G-Rock Suggested Changes

[hubcity]

Beejus,

You might be as correct as you claim, but you're not winning any friends with your delivery.

For the record: yes, record companies make radio versions and format-specific versions of tracks available, and often a station will lazily select the "radio version" without thinking too hard whether the edits make the station sound too sanitized.

I think SoulCrusher's position is entirely valid from the point of view of a person hearing a song on the radio that's been bowdlerized, and from that POV, there's no reason to put too much thought into who's responsible for it - the station aired it, and that's where the buck stops.

As for chiding someone who listens to Korn, SOAD and Tool as being "elitist"...sorry, but I don't think that word means what you think it means. Those bands are populist.

I should know; I'm elitist.

 

[incoterm]

I have had this question but I think you all answered it for me, on VH1 classic they have this segment with Eddie Trunk and Terri Carr, they often speak of the radio background they came from. I know Eddie is a Q104 jock but I did not know the credentials of Ms. Carr. She seems to know her rock history, is she with G-Rock now and what is her claim to fame.....

is she that chick with the fake, ummm well knockers if I may, he was talking to about song writters?

 

[Batfink]

I wouldn't say not listening to Korn or Tool makes one elitist, perhaps just a purist. All that active rock crap hasn't helped the alternative format IMO, it only hurt it.

 

[SoulCrusher]

I personally am not even a Korn fan, but if a station has room in their playlist for bands like Shinedown, Buckcherry and The Black Crowes (who are all classic-inspired Rock bands, as opposed to Alternative), I don't see why Korn wouldn't fit in either. They count bands like Faith No More and Suicidal Tendencies among their influences, whereas the other three bands are inspired by acts like Led Zeppelin, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Aerosmith and Guns N' Roses. I'm not trying to be a Korn flag waver, but I think they have more of a place on the format than the other acts I mentioned.

Tool and SOAD, on the other hand, have something that makes them different from the status quo, both musically and lyrically. They're not singing "I wanna loooooovvvvvveeeee you, woman" like Shinedown - the world around them is what fuels their creative engines, and unlike the majority of people out there, they know it's not pretty. It is the very bleak, nihilistic picture that they paint that makes them heirs apparent to the Alternative acts of years past, at least from a lyrical point of view. Sure, SOAD will sometimes delve into utter lunacy ("Banana terracotta pie" and "Pepperoni and green peppers, mushrooms, olives, chives" are lines in some of their more absurd songs), but that's straight out of the Mike Patton playbook, and his projects never fit into the rock mainstream. The point I'm trying to make as this - Tool and SOAD (and even Korn) do have something that makes them stand out from the mainstream rock pack. And from a populist point of view, since the other current-playing rock station in the market (WRAT) seldom plays these acts, it makes sense to go after the demo that listens to these bands. G Rock takes so many liberties with the format that they can't be mentioned in the same breath as stations like Indie or The End, so adding these bands certainly couldn't hurt them in any way.

You mean the has-been wannabe goth "rockers," the "we're against Bush so we're popular" rockers, and the overall has-been rockers? See... I can generalize bands like you can too. I never said GRock spends so much time assessing the charts, I just use the charts as a reference. You use your elitist musical tastes.

I assume the "we're against Bush" statement was about Tool. No band more blatantly flies the "We Hate Bush" flag than G Rock's much-adored Green Day. The singles from their latest album were two direct assaults on the Bush administration, and two ballads aimed at the Lite-FM audience. Tool easily defies any kind of easy categorization, unlike Green Day whose aspiration to attain the title of "biggest band in the world" is as apparent as the day is long.

What I Got (6 spins), Smells Like Teen Spirit (4 spins), Alive (4 spins), Longview (3 spins), and Plush (3 spins plus one for the acoustic), are actually below the usual gold spin numbers on most stations. In fact, What I Got was the most spun gold track of the week... 6 spins for a Gold is well below how Alt stations will spin it 10+ times (I've seen as high as 16 and 17). That's twice a day for a Gold track. Once again, you over-exaggerate to make your point. GRock has a great rotation that keeps the music fresh.

Maybe it's just coincidence that during the relatively brief amount of time that I listen to the station these days, I wind up hearing these songs or other oft-repeated titles from the same artists. I honestly don't believe that G Rock pays any mind to burn - if they did, the station would be far less predictable and the playlist would consist of far fewer overplayed titles. Many stations have noted this and have played album tracks by Nirvana, Pearl Jam and STP in lieu of them. G Rock doesn't but would be well advised to give it a whirl - they have been down for two books and if they think that "excess disc jockey chatter" has something to do with it, they should think again.

And lose the novelty of it? Doing it every weekend woudl make people bored of it... and a lot of the songs aren't huge hits, more of the oh-wow factor. When you throw in an unfamiliar songs to the rotation, then TSL suffers.

We have a station in Atlantic City (WAYV, a Hot AC / Adult Top 40 station) that goes all '80s every weekend. They combine hits from the era with lots of infrequently heard tracks. And the station ranks in the Top 5 every book despite having quite a bit of competition.

I don't think G Rock should go Retro every weekend, but if the "overwhelmingly positive feedback" is for real, having it once a month couldn't hurt at all. It would capitalize on the feature's popularity without wearing out its welcome. And for the record, the Retro weekends don't consist of obscure punk, new wave and shoegaze bands - they mix in a good amount of popular bands (some big singles, some less popular material) with the "oh wow" songs.

Either that, or move The Breakfast Club to Saturday night (change the name to About Last Night, or something) or run some other special feature. While other stations are having a dance party, an all-request show or some other special feature, G Rock feature the same old safe programming that's on the majority of the time. It may seem like they have a good rotation, but the genre has been around long enough that they have so many Gold titles that have been played to death to the point that only the kids (who G Rock panders to a little too much) are not sick of them by now.

Shinedown isn't sophisticated? I believe they are. They are great sounding musicians that craft great songs. Again, it's a battle of personal tastes, and yours don't match that of GRock... and again, they're not programming to YOUR specific tastes.

Shinedown are an earnest straight-up no frills Southern Rock band with aspirations of headlining arenas, and they have a very slick polished sound - their dreams may very well come true. But this is the problem with bands of their ilk: the lyrics are that blue-collar aesthetic that we've heard so much going back to Led Zeppelin and Bad Company. A whole slew of "she done me wrong" and "I love my girl" songs that are more prevalent in today's Country music than any current-based Rock format, with plainspoken lyrics to boot. There's nothing wrong with that, but playing it on Alternative just confuses me. It spurs the "What is/isn't Alternative?" debate. Really, you could just throw in a fiddle and play it between Toby Keith and Big & Rich and no one would raise an eyebrow. My friend was playing their latest CD not too long ago and I thought "This is what the Marshall Tucker Band or the Allman Brothers sound like if they were a four-piece". Most of today's Country music sounds closer to that than Johnny Cash or Merle Haggard.

Shinedown are decent enough musicians and write catchy songs, but they lack any kind of originality, personality or charisma. I think the music industry really only has room for one band like that (hello, Nickelback). Shinedown has some work to do if they're going to make it to the next level, because they seem to imitate their influences rather than simply taking inspiration from them.

 

[hotpatrick2004]

Soulcrusher you are lucky at least g rock does play a cool tune every now and again. In my hometown we have this awful station wlrs that reports as alternative but really is just a active rock station with a few alt tunes thrown in and of course the tired ole even flow and teen spirit and cult and alice and chains. It truly is an awful station.Radio one owns them they own mostly urban formatted stations and they play it very very safe. Far safer then g rock.G rock has played jesus of suburbia wlrs won't touch that.

My favorite station in the countryis indie 1031 in la.They have a new pd starting in a month i hope just like your alls new pd do a good job.Max tolkoff is the guy.He comes from boostons wfnx which when i see there playlist is a well programmed alt station. Also give wwwcd101.com a listen.

I agree with your posts soulcrusher but what can ya do?It is what it is.

 

[raydofan]

Radio: "We play what we want."

Me: "Me too."

Here's a shattering notion: why not play something I *might* want?


(Remember, back in the 60's, rock 'n' roll stations would actually infiltrate record plants to get new records on the air before the competition. Where'd *that* attitude go?)

The consultants buried those attitudes, along with 'useless dj patter'.

Frankly, I think commercial radio has stunted the ability of its audience to appreciate anything different. Which was, come to think of it, probably its goal.

Heh. You can witness the result at the new WHAT (owned by consultants) in Philly: basically it's an 'avid music fan-non-radio person' whose knowledge stops at 1990. Oh, and that one Bob Marley record.

 

[Beejus]

Beejus,


As for chiding someone who listens to Korn, SOAD and Tool as being "elitist"...sorry, but I don't think that word means what you think it means. Those bands are populist.

I am calling him elitist not because he likes Tool and System of a Down. I like both bands, and don't turn the radio off or skip them if they come up on my iPod. I am calling him an elitist because (as I've pointed out before), he looks down on bands by name only. Calling Fall Out Boy and Panic! at the Disco "teenage girl" music and Jet and Shinedown "music for forklift drivers" doesn't seem elitist to you? He puts these bands down just because it doesn't fit HIS view of Alternative. He is basing his opinion on the fact that a band appeared in TigerBeat or whatever magazine, not on music.

 

[SoulCrusher]

Soulcrusher you are lucky at least g rock does play a cool tune every now and again. In my hometown we have this awful station wlrs that reports as alternative but really is just a active rock station with a few alt tunes thrown in and of course the tired ole even flow and teen spirit and cult and alice and chains. It truly is an awful station.Radio one owns them they own mostly urban formatted stations and they play it very very safe. Far safer then g rock.G rock has played jesus of suburbia wlrs won't touch that.

My favorite station in the countryis indie 1031 in la.They have a new pd starting in a month i hope just like your alls new pd do a good job.Max tolkoff is the guy.He comes from boostons wfnx which when i see there playlist is a well programmed alt station. Also give wwwcd101.com a listen.

I agree with your posts soulcrusher but what can ya do?It is what it is.

Basically, the Alternative format has been diluted since the early '90s. I liked some of Nirvana's stuff, but that whole period changed the overall sound of the format. We have acts receiving airplay on the station that never would have even received one spin on Alternative 20 years ago. I'm happy to see certain stations out there that are fighting the good fight, but unfortunately the majority of stations that identify themselves as Alternative today go after frat boys (the station you described) or young women (G Rock), neither of which were the format's target demo before the grunge explosion.

I consider G Rock a station that targets women because of the heavy amount of soft ballads that they play (they play lots of Staind songs, but no "Mudshovel" - only the mushy stuff. Ditto for Fuel), because they refuse to play edgier acts like Tool or SOAD, and because of their advertising which features a commercial that repeats the phrase "Beautify Your Body, Baby" and heavy promotion for a bridal show in the area. They will sometimes surprise you (I heard them play Morrissey's "Suedehead" early one morning), but the people that would have been excited to hear that had probably tuned out when they played some sappy Chili Peppers song for the billionth time.

As for new PD Terri Carr - we'll see if her voice will be heard. Word has it that the folks at Press are really strict and are really the ones that are steering the ship at G Rock. And judging by the general safe approach to the format (in contrast to Adult Contemporary sister station "The Breeze", which has a very eclectic playlist with few repeats), they don't display much passion for the sound at G Rock - then again, these are the same people that blew up FM 106.3 in a heartbeat so that should come as little surprise. Many PDs have come and gone in the 6+ years that Press has operated G Rock, so we'll see if Carr's experience will give her at least some influence on the station's direction.

I am calling him elitist not because he likes Tool and System of a Down. I like both bands, and don't turn the radio off or skip them if they come up on my iPod. I am calling him an elitist because (as I've pointed out before), he looks down on bands by name only. Calling Fall Out Boy and Panic! at the Disco "teenage girl" music and Jet and Shinedown "music for forklift drivers" doesn't seem elitist to you? He puts these bands down just because it doesn't fit HIS view of Alternative. He is basing his opinion on the fact that a band appeared in TigerBeat or whatever magazine, not on music.

It's a stereotype, but it has merit. None of my male friends listen to FOB and P!ATD - in fact they often poke fun at both bands. Have they ever been on the cover of CMJ, or even Alternative Press which at least is slightly more credible than mags like Rolling Stone and Blender? I'll take a shot in the dark by saying that any band whose members' favorite colors and shoe sizes are frequently discussed are likely not popular with most men out there. As for Jet and Shinedown - the sounds of both bands are heavily derived from the trucker rock bands of the past ... but unlike The Darkness and their tongue-in-cheek take on glam rock, there isn't any hint that these bands are not completely serious. I recently saw an article explaining the success of the like-minded band Hinder, and they talked about the tremendous support that they had from radio stations in the Southern part of the U.S. These bands are both in the same boat. Of course, that isn't saying that there is no one outside of that region that listens to these bands, but the South is where they have easily their most loyal following. The music and lyrics are simple and blue collar to the core and that resonates deeply with people in that part of the country. It helps to keep in mind that you won't find an Alternative like FNX or Indie out there either - most of the people that live in that region can't identify with the subject matter prevalent in the songs on that type of Alternative.

 

[incoterm]

dude get XM... 12.99 a month... you will never need to listen to Grock again...

 

[eatspaste]

We have a station in Atlantic City (WAYV, a Hot AC / Adult Top 40 station) that goes all '80s every weekend. They combine hits from the era with lots of infrequently heard tracks. And the station ranks in the Top 5 every book despite having quite a bit of competition.

And it tanked in the last book, too. Weekends were down nearly 50%; WAYV tied Kool 98.3 12+!

 

[SoulCrusher]

dude get XM... 12.99 a month... you will never need to listen to Grock again...

You mean the company that hasn't made a profit in any year of its existence and has now been forced to merge with its competitor Sirius?

I had given it some thought given the variety of formats and the fact that they do the Alternative format justice with several different, deeper takes on it, but picking it up is a risky proposition considering that they could be pulling the plug tomorrow. It's a shame, really - I was really rooting for it to succeed hoping it would be a wake up call to radio programmers and their phoned-in, safe and unimaginative stations. This merger is clearly an indication of a last gasp, an attempt to get more air to either stay afloat until they reach shore or to go down for the last time. It will probably result in the dissolution of several stations and likely an increase in price to go along with it as well. And if this merger doesn't wind up saving XM/Sirius - you're left with nothing more than a glorified coaster that you paid $100 for. Sirius in particular did all they could - they paid Howard Stern and Mel Karmazin exorbitant amounts of money to work for them, but the resources have dried up and this merger was the only thing that saved them from Chapter 11. I wish the new company luck, but it will need all it can get.

 

[eatspaste]

I had given it some thought given the variety of formats and the fact that they do the Alternative format justice with several different, deeper takes on it, but picking it up is a risky proposition considering that they could be pulling the plug tomorrow.

Pull the plug tomorrow? That's as likely as every AM and FM station going off the air in the next 24 hours. There are billions of dollars invested in programming, technology, equipment, research & development, marketing, etc. between XM and Sirius. What it is right now isn't going anywhere. If/when the merger happens, they won't be "pulling the plug." It's "risky" to buy a $14 XM Radio (on ebay) and activate it for $10? Get real.

I've never listened to G-Rock and I'm right in the middle of their target demo. Why? I have XM! 106.3/106.5 has yet to give me one reason why I should be listening to them.

 

[hubcity]

It's "risky" to buy a $14 XM Radio (on ebay) and activate it for $10? Get real.

...at least until you ask yourself, "Why is this $100 electronic device auctioning for a high bid of $14?"

 

[mjb1124]

Re: Terri Carr at G-Rock

As I have pointed out before, there are generally two types of Alternatives out there: The all encompassing mainstream Alternative that plays everything from The Killers to Tool to Shinedown (most CBS and Clear Channel rock stations) and the classic-leaning stations that hew closer to Alternative tradition by eschewing arena rock acts like Shinedown and Buckcherry from their format (The End in Seattle, FNX in Boston, Indie in Santa Monica). G Rock is neither.

I would say that G Rock is a happy medium between those two types of stations. They're more in touch with "Alternative tradition" and are more willing to play a lesser hit than most of those CBS/Clear Channel powerhouses, but they're n ot as elitist as a station like KNDD. I don't feel that Alternative stations should be ignoring many of the most popular songs just because they don't fit the station's definition of what "Alternative" is. I also feel that those stations lean too heavily towards gold tracks.

It's an Alternative station that targets Women by emphasizing female-friendly bands (The Killers, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Green Day, Weezer, Incubus and My Chemical Romance among them) along with tons of soft ballads from aforementioned acts and others, and excluding the heavier side of the format (no Tool, System Of A Down or Rage Against The Machine here).

I don't work for the station so I couldn't actually tell you what their aims are, but the way it sounds to me, they're not specifically targeting women, but rather a more mature audience that isn't in the hard-rock mindset. I'm a 22-year-old guy and I happen to love RHCP, Green Day, Weezer, and Incubus, and I'm nowhere near the only guy at my college who does. Believe it or not, many guys' tastes lean "soft".

And no, I don't like that they're excluding bands like Tool, SOAD, and RATM, but that's really my only major problem with the station. And even so, I'd rather have a lack of those bands than an overabundance of bands like Godsmack and Disturbed.

It's a station that employs heavy repetition, giving several played-out hits at least one spin a day if not more ("Alive", "Longview", "Interstate Love Song", etc.)

Maybe they could stand to play those songs a little less, but as someone else in this thread noted, there are plenty of other Alternative stations that play those songs quite a bit more. I remember that I couldn't even stand to hear certain '90s songs (The Offspring's "Self Esteem" comes to mind) because of how much K-Rock used to play them, and there are still many stations that are like that. They also play quite a few gold songs that I hadn't heard in years before I started listening to G-Rock regularly, and even some that I hadn't previously heard at all.

and keeping certain songs in heavy rotation for months (the Incubus song "Anna Molly" comes to mind).

I will agree with you there, but let's face it, the entire format is moving way too slowly these days. Just look at the charts. Even the more "indie"/"classic alternative"-leaning stations overplay current songs like that.

Their lack of reverance for the format's roots allows them to play arena rockers like Shinedown and Stone Sour - probably because they came out with songs that fit the Hot AC format, like "I Dare You" and "Through Glass" respectively.

I happen to think Shinedown fits the format - IMO, they're more comparable to Soundgarden than to bands like Nickelback. Stone Sour, I'm not so sure about, but let's face it, they're song was a big Alternative hit nationally.

Last but not least, put the specialty shows on at times when people can hear them. So many stations have special programming on Saturday nights - on G Rock, it's just the same old "Playing the biggest Modern Rock hits of the last 15 years with [insert name here]". The DJ isn't allowed to cut loose with dialogue, and the music is still as safe as it is any other time. Does that sound appealing? Not really. Hence the reason why some people have tuned out. It's time for a different show in this time slot ... either '80s, All Request, Techno, Reggae, Punk/Ska, or some other theme. Guaranteed more people will tune in, regardless of the show.

This I'll agree with. I've heard some really cool stuff during both Common Threads and the Breakfast Club, but usually I'm half-asleep while listening to them. That said, as of yesterday the '90s At Noon is now the Retro Request Hour and is incorporating '80s stuff. In fact, yesterday's show was nearly all '80s - I hope they find a balance soon. (By the way, Terri Carr has now taken over middays, with Brooke Connolly moving to evenings.) They do also have The Underground on Sunday nights, which spotlights a lot of up-and-coming bands.

I do love those retro weekends, and it would be nice if they could do them a little more often, but only maybe every 6 weeks at most. As someone else noted, having them too often would cause the novelty to wear off. People need to hear new music on weekends too.

So to sum it up...Yes, they could stand to be a little more diverse with their gold offerings, and to be a little more progressive with new music, but they could also be a lot worse in those senses, as many stations are. And yes, I wish they wouldn't be restrictive about harder stuff, but honestly I can't really think of any popular heavy bands other than Tool, RATM, SOAD, and maybe Korn that really belong on Alternative in my opinion. That's just four bands they shun, compared to many great bands they do play. All in all, G Rock may not be perfect, but it is closer to my idea of a good Alternative station than either of the extremes you mentioned early in your post.

 

[tom]

It's "risky" to buy a $14 XM Radio (on ebay) and activate it for $10? Get real.

...at least until you ask yourself, "Why is this $100 electronic device auctioning for a high bid of $14?"

What is a couple year old $ 2000 computer worth today ? $ 50 ??
How about a cell phone from last year that cost $ 300 new ? $ 25 ?

 

[SoulCrusher]

More notes on G Rock:

Terri Carr has now taken the midday shift once occupied by Brooke Connolly, who has moved to nights. A new feature is on at noon - Retro Request Hour. This is definitely a step in the right direction, and if the requests thus far are any indication, the listeners are fans of '80s Alternative. That proves what I've been saying all along - G Rock really needs to look beyond Nirvana for its regular rotation.

Here's another area in which the station can improve: sequencing. Take a look at the block of songs that were played today, indicative of G Rock's struggles:

3:21pm Velvet Revolver Fall To Pieces (a.k.a. November Rain II)
3:18pm Violent Femmes Blister In The Sun
3:14pm Red Hot Chili Peppers Snow (Hey Oh) (these guys should tour with Barry Manilow)
3:10pm Smashing Pumpkins Disarm
3:07pm Shiny Toy Guns Le Disko
3:04pm Linkin Park Breaking The Habit (these guys have lots of pain and suffering, poor saps - nothing some groupies and a kegger can't fix)
2:59pm Oasis Wonderwall

Proof that perhaps G Rock is pandering too much to Females? Here it is. 5 out of these 7 songs could have easily been played on PLJ, or maybe even Lite-FM. I don't have issues with these acts (except for the "rawk" band Velvet Revolver and the whiny frat boys Linkin Park, who arguably shouldn't even be on a station that calls themselves Alternative), but they could have done better in the track selection department for this particular block - how about playing "Supersonic" or "Bullet With Butterfly Wings" instead?

Also disappointing - the following songs that belong on Radio Disney instead of an Alternative:

5:06pm Blink 182 All The Small Things
1:58pm Wheatus Teenage Dirtbag

You want anyone other than giddy little girls to tune out? Go ahead, play these songs and be prepared for a click so loud that it registers on the Richter Scale.

On the positive end of things - here's a few tracks that are seldom ever heard during the regular rotation, perhaps indicating that Terri is having a positive influence on the station's direction already.

2:27pm U2 In God's Country
1:19pm The Cure Why Can't I Be You?
11:27am Temple Of The Dog Say Hello To Heaven
11:24am The Cure Boys Don't Cry
11:16am Social Distortion Bad Luck
10:57am Urge Overkill Sister Havana

They have been making quite a few personnel changes in recent months, but what really matters is the execution of the station. You can't use a CHR approach with the Alternative format by slamming the currents and recurrents incessantly over the course of several months - that is what had an adverse effect on G Rock's ratings in my mind. If they make more of an effort to listen to their audience, they will prosper. They are making a move in the right direction - we'll see if it continues.

 

[Beejus]

More notes on G Rock:

Here's another area in which the station can improve: sequencing. Take a look at the block of songs that were played today, indicative of G Rock's struggles:

3:21pm Velvet Revolver Fall To Pieces
3:18pm Violent Femmes Blister In The Sun
3:14pm Red Hot Chili Peppers Snow (Hey Oh)
3:10pm Smashing Pumpkins Disarm
3:07pm Shiny Toy Guns Le Disko
3:04pm Linkin Park Breaking The Habit
2:59pm Oasis Wonderwall

Proof that perhaps G Rock is pandering too much to Females? Here it is. 5 out of these 7 songs could have easily been played on PLJ, or maybe even Lite-FM. I don't have issues with these acts (except for the "rawk" band Velvet Revolver and the whiny frat boys Linkin Park, who arguably shouldn't even be on a station that calls themselves Alternative), but they could have done better in the track selection department for this particular block - how about playing "Supersonic" or "Bullet With Butterfly Wings" instead?

That looks like a solid Alternative set to me. All the artists are Alternative artists, have had hits at Alternative, or are new Alternative (Shiny Toy Guns). Sure, there is crossover... there is ALWAYS going to be crossover. Just because it is a hit on Top 40 or Hot AC radio doesn't mean it doesn't belong on Alternative. I'm not even going to touch your obsession with bashing the artists. And to continue to prove that you over-exaggerate your claims (even though you pay no attention and continue to complain on like a broken record)... out of ALL of those songs listed... Oasis-Wonderwall was spun ONCE in the past seven days on WPLJ, and NO spins on WLTW. Nice comparison you got yourself going there. Any other bold claims you'd like for me to refute?

Also disappointing - the following songs that belong on Radio Disney instead of an Alternative:

5:06pm Blink 182 All The Small Things
1:58pm Wheatus Teenage Dirtbag


You want anyone other than giddy little girls to tune out? Go ahead, play these songs and be prepared for a click so loud that it registers on the Richter Scale.

First... Teenage Dirtbag would never get played on Radio Disney. Content is too harsh. Both these songs were Alternative hits, and they still are liked by the listening audience. I'm 23 and like these songs, I have friends, male and female in their 20s and 30s who still love these songs. They're fun, they're Alternative.

You can't use a CHR approach with the Alternative format by slamming the currents and recurrents incessantly over the course of several months

Again, I have pointed out, and again, you have completely ignored my facts. GRock's spins are usually below what other Alternative stations crank out each week, both for currents and for golds. They're not bringing a CHR approach. A CHR approach would be banging their top songs 60+ times a week. GRock's top track spun 29 times in the past seven days. Far from a CHR approach.

Keep your absurd claims comin' buddy. I've got facts to knock them all down.

 

[eatspaste]

...at least until you ask yourself, "Why is this $100 electronic device auctioning for a high bid of $14?"

I didn't say you were going to get a top-of-the-line XM radio for $14.

If you wanted "a" XM radio (in this case, a Roady2) , just to hear the service, you can get one for around $14. That's roughly the same price of a clock radio. XM and Siruis radios parallel AM/FM radios. Older ones that don't do much are cheap, newer ones that do much more cost more.

Hell, if $14 is too much, sign-up for a free 3 day trial on-line. Both offer 'em.

 

[SoulCrusher]

That looks like a solid Alternative set to me. All the artists are Alternative artists, have had hits at Alternative, or are new Alternative (Shiny Toy Guns). Sure, there is crossover... there is ALWAYS going to be crossover. Just because it is a hit on Top 40 or Hot AC radio doesn't mean it doesn't belong on Alternative. I'm not even going to touch your obsession with bashing the artists. And to continue to prove that you over-exaggerate your claims (even though you pay no attention and continue to complain on like a broken record)... out of ALL of those songs listed... Oasis-Wonderwall was spun ONCE in the past seven days on WPLJ, and NO spins on WLTW. Nice comparison you got yourself going there. Any other bold claims you'd like for me to refute?

You may have a point there, but 5 out of those 7 songs (excluding Violent Femmes and Shiny Toy Guns) could easily fit right in between Rob Thomas and Kelly Clarkson, and no one would raise an eyebrow. The point I was trying to make is that G Rock should do a better job trying to serve its audience instead of going after the soccer moms and cheerleader daughters. All of those songs have a place on the format (even though I could take or leave VR and LP, it can't be disputed that they chart well), but they should be spaced out a little bit and more energetic songs should be played instead. What I pointed out was an issue related to sequencing as opposed to content.

First... Teenage Dirtbag would never get played on Radio Disney. Content is too harsh. Both these songs were Alternative hits, and they still are liked by the listening audience. I'm 23 and like these songs, I have friends, male and female in their 20s and 30s who still love these songs. They're fun, they're Alternative.

I've listened to Radio Disney with my niece enough to know that they play edited versions of Bowling For Soup songs, so why couldn't they do the same for Wheatus? Replace d--k with jerk, gun with toy, a$$ with butt, damn with darn, and you're good to go. It's a sugary bubblegum love song that was on the soundtrack of some teen movie, so it would sound right at home on RD - just take out the objectionable words.

Again, I have pointed out, and again, you have completely ignored my facts. GRock's spins are usually below what other Alternative stations crank out each week, both for currents and for golds. They're not bringing a CHR approach. A CHR approach would be banging their top songs 60+ times a week. GRock's top track spun 29 times in the past seven days. Far from a CHR approach.

Keep your absurd claims comin' buddy. I've got facts to knock them all down.

That statement was relative. No, they don't play songs 70+ times like a lot of CHRs out there. But they do go up to about 30 spins and keep songs in rather high rotation for months! I heard them play "When You Were Young" by The Killers no less than three times in the last 24 hours - for a track that's been out upward of six months, that's ridiculous. They really need to pay more attention to burn, as that could have resulted in their loss of listeners. The Killers are one of those bands I could take or leave (I've always found them a little safe and bland, one of those "we wanna be the biggest band in the world" type groups), but even their biggest fans have to be tired of that track by now. Meanwhile, how often does the band that inspired their name (New Order) get played? Aside from an occasional spin for "Blue Monday" and The Breakfast Club, not often.

 

[SoulCrusher]

Re: Terri Carr at G-Rock

I would say that G Rock is a happy medium between those two types of stations. They're more in touch with "Alternative tradition" and are more willing to play a lesser hit than most of those CBS/Clear Channel powerhouses, but they're n ot as elitist as a station like KNDD. I don't feel that Alternative stations should be ignoring many of the most popular songs just because they don't fit the station's definition of what "Alternative" is. I also feel that those stations lean too heavily towards gold tracks.

You are right about the admittedly elitist sound of Alternatives like The End and Indie, but that could very well be because of all the generic post-grunge rock and nu-metal on the charts in the '00s. The audience they're after doesn't care for Hinder, Bush, Fall Out Boy or Limp Bizkit for one reason or another and they can afford to program a station like this - these markets (Seattle in particular) have a high percentage of the population favoring Rock music. But the format is returning to its roots somewhat and it wouldn't surprise me to see them play more currents as time goes on.

I don't work for the station so I couldn't actually tell you what their aims are, but the way it sounds to me, they're not specifically targeting women, but rather a more mature audience that isn't in the hard-rock mindset. I'm a 22-year-old guy and I happen to love RHCP, Green Day, Weezer, and Incubus, and I'm nowhere near the only guy at my college who does. Believe it or not, many guys' tastes lean "soft".

One person at G Rock once told me that they're going for a "happy, fun" sound at the station. That's funny - before the grunge explosion, the format was known for having featured many dark and brooding acts, and bands like Staind and Linkin Park (the softer material of both is played often at G Rock) are not exactly what anyone would call happy and fun.

I don't mind any of the female-friendly bands I referred to, but the station leans too heavily on the soft stuff for an Alternative and lacks diverse selections in some instances (In Weezer's case: Too much Make Believe and absolutely no Pinkerton, or even Maladroit).

And no, I don't like that they're excluding bands like Tool, SOAD, and RATM, but that's really my only major problem with the station. And even so, I'd rather have a lack of those bands than an overabundance of bands like Godsmack and Disturbed.

If I had to pick one thing that rubs me the wrong way, it's the exclusion of those acts. They find the time to play plenty of frivolous here-today-gone-tomorrow pop acts but won't play the bands that have something to say. The lyrical content used by Tool, SOAD and RATM is what sets them apart from the bands that are often considered their peers. Add to that the strong chart performance all of these acts have had, not to mention the fact that WRAT (the other Rocker in the market) seldom ever plays these acts, and there really is no reason that I can see why they should be excluded. G Rock's predecessor, FM 106.3, played Tool and RATM quite a bit. The only thing I could think of is that perhaps the folks that run G Rock disagree with the viewpoints of these bands (one possible hint: they do play Bush-loving bands like Fuel quite often).

I will agree with you there [on repetition of currents], but let's face it, the entire format is moving way too slowly these days. Just look at the charts. Even the more "indie"/"classic alternative"-leaning stations overplay current songs like that.

G Rock is giving certain older tracks as much as three spins a day right now ("Steady As She Goes" and "When You Were Young" come to mind). That could have something to do with the typical limited album release schedule of the first quarter, but I think they could be a little bit more proactive with the adds. There's a station in Atlantic City (WJSE) that is way ahead of G Rock when it comes to the amount of currents - their big downside is that their general sound is a wild amalgamation of alternative, hard rock and classic rock. It's not unusual to hear Aerosmith followed by The Killers, or AC/DC followed by Taking Back Sunday. It seems that just about every station has a couple of kinks that could be worked on.

I happen to think Shinedown fits the format - IMO, they're more comparable to Soundgarden than to bands like Nickelback. Stone Sour, I'm not so sure about, but let's face it, they're song was a big Alternative hit nationally.

My friend is a big Shinedown fan. I have heard parts of both albums, and while the first one has some harder tracks that seem influenced by the likes of Soundgarden, the second has a far more middle of the road sound with many tracks suited for crossover appeal. "I Dare You" is a perfect example of that - it could easily have been recorded by Nickelback. "Heroes" could fit in on their first album, but other than that it seems they were trying too hard to write hit songs instead of being remotely creative.

My cousin bought the first Stone Sour album for "Bother" and hated the rest of it - said it was too heavy and had too much screaming for him. I listened to some of it - "Get Inside" could have been a Slipknot castoff. Some of their songs even pop up on Music Choice's Metal channel, to give you an idea that some of their stuff is on the heavy end of things. "Through Glass" is an obvious bid for the soccer mom audience, but judging by what I've heard, the big hits don't exactly represent their sound.

I do love those retro weekends, and it would be nice if they could do them a little more often, but only maybe every 6 weeks at most. As someone else noted, having them too often would cause the novelty to wear off. People need to hear new music on weekends too.

One change that they could make would be to start digging deeper into the vault and playing more retro tracks. I really doubt someone is going to call up asking to hear "Smells Like Teen Spirit" on the Retro Request Hour - or most of the gold that G Rock plays, for that matter. Keep the rotation fresh, especially for the people that listen at work. I have to tune out at the office sometimes because things become too stale. Hopefully G Rock will make a note of the requests being made during this time period and use that to influence their regular playlist.