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Full Digital HD Radio - No Analog

N

nd2023

Banned
If a radio station dumps its analog signal and goes 100% IBOC, can it increase the power of the HD signal so that it could be heard at the same range as the previous analog 40 dBu contour?<P ID="signature">______________
17-year-old radio geek
Location: Princeton Junction, NJ
AIM: KewlDude471
WWPH 107.9 FM: http://wwph1079fm.no-ip.org</P>
 
> If a radio station dumps its analog signal and goes 100%
> IBOC, can it increase the power of the HD signal so that it
> could be heard at the same range as the previous analog 40
> dBu contour?
>
I wondered the same thing, but I dont see any stations ever doing this, because their are still going to be more analog listeners. Im only guessing, but I would say no, because they would still have to increase their Transmitting Power to get more coverage, and their only allowed what they are licensed to. Maybe someone here can explain this in full technicle detail.
 
> I wondered the same thing, but I dont see any stations
> ever doing this, because their are still going to be more
> analog listeners. Im only guessing, but I would say no,
> because they would still have to increase their Transmitting
> Power to get more coverage, and their only allowed what they
> are licensed to. Maybe someone here can explain this in
> full technicle detail.

Jeff Littlejohn at CC says it could be 50 years before we get there..I'm thinking longer..Someone else said, some time ago it may be advantageous to some less privileged AMs (that have nothing to lose), to go full digital and take advantage of the increased fidelity of the wider bandwidth/throughput. Digital Radio Mondiale already takes this compromise into account in many cases..Sidebar note, you can't really can't really call "Mondiale" DRM since "Digital Rights Management" is using the same acronym, hah, and iTunes and its' siblings are taking up alot of the digital stage as well now.

What being full digital IBOC will allow, for one, is yet more channels of digital audio (looks like you will be able to have something in the order of 6: 4 music grade, and 2 lower voice grade), or so seem to say the "White Papers" at www.ibiquity.com, which tend to be confusing at times...

I think another possibility may be increased coverage, but I, too, will turn that over to someone better versed on the subject.
 
> Jeff Littlejohn at CC says it could be 50 years before we
> get there..I'm thinking longer..

Little John does not realise how quickly the public is and will embrace the new technology as digital radios become cost compatible with older analogue models. Not everyone, but only enough peope have to go digital for it to be profitable to use that analogue bandwidth for digital service...I'm thinking a lot shorter.


> Someone else said, some time
> ago it may be advantageous to some less privileged AMs (that
> have nothing to lose), to go full digital and take advantage
> of the increased fidelity of the wider bandwidth/throughput.

I'm game for this.

> ...Sidebar note, you can't really call "Mondiale" DRM since
> "Digital Rights Management" is using the same acronym...

USB: Upper Sideband, Universal Serial Bus
LA: Louisiana, Latin America, Los Angeles
Where I live, we abbreviate Fort Lauderdale as FL, but FL is also my state.
On the other hand (I have another five fingers!) we had a "National Car Rental Center" stadium, but could not call it the NCR Center for obvious reasons.
Enter any short group of letters into a search engine and you will find several hits for each one.<P ID="signature">______________
Proud 2 B a pioneering satellite radio subs¢riber
Ai4i is always on the trailing edge of technology
_______________</P>
 
> > Jeff Littlejohn at CC says it could be 50 years before we
> > get there..I'm thinking longer..

Hats off to Jeff Littlejohn at CC for lighting a fire underneath the launch of HD radio. What will make or break the launch of HD radio is whether or not CC, CBS, Entercom and all the big players can get the auto makers on board.

I just bought a new car and it came with XM.

I have a neighbor that just purchased a new car and guess what, it came with a trial of Sirius and they love it now.

50 years left of analog radio... Wow, that seems like a long time. I imagine most of us will be getting pretty ripe by that point. :)<P ID="signature">______________
If you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything...</P>
 
>
> I just bought a new car and it came with XM.
> I have a neighbor that just purchased a new car and...it came with...Sirius and they love it now.
>
And you don't?
You got the better deal.
Your neighbor can get a conversion kit!<P ID="signature">______________
Proud 2 B a pioneering satellite radio subs¢riber
Ai4i is always on the trailing edge of technology
_______________</P>
 
> And you don't?
> You got the better deal.
> Your neighbor can get a conversion kit!

I've listened to both. I have Dish so I've listened to many of the Sirius channels (audio quality is EXCELLENT on Dish BTW).

I've listened to many of the XM channels online and I came to the same conclusion. Alhough bot offer tons of choices in programming; I'm not ready to pay for radio.

I'll edit this post and add the following. The point of my post wasn't to compliment satellite radio... It was to say that until some of those HD radios see there way into cars, we won't see analog radio go away. You can count on that!<P ID="signature">______________
If you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything...</P><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by RadioEnginerd on 01/27/06 09:09 PM.</FONT></P>
 
> The point of my
> post wasn't to compliment satellite radio... It was to say
> that until some of those HD radios see there way into cars,
> we won't see analog radio go away. You can count on that!
>
I fully agree.

And, the point of well over fifty percent of my posts is pure unadulterated sarcasm, just to kick some manure and raise some blood pressure ;)

I will keep my eyes on HD prices only if someone in my market comes up with a stream so appealing that I must have it. Fortunately, I think everyone will be streaming their extra HDs.<P ID="signature">______________
Proud 2 B a pioneering satellite radio subs¢riber
Ai4i is always on the trailing edge of technology
_______________</P>
 
Unlike Digital TV which has mandated an analog drop dead date, there is no such drop dead date for radio. Analog will still be on long after all of us on this list have gone to see their maker.




> > > Jeff Littlejohn at CC says it could be 50 years before
> we
> > > get there..I'm thinking longer..
>
> Hats off to Jeff Littlejohn at CC for lighting a fire
> underneath the launch of HD radio. What will make or break
> the launch of HD radio is whether or not CC, CBS, Entercom
> and all the big players can get the auto makers on board.
>
> I just bought a new car and it came with XM.
>
> I have a neighbor that just purchased a new car and guess
> what, it came with a trial of Sirius and they love it now.
>
> 50 years left of analog radio... Wow, that seems like a long
> time. I imagine most of us will be getting pretty ripe by
> that point. :)
>
 
> I've listened to both. I have Dish so I've listened to many
> of the Sirius channels (audio quality is EXCELLENT on Dish
> BTW).

Therein lies the rub: I was at a ski resort in Utah, and indeed, the audio quality of Sirius I heard there on Dish was superb...So superb, it got me to buy a subscription on Sirius, where the codec was absolutely abyssmal...Worse than XM, which is pretty bad, and tincanny at 48kbps. HD Radio at 48kbps is far better, can hardly notice artifacts...A station that only runs one feed/stream on FM with HD is 'blow your mind' outrageous, but these won't be many with time.

Remember, also, Sirius uses PAC as its' codec, the codec iBiquity originally had but eventually got rid of because it did not cut it for them.
 
> 50 years left of analog radio... Wow, that seems like a long
> time. I imagine most of us will be getting pretty ripe by
> that point. :)

I don't necessarily know what's wrong with a long transition point from analog to digital, or for that matter, never shutting it off...You still got that old guy sitting there that says "I got that radio in 1965 and it still works like a charm"..People never stop arguing the idioticness TV is going through about the 'analog shut off date', as it is.
 
> Therein lies the rub: I was at a ski resort in Utah, and
> indeed, the audio quality of Sirius I heard there on Dish
> was superb...So superb, it got me to buy a subscription on
> Sirius, where the codec was absolutely abyssmal...Worse than
> XM, which is pretty bad, and tincanny at 48kbps. HD Radio
> at 48kbps is far better, can hardly notice artifacts...A
> station that only runs one feed/stream on FM with HD is
> 'blow your mind' outrageous, but these won't be many with
> time.
>
> Remember, also, Sirius uses PAC as its' codec, the codec
> iBiquity originally had but eventually got rid of because it
> did not cut it for them.
>

I too agree. I've heard the actual audio on Sirius and was not impressed at all. I think regular FM sounds far better than Sirius, hands down. The feeds on Dish must be a separate uplink and a smart move for Sirius if you tell me. Reels people right in!

I got the chance to hear XM on an actual radio and it did sound better. Not excellent, but better.

I've recently heard IBOC in San Francisco and I was amazed at the codec Ibquity is using. VERY GOOD!

-R.E.<P ID="signature">______________
If you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything...</P>
 
Jumping on the bandwagon---
The quality of HD2 and the couple HD3 channels I've heard are far superior than either XM or Sirius. I've listened to AM digital news/sports-it has much more fidelity than analog but overall the audio is about equal to what I get on XM. I'm not knocking satellite users or programming but I laugh anytime I hear satellite tout "CD Quality." Don't people have ears anymore? The NAB put off moving toward digital and rejected the original HD codecs (which are what satcasters use today) because the audio quality was well below FM. From how I hear it, Ibiquity has done pretty well cleaning up the compression from the original codec.
 
> Therein lies the rub: I was at a ski resort in Utah, and
> indeed, the audio quality of Sirius I heard there on Dish
> was superb...So superb, it got me to buy a subscription on
> Sirius, where the codec was absolutely abyssmal...Worse than
> XM, which is pretty bad, and tincanny at 48kbps. HD Radio
> at 48kbps is far better, can hardly notice artifacts..

Dish Network receives the music channels they carry from Sirius via Fiber, that's why :) They are getting the source directly and not pulling it off a rack of satellite radios.

--Matt<P ID="signature">______________
Program Director/Music Director
X Music Online
The X
Today's Best Music
http://www.xmusiconline.com/</P>
 
HD3 stations

What HD3s have you heard btw, HDfan?? Nobody really talks about what stations are using HD3 feeds, and I'm trying to keep a mental list of those that are.
 
Re: HD3 stations

There are only a few on now although there has been testing on several more (see 'Head Count' thread). It's primarily driven by Public Radio. NPR network has added 4 music services for the affiliates to multicast if they choose. WBOI in Ft. Wayne and KUOW in Seattle both pick up the classical and jazz feeds from NPR. Listening to hd3 I hear a little sonic depletion but not as much as I expected. From what I've seen on the web, there isn't a listing of hd3's. Ibiquity only lists station that multicast not how many channels. It would be great to see how many broadcasters have made an early commitment. <P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by hdfan on 01/29/06 05:26 PM.</FONT></P>
 
> ...You still got that old guy sitting there
> that says "I got that radio in 1965 and it still works like
> a charm"...

It only has AM!<P ID="signature">______________
Proud 2 B a pioneering satellite radio subs¢riber
Ai4i is always on the trailing edge of technology
_______________</P>
 
Re: HD3 stations

Some station are giving their limited coverage AMs a few KBPS's on their HD-3s.<P ID="signature">______________
Proud 2 B a pioneering satellite radio subs¢riber
Ai4i is always on the trailing edge of technology
_______________</P>
 
And I guarantee you that 1965 AM radio has better fidelity than anything you can buy today....


> > ...You still got that old guy sitting there
> > that says "I got that radio in 1965 and it still works
> like
> > a charm"...
>
> It only has AM!
>
 
> And I guarantee you that 1965 AM radio has better fidelity
> than anything you can buy today....
>
>

If not the radio, the stations definitely paid more attention to audio quality.<P ID="signature">______________
Proud 2 B a pioneering satellite radio subs¢riber
Ai4i is always on the trailing edge of technology
_______________</P>
 
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