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fred flintstone
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News1360
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Here in Atlanta, WWAA-AM moved from 1690 to 1160 and switched its format from liberal talk to business-talk two weeks ago. Face it, these stations are letting the "air" out of this network!fred flintstone said:
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fred flintstone
Guest
As posted earlier this month...
http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,40034.0.html
The station Ops Mgr publicly expressed dissatisfaction with the progressive talk formats ratings and revenue performance - and conservative activists were threaten to boycott advertisers on Ed Schultz' program.
And to paraphrase the song, if Jerry Springer can't make it there (in Cincinnati, his hometown - where used to be mayor), he can't make it anywhere. One wonders what might have happened if they'd put Stephanie Miller in late mornings and done a decent local show in morning drive.
The station in Atlanta has kept Al Franken in the middle of their business format - a formula for guaranteed failure for Franken and for the new format. I smell pay to play. Then again, is this station doing a real business news format for a bunch of brokered financial advice infomercials (Buy Gold!)? In which case, who cares if they put Franken in there. Nobody will be listening any way.
http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,40034.0.html
The station Ops Mgr publicly expressed dissatisfaction with the progressive talk formats ratings and revenue performance - and conservative activists were threaten to boycott advertisers on Ed Schultz' program.
And to paraphrase the song, if Jerry Springer can't make it there (in Cincinnati, his hometown - where used to be mayor), he can't make it anywhere. One wonders what might have happened if they'd put Stephanie Miller in late mornings and done a decent local show in morning drive.
The station in Atlanta has kept Al Franken in the middle of their business format - a formula for guaranteed failure for Franken and for the new format. I smell pay to play. Then again, is this station doing a real business news format for a bunch of brokered financial advice infomercials (Buy Gold!)? In which case, who cares if they put Franken in there. Nobody will be listening any way.
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SeanMGilbow
Guest
We're happy in Columbus. Progressive talk made a big gain from the last month.
AM 1230 WTPG posted a 1.7, up from 1.4. The latest numbers nearly double last year at this time.
Two words: Stephanie Miller. (I agree with Fred.)
As intelligent and insightful as Jerry Springer may be, Stephanie is much more entertaining. Now with the loss of his flagship station in Cincinnati, he will no longer be heard live in Ohio.
As for Atlanta, two more words: Ed Schultz
A gun-toting, meat-eating liberal is bound to get more attention in Dixie.
And nothing against Mike Malloy, but WOR's Lionel is more effective at getting listeners to see just how ignorant the neocons are.
By the way...WTPG's sister station, 610 WTVN continues to lose listeners, and the drop may precipitate with Limbaugh's latest drug-induced episode.
AM 1230 WTPG posted a 1.7, up from 1.4. The latest numbers nearly double last year at this time.
Two words: Stephanie Miller. (I agree with Fred.)
As intelligent and insightful as Jerry Springer may be, Stephanie is much more entertaining. Now with the loss of his flagship station in Cincinnati, he will no longer be heard live in Ohio.
As for Atlanta, two more words: Ed Schultz
A gun-toting, meat-eating liberal is bound to get more attention in Dixie.
And nothing against Mike Malloy, but WOR's Lionel is more effective at getting listeners to see just how ignorant the neocons are.
By the way...WTPG's sister station, 610 WTVN continues to lose listeners, and the drop may precipitate with Limbaugh's latest drug-induced episode.
WTVN isn't slipping because of Rush's drug issues. Rush should be doing better now that Glenn Beck's numbers don't evaporate in the archaic 12pm newshour. They're slipping because it's the only direction to go.
I'm all for progressive talk, but putting it on 1530 in Cincy wasn't the brightest idea. People love to complain about the one-lunged signals AAR gets on, but if it would have gotten on such a signal there, it wouldn't be going away. There aren't that many formats that work that well on a 50kW blowtorch, especially when your big brother's name is WLW.
What happens to WSAI, BTW? I wouldn't be surprised to see a WBZT/WHNZ-style brokered operation swoop in. And it might even make sense to put one of the less vitriolic left wingers on there at night to get an audience for the green tea infomercials. The RWers might complain, but after a good colon cleanse, they'd be much less upset with hearing Ed Schultz.
I'm all for progressive talk, but putting it on 1530 in Cincy wasn't the brightest idea. People love to complain about the one-lunged signals AAR gets on, but if it would have gotten on such a signal there, it wouldn't be going away. There aren't that many formats that work that well on a 50kW blowtorch, especially when your big brother's name is WLW.
What happens to WSAI, BTW? I wouldn't be surprised to see a WBZT/WHNZ-style brokered operation swoop in. And it might even make sense to put one of the less vitriolic left wingers on there at night to get an audience for the green tea infomercials. The RWers might complain, but after a good colon cleanse, they'd be much less upset with hearing Ed Schultz.
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talkjim
Guest
Fred,
You provide a lot of solid information to this board, but you make a lot of factual errors also and you just made another one.
Al Franken is NOT airing in the new business format at 1160 in Atlanta. He is rather on in the midst of the arts programming on 1690. And why do you necessarily smell pay to play? I know for a fact that the owners of WMLB-WWAA had specific interest in Franken (but not the other AAR talkers) since well before the sale of 1690 closed.
Please check before you type.
You provide a lot of solid information to this board, but you make a lot of factual errors also and you just made another one.
Al Franken is NOT airing in the new business format at 1160 in Atlanta. He is rather on in the midst of the arts programming on 1690. And why do you necessarily smell pay to play? I know for a fact that the owners of WMLB-WWAA had specific interest in Franken (but not the other AAR talkers) since well before the sale of 1690 closed.
Please check before you type.
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fred flintstone
Guest
Thank you for the correction.
Given what you say, why would the owner drop other progressive talk programming and keep Franken? He does not fit an "arts" format any more than a business format. If a move does not make programming sense, follow the money.
Given what you say, why would the owner drop other progressive talk programming and keep Franken? He does not fit an "arts" format any more than a business format. If a move does not make programming sense, follow the money.
BTW: Progressive talk isn't gone in Cincy. 1530 and 1360 are merely swapping formats. 1360 will be progressive as of July 7, according to Radio and Records.
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fred flintstone
Guest
For clarification:
Joe Weber's "arts" format was on 1160 and has moved to 1690 (formerly WWAA).
Franken has remained on 1690.
1160 now runs Bloomberg in morning drive and syndicated programming financial advice show from Business Talk Radio Network (and Lifestyle Talk Radio Network) the rest of the day including Doug Stephan in AM drive and Bruce Williams in early evening.
What killed progressive talk in Atlanta? WWAA had a decent signal. IMHO: The problem again was taking the AAR network feed with no local programming especially in morning drive and with Jerry Springer and Reilly/Maddow, both chronic poor performers. Progressive talk stations that do well consistently have: (1) Good signals. (2) Local morning shows. (3) Stephanie Miller. Morning's are crucial in radio and you can't make up for it with Franken. Morning drive anchors a radio station; not midday (Rush to the contrary not withstanding). Still Jon Sinton goes around telling stations and the public it's a mistake not to clear the entire AAR schedule (and specifically, to take Stephanie Miller).
Joe Weber's "arts" format was on 1160 and has moved to 1690 (formerly WWAA).
Franken has remained on 1690.
1160 now runs Bloomberg in morning drive and syndicated programming financial advice show from Business Talk Radio Network (and Lifestyle Talk Radio Network) the rest of the day including Doug Stephan in AM drive and Bruce Williams in early evening.
What killed progressive talk in Atlanta? WWAA had a decent signal. IMHO: The problem again was taking the AAR network feed with no local programming especially in morning drive and with Jerry Springer and Reilly/Maddow, both chronic poor performers. Progressive talk stations that do well consistently have: (1) Good signals. (2) Local morning shows. (3) Stephanie Miller. Morning's are crucial in radio and you can't make up for it with Franken. Morning drive anchors a radio station; not midday (Rush to the contrary not withstanding). Still Jon Sinton goes around telling stations and the public it's a mistake not to clear the entire AAR schedule (and specifically, to take Stephanie Miller).
Interesting they did not mention that in the original release (sent out at close of business so there was no opportunity for follow up - and still not posted on Clear Channel's website).
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Radio_Realist
Guest
Maybe stations that call themselves "progressive" talk stations would do better if they replaced all of their liberal hosts with progressives.
If you advertise "progressive" and then deliver liberals instead, the customers who are expecting progressives are going to be disappointed.
If you advertise "progressive" and then deliver liberals instead, the customers who are expecting progressives are going to be disappointed.
In the larger markets where progressive talk is gaining traction, mornings are less of an issue. In many of these markets, some AMD shows are big winners and others are big losers.
fred flintstone said:
No, AAR won't pay for clearances period, except on WLIB. What you should smell is a contract. Remember Franken almost always requires live clearance and committal by AAR affiliates. There is almost certainly a contract term attached to his show which requires the station to keep the program on, at least until another station wants it or the contract expires.
I would think Springer's days are numbered at AAR, but considering the rest of their morning lineup, he's no better or worse than the rest. Maddow needs to get out of early mornings. Stephanie Miller is going to own the 9-12ET slot if her ratings keep up. If Garafalo gets bored with Majority Report, Seder and Maddow might work well as a team.
Sean Gilbow said:
Lionel's show runs hot and cold. Sometimes he goes way far out with topics almost a lifestyle-like as Tom Leykis used to do. Now that it looks like Scarborough, Rita, and Tucker are about to be shown the door on MSNBC, he's going to lose his favorite whipping boys and girls.
We've touched on this extensively on OMW, but the short version:
Libtalk is heading for 1360 on July 7th, when "Homer" takes over the big stick on 1530.
I wouldn't exactly place any bets on how long the liberal talk format will last beyond that. My gut feeling is that there are contractural issues with Jerry Springer that keep the format alive for now. ("For now" - also what CC's Darryl Parks says about the survival of the format, though he does seem to think it'll work long-term. He didn't make clear, in the newspaper article I'm talking about, if "working long-term" means in general as a radio format or in Cincinnati on 1360.)
Libtalk is heading for 1360 on July 7th, when "Homer" takes over the big stick on 1530.
I wouldn't exactly place any bets on how long the liberal talk format will last beyond that. My gut feeling is that there are contractural issues with Jerry Springer that keep the format alive for now. ("For now" - also what CC's Darryl Parks says about the survival of the format, though he does seem to think it'll work long-term. He didn't make clear, in the newspaper article I'm talking about, if "working long-term" means in general as a radio format or in Cincinnati on 1360.)
Cincy Post article:
http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060701/LIFE/607010322/1005
The 1530homer.com site is under construction...
http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060701/LIFE/607010322/1005
The 1530homer.com site is under construction...
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fred flintstone
Guest
Phil, with all due respect, do you have any evidence for this statement.Phillip Dampier said:
I don't know I either way. It has been said that they do pay fees to at least some major market stations that carry AAR programming. This is a common practice in radio syndication, so it would not be surprising. Fees are often a key consideration when stations decide to take a show (or shows), making radio not too different from retailing (marketers pay for shelf space and display space in stores). Gee, stations picking programs based on fees they are paid!
Maybe Spitzer should investigate!
fred flintstone said:Phil, with all due respect, do you have any evidence for this statement.
I don't know I either way. It has been said that they do pay fees to at least some major market stations that carry AAR programming. This is a common practice in radio syndication, so it would not be surprising. Fees are often a key consideration when stations decide to take a show (or shows), making radio not too different from retailing (marketers pay for shelf space and display space in stores). Gee, stations picking programs based on fees they are paid!
Maybe Spitzer should investigate!
It has been said by whom? AAR has publicly said, consistently, in their entire history of programming, they have paid for airtime on three stations total - the Chicago and LA stations that were yanked during the first month, and for WLIB. That is it. The only ones I have seen claim otherwise are those who say they are paying for airtime and then finish the sentence with "because they are failing." We have beat this subject to death in this forum for two years now. We've got radio people in this forum. Nobody directly involved has ever claimed anything other than:
1) AAR does not pay for launch bonuses, live clearances, etc.
2) The old Democracy Radio group of shows -do- pay for clearances and launch bonuses. To date, we've only got definite evidence it's for Ed Schultz's show, with direct payments for launch bonuses, with extra for a guaranteed live clearance. This is not for every station.
I agree that launch bonuses are common in the industry. Satellite Sisters are a good recent example of their use. Hell, we can see some consideration being paid with WLIB, hence Malloy's displacement in NY. I don't personally care whether AAR pays them or not, but I have not seen any actual facts to counter the established facts we collectively gathered on this last year when it was especially a hot topic.
I don't agree that a launch bonus is sufficient to carry a station's decision to launch a program. It may buy an extra push towards saying "yes" or guarantee a live clearance or a minimum commitment of some kind, but it's not going to be the ultimate issue for most stations, unless it's "dollar a holler" paid airtime, and then it will likely end up on the bottom feeder stations already carrying paid time shows.
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fred flintstone
Guest
The only "established fact" is AAR SAYS they don't do pay to play.
It is not an "established fact" that AAR does not do pay to play.
Nor is it an "established fact" that AAR does do pay to play.
But it wouldn't surprise me if they did.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
If they could get clearances on better sticks in better markets with pay to play, it would not be such a bad idea. It would make more sense than the Drobnys' Nova M going out and doing LMAs on bottom feeders.
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