Future Talent

[SirRoxalot]

What 20 year olds are taking from this conversation is that radio is in such disarray that it ain't the place to put the time and effort required to build a career. And, if you do, the suits in the corporate suite are more likely to pay the big dollars to a "name" like David Lee Roth or Donny Osmond - with little or no radio experience - than a guy who's paid a lot of dues and cranked out a fine track record in the biz. How's that worked out for them so far?

As far as "programming to the masses" is concerned, why use radio? If you've got something "for the masses", why use a signal that has limited reach? Go right to the Internet, and you're world-wide.

Radio's big strength is ease of use. It's more and more obvious that morons reading - or worse, sending - text messages while driving end up causing pile-ups on the freeway. The water main break in the next town over isn't of interest to me unless I have to drive through that town to get home, or the road I'm on is backed up because of the water main break there. The reason you hire PROFESSIONALS is to sort out the important from the unimportant for your TARGET AUDIENCE. Hard to do that on a VT, podcast, or from another time zone. Anyone who's been a SUCCESSFUL talent understands that.

 

[TheBigA]

What 20 year olds are taking from this conversation is that radio is in such disarray that it ain't the place to put the time and effort required to build a career.

Fine. Go become an accountant. Be a banker. It's your life. There are thousands of new wanna be DJs hitting the job market every year. If you're not prepared to do what's required to separate yourself from the pack, there's a great career in retail waiting for you right now. Head down to the mall.

Same with the music industry. No one's buying CDs any more. Why should I become a singer? I don't know. If you need to ask, you're already heading in the wrong direction.

NO ONE is going to waste their time trying to convince some 20 year old to go into radio. That has to come from within the heart and soul of the 20 year old himself. If he's not willing to do what it takes, then it's the wrong career to go into, and the industry will be well served by him going into another field.

 

[Prais]

The water main break in the next town over isn't of interest to me unless I have to drive through that town to get home, or the road I'm on is backed up because of the water main break there.

Well maybe not. It IS important because over time, and more "water main-like stories" people will get the idea that YOU WILL have the story when they need to know.

 

[HowardMBurgers]

Just to throw a serious wrench in the works; it appears that now with PPM audience measurement, come to find out that 50 and under listeners in our want-what-they-want-when-they-want-it world, don't want chatty DJ's. Listeners appear to want free music without interruption, so that's what popular FM stations are giving them. The community or concert calendar can be pre-recorded, not needed to be read live, along with many other informational content.

The question is then- In the 21st century do we really need new and exciting talent? Perhaps just readers who can voice track or read the news is sufficient? It appears we're giving the public what they want so they'll listen, so what's wrong with that?

 

[TheBigA]

Just to throw a serious wrench in the works; it appears that now with PPM audience measurement, come to find out that 50 and under listeners in our want-what-they-want-when-they-want-it world, don't want chatty DJ's.

That's exactly right.

The question is then- In the 21st century do we really need new and exciting talent? Perhaps just readers who can voice track or read the news is sufficient? It appears we're giving the public what they want so they'll listen, so what's wrong with that?

This is where smart cluster management comes into play. You have some stations that are mainly music stations, and others that offer personality. To do that, you need to own enough stations in a market so you can cover the bases. Because there's nothing you can do to force someone to listen to something they don't want to hear. There was a device presented at CES last week that allows listeners to record radio shows, and eliminate all talk from the mix, leaving them with just the music. That's what they want.

This is why there are fewer jobs for talent, and why employers can be far more selective when it comes to putting one on the air. (Notice I didn't use the word "hire.") A lot of on air people (or on the beach people) are freaking out because they think radio is eliminating all talent. They're not. But you don't need a full staff of live & local talent on every station in your cluster. You need to offer listeners alternatives, and talent is just part of that mix.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Just to throw a serious wrench in the works; it appears that now with PPM audience measurement, come to find out that 50 and under listeners in our want-what-they-want-when-they-want-it world, don't want chatty DJ's. Listeners appear to want free music without interruption, so that's what popular FM stations are giving them. The community or concert calendar can be pre-recorded, not needed to be read live, along with many other informational content.

You're right. Younger listeners don't want "chatty DJ's". They don't want positioning statements, they don't want hype, they don't want liners, and they don't want the same old over-formatted crap that programmers have been upping the ante on for the last 10 years. They KNOW that "The Most Music" comes off their iPod, not a radio station that plays 12 minutes fo commercials an hour. If music is your only product, you're a radio station that just doesn't know it's dead yet.

What listeners of all ages want is content that has VALUE to THEM. Their BS detector has been highly tuned by years of being fed corporate pap. The people who offer them more than pre-fab liners are the ones who are successful. Unfortunately, the guys who learned how to do that are the guys that have good enough ratings that they can tell the canned SPAM merchants where to stick their "must read as written" liners. You don't develop that skill, or that kind of clout, working as a board-op in Chicago. And your "entourage" ain't comin' on board until you've got some skills to display.

So, where do you get a start? The obvious answer is "not in corporate radio". And when they decide you have value, you'd best count your fingers after they shake your hand.

 

[HowardMBurgers]

If music is your only product, you're a radio station that just doesn't know it's dead yet.

Interesting reply. So if I'm running a music-centric station, and my ratings are the highest they've been (as many music intensive stations are) AND I can more accurately now monitor who's listening better than ever, then how does that put me on deaths door? Going under your assumptions, that radio is on the verge of collapse, then why is radio listening at an all time high?

What listeners of all ages want is content that has VALUE to THEM. Their BS detector has been highly tuned by years of being fed corporate pap. The people who offer them more than pre-fab liners are the ones who are successful. Unfortunately, the guys who learned how to do that are the guys that have good enough ratings that they can tell the canned SPAM merchants where to stick their "must read as written" liners. You don't develop that skill, or that kind of clout, working as a board-op in Chicago. And your "entourage" ain't comin' on board until you've got some skills to display.

So, where do you get a start? The obvious answer is "not in corporate radio". And when they decide you have value, you'd best count your fingers after they shake your hand.

You're correct that listeners want something of value to them. That apparently means music and information without superfluous chatter.

Obviously if you're so much above having to read positioning liners or promos, you shouldn't be in radio because that requirement has been in place since the late 1960's and even more through the 70's. I know, because I've read thousands of them on some very sucessful stations. Does it make me a shill for 'the corporate man'? Perhaps. But its also allowed for a good career over the years. Clearly you are too cool for the room to assume that someone who reads liners is, to paraphrase, some sort of sell out.

And finally, as someone mentioned in a earlier thread; radio has always been owned by majore coporations. So isn't the term "corporate radio" redundant?

 

[SirRoxalot]

Going under your assumptions, that radio is on the verge of collapse, then why is radio listening at an all time high?

Simple. It's not. TSL is down significantly, and has dropped steadily since the end of the '80s. Cume hasn't really changed much, but PPM has registered some "hearing" of radio stations as background that listeners didn't write in diaries because they either weren't aware of it, or weren't actively listening to it. And we don't even have to talk about revenues or how both listeners and advertisers have changed their perception of radio.

You're correct that listeners want something of value to them. That apparently means music and information without superfluous chatter.

Obviously if you're so much above having to read positioning liners or promos, you shouldn't be in radio because that requirement has been in place since the late 1960's and even more through the 70's.

That requirement is in place more now than ever before. And PPM is proving that station-centric blather is a tune-out, while listener-centric programming not only doesn't cause tune-out, it may improve TSL. The fact is that PPM is changing the rules, and radio is still trying to figure out just how to program to job that system of measurement in the same way they they jobbed the diary system. Heaven knows PPM ain't perfect.

 

[HowardMBurgers]

Simple. It's not. TSL is down significantly, and has dropped steadily since the end of the '80s. Cume hasn't really changed much, but PPM has registered some "hearing" of radio stations as background that listeners didn't write in diaries because they either weren't aware of it, or weren't actively listening to it. And we don't even have to talk about revenues or how both listeners and advertisers have changed their perception of radio.

Hmm.. I know you've mentioned that TSL is down before, but I've not seen that. AM listening is down across the board but can you site multiple market examples of overall TSL being down? There are some stations in major markets doing Holiday music last ratings period that have shown historically high Cume and TSL numbers. Or do they not count?

And where do you get the information that ratings samples are merely having radio in the background vs. actively listening to them? I've not seen any study or survey that differentiates between the two. Can you point me to that information? Or is this your own personal opinion?

That requirement is in place more now than ever before. And PPM is proving that station-centric blather is a tune-out, while listener-centric programming not only doesn't cause tune-out, it may improve TSL. The fact is that PPM is changing the rules, and radio is still trying to figure out just how to program to job that system of measurement in the same way they they jobbed the diary system. Heaven knows PPM ain't perfect.

Interesting. Can you site examples where respondents claim to have tuned-out during positioning liners or promos? Again, I've not seen any data included which indicate that sort of granularity. Is your assumption based on focus group information or some other form of research?

I don't think radio, as you state, is trying to adjust PPM to somehow match the diary method. Certainly those who used to live by the diary method are now sucking wind, while those who already were ahead of the game by keeping 'personality' to a minimum, are reaping the numbers. No doubt that the former are still wishing for the return of diaries, but that isn't going to happen.

 

[TheBigA]

There was a time when someone with limited talent but a lot of energy could make a living as an on-air talent at a small radio station. Those days are over. I'm sorry that someone moved your cheeze (as the book title suggests), but that's what happened. The rules changed, it's not the 80s anymore, and everything that used to work doesn't apply any more. I'm really sorry for those who got lost in the shuffle. You SHOULD have learned new technologies back a few years ago, learned video editing and social networking, but it's never too late. There may still be jobs behind the scenes for you in production or as a station webmaster. You don't have to be on the air to make a good living in radio.

 

[gr8oldies]

Rox, what is your definition of "listener centric programming" and who is doing it? What DJs are doing free form talk segments that you advocate and increasing ratings?

 

[Element9]

Does this pissin' contest ever end?

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Does this pissin' contest ever end?

Yes, it will end when the day comes that no cares whether radio prospers, when the day comes that people give up on listening to radio because it ventured off path too far. And how can we know where the path really is unless we learn to communicate about it, and have some respect for one anothers opinions.

Don't look for that to come to pass this month or next. April is not looking good either.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Rox, what is your definition of "listener centric programming" and who is doing it? What DJs are doing free form talk segments that you advocate and increasing ratings?

WHEN have I EVER said "FREE FORM TALK SEGMENTS"? Show me ONE reference. You really need to READ what's written.

 

[gr8oldies]

You don't want jocks to promote the station, read liners or promote sponsors. You keep implying that if jocks were allowed to say different things than they do now in music formats, listeners would tune in in larger numbers, not think the jock talk was an interruption, and radio's financial problems would be solved. What specific jock content do you want then?

 

[SirRoxalot]

Hmm.. I know you've mentioned that TSL is down before, but I've not seen that. AM listening is down across the board but can you site multiple market examples of overall TSL being down? There are some stations in major markets doing Holiday music last ratings period that have shown historically high Cume and TSL numbers. Or do they not count?

RAB numbers say that TSL has fallen steadily since the late 80s. I've cited the link in the past, but I really don't have time right now to look it up on their site.

And where do you get the information that ratings samples are merely having radio in the background vs. actively listening to them? I've not seen any study or survey that differentiates between the two. Can you point me to that information? Or is this your own personal opinion?

Not my personal opinion. It is the methodology of the PPM. It tracks whatever the meter hears, not whether the programming actually engages the listener. There' have been plenty of articles about "passive" vs. "active" listening. Here's just one of dozens:

http://www.fmqb.com/article.asp?id=1483844

I don't think radio, as you state, is trying to adjust PPM to somehow match the diary method. Certainly those who used to live by the diary method are now sucking wind, while those who already were ahead of the game by keeping 'personality' to a minimum, are reaping the numbers. No doubt that the former are still wishing for the return of diaries, but that isn't going to happen.

Must be I read more than you. Obviously, not all formats are personality-driven, but its far from universal that those who "already were ahead of the game by keeping 'personality' to a minimum, are reaping the numbers". That would mean that news/talk, country, and a lot of other stations are "sucking wind". That sure doesn't seem to be the case in most PPM markets.

And Gr8, I'm STILL waiting for a SINGLE citation of "free form talk segments". Maybe you should open your mind to the possibility that Alan Burns might actually have a point. Allowing a jock to be more relatable, and less mechanical is hardly a return to the "free-form" radio of the '70s.

 

[davideduardo]

RAB numbers say that TSL has fallen steadily since the late 80s. I've cited the link in the past, but I really don't have time right now to look it up on their site.

RAB does not measure audience or the time spent listening.

Not my personal opinion. It is the methodology of the PPM. It tracks whatever the meter hears, not whether the programming actually engages the listener.

That is correct, but that is because this is precisely what the agencies demanded. All passive measurement shows exposure, not engagement.

Arbitron, however, has a high level committee of advertising and radio people who are working on a metric that shows degree of engagement with stations. The committee has been working over the last four months, and has been the subject of various press releases by Arbitron as well.

 

[davideduardo]

PPM has registered some "hearing" of radio stations as background that listeners didn't write in diaries because they either weren't aware of it, or weren't actively listening to it.

The real fact is that while high profile stations got exaggerated TSL in the diary, the PPM revealed that many had lower TSL. What was, in part, happening is that the "name" of the station got written in the diary, while less famous stations that were P2 or P3 in the diary were seen to be almost shared P1-level in the PPM... so those less high profile stations were getting close to equal listening time.

And this is not active vs. passive; this is perception vs. reality. Often, a station with a famous morning person that did really well in the diary turned out to have far less morning TSL and very little halo effect into other dayparts... while other stations were sharing in the morning and getting much more of the listening the rest of the day. Since mid-day and afternoon has more listening than mornings now, this changes some of the ways we see radio being used and definitely how stations are ranked.

And PPM is proving that station-centric blather is a tune-out, while listener-centric programming not only doesn't cause tune-out, it may improve TSL.

PPM is showing that too much talk of any kind sucks. Boring is bad, and too much boring talk did Corcoran, Brandmeier, Dahl and plenty of other "personalities" with tongues too long for their own good into liabilities.

The fact is that PPM is changing the rules, and radio is still trying to figure out just how to program to job that system of measurement in the same way they they jobbed the diary system. Heaven knows PPM ain't perfect.

But the PPM measures real listening time, not rounded up diary estimations. The PPM grabs the station and the listening time. The diary measued memory.

 

[davideduardo]

Interesting. Can you site examples where respondents claim to have tuned-out during positioning liners or promos? Again, I've not seen any data included which indicate that sort of granularity. Is your assumption based on focus group information or some other form of research?

You are correct. There is no such granularity, and anyone trying to get it from MediaMonitors and such is using samples of 10 persons and under to make conclusions on actions without knowing the reasons.

What the PPM has shown is that mistakes are punished quickly, and it takes a similar mistake by a competitor to shake the listers loose again. What we do see is that there are indications based on programming that show a better mix of more music and briefer talk, tends to work in music based formats.

The exceptions make the rule.

The most famous case was Seacreast being beaten in a month in LA, cutting the chatter, and then regaining #1 a month later.

When the chatter becomes the driving force, the listeners evaporate. When the talk complements the music without overwhelming it, the station is in a better position to win if the air talent is good, the music is right, etc.

Another LA example is the AAA station, The Sound. Deep list, lots of unfamiliar cuts, much talk about the music. Bottom of the heap. Cut the list, cut the chatter, doubled the numbers. Still not big win, but shows where listeenrs are.

,,,those who already were ahead of the game by keeping 'personality' to a minimum, are reaping the numbers. No doubt that the former are still wishing for the return of diaries, but that isn't going to happen.

Correct. Good concise evaluation.

 

[Element9]

Yet PPM, as a number of experts have offered, is far from perfected. Pick your poison.

From Inside Radio, January 10, 2010

Alert: ARBITRON CEO RESIGNS

Arbitron CEO Michael Skarzynski has resigned as chief executive of the ratings company. The company says Skarzynski violated an unspecified company policy. The company has named board member William Kerr as its new CEO, effective immediately. The news comes as the Media Ratings Council rejects Arbitron's accreditation for 18 markets. The MRC has accredited Minneapolis-St. Paul.