• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Genesis/Origin of TV Translators

Here's a question I have neither the time nor energy to research right now, so maybe some of you other TV History geeks would know. When was the concept of using low-powered translators to fill gaps and extend coverage first developed? When did the FCC first begin to formally license translators as a distinct, separate class of stations (with the W/K followed by the channel number followed by two letters calls)? And is there a documented claim to what was the first translator on the air?
 
Stanislav said:
Here's a question I have neither the time nor energy to research right now, so maybe some of you other TV History geeks would know. When was the concept of using low-powered translators to fill gaps and extend coverage first developed? When did the FCC first begin to formally license translators as a distinct, separate class of stations (with the W/K followed by the channel number followed by two letters calls)? And is there a documented claim to what was the first translator on the air?

I am of course having trouble finding reference material right now, so I'm working from memory...

The first TV translators were pirates. The idea came up pretty early (early 1950s, I suppose) but the FCC seemed reluctant to authorize a translator service. My guess is they were afraid translators would bring big city stations into smaller outlying cities (for example, Philadelphia signals into Atlantic City) and siphon off viewers, making local service in those outlying cities economically difficult.

But in the rural West I'm sure it was pretty obvious places like Burns, Oregon would never have a local TV station. If the FCC wouldn't license translators - well, the locals were going to build them anyway. I've read reports of Western state legislatures passing bills ordering state law enforcement to refuse to cooperate with the FCC in shutting down unlicensed TV translators. (generally called "boosters" at the time, but they were actually translators in the current sense of the terms)

Finally, in the late 1950s the FCC relented and authorized translators. But only in channels 70-83. Most TVs at that time did not receive UHF. So, anyone living in a translator area had to buy a finicky UHF converter box. From what I've read, in some places the new regulations allowing legal translators were ignored - and the translators continued to operate illegally on VHF channels. I would guess it was in the mid-1960s when VHF translators were first legally authorized.

I have a list of UHF translators authorized as of February 15, 1958. It lists 126 translators in 16 states. (as of 2001 there were reportedly over 2,000 translators, 220 in Idaho alone and 86 of those on VHF)

Because the first translators were illegal, I don't think it's going to be possible to document which ones they were.
 
w9wi said:
I have a list of UHF translators authorized as of February 15, 1958.

...by any chance, do you have the listings and authorization dates for the translators that WISN-TV/12 Milwaukee and WBAY-TV/2 Green Bay were operating in Fond du Lac and Sheboygan Counties? In my teenage years I always thought it was odd that two CBS affiliates would both see the need to put translators in Fond du Lac, esecially when both stations' primary VHF signals were easily receivable using rabbit ears...
 
w9wi said:
I have a list of UHF translators authorized as of February 15, 1958. It lists 126 translators in 16 states. (as of 2001 there were reportedly over 2,000 translators, 220 in Idaho alone and 86 of those on VHF)

Fascinating! Care to share the list, w9wi?
 
w9wi said:
The first TV translators were pirates.....

But in the rural West I'm sure it was pretty obvious places like Burns, Oregon would never have a local TV station. If the FCC wouldn't license translators - well, the locals were going to build them anyway. I've read reports of Western state legislatures passing bills ordering state law enforcement to refuse to cooperate with the FCC in shutting down unlicensed TV translators.....

Finally, in the late 1950s the FCC relented and authorized translators.....

Because the first translators were illegal, I don't think it's going to be possible to document which ones they were.

I wonder how long some of those "pirate" translators continued to operate, or if any of them eventually sought to "legitimize" their operations. I figure unlicensed translators continued to pop up here and there even after the FCC got involved. If they were in an obscure enough area in the middle of nowhere, who would be the wiser?
 
Stanislav said:
I wonder how long some of those "pirate" translators continued to operate, or if any of them eventually sought to "legitimize" their operations. I figure unlicensed translators continued to pop up here and there even after the FCC got involved. If they were in an obscure enough area in the middle of nowhere, who would be the wiser?

I strongly suspect most of them eventually legitimized themselves, at least after VHF translators were authorized if not by moving to UHF. I'm sure at least a handful are still operating today.

(I would not be surprised if somewhere out there, a translator is still operating above channel 70, without license and without the owner - or anyone else - knowing it's still on...)

oldschooler1 said:
Fascinating! Care to share the list, w9wi?

I'd love to but I don't have it in electronic form & don't know when I'd have time to type it up. It might happen someday.

I will tell you that three-network systems existed in:
Globe, Arizona 77-KOOL; 80-KTVK; 83-KVAR (KOOL is now KSAZ-10; KVAR is now KPNX-12)
Kingman, Arizona 70-KLRJ; 78-KTVK; 82-KOOL (KLRJ was on channel 2 in Henderson, Nev. - I believe it's the same station as today's KVBC-3, Las Vegas)
Blythe, California 71-KTVK; 75-KOOL; 79-KVAR
Redwood Falls, Minnesota 70-WCCO; 73-KTCA; 77-KSTP; 80-KMGM; 83-WTCN (KMGM is now KMSP-9; WTCN is now KARE-11)
Ely, Nevada 70-KSL; 75-KUTV; 80-KTVT (KTVT is now KTVX-4)
McGill, Nevada 73-KSL; 78-KUTV; 83-KTVT (all three via the Ely translators)
Cottage Grove, Oregon 71-KVAL; 74-KGW; 77-KOIN
La Grande, Oregon 70-KHQ; 76-KXLY; 80-KREM
Madras, Oregon 71-KGW; 74-KOIN; 77-KPTV
Evanston, Wyoming 71-KUTV; 75-KTVT; 79-KSL
Rock Springs, Wyoming 74-KTVT; 78-KSL; 82-KUTV

Ultimajock said:
...by any chance, do you have the listings and authorization dates for the translators that WISN-TV/12 Milwaukee and WBAY-TV/2 Green Bay were operating in Fond du Lac and Sheboygan Counties? In my teenage years I always thought it was odd that two CBS affiliates would both see the need to put translators in Fond du Lac, esecially when both stations' primary VHF signals were easily receivable using rabbit ears...

I'm afraid I don't.

They aren't on the 1958 list. (in fact, the 1958 list only has five translators east of the MIssissippi; three in New Hampshire and the other two in Pennsylvania)

They are listed as deleted stations in the CDBS database but the records only go back to 1980. (in which year both translators renewed their licenses)

I did see WISN's translator in Madison once. (besides three local translators seen during a visit to Ely, Nev. years ago, W70AO is the only station I've ever seen above channel 69) It would have been in the early 1980s. I'm sure it didn't last past the mid-80s. ISTR WBAY's ended up moving to channel 8 & then being sold into LPTV service?

I could only speculate as to why WISN and WBAY wanted translators in Fond du Lac. I might speculate that the viewership in these counties was almost perfectly split between Milwaukee and Green Bay stations, and thus that the counties' market assignments were "up for grabs". If more than 50% of the households in Sheboygan County watched channels 2/5/11 instead of channels 4/6/12, (and 10 and 18) then Sheboygan Co. got assigned to the Green Bay market and the market potentially jumped a few spots.

So if viewers could get a better CBS picture by watching WBAY over the translator, it might push the county over the top & increase the size of the Green Bay market.

Then, once WBAY did it, WISN had to follow suit to avoid losing the county to Green Bay.

But that's just speculation.

_________________________________________________

K74AA seems to have already disappeared by 1958.
 
I remember from my Air Force days ('73-'79) that Clovis, New Mexico was served by at least six UHF and VHF translators from Albuquerque, Amarillo, Lubbock and Roswell stations representing all three nets and two time zones-Central and Mountain. If we missed an ABC program on CT from KVII-TV, Amarillo, we just waited an hour until the MT feed came from KOAT-TV, Albuquerque!

By being right on the time zone boundary, this time shift meant we got the network evening news programs three times...at 4:30, 5:30 and/or 6:30 pm MT depending on the network and station. This quirk affected the entire daily schedule, in fact.

In addition, there was a full-power station (KFDW-TV, Ch. 12, Clovis) that repeated KFDA-TV, Ch. 10, Amarillo (CBS) except for the minimal local programming required. The local originations consisted of IDs, some commercial spots and slides from a film chain, and Clovis/Portales/Cannon AFB local news read on a small set in the corner of the transmitter building with a one-man, one-camera setup.
 
Ultimajock said:
w9wi said:
I have a list of UHF translators authorized as of February 15, 1958.

...by any chance, do you have the listings and authorization dates for the translators that WISN-TV/12 Milwaukee and WBAY-TV/2 Green Bay were operating in Fond du Lac and Sheboygan Counties? In my teenage years I always thought it was odd that two CBS affiliates would both see the need to put translators in Fond du Lac, esecially when both stations' primary VHF signals were easily receivable using rabbit ears...

The final chapter of my forthcoming book on Milwaukee TV history will be on translator stations, and opens with background on how they started.

My WTVW/WISN-TV chapter has some details re: W70AO (their Fond du Lac translator).
 
Kentucky Educational Television utilized translators in the early days to fill dead spots. Since cable and satellite have filled the void many of the translators were discontinued. I can't find the list on their site but KET still operates a few translators but I believe they are below channel 59.
 
Back in 1981 I remember being at the race track in Charles Town, West Virginia watching a battery operated B/W TV in my parents car.

At the time the only stations I could pick up were from Hagerstown, MD ( WHAG-TV NBC 25 and WWPB Maryland Public TV on channel 31 )
and Morgantown, WV's then WWVU ( PBS ) thanks to a translator from nearby Martinsburg on channel 44.

But I also received ABC from some area translator on channel 18. The channel came in very clear. At first I thought it was either DC's WJLA or Baltimore's WJZ but the programming came from Richmond-Petersburg's then WXEX-TV channel 8 !!! Why WXEX? Looking back with Lancaster, PA's WGAL-TV 8 at the time being available on some cable systems in nearby Maryland, having a translator airing WXEX to me was odd? Much less being able to get WXEX's signal that far north in West Virginia and Western Maryland.

However by 1982 channel 18 ( and the WXEX programming ) was GONE !!!
 
I have heard that translators started like pirate radio in the hinterlands when stations started opening in major cities. Local people in remote places, some with an interest in selling televisions or tv/radio repair guys, some with an interest in bringing "big city" programming there, would gin up their own translator rigs. Sometimes the operators would seek out and listen to community input about what shows people wanted to watch, sometimes they would just be a toy for the operator to pick his own favorites to rebroadcast or impress his neighbors. Many of the neighbors in remote places wouldn't even have a tv anyway, so it usually would be more of a toy to show to friends or try to sell them a tv rather than a community service thing.

Only a few of these translators that were community-based, dues-paying deals [from people with tv's and money already] ever made any revenue, much less profits. In a few years, the [mostly] guys running them died off or got into other fields [licensed station engineering, for example], so most of the unlicensed ones fell into disrepair. In a few years, too, the licensed tv stations were wanting to expand, so they started "official" translators that were easier for the public to keep track of.
 
Nitelinger said:
The final chapter of my forthcoming book on Milwaukee TV history will be on translator stations, and opens with background on how they started.

My WTVW/WISN-TV chapter has some details re: W70AO (their Fond du Lac translator).

You will, I hope, keep us posted as to when said book comes out?
 
w9wi said:
Nitelinger said:
The final chapter of my forthcoming book on Milwaukee TV history will be on translator stations, and opens with background on how they started.

My WTVW/WISN-TV chapter has some details re: W70AO (their Fond du Lac translator).

You will, I hope, keep us posted as to when said book comes out?

Absolutely! I'd say more now, but I'm working hard to tie up the last few loose ends before my final manuscript submission deadline.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom