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Get Over It!

C

Chris_Hammond

Guest
A well known and repected consultant once said to me, "Radio is an appliance. People care more about their microwave oven, if the truth be known."
WCBS-FM is a radio station and nothing more. The owners of a radio station, who have tens of millions of dollars invested in this property, have a right to make whatever formatic choices they wish to improve their ratings and billing status.... no what we think. If you owned a station, you'd be the same way. You KNOW you would.

Yesterday's demonstration in New York drew maybe 150 people people. In Wildwood, New Jersey, a similar demonstration against WCMC drew almost as many people. In Wildwood, that's impressive. In Manhattan, there's a bigger line at Starbuck's. This demonstration was not even a blip on the radar and it proves the statment I opened this post with.

Also, this stuff about "_______ " supports the station that fired "______" is nonsense. People in radio get fired without warning or farewell every day. Radio vets understand and accept this as the way business is done. That doesn't make it right...it's how things are. All of the CBS-FM jocks were paid excellent salaries and the vets like Bruce, Bill and Harry may now retire to their comfortable homes with a good severence package and the best wishes of thousands of fans. I doubt any benefits will be needed to help them buy bread.

It's about demographics....demograhpics that a station can market with success in the eyes of management. As long as demographics are the Bible of the business, these things will continue to happen no matter what we think.

For those of you who will miss WCBS-FM, switch to a local station that plays oldies if you have one. Buy an iPod. Get XM, get Sirius, but most of all get over it.
 
Sir, no truer words have been spoken.

As a person who supporter Opie and Anthony and Ron And Fez when they were summarily dumped from WNEW, I got the same feelings of cringe when I saw the rallying cry of people trying to save the station.

And guess what the difference was there? R&F and O&A got money demos.

Bruce isn't dead. He's on Sirius. I'm sure that eventually, some other CBS personalities may wander over there as well.

If you're so adamant about supporting CBS, then you can shell out the 100 bucks for equipment plus 150 a year to hear a decent simulation on Sirius - with no commercials.

But then again, given CBS' demo, the Sirius equipment maybe be too big for them to handle...

<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by bw on 06/22/05 05:01 PM.</FONT></P>
 
What!?! Are you kidding? No way!!!!!!

Had this been any other radio station, I'd have said you're right.

But this was not just any other radio station. WCBS FM was THE oldies station, and the one that started the trend. They were the pioneers in the format, and the station from whih all other Oldies stations tried to be emulate. As goes NYC so goes most of the country.

I have nothing personal with Jack FM, perfectly good format, if you like music without Jocks, just a different way of doing things. But it's left the biggiest market in the country without an oldies station, and that could have rippling effects througout the industry. The oldies format is not just some group of moldy old songs nobody cares about, it is the old Top 40, kind of like a museum for radio. I have to tell you, I prefer listening to oldies sometimes, because I get tired of hearing the same 3 Nelly and Eminem songs all day long. But withoiut that format, without the chance to hear things the way they were, leaves radio a pretty dry place.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you.
And 150 people protesting is not bad. You can be sure, if there were 150 people on the street, there were hundreds more who didn't, but probably stopped tunning to 101.1 when the station flipped.
IMHO.

(again, not dissing the Jack FM format, but destroying CBS FM's oldies format to do it, not a good way to go, IMHO).

<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by bw on 06/22/05 05:00 PM.</FONT></P>
 
I agree...while it's too bad no one got to say goodbye and that there was no farewell show, times change, nothing lasts forever. It's not coming back, so time to move on indeed.
>
<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by bw on 06/22/05 04:59 PM.</FONT></P>
 
Being a Capitalist over an Oldies radio fan, I will agree that your economics are correct. The radio business is usually pretty cold.

Someone else once called radio a utility. Just like the tap water, it is there,it is free and it is used, but if it was not there, it would be missed and there would be a lot of complaining to bring the service back. I mean radio in general, not any particular format or station.

There are two other places that we can hear WCBS-FM without any jocks for now. That is the official stream at wcbsfm.com and the stream that is on with the songs and jingles. Also now there is a growing library of airchecks on the cbsfm101.com website.

Economics is nicknamed The Dismal Science. It can get pretty cold but Capitalism is the most efficient way of doing business. I hope that greater Capitalism will be allowed in the radio business.

> A well known and repected consultant once said to me, "Radio
> is an appliance. People care more about their microwave
> oven, if the truth be known."
> WCBS-FM is a radio station and nothing more. The owners of a
> radio station, who have tens of millions of dollars invested
> in this property, have a right to make whatever formatic
> choices they wish to improve their ratings and billing
> status.... no what we think. If you owned a station, you'd
> be the same way. You KNOW you would.
>
> Yesterday's demonstration in New York drew maybe 150 people
> people. In Wildwood, New Jersey, a similar demonstration
> against WCMC drew almost as many people. In Wildwood, that's
> impressive. In Manhattan, there's a bigger line at
> Starbuck's. This demonstration was not even a blip on the
> radar and it proves the statment I opened this post with.
>
> Also, this stuff about "_______ " supports the station that
> fired "______" is nonsense. People in radio get fired
> without warning or farewell every day. Radio vets understand
> and accept this as the way business is done. That doesn't
> make it right...it's how things are. All of the CBS-FM jocks
> were paid excellent salaries and the vets like Bruce, Bill
> and Harry may now retire to their comfortable homes with a
> good severence package and the best wishes of thousands of
> fans. I doubt any benefits will be needed to help them buy
> bread.
>
> It's about demographics....demograhpics that a station can
> market with success in the eyes of management. As long as
> demographics are the Bible of the business, these things
> will continue to happen no matter what we think.
>
> For those of you who will miss WCBS-FM, switch to a local
> station that plays oldies if you have one. Buy an iPod. Get
> XM, get Sirius, but most of all get over it.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>
 
I agree with you. I also heard that Infinity was beaten to Jack by one day in three markets. That may have been part of the consideration to shut the station down cold on June 3rd.

In defense of Infinity, if they did not do what was in the best interest of their shareholders, then the officers would be fired, the Board Of Directors replaced and possibly somebody would be sued for negligence.

They are accountable first to shareholder and second to sponsors/advertisers. Where does that leave listeners?

The best way to send a message is to let the advertisers know of your displeasure, because they have to account to their shareholders.

Good luck, I hope someone else starts playing the solid gold rock and roll.

> I agree...while it's too bad no one got to say goodbye and
> that there was no farewell show, times change, nothing lasts
> forever. It's not coming back, so time to move on indeed.
> >
>
<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>
 
> I agree...while it's too bad no one got to say goodbye and
> that there was no farewell show, times change, nothing lasts
> forever. It's not coming back, so time to move on indeed.
> >
>
Makes sense. If they did a farewell show, someone else could have jumped in and shut their station down cold and beat CBS to the punch. I never thought of it that way. Explains the secrecy and suddenness of the move to Jack.
 
> There are two other places that we can hear WCBS-FM without
> any jocks for now. That is the official stream at
> wcbsfm.com and the stream that is on with the songs and
> jingles. Also now there is a growing library of airchecks
> on the cbsfm101.com website.

Shameless plug...

http://67.85.115.5:8010 for the CBS-FM stream with pre 64 music & classic jingles....<P ID="signature">______________

AOL IM: wnjoldies or jamminoldies105
CBS-FM lives at http://67.83.115.5:8010
Oldies Board co-moderator</P>
 
give 'em a break, cat

I have to agree here-- it feels like most of the venom toward Infinity comes not from the fact they brought JACK to town but with which station he replaced.
CBS-FM had become an institution in New York and throughout America.

It is the cold, hard, economic reality of radio, but what would it hurt to let
folks vent their frustration about it. At least it shows the level of passion for what had become a legend in it's format and radio in general.

I still believe in the court of public opinion- it's one of the things that makes America great and it's why discussion groups like this exist.


> Had this been any other radio station, I'd have said you're
> right.
>
> But this was not just any other radio station. WCBS FM was
> THE oldies station, and the one that started the trend. They
> were the pioneers in the format, and the station from whih
> all other Oldies stations tried to be emulate. As goes NYC
> so goes most of the country.

>
 
Just imagine: "Microwave-info.com"

> A well known and repected consultant once said to me, "Radio
> is an appliance. People care more about their microwave
> oven, if the truth be known."

I see your point, and not saying I disagree entirely. But your comment brought to mind the fact that this is a board of people really enthusiastic about radio, such as it is these days. I was just trying to imagine an online board of people discussing, hashing and rehashing microwave ovens.

Such as:

"What about the Sharp CX780? I can't believe they killed that model! What is the world coming to?!?"

or:

"The microwave industry just isn't what it used to be -- it's so sad to see shape it's in nowadays.."

etc. etc.
 
No. Deal with It!

> A well known and repected consultant once said to me...

I have seen quite a few consultants consult some gullible radio station owners right out of business. Consultants don't know everything.

> ..."Radio is an appliance. People care more about
> their microwave oven, if the truth be known."
> WCBS-FM is a radio station and nothing more.

OK, so a radio is just a bunch of electronic components, and a radio station is just a bunch of electronic equipment. It's not about the electronics, its about what it's used for. Sure, my microwave is just a transmitter, but if my microwave suddenly stopped working I wouldn't be able to cook, and therefore I would have to eat crappy fast food. Sure I could still eat, but not my favorite TV dinner. So is true for Radio stations. People tune in every day and make it part of their daily routines. They expect to turn on the radio in the morning and hear what they like, hear the friendly sounds that get them to and from work each day. Something to make their dreary little insignificant lives just a little brighter. Now, there is a void for the CBS FM listeners. Part of their day is missing. Believe it or not, for a lot of former CBS listeners they lost an old friend. So to say that a radio is just an appliance is kind of short sighted. Sure it is an appliance, but what it is used for is what really matters. True Case in point that Infinity Broadcasting does have the right to do whatever they want with their radio stations. They hold the license, and they can program however they see fit. That doesn't make it any less shocking and disapointing for the former listeners. I think people need to be able to cry out over the loss of their favorite station in order to get over it. Heck, when WLIR went away, the backlash was so much that Lance opened up a special WLIR tribute board for us so that it wouldn't overwhelm our Long Island board, and we knew that WLIR was ending ahead of time. The CBS-FM thing was a suprise. So let the CBS FM fans vent. Deal with it. I think it is the least we can do for them. This isn't something that everyone can get over right away, even though eventually they will.
 
Re: Just imagine: "Microwave-info.com"

Hey! My Amana Radarange(tm) won't power up. Could it be a fuse?

CJ

No, seriously...I mean it.
 
a request for the masses

Can we please stop with the "consultants suck" diatribe?

a) it's old and tired
b) no consultant has ever said they know everything
c) consultants killing radio stations is an urban myth and simply not true

Here's the truth: a lot of station owners, GMs and PDs through the years have blamed "the consultant" for changing formats, firing jocks and so on. It was easier to do that than have the guts to admit it was their idea.

So, please--is is possible to bury this cheap and easy (and untrue) rant for good?
thanks



> I have seen quite a few consultants consult some gullible
> radio station owners right out of business. Consultants
> don't know everything.
 
Moving On...

I agree with both sides here. The reason for this board is so that people can vent all about changes made to the industry. If you think CBS screwed up, say it! If you think Jack is miserable, say that too. If you miss Oldies let's hear it!
HOWEVER, this is the decision Infinity chose. Starting 3 or so threads about CBS needing to bring oldies back is probably a waste of time...in that regard, it is time to move on. Radio is a business like any other. When businesses change, some are happy some are not. Sadly most of it is beyond the average person/listener's control.
 
Re: What!?! Are you kidding? No way!!!!!!

> Sorry, but I have to disagree with you.
> And 150 people protesting is not bad. You can be sure, if
> there were 150 people on the street, there were hundreds
> more who didn't, but probably stopped tunning to 101.1 when
> the station flipped.
> IMHO.

I am curious if anyone who protested expected more people to turn out. I think what is going on here is the halo effect, by that I mean because the discussion here (and on sniffen's board) has been so abundant that an assumption was made that every New Yorker felt that way.

An older demographic seems to be in the majority here (ESP. Sniffen's board), and no insult intended, the media conglomerates have decided that this demographic is not as lucrative as the demographic that the new station tries to attract.

I have unfortunately also been the victim of losing favorite radio stations in my time (I lived in Boca when dance heavy Party went away, and now Orlando after Party went away, and before that I experienced the loss of dance heavy Q in Philly) and it is hard to grasp that radio is a business. When a favorite station is lost radio no longer seems the same- it seems cold and cruel, you never turn on the radio and experience it the same way. Time changes and we are sheltered by certain familiarities that remain static- a favorite newspaper, a favorite sandwich we order every day, and yes, a favorite radio station- this is the human way.

Food for thought.
 
Re: What!?! Are you kidding? No way!!!!!!

> > Sorry, but I have to disagree with you.
> > And 150 people protesting is not bad. You can be sure, if
> > there were 150 people on the street, there were hundreds
> > more who didn't, but probably stopped tunning to 101.1
> when
> > the station flipped.
> > IMHO.
>
> I am curious if anyone who protested expected more people to
> turn out. I think what is going on here is the halo effect,
> by that I mean because the discussion here (and on sniffen's
> board) has been so abundant that an assumption was made that
> every New Yorker felt that way.
>
> An older demographic seems to be in the majority here (ESP.
> Sniffen's board), and no insult intended, the media
> conglomerates have decided that this demographic is not as
> lucrative as the demographic that the new station tries to
> attract.
>

Well written, couldnt agree with your more, it almost becomes part of who you are and to not have it anymore....
> I have unfortunately also been the victim of losing favorite
> radio stations in my time (I lived in Boca when dance heavy
> Party went away, and now Orlando after Party went away, and
> before that I experienced the loss of dance heavy Q in
> Philly) and it is hard to grasp that radio is a business.
> When a favorite station is lost radio no longer seems the
> same- it seems cold and cruel, you never turn on the radio
> and experience it the same way. Time changes and we are
> sheltered by certain familiarities that remain static- a
> favorite newspaper, a favorite sandwich we order every day,
> and yes, a favorite radio station- this is the human way.
>
> Food for thought.
>
 
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