Gary Spears Exits Kiss-FM

[CNYRadio.com]

http://www.cnyradio.com/2009/03/16/gary-spears-exits-kiss-fm/

 

[BobRoss]

The press release from the Roser Communications Network station did not elaborate on the circumstances behind Spears’ departure.

They may not have "officially" spelled it out, but the two quotes from the station (especially Jordan's) eliminate any need for guesswork.

Can't really call this one a shocker -- P12+ Kiss has been sliding since Roser took it over.
http://www.******************/ratings.asp?market=295

Even though they only lost ½ a point total between Fall 2007 and Fall 2008, it was enough for the station to slide from 3rd to 4th place. And as usual, P12+ is only one piece of the pie. No access to the target demo numbers... it could be much worse there.

 

[Adman4120]

Hello Bob...Even though I do not reply that often to these threads, I will say that I have the utmost respect for your knowledge of the business and your comments. Nice to see very professional opinions given, even if they are not popular ones on occasion.

With that said, I will reply back in the next day or two with more information as I have all numbers from the latest Arbitron, including the very important, but often neglected 10-year age brackets for men and women. Obviously, I cannot print these numbers, but I can provide general information which I am sure will make sense to you and others.

 

[BobRoss]

Thanks Adman... I look forward to the additional ratings info. (I'm happy we actually have P12+ at all, considering how long those were embargoed in this market.)

I'm actually kind of surprised about Kiss' ratings going down... I hadn't really paid much attention to that until today. Overall, I think the station is doing better under local ownership. So perhaps this is just a matter of the morning numbers not being where they should be, compared to the other dayparts. Or maybe it's just a "mental perception" kind of thing about the ownership. (But mostly because of how poorly I heard CC ran the place before... some corporate groups aren't so bad.)

Or heck, maybe it's just a money thing like everywhere else. Out of the entire Kiss crew, I believe Spears had the longest career, so it's not unreasonable to guess he had the biggest salary... and management just decided they could do better. If they can get better ratings for the same money, or the same ratings with someone who works cheaper...

I could go waaaay out in left field and wonder aloud about whether Roser's going to bring back Linda and Kook. I'm not quite sure how I'd feel about that one. Things weren't sounding too hot toward the end of their last time together on mornings, but maybe Roser will try the "familiar favorites" approach to get some attention. Can't do much worse than some of the other morning players in the market today. Main factor that makes me want to doubt this would be the cost of two "known" talents, compared to one dominant person and a 20-something unknown "sidekick."

 

[Adman4120]

Hello Bob....Not sure of the reason why Gary Spears is gone, even though someone close to the situation gave me their version of why he was let go. If what I was told is true, it sure seems very childish that both sides could not work things out. Of course, this might have been the perfect out for the radio station. As you know, rumors always abound.

As we both know, the Utica/Rome market is getting older by the minute and even though the staff at KISS is working hard, in my opinion, it will always be an up hill battle for them to ever dominate. Even when Wally Wilcox commented in other posts about how great KISS was in the mid 90's under his direction, I do not recall KISS being that much better, but it could be my memory going bad.

FROG and LITE in my view do well by default. It doesn't matter who is on air. Their formats are popular, they were first in line to start them, and until another station hires a PD who knows what their doing, they should still rule for at least the foreseeable future. With today's doom and gloom, we know that another station is not going to invest what is needed to knock them off. I also feel that CHR will never be #1 or 2 in this market. Regent is so vulnerable for many reasons, but their competition isn't any better, except I do feel ED has the music on
WOUR sounding much better than he has TK-99 in Syracuse. WOUR did have a nice spike in the last book, so it will be interesting to see what happens this Spring.

I've also been told that WXUR at 92.7 will be going to 25,000 watts from a new tower site on Smith Hill by early summer. Unless Mindy listens to someone who knows programming, the power increase will not help that station at all. Right now, it is all messed up, whether she wants to believe it or not. She should have Keeler on in the morning, local sports talk in the afternoon. Yes, that station should be the first FM sports station in the market. This is a big local sports area. I have no doubt in my mind it would do well and make her money.

 

[JustPastBuffalo]

I've also been told that WXUR at 92.7 will be going to 25,000 watts from a new tower site on Smith Hill by early summer. Unless Mindy listens to someone who knows programming, the power increase will not help that station at all. Right now, it is all messed up, whether she wants to believe it or not. She should have Keeler on in the morning, local sports talk in the afternoon. Yes, that station should be the first FM sports station in the market. This is a big local sports area. I have no doubt in my mind it would do well and make her money.

Been years since I worked radio in the Mohawk Valley (think the days of "Slapshot," the CAG Building, Mohawk Valley Comets and Brian Conacher... yes that long ago) so take my observations with a grain of salt. Regarding 92.7, I was part of a group that "kicked the tires" when the station was dark and in receivership. We looked at market revenue and growth (shrinkage) and the signal, took a deep breath and walked away. If only the revenue was there to support the format. Still, 25kW on 92.7 beats 6kW on 92.7 and is nothing to sneeze at. There may be possibilities.

I agree with Bob about the successful music formats being covered by Regent and Ed, as well as the "aging" of the market. It would take money, street muscle and a healthy touch of creative lunacy to compete with those entrenched operators. Not an easy task.

As to sports, I'd only add that it really helps to have a local sports franchise that fans follow. Utica College? Hamilton College? Colgate? Syracuse to be sure. What's available? Can local high school sports make money and not be done without sounding like hicks from the sticks?

As to the majors, the Yankees are always an automatic. The Mets? Running the Red Sox would be heresy, but it might get people to talk... and listen. Phillies? One thing's certain: Sports cannot be done on the cheap and run on life support. It's not a music format that an owner-operator can "Set and Forget" for the weekend. And doing local sports and having the same 14 people calling in day after day is a formula that leads to death by a thousand paper cuts. Not very entertaining.

Whatever the format an up-powered 92.7 might choose, it's a tough row to hoe. But it could be a fun challenge for some young turks who have passion and could survive on pizza and pork 'n beans.

Always interesting to read the observations of the astute pundits here. Best regards.

 

[ThePickleReport]

Can local high school sports make money and not be done without sounding like hicks from the sticks?

As to the majors, the Yankees are always an automatic. The Mets? Running the Red Sox would be heresy, but it might get people to talk... and listen. Phillies? One thing's certain: Sports cannot be done on the cheap and run on life support. It's not a music format that an owner-operator can "Set and Forget" for the weekend. And doing local sports and having the same 14 people calling in day after day is a formula that leads to death by a thousand paper cuts. Not very entertaining.

I spent some time in Pennsylvania where they worship high school football, and I heard some great radio coverage. Most of it was by non-pros too, ex-coaches & players. It can be done but you'd have to be lucky.

I agree if you tried to do a call-in show in a smaller market without the resources and personnel a large station has (say WGR in Buffalo), that you would get roasted on a regular basis.

I would think NASCAR would be a must for a station like this as well. And my 2-cents, I'd rather have a go at sports on an FM than to be the second or third player in on a given music format with an inferior signal.

Great thoughts as always Jim.

 

[BobRoss]

I love threads like these.

I agree with Bob about the successful music formats being covered by Regent and Ed, as well as the "aging" of the market. It would take money, street muscle and a healthy touch of creative lunacy to compete with those entrenched operators. Not an easy task.

That was actually adman, I believe... but I agree. It took a lot of work for Lite to take down KG104 all those many years ago. I don't envision any owner doing what it would take to unseat Lite or Frog. Kiss is probably set up with the best staffing arrangement, and the most capability -- but the format is so different from Lite and Frog, it's like apples vs. oranges. Even with a little overlap between the playlists, it's not enough to convert a Lite or Frog P1 into a Kiss P1.

Right now, I'd say The Drive, in its current format, is musically competitive with Lite more than anyone else. The two big detractors are the weaker signal located in Herkimer, and the fact that AM and PM drive are all-talk. Lite's success rides on the whole "less talk, more music" gimmick, and WXUR isn't going to compete as long as it runs solid blocks of talk programming in the most important parts of the day. Regardless of whether there's FM sports or whatever other kind of format... they need to dump Imus. Bottom line. Put Keeler in the morning and just do whatever you're going to do for the rest of the day, non-stop. No PM drive interruptions.

Now, as for Mix... also competitive with Lite, but their downfall is the lack of a local airstaff. At present, all dayparts are done from Syracuse. Granted, mornings, middays and afternoons may be partially live (they have to voicetrack if a live Mix break coincides with a live Sunny break), and Big Mike and Rick Gary can outdo Mark Richards and Eric Meier any day. But Mark & Eric win because they're IN Utica. Mix only has great-sounding jocks because those jocks are primarily working for Syracuse, and voicing breaks for Utica is just "extra work" they probably would rather not be doing.

Mix might gain some numbers, but they really need to be live and local 6am-7pm (or even 12mid) if they want to have a real chance at the battle. A live, local love song dedication show at night could kick the doors off Delilah or Tesh, and the fact that it would be 100% local spot inventory would allow it to be just as profitable as the bird, if not more. Either way, they need local people to do all the things Wally mentioned earlier... driving the van around just to be seen, handing out free stuff, and all the other "little things" that slowly, but surely help you impress people enough to earn a bigger slice of the ratings pie.

As to sports, I'd only add that it really helps to have a local sports franchise that fans follow. Utica College? Hamilton College? Colgate? Syracuse to be sure. What's available? Can local high school sports make money and not be done without sounding like hicks from the sticks?

I can't argue with the strong following for local sports, but I'm not sure how much of it is still "out there" for another station to claim. WIBX has Utica College. I think WMCR does Colgate. Not sure if anyone has Hamilton. Since Galaxy's TK99/105 is the flagship for the SU sports network, I would guess Galaxy's "The Game" stations carry SU in Utica, but I'm too far out of their range to listen (and The Game doesn't have a website). However, many Utica listeners who can't pick up TK99 can tune in the SU network via WGY from Albany.

As for Yankees baseball, it can be a tough sell. The market has pretty good cable penetration, and the YES Network is carried on basic cable. With most people able to watch on TV, there isn't a huge pool of leftovers who would listen on the radio, especially considering the allegedly high broadcast rights fees the Yankees demand. If WXUR were to make a run with an FM sports format, they'd practically have to make the Yankees THE primary promotional focus of the station. The slogan would have to be something like "Your home for the NY Yankees and... _____."

And most certainly, they'd have to staff it up well so it's not just "set it and forget it" beyond the Yankees coverage. I think an FM all sports would be wise to also carry the Syracuse Crunch (many people who miss having AHL or other semi-pro teams in Utica do make the trip to Syracuse often) and maybe even the Syracuse Chiefs. This would all be in addition to the local colleges and high schools. But to do it right, you'd need a full-time on-air team to cover the colleges and high schools... a team who does ALL these games, all the time, so they don't sound like two-bit "hicks from the sticks" team who only sit behind the mic once a week. (As Pickle said, some ex-coaches and ex-players can do a good job, but I'd say they're the exception rather than the rule.)

It would cost a lot more than a "set it and forget it" sports station that just sits on a satellite feed most of the time... but again, you have to spend money to make money. And let's face it... aside from WIBX, most of the AM stations in Utica are horrible. The more I think of it, the more I think you've got a brilliant idea, doing sports on FM radio. Of course, only if it's done right. Simply moving the ESPN Radio feed from WNRS to WXUR does not qualify as doing it right.

Of course, since we've laid out all these great ideas that make a lot of sense... we're guaranteeing ourselves that it will never happen. ;-)

 

[JustPastBuffalo]

Given the expert local analysis and information put forth in this thread by Adman, Bob, Pickle and other posters, perhaps a News-Talk-Sports combo could be a potential format for 92.7, but mannnn, that is a tough nut to crack. Having some experience with N-T-S, I can tell you it isn't cheap to do and cannot be properly done on the cheap. The format needs live bodies, especially in drive times.

Doing N-T-S on FM might give an owner-operator a potential half step advantage because 30-44 year olds prefer FM; but you'd be surprised at how many operators trip taking that half step. No need to dredge up the Free FM debacle.

Another challenge to N-T-S is selling the format on the street. This requires tough, smart, well-prepared sales men and women who have a passion for the format and know how to overcome objections from local clients (e.g., "your sports guy is an a**hole, I can't stand him..." yet they listen to him every day and know exactly what he said.) These days, it's tough enough to overcome objections when selling a music format, even tougher considering Utica-Rome's economy. Add to this, the graying demographics in U-R (just like Buffalo) and it's easy to see an operator thinking twice about doing N-T-S.

So what other choices remain?

Look at the potential audience in U-R and determine the product as to the needs of the potential customers. What stations are serving those customers? How well are they serving them? Is there a hole or a flanking position to be had? Product, Positioning, Promotion, Performance.

Likely, there isn't any hole in the market, but from what posters have written here, looks like Classic Hits, Classic Rock, AC and Country get the big numbers, especially 35+. Might 92.7 make money doing Standards-Oldies with a stylish, hip and local approach? That's definitely 50+ if not 60+. Most posters here hear Syracuse-Utica-Rome radio every day while I hear it only driving through on I-90, about two hours each way, so you'd know much better than I.

Is there a "witch's brew" of a format (e.g., Classic Hits-AC ; Classic Hits-Oldies ; Classic Hits-Classic Rock) that can be done with differentiation, enough to capitalize on the short-comings or weaknesses of the market leaders?

If 92.7 chooses (to stay with) a music format, it almost has to be 35+ in nature; has to appeal to Women and Men to get the Persons; has to be live morning drive to midnight. It has to have an "oh wow" factor and it has to be consistent and contemporary. In other words, whenever listeners go to the cupboard and reach for the soup can, they have to feel confident it's not filled with shampoo when they open it.

These are challenging times to be doing radio (cough, understatement). I know that firsthand. Hope the owner-operator of 92.7 has enough money to upgrade the facility, staff it and promote it... and a few bucks left over to buy pizza, wings, beer and soda (west of 'Cuse, it's pop) for the staff once a month.

 

[Adman4120]

Hello Jim and Bob...First I would like to say to you Jim that you are such a great talent. I have a good friend who works in Syracuse that knows you very well, and I have listened to you many times over the years when visiting family near Buffalo.

When you and Bob made comments on local sports in the Utica area surviving, I must say, based on my hands on experience being involved with it, I believe 100%, the format would work and make money in this market. High School sports and Utica College sports is big here and ever since WIBX began broadcasting these games a few years ago, the response has been beyond belief, not only with ad revenue, but in ratings, emails, letters, etc.

One of the reasons local sports has become so popular is the presentation of the games. Jim, you know sports and broadcast quality. The games on WIBX DO NOT sound like your typical, small market, cell-phone, high school game, nor do the announcers. The games and intermission reports sound like an NHL or ESPN game. If you haven't heard one of the games, I would love to send you a copy for your critique. We even had comments on the Syracuse dot com sight the other day where out of town people said our New Hartford State playoff hockey games were like listening to "Hockey Night in Canada on the radio". The sound is professional, microphones at ice level, replays of goals, etc, and great play-by-play and color commentary.

Add into the mix WIBX's local sports talk show from 3-5 daily, with strong numbers, and it's icing on the cake.

I'm not saying WXUR has to do this. I just believe that any FM station would be successful in this market with sports. I've been wrong many times in my life and I could be way off base, but for this particular area, I think it would work, even though the next best thing is how sports has played an important part of WIBX's programming which is better than no sports on at all.

 

[therealjm12]

I paid my dues in the Utica-Rome market many years ago but I do get back a few times a year to visit family and friends so I think I can make some comments here. I agree with Adman (Dave is that you?). WIBX does an excellent job with their high school sports coverage. Very professional sounding. The guys on the afternoon sports talk show know what they are doing. They know their audience and are very tight sounding. I can't see anyone doing a better job than what WIBX doing in sports.
The Score stations -WTLB etc. I believe, have the rights to all S. U. games, the Bills, and the Yankees. If the Mohawk Valley ever got a hockey team back I am sure the radio rights would go to either WIBX or Galaxy. So what is in it for another station even on FM? Every sport worth listening to is already under contract for years to come. Even ESPN is taken by WXUR's sister AM station.

So what could the new improved signal on 92.7 do? Well, personally I would give serious thought of going back to an oldies format.
Back when they were oldies they shared the market with WODZ. WODZ covered the western part of the market and WXUR the Valley.
I listened to WODZ recently and there just wasn't anything there. It is all satellite fed (outside of AM drive I guess) and obviously sounded canned. There was plenty of dead air and jocks that talked but didn't say anything. As mentioned above, the market is very gray. The audience is looking for a hot sounding oldies station, with local personalities and input. I am sure Regent is worried about hurting their other stations - Frog & Lite if they got aggressive with WODZ . WXUR doesn't have that problem.
So I Would dump Imus, he's old and expensive. I would put Keeler back in the AM, he pays. I would try to get him to make an effort to keep the format. He's a pro. If he thought it would make him more successful he'd do it. The music - late 60's 70's and 80's.

Now a FM talker? All the biggies are taken by WIBX and are under contract. So maybe something completely different would work.
Imus in the AM followed by Stephanie Miller, Ed Shultz, and Keeler. That would be a huge gamble. I think they would find an audience but could they sell it?

 

[Adman4120]

Hello The Real JM...Yes, it is me, and thank-you very much for the kind comments on our efforts with local sports and Utica College sports. Your feedback makes all of the work worth all of the hours that are put in. As you know, we do it for the kids, parents, and obviously the fans.

The points you made about possible formats for various stations and some of the drawbacks attempting other things make sense and are very valid points. WIBX has done one heck of a job by adding 2-hours of local sports talk per day and the airing of high school and Utica College sports. Even the news presentation is coming along and continues to get stronger.

WODZ in my view too, is a sleeping giant and if someone else gets smart, they are so vulnerable. WODZ and WIBX can sky rocket even more, but as you said, Lite and FROG get all of the attention...even from a sound quality standpoint. FROG and Lite do not sound to bad with their current sound processing. WIBX and WODZ are just the opposite. Terrible. The two worst sounding stations on the dial. Flat, no depth, almost like listening to a transistor radio sound or beautiful music settings. Listen to Rush someday on WSYR, WGY and WIBX, since they all air Rush at the same time...what a difference, and I do not mean a slight difference. Listeners will never say out loud that a station sounds pumped up and compressed, or flat, but, deep down inside, our sub conscious tells us differently.

I also agree there are not many big names left for mainstream talk in the market except for Shaun Hannity. And even though the Game has SU, the Bills, and Yankees, I would bet that the Yankees would jump ship in a hurry to get on a 25,000 watt FM or strong 5,000 watt AM, compared to the low power AM stations of Galaxy that unfortunetly reach only about two miles at night, when most games are on. The Bills? Not a big deal. More Giant fans in this area. SU? Not sure. Most people watch them on TV and most games are always on TV.

You are probably correct with some sort of oldies-classic hits format 70's or 80's through 90's with some mid to late 60's sprinkled in. And Yes, dump Imus. Whether your spouse likes Imus or not, isn't a great business reason to keep him on. He hardly gets any numbers now, and the numbers he did receive in the last book are a few men 55 and over, that's it.

 

[SeenItAll]

Give Roser and the folks at Kiss credit for shedding 350 pounds of dead weight!

 

[BobRoss]

WODZ has always been like an "also ran" for that cluster. Just something to fill the frequency so they could move Frog to the big stick on 104.3 way back when. I will give Regent credit for trying to make it more local by adding an afternoon live jock (Kevin Quinn) but then they canned him and went back to the bird a few years later. (Sadly, any downfall in the ratings were probably more due to the off-air demeanor of the station's previous morning host... I've heard stories of Mr. C's poor treatment of listeners on the phone and at remotes. This isn't exactly a major market where pissing off "just one person" doesn't make any difference.)

On the other hand, wasn't WXUR just as bad for a long time? They had Imus in the morning, then Bruce Melnick in the afternoon. Nobody else in between. Canned satellite crap just the same as WODZ.

If Keeler goes to the morning, I'm not sure if he will change his format much to accommodate the station's musical tastes. After all, he pays for his time. As long as he brings in enough listeners to bring in his own advertisers to pay for his own 4 hour block, he doesn't need to be concerned with playing music, or finding ways to ensure the TSL continues after his show ends.

He's not working for the station as a whole; he's just in it for himself. Don't get me wrong -- that's not to say he definitely would not honor such a request -- just saying he doesn't have to. At least not until his contract comes up for renegotiation. When you break it down to the simplest terms, Keeler's show is a 4-hour infomercial in the eyes of the sales and programming departments. It just happens to be an infomercial that contains actual compelling content.

Whether he plays music or not, or what kind of music he plays, may not even matter. If WXUR does a good enough job providing a post-10am product, people will stay. He'd throw the ball every morning... it would just be up to WXUR to catch the pass and run with it.

 

[JustPastBuffalo]

Whether he plays music or not, or what kind of music he plays, may not even matter. If WXUR does a good enough job providing a post-10am product, people will stay. He'd throw the ball every morning... it would just be up to WXUR to catch the pass and run with it.

Don't know if a successful (Classic Hits-Oldies) radio station can be run like that. There has to be consistency and "buy-in" from the get-go, in every daypart. Besides, let's say WXUR minimized the negatives, maximized the positives and came out with a tight, well produced presentation that knocks the radio critics on this board on their asses. WODZ likely won't roll over. They're the Oldies franchise in U-R and they'll do what they need to do to protect that franchise, no matter how imperfect it has been to this point. WXUR: Do it right or don't do it at all.