• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Gainesville / Marc Radio

amfmxm said:
Uh... Lakeland-Winter Haven... Miami-Ft. Lauderdale-Hollywood... Ft. Myers-Naples-Marco Island... Tampa-St. Petersburg... Dallas-Fort Worth... Greenville-Spartanburg... Greenville-New Bern-Jacksonville... Albany-Schenectady-Troy...

There's a boatload of them. Go to either www.arbitron.com or www.****************** for the whole list.

I can put a knife right into this. First Lakeland-Winter Haven doesn't even come close to being like Ocala-Gainesville. Second, both Lakelanf and Winter Haven are in the same county and are really not that far apart. Third most signals in Miami and Fort Lauderdale cover Miami-Dade and Broward counties pretty well without issue. Fourth, name a market that has more Class A, C3 and C2 signals than C1 and C0 signals? Melbourne doesn't even have this issue as badly as Gainesville and Ocala does. What needs to be done is split the market back up and let it be that.
 
amfmxm said:
Uh... Lakeland-Winter Haven... Miami-Ft. Lauderdale-Hollywood... Ft. Myers-Naples-Marco Island... Tampa-St. Petersburg... Dallas-Fort Worth... Greenville-Spartanburg... Greenville-New Bern-Jacksonville... Albany-Schenectady-Troy...

There's a boatload of them. Go to either www.arbitron.com or www.****************** for the whole list.


Yes, there are a lot of markets with more than one population center. The point was that Ocala and Gainesville are quite different from each other and this market differs from most other 'hyphenated' markets in many ways. Prior to combining, Gainesville and Ocala were each rated as individual markets. Combining was done at the request of the sole Arbitron subscriber of the time, WKTK. They wanted it because it raised the market rank about 100 places to the top 100. Also, since very few signals covered both towns, they were assured of being in the top 2 or 3.

It would be an easy mistake to assume, that because one had experience in another split market, that the experience would translate to this situation.
 
Kmagrill said:
amfmxm said:
Uh... Lakeland-Winter Haven... Miami-Ft. Lauderdale-Hollywood... Ft. Myers-Naples-Marco Island... Tampa-St. Petersburg... Dallas-Fort Worth... Greenville-Spartanburg... Greenville-New Bern-Jacksonville... Albany-Schenectady-Troy...

There's a boatload of them. Go to either www.arbitron.com or www.****************** for the whole list.


Yes, there are a lot of markets with more than one population center. The point was that Ocala and Gainesville are quite different from each other and this market differs from most other 'hyphenated' markets in many ways. Prior to combining, Gainesville and Ocala were each rated as individual markets. Combining was done at the request of the sole Arbitron subscriber of the time, WKTK. They wanted it because it raised the market rank about 100 places to the top 100. Also, since very few signals covered both towns, they were assured of being in the top 2 or 3.

It would be an easy mistake to assume, that because one had experience in another split market, that the experience would translate to this situation.

Exactly
 
Seriously? Albany and Schenectady are about 15 miles (if even) apart as the crow flies.

Greenville-Spartanburg is about 20 miles, with quite a few Class C and C1's.

Tampa-St.Pete is less than 15 miles (and mostly over water) and has a plethora of C and C1's as well.

As has been pointed out, G-O has mostly Class A's with a few C2's and C1's and only one C0.
 
ThatGuyOnTheRadio said:
Seriously? Albany and Schenectady are about 15 miles (if even) apart as the crow flies.

Greenville-Spartanburg is about 20 miles, with quite a few Class C and C1's.

Tampa-St.Pete is less than 15 miles (and mostly over water) and has a plethora of C and C1's as well.

As has been pointed out, G-O has mostly Class A's with a few C2's and C1's and only one C0.

Thirty miles is a long way when you don't have heat or height.
 
LOL. I knew this would light somebody up.

We could nit-pick all day. I have friends who live and work in Fort Worth who insist that their fair city is NOTHING like Dallas--and resent being tossed into the same pot.

And I have other friends who live in Pompano Beach (Fort Lauderdale) who cringe at being slung in with Miami.

I was a PD in GSP. Spartanburg is a proud blue-collar town. Greenville promotes itself as the cutting-edge progressive metropolis. Two separate counties... two separate worlds. Kind of like Troy and Albany...
 
The fact is regardless of the distance, each hyphenated market outlined here consist of two or more separate cities that are distinctly demographically different from each other.

In the case of Lakeland - Winter Haven, only two market stations cover the entire market. Those stations are Hall Communications' WPCV and WWRZ which are the only local FMs in the market. The AMs do not cover the entire market. Lakeland has its stations that cover Lakeland while Winter Haven has its AMs that cover Winter Haven. This is true of most hyphenated markets including Fort Myers - Naples, Miami - Fort Lauderdale, Melbourne - Cocoa - Titusville, Tampa - Saint Petersburg - Largo and Sarasota - Bradenton.

As for Ocala - Gainesville, the merging of the two cities into one metro started years before WKTK made the official request that Arbitron combine the two cities into one MSA although there were few signals that could have become full market signals. WRYO 98.5, WFUZ 93.7 and WRUF-FM 103.7 were the only radio candidates at the time that could become full market signals. WFUZ and WRYO filed with the FCC to upgrade early while WRUF-FM waited too long and lost its full C status and is now site restricted due to WFUS 103.5 Gulfport. When WBSP-TV Ocala (now WOGX-TV) first signed on the air in April of 1983, Big Sun TV, Inc. intended from the beginning to target Gainesville in addition to Ocala with local independent television service to compete directly against WCJB-TV 20 when its 1,000 foot tower was constructed near Williston providing primary coverage over Gainesville. Soon after, Ocala's WFUZ 93.7 (now WOGK) began identifying as WFUZ Ocala - Gainesville. Shortly thereafter WRYO 98.5 (Now WKTK) Crystal River completed its new 1,347 foot tower construction near Morriston giving 98.5 primary coverage over Gainesville and Ocala in addition to its COL Crystal River, and began identifying itself in its legal ID as WKTK Crystal River - Gainesville - Ocala. Soon following, Entercom made the official request to Arbitron to combine the two cities into one Gainesville - Ocala MSA with several outlying counties added to the TSA. This move placed Gainesville - Ocala into the Top 100 Arbitron rated markets.
 
I went to UF decades ago and wonder how much the area has changed. Anyone have any views? Also, I would be interested if anyone could record the news on dvd so I could get a flavor for the area. I have gone to wcjb 20's website and see they have some short video clips but not the whole news. Thanks!
 
stevations said:
I went to UF decades ago and wonder how much the area has changed. Anyone have any views? Also, I would be interested if anyone could record the news on dvd so I could get a flavor for the area. I have gone to wcjb 20's website and see they have some short video clips but not the whole news. Thanks!

How long ago were you at UF?

Media wise, one of the biggest changes is in the number of local tv channels. Harvey Budd, who started out as a radio owner, has invested heavily in local TV. Gainesville has its own NBC and CBS affiliates as well as the legacy ABC and Fox stations. With the Advent of HDTV, there are now multiple over the air TV channels available including CW, MeTV, Movies!, three PBS channels and others. For additional local news, the CBS affiliate runs local news competing with WCJB. Try www.mygtn.tv for more info.
 
1980 Big news was cable tv started showing HBO A couple of AM stations were good Top 40. FM stations sounded a bit like underground rock. Has the city changed much? Looking at WCJB web clips seems like the place lost its small town charm? Any thoughts? Traffic was never bad and people were friendly back then. Once you left the city limits the locals could spot a college person and acted like they had a ten foot pole if you did not have their heavy accent. People would bring in chickens to work if they hatched and needed attention. I have more of an interest in the city than the media. Back then there was no Ocala TV station. WCJB showed the Real McCoys. The main tv commercial was for manufactured homes and the guy would scream his head off. When he gave the phone number and got to a zero ....he would sort of howl like a wolf or dog. I don't remember any real bad crime areas of the city but that seems to have changed.
 
Gainesville's character has changed a lot in 30 years. For at least the past 25 years, the city has been run by Sophomores (sophisticated morons). That is to say, people who have a lot of social engineering theories but very little practical experience. Generally, they believe that automobiles are evil, so they have avoided road repairs or improvements, opting instead to remove lanes of traffic to make the city more pedestrian friendly. The resultant traffic problems have caused numerous business failures in the affected areas and caused growth in the outlying areas. About 60% of the land has been bought by the government, so the remaining property has to be taxed at the second highest rate in the state after West Palm Beach. We are actively building a 2 billion dollar, boondoggle, biomass power plant that is expected to drive up lumber prices all over the southeastern USA and will increase energy rates locally making GRU the most expensive utility in the southeast. I could go on for hours, but you get the idea.

Crime is still pretty low, but the city encourages vagrants and transients to come and stay here. In 1990, a homeless man named Danny Rolling made national headlines when he murdered five college students, for fun, over the course of a week. Gainesville has seen limited growth and remains primarily a support system for UF and for Santa Fe college. Between the two schools, there are now more than 65,000 college students here, up about 50% from the 1980s. Ocala, supported by diversified industries, is now bigger than Gainesville and is projected to continue getting bigger. Business, outside of the University, is discouraged in Gainesville, though peripheral cities like Alachua and Newberry have thrived as a result. Both Alachua and Newberry have annexed large tracts of land with an eye towards eventually replacing Gainesville as the seat of power.

In radio, quite a lot changed in the '80s and '90s. In 1981, WGVL, the album rock station, switched to CHR. It was an instant hit and the AM stations were broke within two years. About the same time, WRUF-FM switched from beautiful music to AOR, a format that survived for 30 years until WRUF-FM switched to country recently. WXJZ, currently a light AC/jazz blend, signed on as WMFM at 100.9 at the same time. In the 1990s, WBXY (99.5) and WNDT (92.5) came online locally. In Ocala, WNDD (95.5) was added. Today, there are no local AM stations playing music. There is quite a bit of variety on the FM dial. There are now more than 10 local FM signals and many rimshots available in the market. Country, classic hits, talk, AC and CHR/Urban comprise the top formats. Many of the smaller stations struggle to stay alive. If your audience share is a 0.4, it's hard to sell spots.
 
Jeff said:
Just curious…why does Pamal still list the Gainesville & Pensacola stations on their website??? They haven't owned the stations for a couple of years.

http://www.pamal.com

Probably because the corporate website is not a priority so it is seldom updated. I haven't looked at pamal.com lately; however, I am curious since the Gainesville cluster is still listed, is the Pensacola cluster also still listed on the Pamal corporate website?
 
Interesting comments about Gville, thanks. How is rental housing? When I left it was starting to be scarce but was cheap. With all those extra students I bet it is pricey now. I read on yahoo that Gville was similar to Detroit as the cost of buying a house went way down after the recession but that renting is not that cheap. Also, the power plant then was at Crystal River and in 1980 they had some accident. Electricity was expensive before and even more expensive after the accident. I remember it being over a hundred bucks a month and I rarely used the AC. Back then a hundred bucks was worth about 200 bucks now. The cable tv company had Orlando and Jacksonville fm stations on different frequencies since there was not much local FM radio. One of the more popular stations was a jazz station that the cable company started up themselves and they played commercials with DJs to sound like a regular station. Their slogan was High on the Reef at Gainesville Beach. How is the smooth jazz station doing there on regular radio?
 
Smooth Jazz has all but left the building. WXJZ is more of a light AC, with a touch of jazz occasionally inserted. John Tesh is the afternoon show. It's not bad sounding, but it's not a jazz station.

Today, the CATV system has no FM stations on it that I know of. The only stations from out of town remaining on the CATV system are WJXT (Formerly CBS, but now an independent from Jacksonville) and WESH, the NBC affiliate from Orlando. WESH will probably go soon. They are blacked out whenever network programming is on since we now have WNBW locally.

Electricity is still expensive and getting higher. It will go through the roof if the wood buring plant is actually built. In the meantime, the City encouraged everyone to conserve electricity and they offered lots of rebates to places to install new fuel efficient air conditioners and lighting. The result was that GRU found that demand for electricity was substantially reduced and they had to significantly increase rates to make up the budget shortfall caused by conservation. So, they punished the clients for conserving by increasing the cost of the electricity instead of trimming their overhead. Typical.

I heard that the Crystal River power plant is being closed because the concrete used to build the containment vessel was substandard and the radioactive water degraded it over time causing cracks that defy all attempts at repair.

Housing prices fell during the recession, but were insulated by the University. Ocala's housing market was devastated, though.
 
There was a story in the Gainesville Sun (no longer owned by the New York Times) recently that home sales in June were up 50% over June 2012 and the highest number of sales since June 2007. Apartment occupancy is over 90% so some of the developments that were put on hold during the recession may actually get started.

You may not know that two or three blocks were leveled at University Avenue and NW 13th Street just before the crash and still sit vacant. I just can't see someone sinking $300+ million to build there. The current owners are negotiating with the city for big concessions. The original plan was for a large hotel/condos, shops, and parking garage.
 
Homes are selling now, but for far less than five years ago. A rebound is definitely in progress though.
 
Jeff said:
You may not know that two or three blocks were leveled at University Avenue and NW 13th Street just before the crash and still sit vacant. The original plan was for a large hotel/condos, shops, and parking garage.

The planners here are in love with high density housing. They refer to it as "In-fill". The concept is that everyone will move from the suburbs into 900sf condos for $150,000/ea in order to be in the city. The draw is supposed to be walkable neighborhoods with so-called neighborhood centers that provide shopping, dining and various services so that the residents don't have to drive. So far, the experiment has not excatly been a rousing sucess in the downtown area where it has already been tried. They tore down blocks of historic houses and built 3-4 story high density condos that remain largely vacant.

But we digress from radio. Compared to 1980, Gainesville is far less of a radio wasteland. When my family moved here in the mid-1970s from Miami, I was in real RF culture shock. I scrounged an old radio tuner and connected up an outside antenna to hear Orlando, Tampa and Jacksonville FMs. There was nothing locally that suited my tastes as a teenager of the era. Today, there are many choices, covering a broad range of formats, though certainly not all formats. As always, radio remains a business and some formats have not fared well here when they have been tried. That is one of the drawbacks of a smaller town. A format has to gain critical mass in order to be sellable. In a big city, critcal mass is easier to achieve. In a small town, you could gain the same audience percentages as in a big town, but the total number of available listeners is too low to support the format, leading to a failure. This is a similar concept the TV's Gross Ratings Points, which is a discussion of its own.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom