From John Gorman: Chew on this...

[nate81]

This actually came from the Feburary 1st Free Times. While any such talk can be easily refuted, Gorman makes great points, as usual. And for some reason, I have that Butch Davis "gut feeling" that something could be up here.

http://www.freetimes.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=3029

"Remember Opie and Anthony? Mike Trivisonno does. When the syndicated duo was added to WXTM (now WXRK) in 2002 opposite that sanctimonious gasbag on WTAM, they easily blindsided the portly one and created a seismic thud by knocking him out of first place. New Cleveland Clear Channel head Mike Kinney, who recently moved from Cincinnati, wasn’t here but heard all of the woeful tales on how Triv’s terrible tumble affected Clear Channel-owned WTAM’s bottom line.

The rotund one lucked out when a promotion-gone-wild resulted in a couple having sex inside New York’s St. Patrick’s Cathedral. That cost Opie and Anthony their afternoon-drive talk show nationally and allowed WTAM to regain the top spot.

Well-placed spies at Clear Channel report that Kinney’s pitching to create WTAM’s own competition by adding a talk format on one of the Cleveland FM stations under his watch. A direct talk competitor to Trivisonno would easily harpoon the wide whale’s ratings and revenue. By owning the competition, the ad revenue Triv could lose would still remain in Clear Channel coffers.

The station Kinney wants to flip to FM talk remains top secret. WMJI’s the logical choice. John Lanigan’s talk show owns morning-drive ratings in Cleveland, and his show is the top revenue biller in the state. Though WMJI does well in ratings, there’s growing concern that the station’s post-10 a.m. adult contemporary oldies format’s demographics are too old for many potential clients. It’s unlikely Clear Channel would switch one of its other FMs, save for WMVX, whose all-over-the-road format rarely cracks the top 10.

Kinney dreads rival CBS Radio putting its franchised FREE-FM “hot talk” format on one of its Cleveland FMs. He believes WNCX could flip, since morning-drive import David Lee Roth originates from CBS Radio’s FREE-FM station in New York. In most cities, CBS dumped rock for FM talk."

Talk of WMJI would be a surprise, indeed - and WMVX brought in Don Hallett to save themselves. But both stations, realistically, are horribly mediocre... considering the quality station WMJI was back in the 90's. And WMVX does nothing for me at all, what with a "we-play-everything-we-want-only-we're-not-named-Jack" format that got tired in a matter of days. Plus, Kat Jackson and Daune Robinson are greatly overused on both stations - sometimes at the same time.

But does CC want to siphon off WTAM's ratings (save for the lowly Springer- a bright Methany move) onto a sister all-talk FM station that would put out a far better product than the oafish Triv, Kevin "the Indians are GREAT!!!" Keane and C2C from 10pm on? This ain't WLW here, and Mike Kinney KNOWS IT.

Moreover, IS Cleveland actually ready for a FREE-FM - which is more "Hot talk" with Rover (DLR on there? Get real...), Penn Jillete, Jim Cramer and (on a West Coast basis) Phil Hendrie - or a CC FM talk station with Lanigan, Beck, Hannity, Savage and Hendrie?

I dunno. But it sure HAS to beat the crap on the air right now - especially with a WMJI so faded and tarnished under Popovich and Stevens (Hey, while I greatly respect them, they neither were or are "oldies" programmers - even with WMJI's ability to run all by itself) that it makes me want to scream.

Personally, anything that takes out Triv and the "s**tty intern" (sorry, "hot chick") Allison is fine with me. That's why I'm rooting for CBS to act first, and make WTAM look foolish, as always.

- Nathan Obral

(Post number #880 - dedicated to WCBS/880 New York!)

 

[vjm]

I always thought the approach Clear Channel had was to basically have non-descript voices on the FMs so Triv would win the PMD sweepstakes by default.

You know, kind of fluffing Triv up.

If anything, they might simulcast Triv onto WMJI so you have both Lanigan and Triv on the same station (with Action Jackson on 10a-3p with music).

 

[TopMan]

> Maybe most important are the dollars and cents issues John pointed out in his article.
After what few local shows might remain, "staffing" at these types of talk stations is a PC sitting in a rack, switching from one syndicated source to another.
And the station no longer has to pay ASCAP/BMI fees for the music, and these fees, since they are based on what a station bills, must be quite onerous for WMJI.
Add two more "oldies" stations that flipped to "talk" in the last few weeks, WCKY/1530 in Cincinnati and WWKB/1520 in Buffalo, and the trend seems clear. "Oldies" formats as we have known them are as doomed as big band, because even the costs that remain are too high and the demos are "too old".
That's funny, as they used to say that talk demos were bad because they were "too old".
This is another trend that will drive people to satellite radio. But, as CC and CBS reportedly have financial stakes in XM and Sirius, I imagine it doesn't really matter to them.

 

[network]

> But, as CC and CBS reportedly have financial stakes
> in XM and Sirius, I imagine it doesn't really matter to
> them.

I am not sure what percent of stakeholding CBS has, but Clear Channel, last I read, had less than 1% stock in Sirius.

 

[bigwoody]

> > Maybe most important are the dollars and cents issues John
> pointed out in his article.
> After what few local shows might remain, "staffing" at these
> types of talk stations is a PC sitting in a rack, switching
> from one syndicated source to another.
> And the station no longer has to pay ASCAP/BMI fees for the
> music, and these fees, since they are based on what a
> station bills, must be quite onerous for WMJI.

Actually, BMI/ASCAP has to do with the number of quarter hours the music is on. I just went thru the process with BMI/ASCAP.


Flipping WMJI is a dumb move. It's still the top billing station in the market. Milk it for all it's worth - ex: WCBS. Top 5 billing station in the U.S., then the flip to "JACK", now they'll be lucky to make half of what they billed as oldies. Wall Street/CBS stockholders won't like it when it comes time to add it all up.

IMO WMVX is the more ripe station. As GMan pointed out, that signal hasn't done squat since 2000. It came on as "MIX" in late '98. I think 8 years is enough..."cant't polish a turd". When Randy James left (original WMVX PD) he took the creativity with it. Nothing against Don Hallett.

I think FM Talk WOULD work; Mancow AM Drive, Beck middays, Don & Mike PM Drive, Loveline, Browns and Bucks football, even active or mainstream rock on weekends in some dayparts. Like WKRK/Detroit...only better, lol!
<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by bigwoody on 02/16/06 02:04 PM.</FONT></P>

 

[bigwoody]

> > But, as CC and CBS reportedly have financial stakes
> > in XM and Sirius, I imagine it doesn't really matter to
> > them.
>
> I am not sure what percent of stakeholding CBS has, but
> Clear Channel, last I read, had less than 1% stock in
> Sirius.
>


Honda is the highest stockholder in XM. Approx 17-18 percent.

Allegedlly CC pulled all investment from XM.

Not sure whom is the primary stockholder for Sirius.

 

[MarkW]

.
>
> I think FM Talk WOULD work; Mancow AM Drive, Beck middays,
> Don & Mike PM Drive, Loveline, Browns and Bucks football,
> even active or mainstream rock on weekends in some dayparts.
> Like WKRK/Detroit...only better, lol! (WKRK's signal IS a
> hinderance).
>

What are you talking about?

WKRK's signal is just as good or better than nearly every other FM station in the Detroit market.

Did you mean to say WXRK?

 

[adz]

> Kinney dreads rival CBS Radio putting its franchised FREE-FM
> “hot talk” format on one of its Cleveland FMs. He believes
> WNCX could flip, since morning-drive import David Lee Roth
> originates from CBS Radio’s FREE-FM station in New York. In
> most cities, CBS dumped rock for FM talk."

Roth is on borrowed time, as has been covered here..likely Adam Corolla will add markets by Labor Day..anybody knows what 'NCX bills? Would it be worth it?

Winter and Spring numbers are going to tell the tale regarding Free F-M..CBS could have a real disaster on their hands..or not..

> Moreover, IS Cleveland actually ready for a FREE-FM - which
> is more "Hot talk" with Rover (DLR on there? Get real...),
> Penn Jillete, Jim Cramer and (on a West Coast basis) Phil
> Hendrie - or a CC FM talk station with Lanigan, Beck,
> Hannity, Savage and Hendrie?

If you could use WTAM's newsroom, you'd spend almost nothing on programming, since C-C already owns it..and that's the point here..CBS could likely use Metro News, or use something voiced out of Cincy rewriting the Plain Dealer, or use its 19/43 newsroom..if they wanted news as part of the fix at all..
> >

 

[bigwoody]

> > Kinney dreads rival CBS Radio putting its franchised
> FREE-FM
> > “hot talk” format on one of its Cleveland FMs. He believes
>
> > WNCX could flip, since morning-drive import David Lee Roth
>
> > originates from CBS Radio’s FREE-FM station in New York.
> In
> > most cities, CBS dumped rock for FM talk."
>
> Roth is on borrowed time, as has been covered here..likely
> Adam Corolla will add markets by Labor Day..anybody knows
> what 'NCX bills? Would it be worth it?
>
> Winter and Spring numbers are going to tell the tale
> regarding Free F-M..CBS could have a real disaster on their
> hands..or not..
>
> > Moreover, IS Cleveland actually ready for a FREE-FM -
> which
> > is more "Hot talk" with Rover (DLR on there? Get real...),
>
> > Penn Jillete, Jim Cramer and (on a West Coast basis) Phil
> > Hendrie - or a CC FM talk station with Lanigan, Beck,
> > Hannity, Savage and Hendrie?
>
> If you could use WTAM's newsroom, you'd spend almost nothing
> on programming, since C-C already owns it..and that's the
> point here..CBS could likely use Metro News, or use
> something voiced out of Cincy rewriting the Plain Dealer, or
> use its 19/43 newsroom..if they wanted news as part of the
> fix at all.


WOIO would fit. Plus you get cross promotion with tv and an instant tv partner.

If needed there's WW1/CBS News off the bird. Afterall it's FM TALK, not FM NEWS TALK.

 

[dab1100]

Some random thoughts on this subject... First of all Gorman has an agenda. He's pissed off because he hasn't been able to keep a radio job for any length of time in the last ten years. He's bitter and blames "corporate radio," especially Clear Channel. So, please take his comments with a grain of salt when he tries to stir the pot to get a reader or two for that freebie rag he writes for.


> "Remember Opie and Anthony? Mike Trivisonno does. When the
> syndicated duo was added to WXTM (now WXRK) in 2002 opposite
> that sanctimonious gasbag on WTAM, they easily blindsided
> the portly one and created a seismic thud by knocking him
> out of first place. New Cleveland Clear Channel head Mike
> Kinney, who recently moved from Cincinnati, wasn’t here but
> heard all of the woeful tales on how Triv’s terrible tumble
> affected Clear Channel-owned WTAM’s bottom line.

Reality check... Trivisonno was edged out of first place in the Persons 12+ demo.... and by one tenth of a rating point. 12+ means nothing other than bragging rights. A one-handed man could count the number of times on his fingers that any agency buy was based on this number in the last 30 years. O&A never came close to Trivisonno in 25-54 which is the one that really counts.... and with 25-54 dominance, it's likely that WTAM's bottom line was affected not a bit.


> Well-placed spies at Clear Channel

Gimme a break. Why don't you be like Roger brown and start that sentence with "Word is..."

By owning the
> competition, the ad revenue Triv could lose would still
> remain in Clear Channel coffers.

Not a bad idea in itself. Clear Channel regularly competes with itself in the News/Talk format in many cities. They do it in Cincinnati, Columbus, and even Akron. With only one AM signal, CC would have to do it with an FM.

> WMJI’s the logical choice.
Sour grapes, John? While its audience is getting older, WMJI is still on its game. It does excellent numbers, both in the rating book and on the ledger sheet.

>It’s unlikely Clear Channel
> would switch one of its other FMs, save for WMVX, whose
> all-over-the-road format rarely cracks the top 10.

What is your basis of saying that? Blowing up a francise like WGAR would be insane, but any of the other stations could be in play IF such a move is being contemplated. Before blowing up WMJI, they could finally admit the truth and take The Buzzard off life support (where it has been since the early days of the Clinton Administration), as well as WAKS which is bottom-heavy with hard to sell teen numbers.


> Kinney dreads rival CBS Radio putting its franchised FREE-FM
> “hot talk” format on one of its Cleveland FMs. He believes
> WNCX could flip, since morning-drive import David Lee Roth
> originates from CBS Radio’s FREE-FM station in New York. In
> most cities, CBS dumped rock for FM talk."

True... WNCX could be a candidate to flip... as well as WQAL or WXRK. However, Roth is not the answer. Bad, Banal, Boring.

But both stations,> realistically, are horribly mediocre... considering the

> quality station WMJI was back in the 90's.
You mean when YOU were there, John?


> But does CC want to siphon off WTAM's ratings (save for the
> lowly Springer- a bright Methany move) onto a sister
> all-talk FM station...

Flipping an FM to talk is a perilous feat. It CAN work, but more often than not, it doesn't. Lots of stations that have tried have either been perennial cellar dwellers or just bombed completely.... WKRK Detroit (John, didn't you work there), WCKG Chicago, WNEW-FM New York, to name a couple. Those that do succeed, stations like WTKS Orlando, WPGB Pittsburgh, and WKXW Trenton, have generally done so without siphoning off a large numbers from their heritage AM competitor.

> Personally, anything that takes out Triv and the "s**tty
> intern" (sorry, "hot chick") Allison is fine with me. That's
> why I'm rooting for CBS to act first, and make WTAM look
> foolish, as always.

Bottom line.... CC may try it.... CBS may try it. Unlikely that either WMJI or WDOK will be blown up to do it. Unlikely that Trivisonno will miss a beat. Whoever does it and does it right, might fina an audience and have a strong biller.