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Gates Sta-Level

Those are some good pictures. I swear I could smell this piece of equipment. :)
Smells tired, but still good.
 
When operating correctly, you can drive those into G/R no-man's land without too much noticable damage. In the recording community, they are highly sought-after - they are a fave for tracking Bass guitar. If I had the funds, I be all over it. The problem with vari-mu comps of that vintage though: the almost-extinct 6386 tube...
-D
 
It just sold for $1310.00..But, it sure brought back old memories.Wonder how much it was new? Possibly about half of what it just sold for.
 
Tom Wells said:
Those are some good pictures. I swear I could smell this piece of equipment. :)
Smells tired, but still good.
Click to expand...

Hehehe....Well....seems like at least they had the presence of mind to replace the filter capacitors? It's not fun when those decide to ooze their guts.
 
oldiesstation said:
It just sold for $1310.00..But, it sure brought back old memories.Wonder how much it was new? Possibly about half of what it just sold for.
Click to expand...

According to the October 1968 price list from Gates catalog 98 (the last edition to feature this model), the M-5167 Sta-Level sold for $300 new; a 100% spare tube kit was an additional $15. Based on official CPI numbers, $300 in 1968 = $1844 today, so these compressors have held their value quite well. CCA made a clone in the late '60s using almost identical circuitry.

I rescued my Sta-Level from a Buffalo dumpster in the early '80s before most people realized they were worth keeping. Several months ago, I replaced the stock coupling caps with "Orange Drop" Mylars, replaced the filter caps and 6V6's, cleaned the pots, polished the front panel and "Yard-style" knobs, and now it sounds and looks GREAT.

Anyone in need of a 6386 might check with the local "heritage" TV station. These tubes were also used in early VTRs (as preamps in old RCA TVT- machines, I think) so if you're lucky, there may still be some spares hidden away in the maintenance shop. Of course, if you can find an AM station that signed on in the late '50s or early '60s with the popular Gates "Hi-Watter" package, perhaps there are a couple of these tubes hiding in a dark corner of the transmitter shack.

I built a 6386 compressor for my High School FM station in the mid-'70s using UTC linear standard transformers on an old military surplus AM-864/U chassis (to go ahead of a Fairchild Conax) but I have no idea what has happened to it.
 
Interesting. And discouraging for those of us who couldn't afford the current prices...
BTW, what did Gates offer as a compressor in 1969??
 
What I find interesting is that the "value" of the unit today must be due to the name, and the authentic piece, since equipment like this can/is still built for less money. The big cost is the transformers and cabinetry.

But, it would be like comparing a 1961 Chevrolet Impala to a vehicle that someone has put together from various parts to make a car. Which leads me to believe the end use by the buyer may not be for actual studio operation, but as a collector's item.
 
Believe the compressor was the Level Devil. Lovely box if you trimmed the balance every night. And let's not forget the FM Toplevel, preemphasized hard limiter/distortion generator par excellance
 
littlejohn said:
Believe the compressor was the Level Devil. Lovely box if you trimmed the balance every night. And let's not forget the FM Toplevel, preemphasized hard limiter/distortion generator par excellance
Click to expand...
The Top Level did a great job of generating horrendous distortion to control the pre-empahsis "problem". You'd think the lesson would have been learned by the mid 70's, but nope. The Harris Solid Statesman FM did the same thing...it clipped the high end, but at least it had the option of letting you pick the frequency where you wanted the clipping to kick in. Sorry piece of gear...I don't think I've ever seen a used one...nor do I wish to.
 
FredRichards said:
What I find interesting is that the "value" of the unit today must be due to the name, and the authentic piece, since equipment like this can/is still built for less money. Which leads me to believe the end use by the buyer may not be for actual studio operation, but as a collector's item.
Click to expand...
I'm sure there is a bit of "collector mojo" on those boxes; but the recording folks love them for the sound and use them religiously. On the flip side, there is company that makes a current version of the Sta-Level http://www.retroinstruments.com/. And, there is a growing community of recording-tech guys who build recreations of the Sta-Level, 1176, LA-2, LA-3, and a myriad of classic pre-amp designs. I'm active on the Prodigy forums http://www.prodigy-pro.com/forum/ where there are many, many guys not only building these boxes, but also doing the art-work for PCB's and making it available to others. It may sound crazy, but I sold a couple non-functional Gates SA-39 tube limiters for $1k last month to a fellow who rebuilds and puts them into service in his recording studio. Those things were something less than boat-anchors just a few years ago...
-D
 
Phil said:
Interesting. And discouraging for those of us who couldn't afford the current prices...
BTW, what did Gates offer as a compressor in 1969??
Click to expand...

Gates catalog 98 from October 1968 has the Level Devil listedat $490 and the FM Top Level at $625.

The AM "Solid Statesman" limiter was also priced in catalog 98 at $625, but the FM and AGC "Solid Statesmen" weren't released until catalog 99, when the tube processors were discontinued.

I do remember that those Solid Statesman FM clippers were really raunchy. Didn't Schulke specifically prohibit their use by his beautiful music clients?
 
littlejohn said:
Believe the compressor was the Level Devil. Lovely box if you trimmed the balance every night. And let's not forget the FM Toplevel, preemphasized hard limiter/distortion generator par excellance
Click to expand...

I'm very fond of the sound of the Sta-Level -- very smooth even with huge amounts of gain reduction. I've never worked with a Level Devil. The Toplevel, on the other hand, lasted one day at my old college radio station, circa 1965. It tore up "esses" to a ridiculous extent (as would any other preemphasized clipper without distortion cancellation). After returning the Toplevel, we bought a Farichild Conax, which was actually not bad.
 
When I worked at WROV in 1967, we had a Level Devil and an SA-39 (?) Gates peak limiter. Nice sounding combo, and as I recall, the RTZ function on the Lever Devil worked pretty well.
Somehow I ended up with a Level Devil manual... but no Level Devil.
So, the Level Devil was around by at least '67....
 
dtube1 said:
I'm sure there is a bit of "collector mojo" on those boxes; but the recording folks love them for the sound and use them religiously.
Click to expand...

Darn you Dr, and the rest of you on this thread. Now I have the itch to go out in the shop and build something like this. :) This might be something to add to the announce-booth and keep me out of the cold this winter.

(Last homebuilt project like this was a copy of a Fender Bassman for my son.)
 
FredRichards said:
Darn you Dr, and the rest of you on this thread. Now I have the itch to go out in the shop and build something like this. :) This might be something to add to the announce-booth and keep me out of the cold this winter.

(Last homebuilt project like this was a copy of a Fender Bassman for my son.)
Click to expand...

Here's a clean print of the Sta-Level schematic:

http://www.waltzingbear.com/Schematics/Gates/Sta_Level.htm

The 6386 may be hard to find for less than $100. I picked up some spares years ago from a TV station where I had a summer job; the facility no longer had any equipment that required the 6386, so the maintenance supervisor gave them to me -- but that was long before these compressors became popular again.
 
I just ran across 2 sleeves of 5 each of RCA and GE 6386 tubes. Had no idea they were fetching that much. I think I'll keep mine as I like to have spares. Have a few more Sta-Levels to restore.
 
Play Freebird said:
FredRichards said:
Darn you Dr, and the rest of you on this thread. Now I have the itch to go out in the shop and build something like this. :) This might be something to add to the announce-booth and keep me out of the cold this winter.

(Last homebuilt project like this was a copy of a Fender Bassman for my son.)
Click to expand...

Here's a clean print of the Sta-Level schematic:

http://www.waltzingbear.com/Schematics/Gates/Sta_Level.htm

The 6386 may be hard to find for less than $100. I picked up some spares years ago from a TV station where I had a summer job; the facility no longer had any equipment that required the 6386, so the maintenance supervisor gave them to me -- but that was long before these compressors became popular again.
Click to expand...

Looking at that schematic, I'm not sure what is so special about the 6386, other than it's unique pin configuration and price tag. It isn't shown in either of the old RCA tube manuals I have in my office, but it looks to me that you could substitute some other dual triode with no problem. A 12AU7 comes to mind. Of course, you'd have to wire the tube socket so the pins actually went to the right components. If you are building a replica from scratch, that would be easy enough to do. It looks to me like the big problem would be finding suitable audio transformers for this. They aren't as common as they once were, and they can make a huge difference in how the device sounds. Not all transformers are created equal.

Is there anything magic about the 6386? Just curious....
 
Chuck said:
Is there anything magic about the 6386? Just curious....
Click to expand...

I guess it just possesses a nice, smooth variable-mu characteristic by design.

But here's a clone that provides the option of substituting a pair of 6BJ6 pentodes, which are still cheap and easy to find:

http://www.retroinstruments.com/descr.html

I wonder if those 6BJ6s are triode-connected. Anyone attempting to use them as subs might be interested in this paper:

http://www.tubes.mynetcologne.de/roehren/ETF06TS.pdf
 
Manley Labs has made a Vari-Mu compressor for years that bears a passing resemblance to the beloved Sta-Level. In the late 1990's though, they quit using 6386 tubes in favor of the more- common 5670, which is also a remote cut-off, dual triode using the same pin-out. That tube did not produce the same sonic results as the 6386. Their solution was to take a 12BA6 pentode, run it as a triode, and use two. They claim it offers the same gain curve as a 6386 triode. They made a kit with (2) sockets to retro-fit the older units. Here's the whole story: http://www.manleylabs.com/techpage/TBAR.html.
-D
 
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