Future of the End?

[Mamaknowsbreast]

Noticed today that Atlanta's heritage alt station 99x bit the dust. Obviously it's a different market than Seattle, but there some similarities. Atlanta had a struggling alt station and a newer active rock station that seems to be doing great. While KISW is by no means new, most of the talent including mornings have only been there a little over a year. And KISW is kicking butt, while the end continues to struggle. 99x and the End were similar in that they both had a big focus on new music, and that just doesn't seem to be connecting well to listeners these days.

In Atlanta's case, we are talking about 2 different companies (Cumulus & Clear Channel). In Seattle, Entercom owns both stations and I'm sure they're confident that if they do pull the plug on the End, most of those listeners would probably flock over to KISW and increase their numbers even more.

Is this a sign that even heritage alt stations such at the End might soon meet the same fate?

 

[TakeItFromMe]

The whole thing is kinda sad cowboys, the END is the last of its kind. First the Crockodile
Cafe and now THE END shuttin down, but discussions are underway :'(

The big question is what would ya do with the signal ??? Entercom has done a heck of a job of
keeping males happy. Young country guys like the WOLF, Rock guys like KISW, Treehugger guys like
KMTT. Classic Rock ain't an option cause it would heard the upper end of KISW and would face stiff
competition from KZOK and KJR.

Now you know what has been goin on behind Entercom doors. THE END still makes money, but the young males
aren't listenin to radio like they did. what to do cowboys, what to do? There has been talk about FM sports which makes loads of $$$ Fits perfect with the male group lean and doesn't hurt the brothers in the cluster. There has been some talk about Modern Ac with lazlo in the morning which would take a chunk out of KBKS, KPLZ, JACK : Only issue with that one is that it could hurt
KISw mornings and KMTT a bit. lotsa talk, lotsa rumors but change is slow

 

[alexanderthepeon]

And to think not long ago the END was attacked directly by KROCK because it was though there could be 2 alternative stations.

The way I see it, unless you've got something better to do with the station, be careful. A female targeted station would round out the cluster, but as consolidation and the cost cutting of terrestrial radio continues... it will be increasingly likely we'll see combo numbers being sold. For that reason, having the END (voice tracked and syndicated) and KISW (live and local) could be worth more than the DUD and KISW.

 

[CCMilesD]

So, I'm in the Endd's demo, and am a regular listener..... I know that multiple friends of mine share my opinions on 107.7 and KISW:

I don't know why everyone thinks listeners from the Endd would flock to KISW... they'd have to tweak the format. I've listened to 107.7 for years, and aside from the crappy "Church of Lazlo" (everyone I know turns OFF their radio during this stink whole) I think the rest of the day is perfect....thats why I've always been a fan of the "happily mediocre" promos they play....if only I believed them.

I don't listen to KISW because I don't like AC/DC, Nickelback, Slipknot, Korn, Linkin Park, etc.....

I listen to KNDD because I enjoy The Shins, Angels & Airwaves, Mat Kearney, Snow Patrol, Beck, Deathcab, Yeah Yeah Yeahs

 

[Bongwater]

It seems like every decade we go through this. First Modern Rock gets big, then TOO big. Then implosion. Suddenly, it's no longer the money maker it was and..."Well, I guess it's time to flip this sucker...."

Reminds me of when KJET disappeared. Like KNDD, before KJET went under, it was basically considered a joke by alternative rock fans and some were even hoping it would die off. But when KJET did eventually buy the farm, EVERYBODY in the alternative rock community was outraged and saddened. There was nothing left on the radio to replace it. KCMU was world-music crazed at the time and was getting pretty yuppity for a station whose main form of financial support came from the modern/punk rockers that supported it, later that attitude would come to a head in the early '90s with C.U.R.S.E.

So KJET was done and they were all saddened. Hypocrites I know, but like they say, be careful what you ask for, you just might get it.

For the next few years, KXRX tried to fill the gap by spinning more modern rock than the more staid KISW, but not many modern rock fans were going to sit through hearing A Flock Of Seagulls, then David & David, Robin Trower, Pink Floyd, then a Devo cut, then the Beatles, Bruce Springsteen, Jimi Hendrix, et al. Today, that seems like a much more rounded classic rock or even a hotter AAA format, but to a modern rock fan in those days, it just sounded like a mess..

Those were HORRIBLE years, like a ceaseless 3 year drought until KNDD came to life in August 1991. And at exactly the right time. While grunge was just bubbling to the surface when KJET imploded, KJET rarely played early grunge. There was just something about these unkempt, stinky flannel wearing kids who were totally DIY that seemed to clash with '80s Modern rock sensibilities (which still revolved around the new wave ideas of fashion and hip-appeal.) Grunge was the anthesis of all of it. But nobody saw what was coming until about a year later when Soundgarden got signed to A&M and started a flame. Nirvana poured rocket fuel on that flame.

And I see another revolution coming before the end of the decade. The time is right for it. It's when everything becomes tediously repetitive that something comes along that changes the whole landscape of modern rock. Like The British Invasion of the '60s, Punk in the '70s, New Wave in the '80s and Grunge in the '90s, this decade still has yet to contribute it's own chapter in the Modern Rock chronicle.
.
Now with KNDD on life support and the prognosis not looking good, again I'm already seeing people in the alternative community cutting down The End the way they cut down KJET in 1988. If KNDD disappears, I tell them (as I told the same types in another generation did with KJET), don't come crying to me about it.

Like the change of KJET, I think a format switch now with KNDD is premature. Because a modern rock revolution can happen any day now and Seattle radio needs to be ready for it. People thought it was dead in 1989, they couldn't have been more wrong. It just went back underground for a retooling. It will rise again. You just have to stick it out and when it does come back, I think the rewards will be worth it because KNDD, like KROQ in L.A. and KITS in San Fran, it will also have the benefit of heritage and that it survived both the good and bad times and it's still here.

 

[alexanderthepeon]

Great post Bongwater...

But telling big radio companies to "just stick it out for a few years" is like asking a cat to go swimming.

 

[Bongwater]

Asking for anything good out of this industry is like asking a cat to swim. But in the end (no pun...well, maybe), you won't need to ask, the cat will just fall in inevitably.

But some of these format ideas, like FM Sports talk and a return to AC (might as well bring back the Magic 108 moniker while they're at it) are hilarious.

Didn't Entercom try a talk format on FM before? Do they ever learn?

Let's see, they got country, AAA, active rock. Classic rock is not really an option (KZOK would KILL them), Religous is everywhere, Smooth Jazz? Maybe, (KWJZ is pretty stale and it could use some competition but two smooth jazzers in one city can be saxophone overkill.) Oldies are a non-option anymore, no one is going to court KIXI's aging audience and classical doesn't even register.

These "experts" will probably settle on something like 24 hour Colbie Calliat or some equivalent.....

 

[KYYX_fan]

I 2nd the "great post" comment, Bongwater...

KNDD could be good, but it definitely needs tweaking. First and foremost... fire Lazlo. He is horrible. It sounds like he thinks he's the cool kid in high school holding court -- making jokes, spouting opinions. The problem is that he's really the drop-out who wanders back onto campus and holds court behind the grandstands with the soon-to-be-dropouts. I would 10x rather have them give his slot to a couple of kids from C-89.

I can forgive Carolla's morning show because that seems to be the way they're going. KJR-AM barely talks sports, Adam barely plays music and so on... And Adam isn't THAT unlistenable. I guess my ideal morning show would be someone who is personable and screwing around, but never forgets that they're supposed to be playing music and perhaps relating to popular culture. I can go with "did you see what happened on [TV show] last night?" I'm even OK with "did you see [politician / celebrity] say/do [something wacky / insane] yesterday?" However, I'd much rather hear music and I definitely don't want to know their personal politics.

It seems that The End has gone back on their "Alternative Declaration." I had high hopes, but... Oh, well.

 

[GenXRadio]

OK Tex... let's get this straight ok? It's Crocodile...now that that we've gotten the nitpicky thing out of the way let's tackle the end shall we ?
1. - Dump Lazlo, send'em back to KC, he's small market and a wannabe big market.
He's clearly shown that his main focus was to set himself, his woman and buddy with jobs at a cool station but put absolutely NO imagination or creativity int othe programming at all.
The End is a MUSIC station, it's not FM talk or "Hot talk" get back to the music, after all isn't that what the End has always portrayed itself as?

2. - Get rid of Corolla, bring No Name back or get someone local in there mornings invest in the show, give it all the tools it needs to succeed and be PATIENT, *Gasp!* but this is radio! we can't expect to be patient. Build it and the audience will come.
Make the next BIG heritage morning show that everyone always remembers listening to growing up, for me it Was "The Big Mattress" with Charles Laquidera on WBCN. Get a strong talent, goofy sidekick/Producer, traffic girl who can also sidekick a bit and someone who's also Producer/creative person who can put together a bit and have it ready kind of like Gruntner would do on R&M

3. - Mix up the playlist a bit, don't play all the same 10 songs by the bands du jour. put some imagination into the music selections and don't make specialty shows the onloy time you hear punk or older alternative type tunes.
Make Harms do some work and have Jim Keller help put the music together they would bring ion the best of both worlds, Keller the classic stuff, Harms the newer stuff - Que Bella!

4. - No more Loveline - it's worn itself out, it's repetitive and a lot of the calls don't seem believeable.
Play it on delay on the third shift, after midnight if you are really in love with it, again I come back to music, music and more music and far less talk!
What about a Classic concert series? do it 2x a week Jock is there to bring it in and out of breaks and maybe share some stories & information about the band, tour or whatever pretains to the concert.
It'd be extremely popular.

5. - Afternoon drive, Bye bye Lazlo, you and your fake picketers out in front of Met Park, just go away!
How about a music intensize afternoon drive show with one - two personality breaks an hour where a funny story is shared or something like that.
Those outside of the usual backsell & forward promotions type stuff, music news can be handled by a pre recorded feature.
It can be entertaining, engaging, enjoyed, fresh and maybe grab some audience back from Ipods.

Last, keep up the focus on local music, how about live performances of local bands at the Vera Project which the end is so involved with?
Make the local show just a bit longer so you can do 1-2 artists of local music live from the Vera project like End sessions almost.

I'm sure there are a few things i'm missing here but this is a GREAT start!
The End doesn't need to scrap it's format, they just need a programmer with vision, who can either be a personality and a great programmer (Unlike Lazlo) or someone who is strictly the PD who makes the decisions and gets The End back to where it once was.

The whole thing is kinda sad cowboys, the END is the last of its kind. First the Crockodile
Cafe and now THE END shuttin down, but discussions are underway :'(

The big question is what would ya do with the signal ??? Entercom has done a heck of a job of
keeping males happy. Young country guys like the WOLF, Rock guys like KISW, Treehugger guys like
KMTT. Classic Rock ain't an option cause it would heard the upper end of KISW and would face stiff
competition from KZOK and KJR.

Now you know what has been goin on behind Entercom doors. THE END still makes money, but the young males
aren't listenin to radio like they did. what to do cowboys, what to do? There has been talk about FM sports which makes loads of $$$ Fits perfect with the male group lean and doesn't hurt the brothers in the cluster. There has been some talk about Modern Ac with lazlo in the morning which would take a chunk out of KBKS, KPLZ, JACK : Only issue with that one is that it could hurt
KISw mornings and KMTT a bit. lotsa talk, lotsa rumors but change is slow

 

[pbf1]

KJET?

I was MUCH more of a KYYX fan!

 

[RaizinSeattle123]

They should hire Raizin and Kennedy. Wait.... oh crap.

 

[Bongwater]

There you have it KNDD- hire GenXRadio. GREAT IDEAS!

Modern rock is supposed to be about MUSIC. Loveline is STUPID. Even Dr. Ruth was more interesting than these fools. It's a waste of time that could be better spent exploring the nooks and crannys of Modern Rock (of which it is full of.) and getting listener feedback...and USING IT.

Triple J in Australia has the right idea of what a good modern rocker can do:

http://www.triplej.net.au

It has some strangely non-alternative features (a heavy metal program, a rap program, a few news specials and yes, even a sports talk program. But it works.)

 

[KYYX_fan]

Good post, GenXRadio.

I was trying to be a bit more pragmatic than just "blow it all up." It is a matter of priorities. Lazlo is a much bigger problem than Carolla. Once Lazlo is gone... For a morning show, they should put in someone that will have people excited by a new song instead of telling their co-workers, "did you hear the guy who French kissed a baboon on the radio this morning?" People like to be the one that is "in the know."

I agree with moving Loveline to after midnight during the week, but keep it at 10-MID on Sundays. I'd always thought it to be a Sunday-night-only specialty program anyway.

While I think you'd end up with a power/ego clash, I'd like to see something like tag-teaming Keller and Harms on the music selection. Actually, as I mentioned in an earlier post, I would love it if they'd get dj's that were actually interested in music (instead of Lazlo-esque self-promotion) and then let them have some say over their shows' content. Back in the olden dayyyyysss, you'd get comments like, "I was flipping through the new music and found this track. Call in and tell me what you think..." Sure, it might have even been a phony set-up, but it felt more personal than radio today. Maybe that is part of it: I want the radio dj to know more about music than I do. Nowadays, the only way to get something like that -- albeit using computer algorithms -- is with Pandora.com or LaunchCast on Yahoo.

KNDD is missing out on one thing an iPod can't do -- give you information and suggestions about things you didn't know: tell you about new bands/music, throw in some nostalgic older alt, give you background on the bands playing the music, and have a little fun by throwing out the script now and then. An iPod can play what you tell it to play. It can't give you a well-rounded, deeper music experience.

 

[Bongwater]

Re: KJET?

I was MUCH more of a KYYX fan!

KYYX was very good (plus it has Stephen Rabow.) But KJET survived the longest in the '80s. Much longer than anyone ever thought it would. It was a still a cheap operation and had it lasted until 1991, it would have even briefly had new life as many Seattle grunge artists remembered KJET and often mentioned them (as well as KCMU) in interviews about what they grew up listening to (KJET, like KYYX was also very local musician friendly to the end.) KJET was an AM station, but at least it had the signal punch that KCMU never had and after the demise of KYYX, it was better than nothing.

It's also tragic KYYX never survived past 1984 and went soft AC. KYYX had just released a cassette only local music compilation, but never got the chance to really promote it.

After the switch, to hear Van Johnson's voice on the temporary new IDs. ("This is KYYX Seattle...thanks for listening") then something like "Wichita Lineman" Glen Campbell after that always made my heart sink. A few weeks later, they became KKMI in May of 1984 and exactly a year later, KQKT ("Quality Hits KQ-96") before a weird thing began to happen in November, 1986. They were slowly phasing in AORish stuff like Jimi Hendrix and George Thorogood. Then in mid-December, it began full stunting with Crow And West and Roy Otis (including one top of the hour bit with Roy Otis trying to pronounce the KQKT call letters.) On January 7, 1987 the letters officially became KXRX.

 

[pbf1]

Re: KJET?

I was MUCH more of a KYYX fan!

KYYX was very good (plus it has Stephen Rabow.) But KJET survived the longest in the '80s.

Only because KYYX, as a full-signal FM, was expected to provide a good ROI; no such expectations were there on an AM unable to cover the entire market (KJET). Not to take away from KJET; I was a fan of that station as well. But one can't claim KJET to be superior (or inferior, for that matter) to KYYX based on timeline alone.

 

[ambandwidth]

Let's face it, the only time the station was remotely interesting(since the grunge boom)was during the ill fated 'ALERNATIVE DECLARATION' campaign,and on air that would've been:
No Name & Jenny White
Jim Keller
Dick Rosetti
Harms

Granted, this stellar line-up has gone the way of analog tape.But it was a good half a year or so.

 

[KCRadionut]

Ah ha Larr...

Regarding KYYX/KXRX flipping stuff, the first KXRX dj was Mike Brown (KIRO sports guy). I remember when they flipped and he came on about 4:00am in the morning before Crowski & West, R&M et al appeared. I emailed him (Mike) a few years ago about his KXRX days and he was thrilled anybody remembered it. BTW: How does a guy with the handle "Bongwater" have such a good memory? You're taking notes, arn-cha..

 

[Bongwater]

Ah ha Larr...

Regarding KYYX/KXRX flipping stuff, the first KXRX dj was Mike Brown (KIRO sports guy). I remember when they flipped and he came on about 4:00am in the morning before Crowski & West, R&M et al appeared. I emailed him (Mike) a few years ago about his KXRX days and he was thrilled anybody remembered it. BTW: How does a guy with the handle "Bongwater" have such a good memory? You're taking notes, arn-cha..

Well, To ANSWER this question (which is ALL I'm doing, in a non-suggestive or promotional way, yeah, I'm talking to YOU, moderators), marijuana only affects short term memory. Not the long term ones. I can remember forgotten radio stations such as KQKT or KHIT's first playlist 24 years ago, but I had to call my wife to ask her what she sent me to Haggen's for 7 minutes earlier tonight....oh yeah, milk. DAMN! Forgot to use that coupon too! (but she loves me anyway and she knows and I know I'd be lost without her. THAT I can NEVER forget.) And SHE's probably the one taking notes (she even corrects me sometimes even though she knew almost ZILCH about '80s Puget Sound radio before I met her. And she's going to be 26 in March.) And I'm 39.

But I didn't know at all who that voice was prior to the first sign on of Robin & Maynard on their first appearance on 96.5 MHz. So it's not 100% perfect, but pretty damn good compared to most people's recollections of Puget Sound radio in the '80s. So it works.

So there....