• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Gender gap or buncha crap?

E

evnlee

Guest
CBS News and Sports President Sean McManus on Katie Couric:“I think it is a fact there are probably people, both men and women, who are perhaps uncomfortable having a woman anchor the news,” McManus says. “The way she is scrutinized, I think sometimes unfairly, quite frankly, I think a lot of that has to do with gender.

Question: do the women News/Talkers face the same adversity? As far as 'progressive' N/T goes, I have been a longtime fan of Stephanie Miller, but I believe it's not because of ther political views, but her entertainment value. Same goes for Ingraham. I would listen to her above Limbaugh, Hannity, or BOR, but not Beck. Randi Rhodes ( Robertson ) schreeching in her thick northeast accent doesn't do it for me, sorry.

Would women fare better in 'progressive' news talk outlets, due to the more 'compassionate' and 'nurturing' nature of the liberal agenda? Do women conservative talkers have to adopt a 'tough love' attitude to succeed?

I realize the issues with Katie ( and TV in general ) aren't interchangeable with radio, but it does pose an interesting query.
 
Excellent question.... I would say that gender has little to do with why people would or would not listen to a certain news/talk host mainly due to the success of Laura Ingrham, Dr. Laura, Randi Rhodes, Stephanie Miller and, to a lesser extent, former WABC host Lyn Samuels.
What women have to fight against, however, to become successful talk show hosts are some of their own peers. For example, although I find Rhodes and ingrham equally unlistenable, it is only becasue of their ocnstant name-calling (although Ingrham's book was excellent and well-argued) -- I am clearly in the minority. Both hosts know what their core audience wants and how to give it to them. They (no matter what you or I may think of their views or style) come across as intelligent an well-spoken.
Many females in radio today, however, are hired for their looks or how "cute" they can act on air. On New York's WOR, they have something called "Henican and White," a "water-cooler talk" program in the afternoon drive. While Ellis Henican at least sounds like he's prepared, his co-host, Lyn White (good-looking female), mainly giggles or makes a feeble attempt to put together a coherent sentence as she tries painfully hard to contribute to a conversation. I'm sure many of you had to work with various female "sidekicks" at radio stations. While some are actual talents, there are many that act ditzy or unintelligent on the air either as required for the show OR because that's all they can do. While they make nice eye candy on remotes, they are painful to listen to on the radio. Some of them are called "news bunnies."
As a high number of the female on-air personalities are portyayed as such, the perception of female talk hosts falls, at times, with these exapmles presented. It would take a great talent to overcome this particular perception. This is where Rhodes, Ingrham, et al succeed and others do not.


That is just my humble opinion.
 
As I see it, gender is just one more variable factor to throw into the mix. Some women could be good talk hosts, some couldn't. I think that a woman's voice has certain strengths and liabilities, just as men's voices do. But, I think the differences between women in general and men in general aren't as profound as the differences between individuals, regardless of gender. For example, the problem with Katie Couric isn't that she's a woman. The problem is that she is too "cute". She lacks gravitas, not because she's a woman but because she Katie Couric. Maybe if she was Kathryn Couric.

There are only two women on talk radio in the market where I live that I've listened to. One is Lynn Cullen, who used to be a very good host. I disagreed with her on most issues, but she used to be energetic and entertaining. She clearly didn't do much homework, but she'd rely on callers to provide facts she wasn't aware of. Lately, she has been sounding increasingly lethargic and slow, as if all her energy is gone.

The other is Rose Tennant, co-host on Quinn in the Morning. She is opinionated, informed, and capable of being an effective side-kick for Quinn. She does her homework, and comes to work knowing what she's talking about. Far from acting ditzy, she comes across as really genuine.

The thing is, there is schtick that a man can do that a woman can't. Audiences will buy Michael Savage's "Angry at the World" schtick. They wouldn't buy a woman doing the same thing. Yet women usually can hit the emotional buttons better than men, especially when they're very clever and subtle about it.
 
It's still early.

After Katie had been announced-as -- but before she debuted-as -- CBS Evening News anchor, I asked Dan Rather, during Q+A at the RTNDA convention, and he suggested that an anchor can have some impact on a network newscast's ratings, success is still about the content more than the face out front. Whichever show breaks The Big Story, or, on an ongoing basis, conveys comfort that viewers will watch-and-feel-informed...THAT show will win.

After some initial curiosity sampling as Katie debut buzz crested, the NBC-ABC-CBS rankings settled back into familiar order.

While Katie has gotten all the ink, the CBS show made two other changes: More reporting on THE CONSEQUENCE OF stories, a shift we've more recently seen in the re-formatted Wall Street Journal. News is now a commodity. What-it-means can be proprietary content. The CBS show is also using the Internet more aggressively than the other networks do.

NO QUESTION, Katie-shattering-that-glass-ceiling is revolutionary. And I'll admit it. I'd tune-in to watch her read a grocery list. And if something terrible is happening, I'd like her to tell me. But watch for other networks to implement some of the evolutionary changes the CBS show made concurrent to Katie's arrival.

HC
www.HollandCooke.com
 
Let's step back for a moment as we ponder this interesting question about Katie Couric and gender for late night news anchors:

What other female anchors could anchor the late night news, present it in an intelligent manner, carry credibility and not come in with the "cute" or "perky" label associated with Couric?

There are plenty of quality female anchors on cable channels or excellent major-market co-anchors.

Let's face it, CBS needed a well-known name to slot in to its evening news after the Mapes/Rather fake memo debacle. They needed cute Katie to appeal to the Lowest Common Denominator and get ratings.

Could this have actually HURT future prospects for female news anchors as many try to shed the "News Bunny" image?
 
As I recall, the issue with Katie Couric wasn't so much her gender, but, rather, the fact that she was a non-journalist who was moving from a showbiz format, in which "cute and perky" was an essential attribute, to a network news format, in which an anchor's essential attribute is (or should be) credibility, a measure of "gravitas" in the Murrow/Cronkite model, and the commanding presence of a traffic cop orchestrating the various elements of a newscast. The distinction has been blurred somewhat with the advent of "Happy Talk" news, and, because today's anchors are supported by an extensive staff of broadcast news professionals, no one really expects an anchor to be as involved in the gathering, writing, and organizing of news content as in years past. The problem arises when a correspondent or commentator is reporting on a complex issue that is, or seems to be, over the head of the anchor. So, while we don't really have to believe the anchor to believe the news, we'd like to believe that the anchor believes and understands what he or she is reporting, and not just reading copy. An anchor also holds our interest and leads us into each story by directing our attention through tone of voice, subtle facial expressions, the use of visuals, and proper segues.

I remember, a number of years ago, hearing a radio newsreader segue into a report on a Nicaraguan earthquake saying, "Well, it's a ho, ho, ho, Merry Christmas all over the world, but not in Managua, Nicaragua, where thousands lay dead or dying..." I know it's harder to go serious on radio where people can't see one's change in facial expression, but this gaffe should get the Tex Antoine/Jimmy the Greek Award for Inappropriate Ad-libbing.

As for female political talk show hosts, most of the ones I listen to, at least on WABC, can surely hold their own. Laura Ingraham's towell-snapping "one-of-the-guys" deportment leaves no one in doubt as to who's in charge, and, while Monica Crowley comes off a little softer than Laura, she's also direct, assertive, and authoritative. But some formats do require a host to mellow for ratings. When Dr. Judith Kuriansky did psychology commentaries for one of the news stations many years ago, she had all the credibility of a credentialed expert. Then another station gave her that call-in sex show and paired her with a male sidekick who could do little more than make jokes and help keep things light. "Dr. Judy" became more giggly as well, perhaps to compete with Dr. Ruth's groundbreaking demystification of what was once an on-air taboo. Sure, she got calls, and ratings, and the show helped a lot of shy young people who might not have called in to a less accessible host. But "Dr. Judith Kuriansky" had to become "Dr. Judy" to pull it off. And while we're on the subject of "Judys", it would be interesting to compare the on-air and real courtroom personae of "Judge Judy," who no doubt hams it up for the cameras, but is probably just as intense on the bench.

It is sad, though, that women are expected to act like men in order to have credibility, and then are criticised for it when they do. Her politics aside, Hillary Clinton's Achilles heel is her "shrillness." Would people be as critical of her passionate style if her voice were an octave lower? It's interesting how female politicians have to be tough as nails to get noticed, and then have to talk about cookies and grandchildren to get elected. But, while some of the most successful hosts in daytime television are women, and while local news anchors like Roz Abrams have raised both the bar and the ceiling for female newscasters, we still have a perceived "gender gap" at the very top. And, if you think that's bad, wait until Katie gets older in a field where male anchors stay well into their seventies, and even eighties, but where post-menopausal newswomen, despite the "gravitas" of age and experience, are put to pasture at the first sign of matronliness.

Maybe Katie is a bit too perky, but, considering the foreboding nature of much of the world's news these days, perhaps "perky" is what we need.
 
P.S., to correct my last post...

I just checked Katie's journalistic credentials and learned that she does have more news experience than I realized, and even won a few awards. Not that her experience is so impressive as to qualify her for a top network anchor spot, but at least she knows the business and has a few stripes. But, as gravitas and credibility are more essential to anchors than their supposed news gathering ability, her association with light-hearted morning news/magazine/chatter formats is at odds with the harder-news image laid down by Cronkite, Rather, and others, and she still doesn't really have the seasoned broadcast journalist's resume that one would expect of a network anchor.

But familiarity does seem to trump credentials in the glitzy world of television, and, as with other news/talk formats, it's about bringing in the demos and the numbers. So, if Katie can deliver the goods, why not?
 
Lando Griffin said:
Let's step back for a moment as we ponder this interesting question about Katie Couric and gender for late night news anchors:

What other female anchors could anchor the late night news, present it in an intelligent manner, carry credibility and not come in with the "cute" or "perky" label associated with Couric?

...one name came immediately to mind as I read that: Linda Ellerbee. I guess she shouldn't have done those damned Maxwell House commercials after all ;-) ...
 
Re: It's still early.

Holland Cooke said:
NO QUESTION, Katie-shattering-that-glass-ceiling is revolutionary. And I'll admit it. I'd tune-in to watch her read a grocery list. And if something terrible is happening, I'd like her to tell me. But watch for other networks to implement some of the evolutionary changes the CBS show made concurrent to Katie's arrival.

HC
www.HollandCooke.com

Katie Couric didn't shatter the glass ceiling. That was done by Barbara Walters and Connie Chung over a dozen years ago. She's not even the first female network news anchor from the entertainment division. Walters has that honor. I think you answered the big Katie Couric question when you acknowleged that ratings are back where they were before the switch. Fact is, Couric as a network news anchor is a non-issue.
 
Now, now...

Andrew Kent said:
to correct my last post...I just checked Katie's journalistic credentials and learned that she does have more news experience than I realized, and even won a few awards.

Uh, yuh. When I met her, she was just taking over that Pentagon beat for NBC news, after several years of GETTING THE STORY for WRC-TV/Washington, when DCTV was a ratings dogfight. Next-level-of-detail, as told by a dozen industry icons, is in last month's Washingtonian magazine. The short version: Couric's street reporting chops are AT LEAST on-par-with her ABC/NBC counterparts.' And -- although she wears less make-up than young Shep -- she smokes whatever-if-any resume he has. And, notwithstanding her southern roots, spares us his hick accent.

barooosk said:
Katie Couric didn't shatter the glass ceiling. That was done by Barbara Walters and Connie Chung over a dozen years ago. She's not even the first female network news anchor from the entertainment division.

To save us 45 minutes:

1. YOU UNDERSTAND THE DISTINCTION. First-ever SOLO woman anchor. So what's your real point?

2. As you'll see/hear in the credits, The Today Show is produced by the NBC NEWS Division.

Lando Griffin said:
Let's face it, CBS needed a well-known name to slot in to its evening news

If being-in-last-place is NOT why-to-try-something-completely-different, what is?
Marketing 101: Putting "a face" on a product induces sampling.
Why do you think upstart Priceline hired well-known William Shatner as its launch face?
 
Ultimajock said:

"...one name came immediately to mind as I read that: Linda Ellerbee. I guess she shouldn't have done those damned Maxwell House commercials after all ;-) ..."

Yeah, I was thinking about her after my last post. She was good, and may have been one of the few female news anchors with a true cult following. But her real strength was that she was smart, hip, a little off-beat, and perfect for a novelty overnight news show in which she was paired with a co-anchor with bad skin. And she was sexy, too (at least I thought so), but not in that all-american prom queen way like Katie Couric. But, then, I think Sarah Vowell is sexy, so de gustibus non est disputandum.
 
Andrew Kent said:
Ultimajock said:

"...one name came immediately to mind as I read that: Linda Ellerbee. I guess she shouldn't have done those damned Maxwell House commercials after all ;-) ..."

Yeah, I was thinking about her after my last post. She was good, and may have been one of the few female news anchors with a true cult following. But her real strength was that she was smart, hip, a little off-beat, and perfect for a novelty overnight news show in which she was paired with a co-anchor with bad skin. And she was sexy, too (at least I thought so), but not in that all-american prom queen way like Katie Couric. But, then, I think Sarah Vowell is sexy, so de gustibus non est disputandum.

I'd say not only in Katie Couric "sexier" than those two, but so is Dan rather.
 
KJCB said:
Andrew Kent said:
Ultimajock said:

"...one name came immediately to mind as I read that: Linda Ellerbee. I guess she shouldn't have done those damned Maxwell House commercials after all ;-) ..."

Yeah, I was thinking about her after my last post. She was good, and may have been one of the few female news anchors with a true cult following. But her real strength was that she was smart, hip, a little off-beat, and perfect for a novelty overnight news show in which she was paired with a co-anchor with bad skin. And she was sexy, too (at least I thought so), but not in that all-american prom queen way like Katie Couric. But, then, I think Sarah Vowell is sexy, so de gustibus non est disputandum.

I'd say not only in Katie Couric "sexier" than those two, but so is Dan rather.

Yeah, but Lou Dobbs has the biggest cup size, and Anderson Cooper get's all the hot guys ;)
 
Did you see tonight's A-block?

Even the Katie Kritics had to be impressed by the package she anchored from Ground Zero of today's tornado strike in Florida. SOLID team coverage.
 
Andrew Kent said:
"...one name came immediately to mind as I read that: Linda Ellerbee. I guess she shouldn't have done those damned Maxwell House commercials after all ;-) ..."

Yeah, I was thinking about her after my last post. She was good, and may have been one of the few female news anchors with a true cult following. But her real strength was that she was smart, hip, a little off-beat, and perfect for a novelty overnight news show in which she was paired with a co-anchor with bad skin. And she was sexy, too (at least I thought so), but not in that all-american prom queen way like Katie Couric. But, then, I think Sarah Vowell is sexy, so de gustibus non est disputandum.

She's (Ellerbee that is) not quite dead yet. Another Texas girl battling cancer.
 
barooosk said:
She's (Linda Ellerbee that is) not quite dead yet. Another Texas girl battling cancer.

...has she had a recurrence? I only know of her '80s-'90s bout with breast cancer...
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom