Good For Radio?

[dakareedog]

A

 

[TheBigA]

I would like to know what station (s) were V/Ting in the 70's. Please explain how this was done.

Pre-taping on reel to reel. Some would pre-tape their breaks, others would pre-tape entire shows in real time.

Then of course you had those stations carrying pre-taped automation formats from Bonneville, Schulke, and other format distributors. I don't have affiliate lists, but I recall Bonneville saying they had about 300 clients. Marlin Taylor ran that operation in Tenafly NJ.

 

[dakareedog]

I would like to know what station (s) were V/Ting in the 70's. Please explain how this was done.

Pre-taping on reel to reel. Some would pre-tape their breaks, others would pre-tape entire shows in real time.

Then of course you had those stations carrying pre-taped automation formats from Bonneville, Schulke, and other format distributors. I don't have affiliate lists, but I recall Bonneville saying they had about 300 clients. Marlin Taylor ran that operation in Tenafly NJ.
[/q

So, some "body" still had to be there to Q the tape and play the records OR it was automated.

 

[TheBigA]

So, some "body" still had to be there to Q the tape and play the records OR it was automated.

Depends. But there's usually a "body" in the building today too.

We're talking about 40 years ago. This was pre-computer. Automation was triggered by sub-audible tones or cue tape. Then again, back then actual people sewed the clothes you wear. Today it's all done by machine. Or in another country.

 

[Kent]

I was a stockholder with Citadel before the ABC deal. I disagreed with the merger and sold out. Good move for me. However, the situation with Citadel and Cumulus is not comparable. The Cumulus debt is just fine, spread out among equity partners who all share in the risk. They actually have access to even more cash that allows them some breathing room, or a chance to buy more stuff.

As a general rule, Cumulus doesn't make purchases with very much cash. Most of their deals allow them to pay the vast majority of the cost with stock at their option.

 

[dfaulkner]

That will be interesting to find out. Maybe voicetracking isn't what the poster meant. A number of FM's were automated in the 70's. But, I think, voicetracking is more recent technology.

 

[TheBigA]

A number of FM's were automated in the 70's. But, I think, voicetracking is more recent technology.

The method is new. The purpose is the same. They didn't have computers in the 70s. But a lot of stations didn't want to pay DJs either.

 

[davideduardo]

A number of FM's were automated in the 70's. But, I think, voicetracking is more recent technology.

The method is new. The purpose is the same. They didn't have computers in the 70s. But a lot of stations didn't want to pay DJs either.

For those not around in the 70's, here is one way voice tracks were done...

A cart, often with multiple cuts, was recorded with intros to all the currents that required them. Often the secondary tone on the cart was set to roll the song under the intro according to how long it was. The automation played (in some systems) a linked element of the intro cart and the song cart.

Then the backsells before commercials and the IDs if given live were put on carts, and they included the proper content for the hour and day.

Finally, contests and liners were put on carts. Cuts might be recorded for a board op to put contest winners into a prerecord to put them on the air.

Mid-70's automation could do that. A bit later, systems like Harris' System 9000 could even handle music rotations and such.

Instead of playing off a computer, the tracks were played off carts.

At my first job, where it was discovered I had no future as a jock, I ran a personality jazz show. The PD "tracked" the show by pulling all the albums and doing an intro for each cut on reel to reel, and we certainly referred to the the reel as the "voice track" or "the voicers" and said that the show was "tracked." That takes voice tracking back about 50 years or so. The technology is simpler, but the result is the same.

 

[TheBigA]

Even things you might consider live elements, weather forecasts, traffic reports, and news updates were often pre-recorded on carts so they could work in the system.

 

[davideduardo]

We're talking about 40 years ago. This was pre-computer. Automation was triggered by sub-audible tones or cue tape. Then again, back then actual people sewed the clothes you wear. Today it's all done by machine. Or in another country.

Computer controlled automation came about in the early mid-70's using Intel's 8008, which was introduced in 1972. The automation controllers using these cpu's could also store up to 10,000 events which could be loaded from a cassette, too. They allowed time updates, jump to instructions, skip if not played instructions, as well as obeying cue tones.

One example was the Harris System 90, of which I had s/n 0001 in 1975. It could be set and left alone for a full day with no operator if the decks did not eat the reels and the carrousels did not jam or eat the carts alive and the time checker did not get off. About the only thing done was change reels for the oldies or insert a different weather cart (we had one for every possible temperature with "raining" "chance of rain" and "clear" for a total of about 50 carts and that did it outside of hurricane season).

 

[davideduardo]

I would like to know what station (s) were V/Ting in the 70's. Please explain how this was done.

Probably more than half the commercial FMs in the 70's were what we now call voice tracked. From Drake Chenault's Hit Parade (started in the late 60's) to Shulke's SRP to the clients of Bonneville, Churchill, KalaMusic, RPM, Bonneville, IGM, Peters, FM 100, TM and others there were several thousand stations using prerecorded formats with voice tracking (a few Bonneville and Shulke stations were actually live).

 

[dfaulkner]

That was interesting. Thanks for the info.

 

[Bob E. Nelson]

Probably more than half the commercial FMs in the 70's were what we now call voice tracked.

Wasn't ABC's "Love", with Brother John, also voice tracked in the late 60's and early 70's? I'm pretty sure KQV-FM (later WDVE) had a reel-to-reel automation system visible in their showcase studios for what was then the FM stepchild.

 

[TexasTom]

That will be interesting to find out. Maybe voicetracking isn't what the poster meant. A number of FM's were automated in the 70's. But, I think, voicetracking is more recent technology.

I can give a few examples of voice tracked stations from the late seventies -- but it's all up in the Pacific Northwest, since that's where I grew up.

The most sophisticated voice tracking system that I heard was on KYYX (96.5) in Seattle, whose DJs precorded shifts that were accurately (well, most of the time) synchronized to the music, so that the DJ could come out of a set and back announce what all had just played, and talk about what was coming up. While voice tracked, the DJs were local.

A slightly less elaborate version was in use on KLYK(?) (106.5) in the Longview/Kelso area -- the current music was synchronized with the DJ chatter, so that the DJs could talk about the current music that they were playing, but not the oldies.

In Tacoma, KNBQ (97.3) was also automated for several years. They started with a syndicated service that included pre-recorded back announcing of the songs they played, which tended to sound very automated. But they eventually ditched those and went with local DJs who were obviously prerecorded. Their automation system apparently lacked the sophistication to match the voice tracks to particular songs being played, so the DJ chatter would never be about the music that the station played during this period. Eventually, they did go fully live and local and ditched the voice tracking system completely.

Then there were the syndicated services that included voice tracked back announcing of music. The version of this that I heard the most was TM Stereo Rock (produced in Dallas, syndicated nationally), which I heard via KNWR (104.3) Bellingham and KHQ-FM Spokane (98.1). These were the stations that played contemporary music formats and back announced all their current music in a very formal sounding manner (ie, "That's Queen with 'Another One Bites The Dust'; before that, you heard Barbara Streisand with 'Woman in Love'" -- and, yes, the music really did cover that wide of a range). A different company (I have no idea who) provided a similar kind of automated top 40 format to Yakima's KFFM (107.3). Similar stations existed across the country, usually in small or medium markets.

 

[Jay Walker]

To continue David E's story about automation.
Back around 1975 I worked an AM that ran the SMC (Sonomag Corporation) automation system. We didn't like how "loose" it ran with the reel to reel decks so we swapped all of the reel to reel decks with Cart Carousels. The system ended up with nine cart Carousels holding spots, jingles, and the library.

Each Carousel had 24 slots for carts. We loaded currents with the jock intro recorded on each cut with up to three different variations recorded on a 10.5 minute cart. That way each intro on the currents would have a different rap to rotate. Generic Backsells were dry voiced on another 10.5 minute cart. Other variations were backsells recorded 3 different ways on a current that rotated on a 10.5 minute cart. Add in various Carousels for recurrents, gold and you had a pretty tight sounding automation system.

The major flaw was the limited CORE memory available which was 2047 events for 24 hours. The other flaw was when the FM op would forget to change out ALL the voiced carts. When that happened you had two different talents on the air... Still remember the log sequence, and flag codes to this day. Talk about repetitive work...

 

[OHTBGH]

Hopefully, Cumulus will not make the same mistakes. But now two companies have come together and created MORE debt service!

I was a stockholder with Citadel before the ABC deal. I disagreed with the merger and sold out. Good move for me. However, the situation with Citadel and Cumulus is not comparable. The Cumulus debt is just fine, spread out among equity partners who all share in the risk. They actually have access to even more cash that allows them some breathing room, or a chance to buy more stuff.

Something happened between Farid and Forstmann that cost them the company. Forstmann could have bailed Citadel out, and didn't. That will make an interesting book some day.

I disagree.

These deals are getting to be like banks. Bank buys a smaller bank. Then that bank is bought by another bank. Like fish eating each other.

They may have cash now. But all it takes is a tremor in market forces and credit is screwed and people will park the cash.

And something did happen with Suleman: He got greedy!

He did a deal that only benefited himself. And even tried to block sales to keep his position.

bigger conglomerate and more debt service. And if they don't retire it ASAP, they too can be left in a lurch. And that's alot of Gyro's.

-BGH

 

[OHTBGH]

A number of FM's were automated in the 70's. But, I think, voicetracking is more recent technology.

The method is new. The purpose is the same. They didn't have computers in the 70s. But a lot of stations didn't want to pay DJs either.

For those not around in the 70's, here is one way voice tracks were done...

A cart, often with multiple cuts, was recorded with intros to all the currents that required them. Often the secondary tone on the cart was set to roll the song under the intro according to how long it was. The automation played (in some systems) a linked element of the intro cart and the song cart.

Then the backsells before commercials and the IDs if given live were put on carts, and they included the proper content for the hour and day.

Finally, contests and liners were put on carts. Cuts might be recorded for a board op to put contest winners into a prerecord to put them on the air.

Mid-70's automation could do that. A bit later, systems like Harris' System 9000 could even handle music rotations and such.

Instead of playing off a computer, the tracks were played off carts.

At my first job, where it was discovered I had no future as a jock, I ran a personality jazz show. The PD "tracked" the show by pulling all the albums and doing an intro for each cut on reel to reel, and we certainly referred to the the reel as the "voice track" or "the voicers" and said that the show was "tracked." That takes voice tracking back about 50 years or so. The technology is simpler, but the result is the same.

Also apart of the "Jock In The Box" systems of the 1980's. Used carts and tones to do ID and Spots with satellite from above.

-BGH

 

[TheBigA]

They may have cash now. But all it takes is a tremor in market forces and credit is screwed and people will park the cash.

It sounds like you don't watch the market. It's been unstable all year. Banks aren't lending right now. But this is a well-constructed deal that combines equity and debt in a way that won't overburden any one part.

He did a deal that only benefited himself. And even tried to block sales to keep his position.

That was after the bankruptcy. You don't appear to know who his main investors were.

 

[jondavidvox]

Successful Radio, like all else in the Universe, is a careful balance.

The internal arts of Product, Sales, and Management, are honed and progress through the external circumstances of Competition, Opportunity, and Market Pressures.

When that balance is disturbed, the Industry suffers....All of us have seen the various permutations of these factors, and have either profited, or suffered because of them.

The single-minded pursuit of (unsustainable) profit focuses Radio's effort on Sales, and Cost Cutting...Harming Product. No local Personalities...Cookie-Cutter On-Air Product.

The single-minded pursuit of higher ratings focuses Radio's effort on Product...Harming profitability, and efficiency. An over-investment on increasingly less-effective promotional tricks, and over dependence on irreplaceable personalities.

The single-minded pursuit of Management self-enrichment focuses Radio's effort away from its purpose....Harming everything. Need I explain further?

In short, Radio is a combination of the Arts, Sciences, and Business....When any of those parts are over-emphasized, the sum suffers. Like now...

J-D
TWR

 

[TheBigA]

In short, Radio is a combination of the Arts, Sciences, and Business....When any of those parts are over-emphasized, the sum suffers. Like now...

Funny...I just finished a post on another board about the need for continued taxpayer support for public broadcasting. My point was that commercial broadcasting is too much about profit. Not enough about service. That's what public broadcasting was created to correct. But a lot of the same people who object to corporate control of the media also object to taxpayer support of public broadcasting. The money has to come from some place. And if it can't come from investors, stockholders, and corporations, it falls on the people. And the only fair way to assess every citizen is the federal tax. That's the real world. Which system do you prefer: Corporate or taxpayer supported? That's the choice. We have it now. That choice could go away because some people want to eliminate taxpayer funding for public broadcasting. If that went away, you know the alternative. If you truely believe in what you say, everyone should be in favor of continued support of public broadcasting.