FULL SERVICE MOR

[Chuck]

That would pose challenges in attracting a viable, note I don't say any, audience, particularly when you factor in the audience inherently not interested in the kind of mixed programming elements of full service.

I tried local news for about a month. It was done in partnership with a local paper. The bottom line is, it was a lot of work to do, harder to sell than I thought it would be, and most importantly the audience didn't seem to appreciate the five minute interruption. With that in mind, it was an easy decision to pull the plug.

In my relatively small market, we have 35 or more viable local signals. At least, one AM and two FM's are News/Sports Talk. You can also get signals from Dallas and Shreveport that have similar programming. With all those signals available, there is duplication of just about every popular format. I can't think of much reason to do something that other stations are addressing. You are better off figuring out what the other guy isn't doing, and do that. Even then you have to use some caution. There may be a reason why “the other guys” aren't doing it.

 

[imhomerjay]

That last thought is so spot on. Sometimes a hole exists because there is not a viable economic way to fill it.

The music outlined earlier in this thread has a it of niche appeal, that limits the audience. Full service then further limits the appeal. You've now created a fraction of a fraction, and that's a heck of a hard thing to pull off with dozens of competitors just using your technology. Factor in alternate content delivery methods available now that weren't just a generation ago, and the challenge is all hat much steeper.

 

[semoochie]

I never said a word about the 70s. I was talking about songs, intended for adults, when I was a child and before.

 

[borderblaster]

I don't know. If i'm assuming a demographic of 45-64 there are a lot of weays to get the info that the WJR's and WOR's of the world used to mix in with the music, without waiting for songs. Top of the hour network, then local, then a song, then a Wall Street report, then spots, another song, weather, feature, song, Farm Report. I'd have to think on that but I'm thinking in 2011 it's a "no'.

 

[imhomerjay]

No limb, it's a no in 2011.

 

[pioneer71]

If a local AM station should ever having trouble selling news then fire your sales manager and sales staff. If your station is not the big newstalker in the metro but you are a Zanesville, Sandusky or Richmond, Indiana you should be aware that they Big Newstalkers do not cover your city council, school board, and other meetings. Your station should become the local news leader.
The demo we are talking about going after cares about what is happening in their own backyard.

I believe several of you who have made comments points to the fact you don't favor the full service. You don't have to hire ten people for the news department to make it work for a Full Service small to medium market station. If you like I can break down the make up of the staff.

Well, jmtillery is right about how you can sink with third tier talk shows. I would love to work with him on the type of station he wants to create. I know we could stay on budget and guess what- make money and have a lot of fun doing something you don't hear everyday on the dial - a Full Service station with local talent, the right mix of music for the demo and an audience that will be loyal to the format..

 

[flashback]

full service radio in any format is rare today.

 

[imhomerjay]

Many people care about what happens in their backyard. In 2011, many find other ways of finding that out.

 

[Chuck]

Your station should become the local news leader.

Not if someone is already doing that... Interestingly, where I live, the stations who do it don't show up in the ratings.

The demo we are talking about going after cares about what is happening in their own bac.kyard.

That may be true, but, at least in my market, I think they turn to TV. Perhaps that is because of radio's failure to do a good job with local news, or maybe it's because "Wheel of Fortune" follows the 6 PM local TV news.

Of course every market is diferent.

 

[vchimpanzee]

I'm always confused by this discussion. I'm 58 years old, three years out of any salable demographic, soon to be eight and you're talking about programming to my parents! Where's the return on investment?

I'm 50 and in less than 4-years I will fall outside of the 25 - 54 target demo. However, my idea is to target the 35 - 64 adult with news, information, weather, traffic, sports, business news, maybe a talk show in a select daypart and non-offensive music. Tell me what part of my outline is targetted towards your parents?

I'm 55, and had the same reaction as semoochie to the music sample given earlier. It's the music my parents, now in their 80s, listened to 30 years ago. Ray Conniff, Ferante & Teicher, Tony Bennett seem a little too old.

The target demo for the format I have in mind is Adults 35 - 64. The oldest song I gave on my sample playlist is Ferrante and Teicher "Exodus" which charted in 1960. A person who was ten in 1960 and remembers the song is 61 now. A person who was 13 in 1960 is now 64. In constrast the newset song on the sample playlist is Kenny Rogers "Morning Desire" which was released in 1985. A person who was 10 in 1985 is now 36. Therefore, the music falls within the target demo 35 - 64, and this is the reason Tony Bennet and Ray Conniff were included to attract the upper end 35 - 64, although if you will note, the majority of the music included in my sample is from the median 1970s which will attract a person from the mid 40s to mid 50s.

I started listening to the adult standards format in the early 90s when I was in my early 30s. It is true that the familiar songs of the 70s and 80s helped hold my interest, but I heard a lot of songs recorded before I was even born that I enjoyed and still do.

And I listened to "beautiful music" in the 70s when I was a teenager. Mainly because it was background music in businesses and medical offices, but I liked it. Then my parents got an FM radio and listened to the format at home. In the car I listened to what was then called adult contemporary. It's pretty tame stuff compared to what is called AC today.

 

[vchimpanzee]

"The target demo for the format I have in mind is Adults 35 - 64. The oldest song I gave on my sample playlist is Ferrante and Teicher "Exodus" which charted in 1960." I'm reminded of the movie, i believe was called, "Relativity". The idea was that Albert Einstein and Marilyn Monroe were on the planet at the same time so perhaps they met. In the same way, "Exodus" may have been popular when a young boy was ten years old but the chances aren't great that when the song came on the radio, he immediately turned it up, to hear the song! This particular song was intended for adults and you'd be hard-pressed to find someone, who was ten in 1960, who'd want to hear that song now! I'll give you "Theme from a Summer Place" because it definitely had some crossover appeal and still does but it also has a tempo.

I heard "Exodus" the other day and I like it, and I wasn't even born. I heard "Theme from a Summer Place" this morning and have liked it for years, but it was familiar and on the radio (even soft AC) long, long ago.

 

[vchimpanzee]

I'm 55, and had the same reaction as semoochie to the music sample given earlier. It's the music my parents, now in their 80s, listened to 30 years ago. Ray Conniff, Ferante & Teicher, Tony Bennett seem a little too old.

Then I saw the mention of WDUV, and their playlist is more what I was thinking of. (although I think it could also work with mainstream country.)

Here's a hour of music WDUV played this morning:

Cat Stevens - Oh Very Young
Marvin Gaye - What's Going On
James Taylor - Shower The People
Neil Diamond - I Am...I Said
James Ingram - Baby, Come To Me (w/ Patti Austin)
Todd Rundgren - Hello It's Me
Olivia Newton-John - Hopelessly Devoted To You
Louis Armstrong's Orchestra & Chorus - What A Wonderful World
Wham! - Careless Whisper
The Beach Boys - God Only Knows
Carole King - It's Too Late
The Temptations - Ain't Too Proud To Beg
The Carpenters - Top Of The World
Orleans - Dance With Me

Here's the same hour from KJJY in Des Moines, which is less current-based than most country stations:
Josh Turner - Long Black Train
Randy Travis - Forever And Ever, Amen
Rascal Flatts - I Won't Let Go
Brooks & Dunn - Ain't Nothing 'Bout You
Jason Aldean - She's Country
Keith Urban - But For The Grace Of God
Shania Twain - Forever and For Always
George Strait - Here For A Good Time
Collin Raye - One Boy, One Girl
Thompson Square - I Got You
Billy Currington - I Got A Feelin'
Blake Shelton - She Wouldn't Be Gone

I like Ray Conniff, and Ferrante and Teicher and everyone likes Tony Bennett.

I'm not saying I would be willing to be stuck with WDUV, but the only song on that list I would really object to is "Careless Whisper".

That country list is another matter. "Less current-based"? It still has "She's Country" by Jason Aldean and it still has Rascal flatts. I wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole. And it HAS Keith Urban and Brooks and Dunn, whose songs I don't know but based on what I know about the material Ive heard, i probably wouldn't like.

 

[jmtillery]

There have been numerous responses to this thread since I first started it October 29th, and I’d like to thank everyone who has participated and contributed giving an opinion regarding modern MOR / Full Service radio today.

As I have read all the responses, I have found that some of you are all for the idea of re-introducing such a format in today’s radio world while a select few are against combining news, features and other full service elements with any kind of a music combination. For those against MOR / Full Service, I’m sure you have your reasons you feel are very valid, and I will concede that MOR / Full Service may not work in every situation in every market.

My thoughts are there is room for a modern MOR / Full Service radio format in select situations and should be considered on a case-by case analysis. Not every market is the same. Therefore this isn’t a “one size fits all” radio format although the bigger corporate owners are attempting to create cookie cutter radio in every market with various other formats. To me this approach has taken away from the very idea of why radio exists in the first place. Radio should be local, catering to the needs of the community. This includes the listeners as well as the advertisers.

In support of why it is my belief that MOR / Full Service radio still has a place on the radio dial today is largely dependent upon the market demographic make-up, competition, existing formats, available advertising dollars, market research, market-demand, and market-voids (it should be noted there is no such thing as a market-void where there is no demand. If no demand exists, then there is no market void although a particular format is missing from the market. A void can exist only when there is first a demand for a format that currently is not available).

In my own situation, I have done my research. I also know the market very well. Keeping this in mind, it is my belief that MOR / Full Service radio is the best choice for the full-market AM signal I am considering placing the format. On FM we already have three country stations, a classic rock, adult contemporary, hot adult contemporary, CHR, News-Talk, CCM and NPR / Public Radio. On AM we have two sports stations, two news-talk stations and a gospel station. None of these stations are providing any meaningful news content, not even the news-talk stations. This leaves MOR / Full Service as the best alternative for AM by providing news coverage, possibly by teaming with one of the local TV stations, and other features that no other station is providing. According to my research, and it is quite extensive, there is very much a void for this type programming within the market I have in mind.

By becoming the news leader, this is giving the listener a reason to listen for local news content not available from the competition. The Modern MOR music is an alternative to the third rate syndicated talk programming which is all that is available since the first and second tier syndicated talk programming is already secured on other stations within the market. CHR, country, hot adult contemporary and classic rock would be professional suicide since these formats are already available in crystal clear HD stereo on FM. This leaves Modern MOR not currently available.

And, although it is true that some people will use other sources to gather their news, the same is true regarding their music. However, we still have terrestrial radio stations that provide music, news, talk and information. So I don’t see terrestrial radio abandoning any of these elements, features and news anytime in the near future although there will be adjustments as there always has been.

And by the way, I was born in 1961 and I personally like the song Exodus in addition to most anything by Ray Conniff as well as many of the big band tunes that date back years before I was born. Perhaps I’m an anomaly since I tend to be eclectic in my personal musical taste. I did work for a Music of Your Life station when I was 21, so I was introduced to music dating all the way back to the 1930s, including Exodus from 1960, at a rather young age. I also worked the overnight shift for an FM beautiful music station when I was 18. And my first station was a beautiful music AM station where it all started when I was 14. So, again, perhaps I’m an anomaly due to my unique early introduction to much of the older music; however, I know for a fact that I am not alone in my opinion in favor of a return to Full Service / MOR with a music playlist similar to what I had outlined earlier in this thread.

Once again I wish to thank everyone who participated in this exercise. Your opinions are very much appreciated.

 

[semoochie]

It should be noted that Full Service/AC evolved to News/Talk primarily because, while people liked the other elements of the format, there was not a consensus on the music being played and it was limiting its growth. This is another time and it's possible that enough people would like the same music, that it just might work again. Good luck!

 

[klutch00]

There have been numerous responses to this thread since I first started it October 29th, and I’d like to thank everyone who has participated and contributed giving an opinion regarding modern MOR / Full Service radio today.

As I have read all the responses, I have found that some of you are all for the idea of re-introducing such a format in today’s radio world while a select few are against combining news, features and other full service elements with any kind of a music combination. For those against MOR / Full Service, I’m sure you have your reasons you feel are very valid, and I will concede that MOR / Full Service may not work in every situation in every market.

My thoughts are there is room for a modern MOR / Full Service radio format in select situations and should be considered on a case-by case analysis. Not every market is the same. Therefore this isn’t a “one size fits all” radio format although the bigger corporate owners are attempting to create cookie cutter radio in every market with various other formats. To me this approach has taken away from the very idea of why radio exists in the first place. Radio should be local, catering to the needs of the community. This includes the listeners as well as the advertisers.

In support of why it is my belief that MOR / Full Service radio still has a place on the radio dial today is largely dependent upon the market demographic make-up, competition, existing formats, available advertising dollars, market research, market-demand, and market-voids (it should be noted there is no such thing as a market-void where there is no demand. If no demand exists, then there is no market void although a particular format is missing from the market. A void can exist only when there is first a demand for a format that currently is not available).

In my own situation, I have done my research. I also know the market very well. Keeping this in mind, it is my belief that MOR / Full Service radio is the best choice for the full-market AM signal I am considering placing the format. On FM we already have three country stations, a classic rock, adult contemporary, hot adult contemporary, CHR, News-Talk, CCM and NPR / Public Radio. On AM we have two sports stations, two news-talk stations and a gospel station. None of these stations are providing any meaningful news content, not even the news-talk stations. This leaves MOR / Full Service as the best alternative for AM by providing news coverage, possibly by teaming with one of the local TV stations, and other features that no other station is providing. According to my research, and it is quite extensive, there is very much a void for this type programming within the market I have in mind.

By becoming the news leader, this is giving the listener a reason to listen for local news content not available from the competition. The Modern MOR music is an alternative to the third rate syndicated talk programming which is all that is available since the first and second tier syndicated talk programming is already secured on other stations within the market. CHR, country, hot adult contemporary and classic rock would be professional suicide since these formats are already available in crystal clear HD stereo on FM. This leaves Modern MOR not currently available.

And, although it is true that some people will use other sources to gather their news, the same is true regarding their music. However, we still have terrestrial radio stations that provide music, news, talk and information. So I don’t see terrestrial radio abandoning any of these elements, features and news anytime in the near future although there will be adjustments as there always has been.

If you can make this happen, more power to ya! I for one wouldn't mind seeing this format again, but I'd like to see a model similar to that of, say the old WGY, WBZ, WBAL, WHAS, KDKA; maybe the old 3WE or WGAR. I would NOT want to see a return of the old WMAL. Other than Tom Gauger and maybe some of their weekend hosts, I feel that said station was bereft of any real talent, although there are many people who'll disagree with me.

As far as music is concerned and like I said before, keep the playlist diverse by not only featuring the hits by appropriate artists, but don't be afraid to play the more obscure, but acceptable album cuts; and don't be afraid to pull from different musical genres, including R&B/soul, country, lighter rock and maybe even a little light jazz. I think a great mid-day, one-hour feature might be to have an 'artist spotlight' where you feature music by a given artist and play in depth titles from that artist. At night, try to avoid talk shows. Instead, feature perhaps a special music program; especially if the station is a clear-channel AM.

I'll also strongly suggesting adopting a quality ANALOG transmission standard in stereo.

And by the way, I was born in 1961 and I personally like the song Exodus in addition to most anything by Ray Conniff as well as many of the big band tunes that date back years before I was born. Perhaps I’m an anomaly since I tend to be eclectic in my personal musical taste. I did work for a Music of Your Life station when I was 21, so I was introduced to music dating all the way back to the 1930s, including Exodus from 1960, at a rather young age. I also worked the overnight shift for an FM beautiful music station when I was 18. And my first station was a beautiful music AM station where it all started when I was 14. So, again, perhaps I’m an anomaly due to my unique early introduction to much of the older music; however, I know for a fact that I am not alone in my opinion in favor of a return to Full Service / MOR with a music playlist similar to what I had outlined earlier in this thread.

Well, you've got about four years on me. I would sometimes in my late teens and early twenties listen to a local 'Format 41' affiliate which played some of those songs. Now, I'll confess that if there was a trend in radio that I thought was positive, it was the implosion of traditional EZ in the early 1990s. Sorry, but the format was almost completely bereft of any decent material. Had broadcasters decided to use more original, innovative material to play, it could have had a better life. Instead, they chose to rely on the same old stale remakes for almost all of their on-air material. There was almost certainly better original material that would've been appropriate that got overlooked for no good reason IMNSHO.

Digressions aside, may I suggest that a FS-MOR host dances (especially with a live band), car shows, trips and other promotions.

Once again I wish to thank everyone who participated in this exercise. Your opinions are very much appreciated.

You're quite welcome. I wish you the best.

 

[naytchrboy]

Late in the game to this thread but where does a station like WRAL-FM in North Carolina fit into this model? They play a lot of current pop hits with a few crossover country hits (this is NC) with a sprinkling of 70s and 80s hits it seems every hour. Since they are co-owned with WRAL-TV they feature the local tv news personalities heavily in the morning show and drive time newscasts along with that tv station's weather personalities. They have some traffic updates, a fairly popular morning show that's local and they simulcast the WRAL-TV 6 o'clock news each weeknight. Additionally, they are the flagship station for NC State football and men's basketball broadcasts (but push the coaches' shows, etc. over to co-owned WCMC, the FM all sports channel). I don't think they have a top of the hour newscast outside of the morning and evening, but during any local news event, they simulcast the tv station again (think tornado warnings, hurricanes, etc.)

 

[jmtillery]

Late in the game to this thread but where does a station like WRAL-FM in North Carolina fit into this model? They play a lot of current pop hits with a few crossover country hits (this is NC) with a sprinkling of 70s and 80s hits it seems every hour. Since they are co-owned with WRAL-TV they feature the local tv news personalities heavily in the morning show and drive time newscasts along with that tv station's weather personalities. They have some traffic updates, a fairly popular morning show that's local and they simulcast the WRAL-TV 6 o'clock news each weeknight. Additionally, they are the flagship station for NC State football and men's basketball broadcasts (but push the coaches' shows, etc. over to co-owned WCMC, the FM all sports channel). I don't think they have a top of the hour newscast outside of the morning and evening, but during any local news event, they simulcast the tv station again (think tornado warnings, hurricanes, etc.)

I've been listening to WRAL-FM online over the past hour to get a feel for the format. So far I have only heard music which sounds classic hits with select adult contemporary current charted music with an 80s lean. I did hear two 70s hits during the past hour. If WRAL-FM is airing news, information, weather and trafflic along with other full service features during the day, although the moniker Mix 101.5 sounds more adult contemporary, I would describe WRAL-FM as a modern day full service modern MOR FM since the music is newer for FM than what one might find on a full service / MOR AM station. The format sounds good.

 

[borderblaster]

I can remember WOWO, especially in the mid and late 70s, playing even the rock-oriented top 40 hits long with news, personality, weather, features and farm. I'm trying to imagine a version of that today which would play the hits. You'd hear something like Foreigner's "Urgent", The Rolling Stones "Miss You", the Saturday Night Fever hits as well as oldies and recurrents; maybe rarely an old Lettermen , ,Vogues or something similar. One can imagine that now...or not. Lady Gaga, Katy Perry and everything else on the chart. Maybe a Hot A/C kind of mix.

If I'm playing music on a modern day full-serv, I'm not thinking going obscure or deep cut, since the information is the focus. If you've got a signal that can make it work, best of luck and keep us posted,

 

[jmtillery]

I can remember WOWO, especially in the mid and late 70s, playing even the rock-oriented top 40 hits long with news, personality, weather, features and farm. I'm trying to imagine a version of that today which would play the hits. You'd hear something like Foreigner's "Urgent", The Rolling Stones "Miss You", the Saturday Night Fever hits as well as oldies and recurrents; maybe rarely an old Lettermen , ,Vogues or something similar. One can imagine that now...or not. Lady Gaga, Katy Perry and everything else on the chart. Maybe a Hot A/C kind of mix.

If I'm playing music on a modern day full-serv, I'm not thinking going obscure or deep cut, since the information is the focus. If you've got a signal that can make it work, best of luck and keep us posted,

I remember the former WOWO, having listened to it at night here in Florida in the 70s and 80s. I was program director in the late 70s and later general manager in the late 90s at the same Top 40 / Full Service AM in my hometown. We had been Full Service / MOR but flipped to Full Service / Top 40 towards the late 70s. In my opinion the music on a modern Full Service / MOR today would lean older on an AM station while it would lean newer on FM with both using the same general Full Service template.

 

[borderblaster]

Another uptempo full-serv station at the time was WIBC, Indianapolis. In fact WTPI signed on with a Class B at 107.9 as an FM full service A/C station, complete with top of the hour news every hour. WTPI didn't last long; WIBC went back briefly to playing some music in drive time as late as the early 90s.