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Get rid of channels 2 through 6

vchimpanzee said:
I read about WBRA, the PBS station in Roanoke, VA, on this site. The person complained the station became useless if a thunderstorm was within 50 miles. These things are going to become more obvious in the summer.

I've had almost no lightning trouble with my UHF stations. I once saw a bunch of squares when lightning flashed. That was it.
Click to expand...

That person was me. It's actually greater than 50 miles, but is more pronounced if the antenna is aimed in the same direction. My antenna is aimed west, so if the lightning is east of me, it doesn't bother the signal as much after 20 miles or so, though I've had lightning 90 miles to the west trash WBRA-DT.

- Trip
 
Maybe someone who knows more about the 8-VSB system could enlighten me. The UK adopted DVB-T for the terrestrial TV system. The standard allows for different modulation modes, coding rates and guard intervals.

Does the 8-VSB system allow for different modes that would result in a lower bitrate but a more robust signal - and use that on the low VHF?
 
Mark Wooldridge said:
Maybe someone who knows more about the 8-VSB system could enlighten me. The UK adopted DVB-T for the terrestrial TV system. The standard allows for different modulation modes, coding rates and guard intervals.

Does the 8-VSB system allow for different modes that would result in a lower bitrate but a more robust signal - and use that on the low VHF?
Click to expand...

No. Mobile ATSC does support something like that, however. And nobody's going to be using Mobile DTV on low-VHF.

- Trip
 
tripinva said:
vchimpanzee said:
I read about WBRA, the PBS station in Roanoke, VA, on this site. The person complained the station became useless if a thunderstorm was within 50 miles. These things are going to become more obvious in the summer.

I've had almost no lightning trouble with my UHF stations. I once saw a bunch of squares when lightning flashed. That was it.
Click to expand...

That person was me. It's actually greater than 50 miles, but is more pronounced if the antenna is aimed in the same direction. My antenna is aimed west, so if the lightning is east of me, it doesn't bother the signal as much after 20 miles or so, though I've had lightning 90 miles to the west trash WBRA-DT.

- Trip
Click to expand...
Are they going to fix this? This can't be satisfactory.
 
vchimpanzee said:
Are they going to fix this? This can't be satisfactory.
Click to expand...

It's a bit late now.

- Trip
 
Changing the old VHF TV channels in to an expanded analog-FM band would be a disaster, since each 6-MHz channel will just be room for 30 additional "BibleCaster" translator channels. And, we all know (or should know) that they would be filed for withing a few minutes of the FCC opening a filing window for them.

I have nothing against a few religious stations in a market. I just wish they would do some local origination, and I don't think they should license as teranslators, operating on multiple channels within the same market.

I think that the channel 5 and 6 band should be opened up to existing broadcasters who would like to move their "HD Radio" operations down there. After all, what are the reasons we "all hate HD Radio"?....It interferes with existing adjacent channel stations, and...being a hybrid, it is hard to receive the low-powered Digital sidebands.

So, the fix is:
(1) Move it to it's own band, with new geographic separation criteria.
(2) Make it Digital-only (not hybrid), and raise the power to where it would serve an area similar to the existing analog coverage.

Make the stations that move (actually, that simulcast an HD Radio signal, with one channel duplicating their analog station) there keep everything, beyond the source, completely Digital.....if you want to broadcast 78 RPM Victrola records or wax cylinders, you have to A-to-D it right at the source.
Keep the processing to a minimum...you don't need to squish everything. You could do most of the processing at the receivers, adjusting for the listener's environment, anyway.

College stations, which broadcast classical, or that seemingly-forgotten format, Jazz, might be the pioneers of all this. Their listeners are pretty loyal, and many have a tendency to improve their systems (see "Fanfare" receivers and FM antennas, if you want to know what I'm talking about).

AFAIK, all the HD Radio tuners and receivers are Software Defined Radios (SDR), so they would only require minimal upgrades to receive the new frequencies.

The exception to all this, something we've talked about at KSL, would be to open up one new analog FM service at 87.9 or 87.7 MHz. This would be limited to a watt or less, contained within public sports venues, and would be available to local stations that broadcast sporting events from those venues. This would allow spectators to listen to a non-delayed broadcast on their portable radios, without the delays associated with the live, over the air broadcast.
 
kenglish said:
AFAIK, all the HD Radio tuners and receivers are Software Defined Radios (SDR), so they would only require minimal upgrades to receive the new frequencies.
Click to expand...

How do you upgrade a SDR [HD or otherwise], anyway?
 
I disagree that 2-6 should not go away, because of three things.

Tropo
E-skip
Meteor Scatter

-crainbebo
 
Here's something I posted close to a year ago that seems to fit this thread:

With the growth of southern and western cities beyond many of their AM station’s nighttime reach, poor ground conductivity, decreasing number of listeners, IBOC and other interference, AM radio is dying. This is proven by more stations (WIBC, WTOP, etc.) jumping to FM.

So, let’s move to a perfect world where no station is left behind. Say, after TV moves to digital (and digital chs. 2-6 are reallocated), the FCC opens up the lower FM band for existing AM stations to move there. With every AM frequency being given an FM frequency, the band would look something like this:

mhz
54–60.5 … (existing TV channel 2)
60.7–71.9 … existing AM 540-1100 khz would go here
72–76 … (existing fixed/mobile/radio astronomy/aeronautical navigation)
76.1–87.9 … existing AM 1110-1700 hkz would go here

So your new FM tuner would go from 60.7 – 107.9 mhz with existing AM stations moved to the lower part of the dial. (With the reallocation, the FCC could probably put more AM stations in the new FM band or not need as much of the FM band, but I’m trying to keep it simple so I can understand it.)

SO, do you think it would work? Is there a downside to it? How do you think your market would react and utilize this opportunity? Would it open the door for more formats? Should the AM clears be allowed to continue on AM for travel and/or emergency purposes?

Basically, what do you think the results would be in your market in one year after the AM stations moved to FM?
Click to expand...

This solution (or a form of it) would allow the clear channel AM stations to be really "clear" again.

Food for thought... ;)
 
Another option for Channel 2 would be to expand the 6 meter ham band through channel 2 and allocate it for amateur television (ATV). When sporadic-E or tropo openings occur, this would make for interesting DX.
 
Channels 2-6 are totally worthless for full power DTV, they should be used for FM radio ch.5 and 6 and the rest for other uses. KNSO ch.5 (51.1) always had a bad signal in Fresno, Their moving to ch.11 tomorrow, the rest of the stations have no problem coming in even KAIL 7.1 in what was a all UHF market, which KAIL ch 7 switched from 53 works with a UHF 4 Bay antenna where I'm at in Clovis.
 
Even odds that DTV stations on channels 2-6 will move to UHF. They'll complain to the FCC citing loss of ratings, and then hopefully move to a vacant UHF. For now, the losers are any channel unfortunate enough to be on channels 2-6.
 
Nick said:
Even odds that DTV stations on channels 2-6 will move to UHF. They'll complain to the FCC citing loss of ratings, and then hopefully move to a vacant UHF. For now, the losers are any channel unfortunate enough to be on channels 2-6.
Click to expand...

I agree as over on the Philadelphia TV board there are a number of complaints on WPVI's DT-6. I think they'll get so many complaints they will either move to a vacant UHF or try and take VHF 10 as WCAU gave it up for WYBE's DT-34.

I'm down in Dover, DE and IMHO all of Kent County's OTA viewers should switch from (ABC) WPVI's weak VHF to WMAR's strong (1 megawatt IIRC) UHF 38. Oh, WMAR 2-2 is SD. :D
 
ajc_trw said:
I agree as over on the Philadelphia TV board there are a number of complaints on WPVI's DT-6. I think they'll get so many complaints they will either move to a vacant UHF or try and take VHF 10 as WCAU gave it up for WYBE's DT-34.

I'm down in Dover, DE and IMHO all of Kent County's OTA viewers should switch from (ABC) WPVI's weak VHF to WMAR's strong (1 megawatt IIRC) UHF 38. Oh, WMAR 2-2 is SD. :D
Click to expand...
This is inexcuseable that channel 6 is having problems with their digital transmitter settings or whatever. They need to fix it now. I hope that people will even call the FCC about the way channel 6 is handling this problem.
 
Best thing is to complain to the advertisers on channel 6 that they aren't reaching as many viewers as they expect because of the signal problems. Once the money stops flowing in, then they'll do something about it.
 
ajc_trw said:
I agree as over on the Philadelphia TV board there are a number of complaints on WPVI's DT-6. I think they'll get so many complaints they will either move to a vacant UHF or try and take VHF 10 as WCAU gave it up for WYBE's DT-34.
Click to expand...

WYBE is Channel 35, as they were in analog. Channel 34 is virtual channel 10.
 
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