Full Disclosure

[Starscream]

I'm going to surprise a lot of people here.

JV and Elvis got a raw deal. They got screwed. I say this with no ulterior motive.

That being said, CBS Radio has established themselves as the worst radio company ever to work for. From the original Sex for Sam stunt, to the CBS-FM implosion, to the handling of WNEW (Fresh aside) and now the Imus, JV&Elvis, and probably O&A trifecta, the whole company is worthless.

 

[TowerBuzz]

I'm going to surprise a lot of people here.

JV and Elvis got a raw deal. They got screwed. I say this with no ulterior motive.

That being said, CBS Radio has established themselves as the worst radio company ever to work for. From the original Sex for Sam stunt, to the CBS-FM implosion, to the handling of WNEW (Fresh aside) and now the Imus, JV&Elvis, and probably O&A trifecta, the whole company is worthless.

Full Disclosure?

HAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!

You say CBS is the worst company to work for and you bring up Sex for Sam as an example?. YOU NAME A COMPANY THAT WOULD NOT HAVE CANNED THEM FOR THAT ONE? XM AND SIRIUS INCLUDED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Your full disclosure should have contained the phrase "I am a loyal O and A fan that buys their explaination or spin for EVERYTHING" Not to insult you but the idea that you could say CBS sucks because they let a show go that literally garnered the outcry of THE ENTIRE WORLD, countries that do not even have the radio show were offended by the stunt,................. you sound a step beyond the "fan" stage, you're not even sounding like a rational person Im afraid. Full disclosure on my part, I thought the show was a hundred times better during that afternoon period. I used to really like it but that does not mean I lose all sense of common sense in the process.

 

[Starscream]

Sex for Sam aside, the company is still run lousy.

Look 60 miles south to The Jersey Guys and Millennium Radio. They've been getting away with working a BUNCH of special interest groups into a lather and the company stands by them. THAT'S how it should work.

 

[Starscream]

And continuing this, you need three things to make this work:

1) Solid management
2) Good sales force
3) Loyal listeners.

They all work together. Even if you "lose" an advertiser, there's nothing to say they won't come back when the heat has died down. That's how it works. I've SEEN it work. But you need GOOD managers and GOOD A.E.'s to make it work.

I agree that O&A were better in the afternoons. And no, I don't buy their spin on everything. What I do know is that the bit was relatively harmless. Shocking, yes. But if someone believes that a homeless man is a threat to legitimately rape a Queen, a First Lady, or the SecState, they are an idiot. The reason it was played up is because it was absurd radio, and it was a black man who was saying it, going back to the whole "It's Ok, a Black Man Is Saying This".

Honestly. It's absurd. It's not like he even said he wanted to kill them, which to me, is a much more legitimate threat that saying you want to rape someone.

Not trying to open up a can of worms, but didn't Norton say he wanted to do really nasty things to Linda Stasi of the Post? Perhaps this is a bit of payback.

 

[TowerBuzz]

Sex for Sam aside, the company is still run lousy.

Look 60 miles south to The Jersey Guys and Millennium Radio. They've been getting away with working a BUNCH of special interest groups into a lather and the company stands by them. THAT'S how it should work.

That is not what you said, your argument was that because cbs didn't stand behind their talent like Imus and JV and Elvis (and there may be some truth to that Ill grant you) AND BECUASE they fired O and A after Sex for Sam, it's a lousy company to work for that's what you said. You're a liar miss, you are not at all objective. As for those idiots the Jersey Guys they're in hot water themselves but then again they shouldnt be under as much of a microscope as O and A, they're in TRENTON, not NYC, not market number one, and not syndicated all over. Your arguments have no merit to them, they're nothing more than "ra ra O and A" with nothing to back them up besides your belief that Opie and Anthony are "awsome". :

Millenium stands by them and stands up to the "special interest" groups? here's the reality of your completely misguided argument: Millenium is a little tiny company which you cannot compare to XM, cbs, Sirius etc, nobody in the public has ever heard of Millenium, they're probably not even publicly traded as they're a dinky little mom and pop shop company so they have nothing to lose. If you think the only people who would find Anthony gleefully talking about how he would love to see "the look of horror on Condi Rice's face" as she's being raped, are special interest groups...... You're even more immature and clueless than I thought. You dont have to be in a special interest group with an agenda to hear that and say that's too much.

 

[Starscream]

Tower, before you continue bashing Millennium, you may want to compare 101.5's cume to Free-FM. I'm not sure which is better, but it's not a stretch to say they're in the same ballpark. The same could be said for Virus 202's fanbase and 101.5's cume.

Don't call me a liar and don't call me a pest. I haven't degenerated into namecalling, where you have. I did say CBS is a lousy company to work for, because they don't stand behind their talent.

I used 101.5 as an example because the Jersey guys got into a TON of crap, and lost SEVERAL major advertisers, and after a few weeks, the heat died down and the advertisers came back.

Those are my examples. From experience. Quit using my bias towards O&A as a weapon when you know that all of this is just media-generated outrage over comments which are absurd.

 

[TowerBuzz]

Tower, before you continue bashing Millennium, you may want to compare 101.5's cume to Free-FM. I'm not sure which is better, but it's not a stretch to say they're in the same ballpark. The same could be said for Virus 202's fanbase and 101.5's cume.

Don't call me a liar and don't call me a pest. I haven't degenerated into namecalling, where you have. I did say CBS is a lousy company to work for, because they don't stand behind their talent.

I used 101.5 as an example because the Jersey guys got into a TON of crap, and lost SEVERAL major advertisers, and after a few weeks, the heat died down and the advertisers came back.

Those are my examples. From experience. Quit using my bias towards O&A as a weapon when you know that all of this is just media-generated outrage over comments which are absurd.

Starscream open your eyes and try to get out of your own way for a second, try some objectivity. I am by no means bashing Millenium by stating that they are a small company, they are. Millenium is a small, dinky company, compared to CBS, period. NJ 101.5 may have a large cume and it may even be close to Free Fm's, I will even grant you that it could even be larger! but that has less to do with Millenium and more to do with Free Fm's ratings failures which are not even something that can be argued, that station is in trouble and has been since it signed on. You are talking about ONE station Millenimum owns, CBS owns how many?. Still you cannot compare Millenium and CBS, it is like comparing Gerbil to a Great Dane. Millenium can back the Jersey boys because they are all they HAVE, you would be hard pressed to name any other Millenium radio property ( I admit I dont have a clue how many stations they own) or anybody else who is even on that station (NJ 101.5). So it is much easier for them to "stand behind" their talent, they have none, they have one show and that's it. YOU better believe they have to stand behind them because if they lose them that station/company falls off the map BIG DIFFERENCE there between them and CBS, a publicly traded company with shareholders etc.

Im not calling you names, im being direct and honest with you. You just proved my points with this post. You admitted that you have "a bias toward O and A" which makes you more than a listener, it makes you an "O and A pest". The fact that you dismiss the situation as "media generated outrage over comments that are absurd" identifies you as a "pest", you are biased toward O and A, BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION live with it. You are not objective about them at all. I do not agree with you at all so dont say to me " when you know this is just media generated outrage..." I know no such thing, I dont think that, you do becuase you are a pest and you buy whatever O and A say, that's really the definitave characteristic of a "pest". Im not insulting you at all, you have shown yourself over and over to be someone that only sees one viewpoint: O AND A ARE RIGHT NO MATTER WHAT. YOU said that CBS was a lousy company to work for because they did not stand behind their talent and you specificlaly said because they did not stand behind O and A by not firing them after sex for sam and I said that any company would have fired them after that, there is not ONE that would have kept them, you cant blame CBS for that. They might even be a lousy company to work for god knows they've blown everything they've touched in the market except 1010 wins but there's not one company you could name that would not have pulled thee plug after Sex for Sam XM included!. But you still continue with the unwaivering viewpoint that O and A are always right, you are biased toward them YOUR OWN WORDS. Im not using your words as weapons at all, Im showing you that you are a "pest" becuase you are biased toward O and A and can never acknowledde any negative thing about them no matter what the situation. That makes you a "pest"


Note to the mods before you move this thread to "take it outside" "pest" is a name that O and A themselves gave their fans and most fans use themselves as a badge of honor, it is not an insult in the literal sense of the word.

 

[tomservo]

Millenium stands by them and stands up to the "special interest" groups? here's the reality of your completely misguided argument: Millenium is a little tiny company which you cannot compare to XM, cbs, Sirius etc, nobody in the public has ever heard of Millenium, they're probably not even publicly traded as they're a dinky little mom and pop shop company so they have nothing to lose.

If they are a tiny little company, then wouldn't it behoove them to ditch the controversial talent and just play music all day? Music is safe. Mom 'n' pop companies have a lot more to lose than a megaconglomerate like CBS or Entercomm. Free FM could crash and burn and the company will go on; most employees could be absorbed elsewhere. The little guys lose their only license and it's the end of the road for them and their help.

Instead, they realize that controversy sells. They realize that people will tune in "just to see what they're gonna say next" and all that jazz. They also realize that no special interest group truly holds the key to their failure.

Back in my hometown of Birmingham, a new (to the slot, not the city) AM morning host got in hot water. When asked by a caller what "we" should do with all the immigrant protesters, he said, "I think we should shoot them." (Of course in print, the context of the delivery is lost -- was he joking, serious, angry? Who knows. It is only second hand information telling me that he was joking, so I cannot confirm or deny that attitude.)

Hit from both the Hispanic advocacy groups AND some evangelical groups, Citadel took the host and his counterpart off the air. Citadel decided to stand behind this guy and his co-host and put them back on, much to the chagrin of the frothing-at-the-mouth rabid lady who apparently represented all the Hispanics in town on TV today.

Will they lose advertisers? Who knows - maybe. If they do, they'll be back if the ratings go up. If they don't, then the show will get canned. But by standing up to special interest groups Citadel wisely left their fate in the hands of the marketplace. If this kind of "faux" controversy can work in a backwater burg that is B'ham, why not New York???

With everyone decrying Free FM's low ratings, would it really hurt for CBS to throw caution to the wind and let their shows "go there" and "do that" and see what happens? Me thinkst that CBS is in good enough financial straits that a few months of no advertising wouldn't run them to the poor house.

Then maybe these so-called advocacy groups would get back to fighting real injustices, like face-to-face discrimination on the job, in housing and on the street. I've been to New York enough to know those are some big problems there, a lot worse than B'ham or Atlanta or some other "redneck backwater burg".

 

[mostb1]

Millenium stands by them and stands up to the "special interest" groups? here's the reality of your completely misguided argument: Millenium is a little tiny company which you cannot compare to XM, cbs, Sirius etc, nobody in the public has ever heard of Millenium, they're probably not even publicly traded as they're a dinky little mom and pop shop company so they have nothing to lose.

If they are a tiny little company, then wouldn't it behoove them to ditch the controversial talent and just play music all day? Music is safe. Mom 'n' pop companies have a lot more to lose than a megaconglomerate like CBS or Entercomm. Free FM could crash and burn and the company will go on; most employees could be absorbed elsewhere. The little guys lose their only license and it's the end of the road for them and their help.

Instead, they realize that controversy sells. They realize that people will tune in "just to see what they're gonna say next" and all that jazz. They also realize that no special interest group truly holds the key to their failure.

Back in my hometown of Birmingham, a new (to the slot, not the city) AM morning host got in hot water. When asked by a caller what "we" should do with all the immigrant protesters, he said, "I think we should shoot them." (Of course in print, the context of the delivery is lost -- was he joking, serious, angry? Who knows. It is only second hand information telling me that he was joking, so I cannot confirm or deny that attitude.)

Hit from both the Hispanic advocacy groups AND some evangelical groups, Citadel took the host and his counterpart off the air. Citadel decided to stand behind this guy and his co-host and put them back on, much to the chagrin of the frothing-at-the-mouth rabid lady who apparently represented all the Hispanics in town on TV today.

Will they lose advertisers? Who knows - maybe. If they do, they'll be back if the ratings go up. If they don't, then the show will get canned. But by standing up to special interest groups Citadel wisely left their fate in the hands of the marketplace. If this kind of "faux" controversy can work in a backwater burg that is B'ham, why not New York???

With everyone decrying Free FM's low ratings, would it really hurt for CBS to throw caution to the wind and let their shows "go there" and "do that" and see what happens? Me thinkst that CBS is in good enough financial straits that a few months of no advertising wouldn't run them to the poor house.

Then maybe these so-called advocacy groups would get back to fighting real injustices, like face-to-face discrimination on the job, in housing and on the street. I've been to New York enough to know those are some big problems there, a lot worse than B'ham or Atlanta or some other "redneck backwater burg".

You are totally clueless. Radio IS part of the problem when it comes to racism. Imus, JV & Elvis are prime examples of how white men continue to believe this nation is just full of white people in the executive ranks and nothing will happen to them if they make fun of minorities since they have had little or no power. Not going to be that way anymore. Many people of "color", women and those who are not heterosexual are going to be your future bosses. This is going to drive content and what isn't appropriate anymore. What these guys have said will be off-limits, as it should have always been, forever more.

That said, it's also time to clean up the hip-hop recordings that degrade women and glorify drugs, lawlessness and the gang lifestyle as cool. This is another problem that radio, despite bleeping or remixing of songs, continues to add to. What 14 year old do you know that doesn't know the "real" words to a song on the radio? Radio, NOT AL SHARPTON, should be the ones who are pressuring the record companies to clean up their acts. But of course radio only wants to make a buck...like the record companies no matter who it may offend or hurt.

CBS is under pressure to turn around the radio division. Dan Mason has already made two decisions by firing controversial people. He's flying around the nation trying to fix about two dozen or more critical major stations that need help. You really think this is a time when CBS is going to stand with a "problem"? If you do, what bridge in New York would you like to buy from me?

 

[TowerBuzz]

If they are a tiny little company, then wouldn't it behoove them to ditch the controversial talent and just play music all day? Music is safe. Mom 'n' pop companies have a lot more to lose than a megaconglomerate like CBS or Entercomm. Free FM could crash and burn and the company will go on; most employees could be absorbed elsewhere. The little guys lose their only license and it's the end of the road for them and their help.


Zach my man I could not even get past this paragraph before I had to respond. This rationale is so flawed that Im not sure you're aware of the context f my comments.. SO your theory is that if they're a smaller company wouldn't it behoove them to drop talk and play music? because it is less controversial?. In other words, implement a less successful, less popular, and less revenue generational format BECUASE they are smaller. That does not make sense and it also has little to do with my point about Millenium being able to stand behind the ONE SHOW that they have becuase they really have to, that does nto make CBs any less noble, they're just not beholden to one show that they would have to defend with all their breath. They have a lot of other balls in the air, format wise, talent wise, and a blemish like Imus could affect them all. Whereas Millenium has the one show in question, of course they're going to stand behind the one assett they have. So Starscream's paralell that Millenium is so much better than CBs and CBS is a lousy place to work because MIllenium stands behind their talent and CBS (because they fired O and A for "sex for Sam" and they fired Imus, and now JV and ELvis) does not stand behind their talent. In his narrow world that seems to make sense but doubtful to anyone here in the real world.

 

[DToTheJ]

If 101.5 does actually jettison the Jersey Boys, at the very least either Carton (prior NYC experience at the old FM Talk @ 102.7) and Rossi (former country jock in NYC) will have something to fall back on when 92.3 flips to ________________.

 

[TowerBuzz]

If 101.5 does actually jettison the Jersey Boys, at the very least either Carton (prior NYC experience at the old FM Talk @ 102.7) and Rossi (former country jock in NYC) will have something to fall back on when 92.3 flips to ________________.

RIIIIIGHTt and CBS's reasoning for flipping 92.3 IF THEY WERE TO DO THAT, would be to get out of the media and community watchdog crosshairs,..... so that's a great idea, why not hire the two who had just been in hot water of their own just across the river?......Yeah that sounds great, and typical of whhat CBS would more than likely do!

 

[mostb1]

If 101.5 does actually jettison the Jersey Boys, at the very least either Carton (prior NYC experience at the old FM Talk @ 102.7) and Rossi (former country jock in NYC) will have something to fall back on when 92.3 flips to ________________.

RIIIIIGHTt and CBS's reasoning for flipping 92.3 IF THEY WERE TO DO THAT, would be to get out of the media and community watchdog crosshairs,..... so that's a great idea, why not hire the two who had just been in hot water of their own just across the river?......Yeah that sounds great, and typical of whhat CBS would more than likely do!

I really don't have a problem "outing" illegal aliens. The idea for a radio station might be a little over the top but we're talking about people who are commiting a crime by illegally entering the United States or staying beyond their visas. Sounds more like a community service to me.

 

[tomservo]

If they are a tiny little company, then wouldn't it behoove them to ditch the controversial talent and just play music all day? Music is safe. Mom 'n' pop companies have a lot more to lose than a megaconglomerate like CBS or Entercomm. Free FM could crash and burn and the company will go on; most employees could be absorbed elsewhere. The little guys lose their only license and it's the end of the road for them and their help.


Zach my man I could not even get past this paragraph before I had to respond. This rationale is so flawed that Im not sure you're aware of the context f my comments.. SO your theory is that if they're a smaller company wouldn't it behoove them to drop talk and play music? because it is less controversial?. In other words, implement a less successful, less popular, and less revenue generational format BECUASE they are smaller. That does not make sense and it also has little to do with my point about Millenium being able to stand behind the ONE SHOW that they have becuase they really have to, that does nto make CBs any less noble, they're just not beholden to one show that they would have to defend with all their breath. They have a lot of other balls in the air, format wise, talent wise, and a blemish like Imus could affect them all. Whereas Millenium has the one show in question, of course they're going to stand behind the one assett they have. So Starscream's paralell that Millenium is so much better than CBs and CBS is a lousy place to work because MIllenium stands behind their talent and CBS (because they fired O and A for "sex for Sam" and they fired Imus, and now JV and ELvis) does not stand behind their talent. In his narrow world that seems to make sense but doubtful to anyone here in the real world.

OK I think I understand where you are coming from. Keep in mind that I am looking in as a radio outsider - in this case, an outsider to both the industry and the radio scene in NY/NJ.

It has been my understanding that talk is expensive and generates fewer profits than a music format. If that's incorrect then you're on target. So, sorry if I misunderstood the situation there. (Oops, don't fire me cuz I apologized!) ;D

To me, talk falls into four categories: political, "hot talk", sports and everything else ("safe"). Can one make money with nothing but gardening, car and educational shows? Sports does well, at least here. That's an option. But any other talk is going to be political or fall into the "hot talk" category, and neither are strangers to controversy. It may make less money, but doing AC or country won't usually get protests and boycott threats.

You are totally clueless. Radio IS part of the problem when it comes to racism. Imus, JV & Elvis are prime examples of how white men continue to believe this nation is just full of white people in the executive ranks and nothing will happen to them if they make fun of minorities since they have had little or no power. Not going to be that way anymore. Many people of "color", women and those who are not heterosexual are going to be your future bosses. This is going to drive content and what isn't appropriate anymore. What these guys have said will be off-limits, as it should have always been, forever more.

That said, it's also time to clean up the hip-hop recordings that degrade women and glorify drugs, lawlessness and the gang lifestyle as cool. This is another problem that radio, despite bleeping or remixing of songs, continues to add to. What 14 year old do you know that doesn't know the "real" words to a song on the radio? Radio, NOT AL SHARPTON, should be the ones who are pressuring the record companies to clean up their acts. But of course radio only wants to make a buck...like the record companies no matter who it may offend or hurt.

CBS is under pressure to turn around the radio division. Dan Mason has already made two decisions by firing controversial people. He's flying around the nation trying to fix about two dozen or more critical major stations that need help. You really think this is a time when CBS is going to stand with a "problem"? If you do, what bridge in New York would you like to buy from me?

*shakes head in disbelief*

It's not that they think the suits are all straight white guys who think like they do. It's that they mistakenly assumed the suits had a backbone and knew how to weather a storm.

And for the record, mostb1 - my last boss? He was gay. As was his assistant. And you know what? Our shift was the raunchiest, most fun shift of young men you'd find. He recognized that a happy crew works better than an oppressed crew (like our day shift, who were under the PC Policeman).

I was an assisant to that gay boss of mine for a while, too. And even though it was great to be promoted and get more responsibility, I couldn't help but feel I was underqualified and only got the job because a) the last gay assistant got fired and b) I'm the next gay guy in line.

So don't tell me minorities hold the key to [censored] fairness. If anything, everyone is equally corrupt.

If you'd judge us by our individual traits instead of lumping us into neat little liberal-socialist categories ("white male", "homosexual", "people of color", "Asians", etc.) you might find that life is a lot easier to take.

If the radio companies would take indivdual complaints instead of assuming one advocacy group speaks for an entire culture/race/identity, then maybe they would realize the true scope of how upset people are. (And this may very well lead to even more people getting the axe, but at least it would be more fair.)

 

[tomservo]

Just had to throw this out there. As I'm reading through all the discussions on here, I've been rediscovering how great it is to control my own music. My ol' MD player is out and working its mojo.

And then Sonny Boy Williamson's "Fattening Frogs For Snakes (alt take)" just came on.

How apropos.

 

[TowerBuzz]

If they are a tiny little company, then wouldn't it behoove them to ditch the controversial talent and just play music all day? Music is safe. Mom 'n' pop companies have a lot more to lose than a megaconglomerate like CBS or Entercomm. Free FM could crash and burn and the company will go on; most employees could be absorbed elsewhere. The little guys lose their only license and it's the end of the road for them and their help.


Zach my man I could not even get past this paragraph before I had to respond. This rationale is so flawed that Im not sure you're aware of the context f my comments.. SO your theory is that if they're a smaller company wouldn't it behoove them to drop talk and play music? because it is less controversial?. In other words, implement a less successful, less popular, and less revenue generational format BECUASE they are smaller. That does not make sense and it also has little to do with my point about Millenium being able to stand behind the ONE SHOW that they have becuase they really have to, that does nto make CBs any less noble, they're just not beholden to one show that they would have to defend with all their breath. They have a lot of other balls in the air, format wise, talent wise, and a blemish like Imus could affect them all. Whereas Millenium has the one show in question, of course they're going to stand behind the one assett they have. So Starscream's paralell that Millenium is so much better than CBs and CBS is a lousy place to work because MIllenium stands behind their talent and CBS (because they fired O and A for "sex for Sam" and they fired Imus, and now JV and ELvis) does not stand behind their talent. In his narrow world that seems to make sense but doubtful to anyone here in the real world.

OK I think I understand where you are coming from. Keep in mind that I am looking in as a radio outsider - in this case, an outsider to both the industry and the radio scene in NY/NJ.

It has been my understanding that talk is expensive and generates fewer profits than a music format. If that's incorrect then you're on target. So, sorry if I misunderstood the situation there. (Oops, don't fire me cuz I apologized!) ;D

To me, talk falls into four categories: political, "hot talk", sports and everything else ("safe"). Can one make money with nothing but gardening, car and educational shows? Sports does well, at least here. That's an option. But any other talk is going to be political or fall into the "hot talk" category, and neither are strangers to controversy. It may make less money, but doing AC or country won't usually get protests and boycott threats.

Yeah man I get what you're saying and I get your rationale too. Im just saying that if they have only one thing going for them controvery filled or not they would have to protect it and music in a time when the music industry is dying a slow painful death isnt the automatic ratings answer for a lot of companies.

I know where you're coming from though, unlike a lot of people you actually have a pretty thoughtful perspective. For the record I never said fire them, i just said hey were idiots to put themselves and their companies in this position, AGAIN.