Good For Radio?

[Bobbo]

And losing the overnights (and even any airshift after 10am in many, many "big" market outlets) has been only one of MANY aspects of programming that have been adversely affected by LACK OF COMPETITION at that (programming/personality) level.

Nope.

Yep.

 

[TheBigA]

And losing the overnights (and even any airshift after 10am in many, many "big" market outlets) has been only one of MANY aspects of programming that have been adversely affected by LACK OF COMPETITION at that (programming/personality) level.

Nope.

Yep.

This is how a two-year-old deals with facts.

You don't understand the dark side of competitition. Competition means there are winners and losers. I live in a town that for a long time only had one place for a big burrito. Then a bunch of new burrito joints opened up. That glutted the market. And the old place shut down, along with a bunch of other ones. There's only so much money in a market for burritos. You glut the market, and something's gotta give. And the best burrito doesn't win. Just the one that's the cheapest. Docket 80-90 glutted the market. Too many radio stations. The only way stations like The Eagle stay on the air is if it's owned by a company that can afford a 1 share station. Otherwise you'd have ten country stations in Dallas. All playing the same songs and trying to outdo the other for who plays the most music. That's the game. "Best" doesn't win in competition. Cheap wins. That's why all the quality local stores have gone out of business, replaced by Wal Mart.

 

[Bobbo]

This is how a two-year-old deals with facts.

I'll offer (without a dismissive, condescending "Nope.") that it's how a lifelong programmer, writer, and professional "funny dude" interprets your singular take on the corporate approach and management of the industry. Nothing wrong with competition, and we always have to maintain advertising dollars to continue to work in the confines of commercial broadcasting--even from the purely entertainment-based realm of show/personality delivery and performance. I find your embrace of what consolidation has done to the honorable profession of such to be inorganic, and sad...and I think stations would do better to build their respective shares in any given market by building audiences and rewarding them by endorsing and maintaining quality-driven, entertaining shows.

I'm also concerned by the inevitable killing off of what used to be a very organic (and necessary) means by which personalities were given the opportunity to move up, move down, or move over either inside their own station or market, or between respective ones. What a great majority of us seem to be expressing is a feeling of great loss at that "familiar voice and companion unobtrusive" that the band Rush sang about.

Respectfully disagree, Big A. You may be right about revenues, and the beauty of having one "programmer" to run multiple slots in a cluster, but nobody's buying that--not among on-air people I know. You'll note that I've thoughtfully included that these are opinions of mine drawn from conclusions led be personal experience and dialog with my friends in the biz, who are all working within the industry, same as you and I; so I'd appreciate your not dismissing my insights out-of-hand with another "Nope." Thanks in advance, we'll see if you can stand to afford a stranger that small level of mutual respect.

 

[TheBigA]

I'll offer (without a dismissive, condescending "Nope.") that it's how a lifelong programmer, writer, and professional "funny dude" interprets your singular take on the corporate approach and management of the industry.

Who's still working? You want competition? Guess who won. As I said, there's a dark side to competition, and what you have now is what competition caused. Welcome to the future. You want competition? Try to beat a radio station that has fewer commercials. They can afford to do that by cutting their on air costs. Do people tune in for more talk from a ego-driven personality? Or for more music? I rest my case.

There's nothing radio can do to "maintain advertising dollars." That's the domain of the clients. They're swayed by what's "new & hot," and that's not radio. You want radio to go back to the way it used to be. That's not going to happen. All the out of work on-air folks can pool their money, buy a station, and show us how to do it. Make my day.

 

[TheBigA]

I'm also concerned by the inevitable killing off of what used to be a very organic (and necessary) means by which personalities were given the opportunity to move up, move down, or move over either inside their own station or market, or between respective ones.

Competition breeds jealousy. DJs are less interested in training some new kid, because they feel they're training their replacement. In a union gig, where you have mandated staffing, the master trains the apprentice. He doesn't feel threatened because he knows his job is protected. In competition, everyone is looking for an edge. There is no mandated staffing in radio. Even engineers have been replaced by computers.

 

[bturner]

I think we hit a nerve with The Big A. That nerve may be how this topic pops up here and there. He does make many accurate points but I feel we base our opinion on the radio we know and have seen. I have seen his side as well. I've seen the side he claims vanished before I was born but that I experienced.

It boils down to this: there are 'needs' every human being has and radio will either pay attention to those or will not. When there was more of an emphasis on those needs, radio in general had more loyalty from listeners and was more successful. People want to feel a part of the greater community (sites such as this serve this need) and we want to know our world is safe before we head out for the day (which is why news seems to be common morning drive programming in much of media). Radio still enjoys lots of 'me' time or 'alone' time with in car listening. Is radio stilll a part of the mix in water cooler talk or is it just the latest U-Tube video or Facebook page?

Pre-1980 radio took many more dollars to operate each month than it does today (and yes, it is likely a higher percentage had red ink flowing). Today you don't find blank places on the dial. There are too many stations in most places. I wonder if the sheer number of stations is why radio seems to be floundering financially or if it has been at least partly due to content.

There is successful radio still doing what it was doing all along but these are scattered. Many are in unrated markets. In these cases, listeners have emotional bonds with their stations. They are still 'trusted friends' and its not a lack of competition that makes them this way but the reputation they have. They might be called old school but they are what the market wants and expects and they are pulling it off financially. They might be a dying breed but they seem to be living large and in good health.

One question from an earlier post was where was the next wave of talent going to come from. That is a question I have heard many, many times. I ask the same question. Radio was once like baseball. You had all these teams all over the nation where players could earn the skills and experience in hopes of getting good enough to make it to the majors. Today the farm teams are gone in radio. Certainly we need a lot fewer farm teams to supply the proving ground for major markets but I wonder if that ratio of farm teams to major market is at the point there is little if any competition for the top spots or is it the fact the former morning guy across town gave up his job at Target to take a shift at that major market station as a board-op.

I don't see a healthy future for radio. I see competition grabbing listeners and radio pretending it is still in the limelight. The fact is radio is still holding strong but needs to wake up to the competition. Sure, access to stations has seen great strides but I fear the competitive feel has not trickled down to content. If content is such that radio is chosen over other sources, radio wins. If not, we might be having our very own Kodak moment (considering Kodak is not in great financial shape).

 

[TheBigA]

I think we hit a nerve with The Big A. That nerve may be how this topic pops up here and there. He does make many accurate points but I feel we base our opinion on the radio we know and have seen.

No, the opinions I'm responding to are the radio we KNEW. Or THOUGHT we knew, because there's a lot of mythology there. The radio we KNEW operated in the America we knew. Both of those things are gone. There used to be an abundance of local advertisers. They've been replaced by national chain stores. Radio used to have a monopoly on portable entertainment. Not any more. People used to be willing to put up with a lot to hear their favorite songs. Not any more. Radio won't be going back to the way it used to be because NOTHING is the way it used to be.

Where's the talent going to come from? Twenty five years ago, George Jones asked "Who's gonna fill their shoes." Guess what...that's not a problem. Lots of people come along and fill the shoes of those who passed. These new people are responding to the NEW needs of the people. Because the "needs" you talk about have changed as the overall media environment changed. Talent comes along all the time. The small music clubs have mostly disappeared too, and yet we have more recording artists than ever before. They can't hone their talents in the clubs, because they're all gone. But they find a way to do it. Same with comedians, actors, and writers. Lots of places to hone talent if you're really interested. But the old ways are gone. They're not coming back. Congress will not be passing the DJ Full Employment Act. So get used to the new reality.

 

[bturner]

The Big A seems to have his feathers ruffled with his sarcasm and joy of argument. I agree to disagree. We obviously walk two different paths. I understand we are both in radio and have spent most of our lives in the business. You are right nothing is the same. I live in 2012 as well. No point here needed.

 

[MissyRadio]

I think I know what the A in Big A stands for now.

Nobody in this thread has asked for the DJ Full Employment Act. The only act I want is the one that says an entity can't own more than 3 stations in one market. That's right, 3 stations total. And no cross ownership of other media. Golly, you think "today's "modern" marketplace can handle that? Oh my, we couldn't possibly support ourselves on advertising alone. Why there's only over 50,000 local businesses in Dallas/Fort Worth. How could we possible survive? (Faints)

Will some smaller stations die or go dark? Sure. Good bye. Survival of the fittest. Competition ends up helping serve the consumer. But you need to have regulation to control it. (See 2008)

By the way, I hope you don't sell radio time. I can just imagine your pitch, "Um, you see, we're not making an emotional connection to the listener, we're just background music. Now, sign on the dotted line."

Do people tune in for more talk from a ego-driven personality? Or for more music?

People tune-in to a dynamic smart personality that's not handcuffed by management. Why in the world would I listen to a music station when I can hear all the music I want on my iphone?

All the out of work on-air folks can pool their money, buy a station, and show us how to do it. Make my day.

I haven't been on-air but I know people. Can I borrow $5 million?

 

[TheBigA]

The only act I want is the one that says an entity can't own more than 3 stations in one market. That's right, 3 stations total.

Not going to happen. Regardless of who gets elected. As I said, if such a rule was returned, you'd have ten country stations all playing the same songs, and battling over who plays the most music. Now you only have two. But I bet CC would like to jump in the pool.

Competition ends up helping serve the consumer. But you need to have regulation to control it. (See 2008)

Your governor doesn't believe in regulation infringing on business. Same with your Congressmen and Senators.

Competition only helps the consumer in terms of price. The cheapest wins. That means the fewest commercials. The way to do that is fire the air staff. Competition means that fringe formats like The Eagle go away. That station could not exist on its own. Consumers want lots of stations, and they don't care who owns them, as long as they don't have to pay.

People tune-in to a dynamic smart personality that's not handcuffed by management.

That may be what YOU want. Most people want the DJ to shut up and play the music. I can show you pages of comments sheets from listeners who say that. The minute the DJ starts talking, listeners change the station.

You're mad at me because I'm telling you the truth. You should be mad at your fellow radio consumers and Texas voters. They're the ones responsible. It's in radio's best interest to give the people what they want. If the people wanted smart personalities not handcuffed my management, that's what you'd get. But the people want gossip and fighting and who's cheating on who.

 

[MissyRadio]

Who said I was mad at you? ;D I asked for reasons on how consolidation was really good for the industry and the listener and the folks who want to work at a place that was almost magical. Is the law going to change? Of course not. I just wanted to hear the spin from the other side.

I also said thank you for responding. I don't agree with your logic. There have never been 10 stations playing country music here in DFW at any time. But you wouldn't know that because you're not from here.

Fewer commercials doesn't mean cheaper. Depends on how you price it. Consumers don't want more stations. They want more relevant stations. And they do pay for those stations with their precious time that they choose to invest every morning, afternoon and/or evening.

Am I mad at you? Nah. I'm just throwing my two cents out there. As my pal, Paul Harvey would say, "Good Day."

 

[Triple Fake Jerry]

The Big A is obviously not a Big P1.

Who says listeners aren't emotionally involved with a station? It still happens, and in a big way.

 

[OHTBGH]

AND...Cumulus also owns KESN (ESPN) 103.3 !!!

No, they don't. It, 103.3 and Radio Disney were retained by ABC in the sell off to Citadel.

Yep. Radio Disney is basically a shill for the Disney properties. ESPN Radio is the same but gives you something worthwhile in return.

-BGH

 

[OHTBGH]

Competition. Or rather lack of it. Competition that comes from having more owners in the marketplace brings out the best (and sometimes the worst!) in people and in companies. Competition makes you want to be better than that other guy.

But my other point is that this ownership deregulation happened more than 15 years ago. When do you move on and deal with today? What happened in 1996 is done, and radio is not going back. So we all have to learn how to live with today's rules and today's competition. Radio has far bigger issues to fight with than another OTA competitor. They have millions of internet stations and hundreds of Sirius stations and millions of phone apps and on and on.

Millions of web stations? Uh...No. There were thousands of web stations at one time. Many of them hobbyists with their own stations out of their homes. Even non commercials and overseas stations to choose from.

But thanks to Mark Cuban, DMCA and that wonderful CARP, many stations were forced to go dark. And the overseas counterparts did the same to the UK and other countries as well. But they cut them a deal: Less payments if you BLOCK overseas listeners. Now you get IP blocked from other stations and music!

The RIAA and it's counterparts have now created an "Internet Curtain" between countries!

And we are not too far behind. Its costing stations so much to carry music over the web now that they too will have to IP block or find other ways to make payments.

And the CARP didn't even give a discount or special rules for non commercial. Alot of college stations could have flourished in the web.

Right now, the major corporate owners are the only ones able to afford the rates: For now.

-BGH

 

[OHTBGH]

And I honestly don't know where the next generation of DJs are coming to come from since they are no longer being groomed at night.

"Groomed at night?" I don't know what you're talking about. I did the overnight shift for a few months, and NO ONE was there to groom me for anything. The only reason I was there was because I was cheap and had a 3rd class FCC license. Now you don't need the license. But I don't know anyone who went from working overnights to a job in the daytime, unless they quit. That's what I did. Otherwise, I'd still be there. Nobody wanted to see the overnight guy get better and want a better shift. The overnight guy solved a problem, and as long as he could beathe, he'd stay in that shift.

For the past 20 years, people get groomed by working as part of a team. They're part of a Waking Crew or Morning Zoo, and live with the pressure of delivering ratings for a while. Then they take their act someplace else. Or they do traffic for a top show. You're not going to learn anything in the overnight, because no one is listening, including the boss. I've seen promotions people work their way on the air. The listeners know them from remotes. They build personality there. Then they fill in when one of the regulars is on vacation. But this romantic idea about doing overnights as a way to get groomed for an airshift is total mythology perpetuated by bosses who wanted to get people to do the graveyard shift. It was called that for a reason. You did it til you died.

Well...

I don't know what stations your worked for but I didn't have that problem.

I started working 12a-6a on weekends. Then I moved into mon-fri 7p-12am. I stayed there in that slot until I moved to a different station. I also did bits for the morning show as well.

I was groomed by a PD. And later it helped me get to where I am today.

I now have young radio people working for me fresh out of school and I groom them as well.

Even though I'm older and somewhat wiser, I've also had great mentors. I've learned alot about the business from friends like Jack Bishop, Bill McCormick, Charley Jones, Barry Hansen and others.

Also, you have to want to be groomed. I've worked with people that although the job was crap (and yes, midnight to six CAN be depressing!) they didn't speak up.

They end up leaving and then what do they do: Go to another station that is slightly better but still work a crap shift! Or worse, leave radio altogether!

I spoke up. I was handed additional duties (including PSA Director), did production other than copying commercials, wrote copy for commercials, ran the board for Cowboys and MNF games and even went out on sales calls to learn.

IMHO, grooming is a two way street. You have to have the drive. but as an old friend of mine always says, "A closed mouth DOES NOT get fed!"

If ya want to be groomed, always ask for a brush! ;D

-BGH

 

[OHTBGH]

One point on radio today: most major broadcasters are publically traded. The objective is paying dividends. While profit was always the objective and a requirement for success, private owners were more apt to put funds back into improvements and delay profits in hopes of greater profits later. Even with that said, I have to question if radio is not still the same: too little money to invest and an attitude of cheaper is better.

Group owners have been able to eliminate the duplication of duties. Instead of 5 fully staffed stations, now traffic for all 5 stations might be done by one person, the sales staff combined to offer combo buys, the production staff trimmed and jocks released for computer or voicetracking with one station with a human. Considering how so many stations had financial difficulties before 1996, I have to wonder if that too is unchanged today. Even the big boys don't seem to be swimming in cash.

Personally I think the big boys have done some good things for radio but have also helped radio to suffer at the same time. I'd say individual owners or small market owners owe much to the big boys as they pioneered ways to lower station operation expenses. On the other hand, I do not see on air innovation or quality as hallmarks of the big boys.

I have no problem with broadcasting as publicly traded companies.

Sadly, I've made more money TRADING them than working for them!

But with all this M&A going on, here is the real problem: DEBT SERVICE!

That's why Citadel went down the toilet! Buying up all of ABC Radio and putting them into debt. They usually take a cluster here or a cluster there. They should have recouped some from small and medium market sales. (At CC had the sense to dump some to Big Gap.)

But now your saddled with all this debt. And combine market forces with the mortgage meltdown, Auto companies filing BR (About 40% of station ad revenue gone!) and the credit spigot turned off!

That's a fatal blow.

Hopefully, Cumulus will not make the same mistakes. But now two companies have come together and created MORE debt service!

Only time will tell.

-BGH

 

[TheBigA]

IMHO, grooming is a two way street. You have to have the drive. but as an old friend of mine always says, "A closed mouth DOES NOT get fed!"

I agree. The PD of my first station was an alcoholic. Everyone knew it. So after a few months on the night shift, I left for far greener pastures. And I haven't looked back. They ended up dividing my overnight shift among 3 new kids.

Yes, you have to speak up, and volunteer for stuff. I have never turned down anything. At one point, I was working 7 days a week, more than 10 hours a day, for four different employers. Talk about putting in your 10,000 hours. I'm here to say it pays off.

 

[OHTBGH]

IMHO, grooming is a two way street. You have to have the drive. but as an old friend of mine always says, "A closed mouth DOES NOT get fed!"

I'm here to say it pays off.

Ditto.

-BGH

 

[TheBigA]

Hopefully, Cumulus will not make the same mistakes. But now two companies have come together and created MORE debt service!

I was a stockholder with Citadel before the ABC deal. I disagreed with the merger and sold out. Good move for me. However, the situation with Citadel and Cumulus is not comparable. The Cumulus debt is just fine, spread out among equity partners who all share in the risk. They actually have access to even more cash that allows them some breathing room, or a chance to buy more stuff.

Something happened between Farid and Forstmann that cost them the company. Forstmann could have bailed Citadel out, and didn't. That will make an interesting book some day.

 

[dakareedog]

And losing the overnights (and even any airshift after 10am in many, many "big" market outlets) has been only one of MANY aspects of programming that have been adversely affected by LACK OF COMPETITION at that (programming/personality) level.

Stations were VT-ing overnights in the 70s.

I would like to know what station (s) were V/Ting in the 70's. Please explain how this was done.