz can stretch from 1040 through 1080, even on a very selective radio.

From west of Philly, the Ibuzz casualties are:

940 Montreal and 960 (thanks to WPEN 950)
1040 WHO, 1050 ESPN/CHUM, 1070 and 1080 WTIC (thanks to KYW)
1200 and 1220 (thanks to WPHT)
And often, 700 WLW and 720 WGN (thanks to WOR's hissfest)

Of all the Philly locals, only KYW has a solid nighttime signal in my area. The others are somewhat degraded - yet they still splash all over their adjacents. Once in a while, WBZ's buzz intrudes on KDKA - but it hasn't been nearly as bad as the complaints I see here. It probably whacks 1040 as well, but with KYW's hiss - who can tell which is which? Also, having Citadel shut this infernal system off at night has helped a lot. Too bad everyone else doesn't follow suit.

I would say that a good radio still gets sidebands +/- 20 kHz on either side of the main signal when the station is a local. This is despite what the IBOC proponents say (they fraudulently claim it's +/- 10 kHz). However, anything beyond that (like Freddy's experience) is probably the fault of an undisciplined radio tuner (filter set too wide).
 
1060 and 1080 are bad.

1100, 1110, and 1120 are severely impacted, though nulling can help.

Same thing with 830 through 860.

660, 680, 690, 730 too.

(All at night. None of my AM locals run IBOC)
 
schmave said:
I hope the FCC listens, as do people on here who consistently bash the likes of Bruce Carter for exposing IBOC for what it really is - a terribly flawed concept that isn't going to save the AM band, but has a better chance of being its final downfall.
Click to expand...

The thing that bothers me is - even though I can hear a great deal of hiss and buzz from this nonsense - I have yet to log a single instance of HD reception at night from one of the 50 kW monsters programming it. Not even nearby ones. So what is the reason for operating at night? What is the range out of one of these things at night? 30 miles? 10 miles? I can't imagine that they come even close to covering their city of license, much less any sort of skywave service. Yet I have documented these sidebands 1000 miles away in the DAYTIME with no special equipment, far after every trace of the analog signal is gone. I have no idea how far they go at night, simply because it is possible to hear the sideband pairs of every domestic station of any power running them! I wonder if there are any European listeners - or any foreign listeners on here - that have documented how far these things go at night?
 
I usually lose 720 (but WGN sometimes comes in) and 740 (WQTM Orlando), but since 730 is the only station with HD in Charleston, I don't have that many effects except at night.

On FM, however, we already have 94.3, 100.5, 102.5, 103.5, and 104.5 in HD, with several more coming, meaning many of my distant stations that I used to listen to are unavailable.

94.1 from Savannah still comes in, but I lose 94.5, 100.3, and 100.7 (before, Brunswick, GA most of the time). I also lost 102.3 and 102.7 (a good signal from WGNI in Wilmington most summer days), and with 104.5 having HD, I also lost 104.3 (often WBBQ in Augusta), and 104.7 (often WNOK in Columbia).
 
I live about 20 miles from WGN & WBBM's transmitters and I'm lucky if I can get either ones HD at night.
It usually goes in and out. I'm about 40 miles from the WLS tower and I never get the HD signal day or night.
 
Now that 1010 WINS has started running IBlOCk at night, the entire stretch from 1000 through 1090 is a mess in the Mid Atlantic states. The interference from 1010 actually creates hiss under normally-strong WBZ and it now makes reception of KDKA (1020) and WMVP (1000) impossible from eastern PA. Despite what is often said about WBZ, I could at least hear KDKA under their hiss at night. No more. And, WMVP tended to come in quite well thanks to a directional signal that sends much of their 50kw signal eastward. Again, no more.

Basically, it's hiss city from 1000 through 1090 and almost all of it is the fault of CBS Radio. And, I don't need one of these engineers-***-HD cheerleaders to come on here and tell me how the hiss is limited to 8 kHz and my radio is crap (or something along those lines). I'm using an AM-FM-SW radio with a switchable wide/narrow filter and in the narrow band setting I still get hiss on signals +/- 20 kHz on either side of the offender. With wide band, almost every frequency in that range is unlistenable (except KYW 1060 - which still gets audible faint hiss). The band has become a mess, just as predicted by the so-called "naysayers."

By the way, none of this noise helps my HD radio upstairs....still no AM HD on it. But, you can get the hiss. Great technology, this AM HD radio. ::)
 
Great topic to bring back up...

Since some stations have turned off the I-BLOCK since 2008, how many stations now can you no longer DX because of I-BLOCK from an adjacent channel station (or the station itself since the HD seems to affect the audible signal range of the station)?
 
Here's the AM stations whose reception is degraded or not receivable in my area during the daytime, and the station whose sidebands degrade it in parentheses. These stations were all listenable on good radios before IBOC.

WGR 550 (WRDT 560)
WKBN 570 (WRDT 560)
WSNL 600 (WTVN 610) Receivable but noisy, sounds weaker even though the signal is stronger.
WOWO 1190 (WCHB 1200)
WWMK 1260 (WXYT 1270)
WTRX 1330 (WEXL 1340)

Numerous stations are intermittently interfered with at night. Even though the Crawford stations are lower power, have directional antennas, and have limited HD range, their IBOC is almost never off.
 
Actually, a local IBOC signal can splatter over as much as +/- 30 kHz, even with a sharp tuner.

Here's what I observe about 20 miles away from WSCR and WBBM AM in Chicago:

+/- 10 kHz -- DEAFENING roar from digital sidebands-- much louder than the modulation peaks of the analog signal when center tuned

+/- 20 kHz -- Hideous SCREECH on any second adjacent station, and they do exist in many markets!

+/- 30 kHz -- "Ticks" and "Splats" that don't seem to be related, on a time basis, to anything.

I frankly don't understand how this abominable system ever, EVER got approval by the FCC. There must have been some money involved somewhere. Anyone with an engineering degree should have known this was never going to work.
 
1370 and 1390 (day/night) - KRKO HD.
1510 and 1530 (day/night) - KKXA HD. Hardly can hear KFBK 1530 anymore, and that's in every night! Ditto KGA.
Sometimes 1150/1170 are destroyed in some directions at night due to KSL HD.

-crainbebo
 
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