Future of KKBW 104.9

[fordranger797]

I think we all can agree that the coverage area for 104.9 is not impressive. Their directional antenna placement near La Grande, WA gives them a footprint, but i'd hardly call it enough to serve the Seattle market. It seems like KKBW is trying to challenge KISW without having the means to actually take a decent chunk out of KISW's business. It seems to me like it would be a better business decision to market programming on 104.9 to focus primarily on Tacoma and the surrounding communities that receive a strong signal from 104.9.

I'd really like to hear what you guys think about KKBW and what the future might hold.

 

[Bongwater]

A bigger bra.

http://www.thebrew1049.com/main.html

 

[fordranger797]

CC KKBW marketing meeting ~

"Our numbers are still in the toilet, what should we do to boost our audience?"
"...how about a new feature called "Miss Butt World Cup? We'll add it to "Boobs vs. Butt."

 

[Lightingnut]

KKBW has no future. Out of all signals trying to reach Seattle, this one is the worst. KKBW 104.9 and KHHO 850, in my opinion should be combined and formatted to reach Tacoma. KH2O 850 & 104.9? (To bad KH2O didn't succeed back in '96...I lived in Tacoma at the time and really wanted them to succeed...bummer.)

 

[fordranger797]

KKBW has no future. Out of all signals trying to reach Seattle, this one is the worst. KKBW 104.9 and KHHO 850, in my opinion should be combined and formatted to reach Tacoma. KH2O 850 & 104.9? (To bad KH2O didn't succeed back in '96...I lived in Tacoma at the time and really wanted them to succeed...bummer.)

I think KHHO has more potential than KKBW. KHHO has a daytime signal that could be put to some real use in the south sound area. I thought it was insane for the KFNK (back a good number of years ago) to be the official broadcaster of the Seattle Thunderbirds WHL hockey club; the signal barely reached Kent. If this station has any business in the realm of sports, stick to the Rainiers (as the stadium is actually in the coverage vicinity).

If CC really wants to challenge KISW, get a live and local rock format going on 102.9 (which has a signal that can reach Snohomish County AS WELL AS many communities in southwest Washington which do not have an active rock radio station). Not to mention, CC is not a stranger to active rock as a radio format anyway. As I have said before, 104.9 seems as if it were slapped together just to work and generate some form of revenue, but only a small margin. Sure, its easy to play "armchair radio expert", but this seems like a no-brainer to me. Now cue AHQ with "You have no brain."

 

[Bongwater]

Actually, 104.9 wasn't slapped together. They were never really intended to be a Seattle station to begin with. Just a solely Pierce County signal and anyplace else it got out to was just gravy. They were 6,000 watts originally, it's now 17,000 watts. They're hemmed in by 104.7 southwest and 104.5 and 105.3 to the north and of course, 104.9 Vancouver. So they can't upgrade or CC would have done that.

It's a Pierce County signal by original design. But CC had to get a presence in the area (they just bought KJR/KBTB and KUBE in 2002), so they took what they could get. KBTB ("95.7 The Beat") was programmed by Bob Case, who I think owned KFNK, then at 104.9. He wasn't making much on KFNK and CC was itchy with money to burn.

 

[on_air_dont_care]

Actually, 104.9 wasn't slapped together. They were never really intended to be a Seattle station to begin with. Just a solely Pierce County signal and anyplace else it got out to was just gravy. They were 6,000 watts originally, it's now 17,000 watts. They're hemmed in by 104.7 southwest and 104.5 and 105.3 to the north and of course, 104.9 Vancouver. So they can't upgrade or CC would have done that.

It's a Pierce County signal by original design. But CC had to get a presence in the area (they just bought KJR/KBTB and KUBE in 2002), so they took what they could get. KBTB ("95.7 The Beat") was programmed by Bob Case, who I think owned KFNK, then at 104.9. He wasn't making much on KFNK and CC was itchy with money to burn.

You're right, Bob Used to own KFNK before CC then when they bought it, they made him Director of Operations (before Shellie Hart) he still works for CC but from home in WA and travels to other CC stations. Last time I heard of him, he made an app that made him millions. KFNK was originally directed to the South Sound, selling only to clients in the Tacoma area. The signal is weak up north but great hitting Olympia and south which is dumb of them to compete with KISW. Now that station has a few local clients and mostly barter spots pawned from KUBE, KISS, KJRs. KHHO has potential, but the only thing they have for them are the Tacoma Rainier broadcasts, but other than that, it's just another barter filled station.

 

[fordranger797]

Actually, 104.9 wasn't slapped together. They were never really intended to be a Seattle station to begin with. Just a solely Pierce County signal and anyplace else it got out to was just gravy. They were 6,000 watts originally, it's now 17,000 watts. They're hemmed in by 104.7 southwest and 104.5 and 105.3 to the north and of course, 104.9 Vancouver.

Its a shame. There was probably a time where they once could have given themselves a better footprint. Of course, the FCC denotates transmitter position, but maybe they could have done something else back then?

 

[Bongwater]

Its a shame. There was probably a time where they once could have given themselves a better footprint. Of course, the FCC denotates transmitter position, but maybe they could have done something else back then?

Unfortunately, there isn't. You see, 104.9 was a product of Docket 80-90, which was enacted after 1983 to increase the number of FM radio stations. Until that time, there was no way the FCC would allow ANYTHING beyond a translator on 104.9, as it protected 105.3 (in olden days, there were gaps between stations you could drive a truck through. They were planned that way because of the tuning selectivity limitations of early FM radios.) 104.9 wasn't even on the air until 1995. At the time, the owner, Barbara Geesman knew the limitations as they were. But she accepted them. The only other alternative was to have no FM station at all.

Secondly, there are 2nd adjacent channel limitations that keep 104.9 off Cougar and Tiger Mountain. That doesn't leave very many other places they could broadcast from whilst still keeping a full 60 dBu signal in the city of license (Eatonville). So she settled for the best she could.

Sometimes, things just turn out that way....

 

[crainbebo]

Maybe the Z-Twins can buy out 104.9 and simulcast 1560's smooth jazz on 104.9. KZIZ hardly gets out, anywhere, except for Tacoma and Sumner and Puyallup. Not once did I mention Seattle, Renton or Bellevue...

-crainbebo

 

[Bongwater]

Maybe the Z-Twins can buy out 104.9 and simulcast 1560's smooth jazz on 104.9. KZIZ hardly gets out, anywhere, except for Tacoma and Sumner and Puyallup. Not once did I mention Seattle, Renton or Bellevue...

-crainbebo

Chris Bennett has been able to save KRIZ, KZIZ and KYIZ and get that crazy balloon payment under control. But financially, I don't think he's able to purchase 104.9 - certainly not at the price Clear Channel would want for it. It's hard to say, but that's just my rudimentary understanding.

I too would love to have him own an FM station. He's a great local and community based broadcaster. But he's about as shut out as the rest of us from acquiring a halfway reasonable FM signal.

Until then, the web feeds will do, I guess.....

 

[fordranger797]

Unfortunately, there isn't. You see, 104.9 was a product of Docket 80-90, which was enacted after 1983 to increase the number of FM radio stations. Until that time, there was no way the FCC would allow ANYTHING beyond a translator on 104.9, as it protected 105.3 (in olden days, there were gaps between stations you could drive a truck through. They were planned that way because of the tuning selectivity limitations of early FM radios.) 104.9 wasn't even on the air until 1995. At the time, the owner, Barbara Geesman knew the limitations as they were. But she accepted them. The only other alternative was to have no FM station at all.

Secondly, there are 2nd adjacent channel limitations that keep 104.9 off Cougar and Tiger Mountain. That doesn't leave very many other places they could broadcast from whilst still keeping a full 60 dBu signal in the city of license (Eatonville). So she settled for the best she could.

Sometimes, things just turn out that way....

Wow, thanks for the info. I would have figured that back then something could have been done to try and expand coverage, or upgrade the license. I guess 104.9 will always be difficult.

 

[fordranger797]

Maybe the Z-Twins can buy out 104.9 and simulcast 1560's smooth jazz on 104.9. KZIZ hardly gets out, anywhere, except for Tacoma and Sumner and Puyallup. Not once did I mention Seattle, Renton or Bellevue...

-crainbebo

I've got to agree with Bongwater on this one. If KGY-AM could be sold for $250,000, i'm sure the asking price for KKBW would be exponentially larger. You'd have to be rich, AND have a model that would bring in a big return. Unfortunately, Z-Twins probably wouldn't have enough of an audience to pay this thing off.

 

[bobdavcav]

Could something like the following work?
Move KDUX to 103.3
Get KFIS and KMNT to swap frequencies and move KKCW to 103.5
Move KNRQ to 103.9 and KYTE to 103.1. Then not only could KKBW move in with 102.9 but you'd probably be able to fit a 102.7 in Portland.

 

[fordranger797]

Could something like the following work?
Move KDUX to 103.3
Get KFIS and KMNT to swap frequencies and move KKCW to 103.5
Move KNRQ to 103.9 and KYTE to 103.1. Then not only could KKBW move in with 102.9 but you'd probably be able to fit a 102.7 in Portland.

KKBW could move over to 102.9 already. I agree though, it would be nice if there could be some sort of frequency shakeup to make space.

 

[Bongwater]

Could something like the following work?
Move KDUX to 103.3
Get KFIS and KMNT to swap frequencies and move KKCW to 103.5
Move KNRQ to 103.9 and KYTE to 103.1. Then not only could KKBW move in with 102.9 but you'd probably be able to fit a 102.7 in Portland.

That's not quite as easy as it would appear. It took a few years of red tape to facilitate the KAFE/CHHR swap alone. Engineering studies, environmental impact, everything in triplicate, et al.

Plus, it all costs money. BIG money. Engineers and equipment to do the job are not cheap. Somebody has to pay for all that.

I figure if you can get rid of all these Jesuscasters and even regular translators (are they even relevant anymore in most areas in the age of streaming audio?), you might be able to squeeze a few more stations in. But there's still limits. LPFMs are a reality too.

It's an Excedrin headache.

 

[AAllen]

Secondly, there are 2nd adjacent channel limitations that keep 104.9 off Cougar and Tiger Mountain. That doesn't leave very many other places they could broadcast from whilst still keeping a full 60 dBu signal in the city of license (Eatonville). So she settled for the best she could.

Sometimes, things just turn out that way....

Well, if serving Eatonville is the issue, just set up a low-powered station in Eatonville so 104.9 isn't the only station any more. It could be one of those stations connected to flashing yellow signs saying "Tune to [station] when flashing, and can you out-run a lahar?"

 

[Bongwater]

Well, if serving Eatonville is the issue, just set up a low-powered station in Eatonville so 104.9 isn't the only station any more. It could be one of those stations connected to flashing yellow signs saying "Tune to [station] when flashing, and can you out-run a lahar?"

It's already is a TIS signal practically.

 

[bossbill]

That's not quite as easy as it would appear. It took a few years of red tape to facilitate the KAFE/CHHR swap alone. Engineering studies, environmental impact, everything in triplicate, et al.

Plus, it all costs money. BIG money. Engineers and equipment to do the job are not cheap. Somebody has to pay for all that.

I figure if you can get rid of all these Jesuscasters and even regular translators (are they even relevant anymore in most areas in the age of streaming audio?), you might be able to squeeze a few more stations in. But there's still limits. LPFMs are a reality too.

It's an Excedrin headache.

As Bongwater points out in a couple of posts, it's not that simple. Frequency changes and upgrades require a lot more than simply willing it to happen. FCC R & R contains mileage separation requirements... look 'em up and do your own calculations. I once was provided a proposal to move one of my stations to NEAR Seattle, and it involved something like 20 different moves within Washington and Oregon, in several steps. And that was several years ago. Every time a station upgrades, it reduces the opportunity for another to move.

The 104.5/104.7/104.9 situation involves more than just Aberdeen, Eatonville, and Covington. There's Wenatchee and a few others to consider. Covington and Eatonville are singletons; you can't take away sole service.

 

[fordranger797]

The 104.5/104.7/104.9 situation involves more than just Aberdeen, Eatonville, and Covington. There's Wenatchee and a few others to consider. Covington and Eatonville are singletons; you can't take away sole service.

Are you referring to the fact that KMCQ and KKBW are the only stations licensed to Eatonville and Covington? True, but I don't recall hearing any programming on KKBW that serves Eatonville through advertising or through public service announcements. I find it rather astounding that everything on the station targets the Seattle market. I am more than positive that KMCQ operates in the same fashion. I'm sure that Eatonville could really benefit from some form of local content. I would imagine there are listeners of KKBW in Eatonville (probably because its the only "local" signal) who are surprised to discover that it's COL is Eatonville. If they are interested in locating the studios, they are in for a surprise.