FRUSTRATED BY ALL THE NEW LPFM/CLASS D TRANSLATORS

[wxman76]

This topic could go in several forums, but I posted this here as well as the DX/Reception Forum.

Driving around the country, I have noticed that there are a lot of new stations broadcasting at 250 watts or less, either as a Class D Translator or a LPFM. While I know that most people don't try to tune in out of market stations, but as a DXer this is starting to get out of control to me. I am not just talking about stations that are 100+ miles away though. For example in my market, there is a 250 watt class D that is at 97.9. It shares the same frequency as a Class C 100kW station that broadcasts at 2,000 feet above ground level that is 80 miles away. Even though its 80 miles away, with a signal THAT strong and goes out a long ways, what used to be a listenable signal on many radios has now been stomped on. The part that I don't get is why the FCC allowed the permit at 97.9 but not 92.7, a much more open frequency with no stations that regularly come in and no locals between 92.3 and 93.1.

A couple of questions:

Does the someone from the FCC actually visit the market to get an actual evaluation of what would be the best frequency to put these low power stations, or are they pretty casual and just go off of estimated dB contour maps?

I know some of you are big supporters of LP community radio, but in your opinion how much is too much? Is it too much when a local non-commercial station starts to step all over a moderate out of market commercial signal?

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Does the someone from the FCC actually visit the market to get an actual evaluation of what would be the best frequency to put these low power stations, or are they pretty casual and just go off of estimated dB contour maps?

It is not casual process. Contour maps are not estimated but are calculated. And if you prepare the application you will sign at the bottom that you are trained and capable of calculating accurately. Now, that being said, I live about about 50 miles from my favorite FM station. Every day as I leave the house and come to the 4-way stop two blocks away, I pay attention to the reception, the skip, the noise. It's different every day. Having someone from Washington come out here into the hills of North Georgia will tell them nothing. They would need to come back maybe 90 times over 365 days and then take an average. (And on each of those 90 trips stay and take readings at all hours of the day and night.) And some process like that is how someone created the math for the calculations.

For example in my market, there is a 250 watt class D that is at 97.9. It shares the same frequency as a Class C 100kW station that broadcasts at 2,000 feet above ground level that is 80 miles away. Even though its 80 miles away, with a signal THAT strong and goes out a long ways, what used to be a listenable signal on many radios has now been stomped on. The part that I don't get is why the FCC allowed the permit at 97.9 but not 92.7, a much more open frequency with no stations that regularly come in and no locals between 92.3 and 93.1.

Send me the calls of the two stations (use Personal Message feature here if you like) and I will look at the engineering details.

I know some of you are big supporters of LP community radio, but in your opinion how much is too much? Is it too much when a local non-commercial station starts to step all over a moderate out of market commercial signal?

Actually the limits on LPFM are probably a bit too tight right now. The bill to remove the 3rd adjacent channel restriction has passed the House, but I don't remember it going through the Senate yet.

LPFM probably should get a max of 250 watts just like the translator/booster stations do. However, how much is too much and too little is all a matter personal opinion. There is little or no logic one can use to prove that 50 watts, 100 watts, 250 watts, 500 watts or 666 watts is the obvious logical decision. All I can tell you is that I have been drafting some LPFM applications. They are touted to reach 3.5 miles. Depending on how you define COVERAGE, that is probably a bit exaggerated. In trying to pick a transmitter location to function in a couple of communities that interest me, I go on the assumption that I would get GOOD coverage out to TWO MILES. Pick your town, pick your village. Draw circles on the map with a two mile radius and say: Can I build and audience if only the people living or working in this circle has hear me?

Yes, if I put up an external receiving antenna about 30 feet up, maybe put an amplifier in the line, and then hook it up to a super receiver, maybe 7 or 8 miles.... if the receiver location is not down in a valley. Where do you go to buy a "super receiver" today?

What percentage of the American public does DX receiving? If I build a radio station can I hope to sell more advertising if I design my radio station so DXers can get it a few miles further out?

I enjoy picking up every last thing I can find on the dial when travelling. I end up with the opposite logic that you have. I hate it that they grant 100Kw to stations when 17 or 23 or 31KW would adequately serve their audience. The powerhouses keep me from picking up the station 20 to 40 miles either side of the Interstate as I travel.

Congress, the FCC and laws of Physics cannot make us all happy campers. ;D

 

[nmoore6676]

This topic could go in several forums, but I posted this here as well as the DX/Reception Forum.

Driving around the country, I have noticed that there are a lot of new stations broadcasting at 250 watts or less, either as a Class D Translator or a LPFM. While I know that most people don't try to tune in out of market stations, but as a DXer this is starting to get out of control to me. I am not just talking about stations that are 100+ miles away though. For example in my market, there is a 250 watt class D that is at 97.9. It shares the same frequency as a Class C 100kW station that broadcasts at 2,000 feet above ground level that is 80 miles away. Even though its 80 miles away, with a signal THAT strong and goes out a long ways, what used to be a listenable signal on many radios has now been stomped on. The part that I don't get is why the FCC allowed the permit at 97.9 but not 92.7, a much more open frequency with no stations that regularly come in and no locals between 92.3 and 93.1.

A couple of questions:

Does the someone from the FCC actually visit the market to get an actual evaluation of what would be the best frequency to put these low power stations, or are they pretty casual and just go off of estimated dB contour maps?

I know some of you are big supporters of LP community radio, but in your opinion how much is too much? Is it too much when a local non-commercial station starts to step all over a moderate out of market commercial signal?

I am a supported of translators for Class D AM stations or Class B operators with limited power and/or tight directional patterns. I wish that a local Class D at 250 watts and 17 watts nighttime would get one as at night on 1480 they are barely listenable just after sunset and right before sunrise and I'm close to the tower. The local class C with 1KW is clearer at all hours than they are with their full power let alone the PSSA level.

It seems to me that a lot of LPFM licenses have ended up in the hands of church organizations that are relaying programming from other sources (satellite or internet relay) to operate a chain of LPFM stations. Others have gone to people who play radio for a while then turn them over to the other interests or just let them go silent.

If the AM band is going to die as many predict why not gradually shift commercial stations to an expanded FM band and then let the religious and community people have low power, 1KW or less non directional stations, like the class C operators, on the Medium Wave band. If the bigger Class A and higher powered class B stations wanted to stay put they could which could serve for emergency notification of larger areas should that be needed.