Good Heavens, What Happened To G-Rock?

[hubcity]

Here's the most recent hour-and-change:

3:45pm Fall Out Boy Thanks For The Memories
3:41pm Smashing Pumpkins Rocket
3:36pm Foo Fighters Monkey Wrench
3:29pm Cult Lil' Devil
3:25pm Mutemath Typical
3:21pm Hot Hot Heat Bandages
3:13pm Beck Sexx Laws
3:09pm Velvet Revolver Fall To Pieces
3:06pm The Raconteurs Level
3:02pm Alice In Chains Angry Chair
2:58pm Linkin Park What I've Done
2:55pm My Chemical Romance I'm Not Okay (I Promise)
2:47pm Incubus Oil & Water
2:42pm Dave Matthews Band Too Much
2:38pm Green Day Longview
2:30pm Smithereens Blood And Roses
2:26pm Silverchair Straight Lines
2:22pm Nine Inch Nails Only

What *happened*?

 

[Beejus]

Here's the most recent hour-and-change:

3:45pm Fall Out Boy Thanks For The Memories
3:41pm Smashing Pumpkins Rocket
3:36pm Foo Fighters Monkey Wrench
3:29pm Cult Lil' Devil
3:25pm Mutemath Typical
3:21pm Hot Hot Heat Bandages
3:13pm Beck Sexx Laws
3:09pm Velvet Revolver Fall To Pieces
3:06pm The Raconteurs Level
3:02pm Alice In Chains Angry Chair
2:58pm Linkin Park What I've Done
2:55pm My Chemical Romance I'm Not Okay (I Promise)
2:47pm Incubus Oil & Water
2:42pm Dave Matthews Band Too Much
2:38pm Green Day Longview
2:30pm Smithereens Blood And Roses
2:26pm Silverchair Straight Lines
2:22pm Nine Inch Nails Only

What *happened*?

I don't quite get what you're getting at. Personally, out of that list... the only song I don't like is the Cult song... but that's my personal preference.

 

[SoulCrusher]

I also am not sure what Sean is driving at, but let's turn over a new leaf and remain objective. Breaking it down and keeping it short and simple...

We could do with less Fall Out Boy and Velvet Revolver. They don't mix in well with the retro Alternative direction the station seems to be leaning in.

Incubus, Green Day, Linkin Park, Foo Fighters and MCR are all played way too much. You can't tell me that these acts don't have a high Burn factor by now. The first four I'm sure get played once every three hours or more. Meanwhile, I could shoot off a list of all the acts they don't play at all... but I won't.

Dave Matthews Band, Counting Crows, and new Silverchair are all more Adult Alternative, and I know the first two receive plenty of airtime.

Thumbs up: NIN, Smithereens, Alice In Chains, Raconteurs, Beck, Hot Hot Heat, Mutemath, The Cult (though Lil' Devil is a lesser song from them, IMO) Smashing Pumpkins.

Summary: G Rock can improve by playing less simple pop/punk and mainstream arena rock, and more currents and British rock. There's a lot of stuff that I can't believe they're not playing yet - The Used, Brand New, Arctic Monkeys, The Automatic Automatic, and the new singles from The Fratellis, The Shins, and Silversun Pickups among others. Meanwhile we're still seeing heavy rotation for older singles by Silversun Pickups, Incubus, Modest Mouse, The Killers, Muse, and a Pete Yorn song that's nearly a year old! Even the most devout G Rock fanatics must believe there is some room for improvement.

P.S.: Now they are playing Pearl Jam's "Alive". AGAIN. Is there a person who isn't sick and tired of this song? I don't know how many times they have played it in the last week, but I hear it all the time and don't even listen that much.

 

[mondoradio]

I think that Sean is remarking on the diversity of the playlist...i think. It's defenitely a more diverse playlist than in years gone by. Good for us hard-core listener types...we'll see how it affects ratings.

but I hear it all the time and don't even listen that much.

You had me right up until then SC. You listen, and you listen ALOT. G Rock can only hope in it's wildest dreams that you get a diary on your doorstep. As far as "Alive" goes, it's a familiar tune to bridge the gap in an increasingly less familiar playlist. They need that song and the others you are tired of to balance things out.

 

[SDRMATT]

fyi ladies and gents we always have the last 106 songs posted on our website!


Matt Murray

 

[Beejus]

Here goes SoulCrusher's GRock Suggestion Thread 3.0:

keeping it short and simple...

Ummm. I'll leave that be. Moving on...

We could do with less Fall Out Boy and Velvet Revolver. They don't mix in well with the retro Alternative direction the station seems to be leaning in.

Speaking for everyone again? YOU could do with less Fall Out Boy and Velvet Revolver. Thnks Fr Th Mmrs is a catchy as hell song, and personally, I don't like a lot of Velvet Revolver, but I'm digging the new one.

Incubus, Green Day, Linkin Park, Foo Fighters and MCR are all played way too much. You can't tell me that these acts don't have a high Burn factor by now. The first four I'm sure get played once every three hours or more.

Incubus, Green Day, Linkin Park, Foo Fighters, and now, even My Chemical Romance are staples of the Alternative format. They are songs people know and love. Burnout? Probably not nearly as much as you think. Everyone is going to be tired of one song or another. I personally cannot stand RHCP's "Give it Away." That doesn't mean GRock should stop playing it. It's a staple, it's a song people love, it'll be played.

Meanwhile, I could shoot off a list of all the acts they don't play at all... but I won't.

Sure. Elvis. Tanya Tucker. Heavy D & the Boyz. Ini Kamoze. Justin Timberlake. Frank Sinatra. Patti LaBelle. Bee Gees. La Bouche. There's part of the list of artists they don't play.

Dave Matthews Band, Counting Crows, and new Silverchair are all more Adult Alternative, and I know the first two receive plenty of airtime.

As formats evolve over time, and as audiences grow up and shift, sure, DMB, and Counting Crows filtered into Hot AC radio. They are staples of Modern Rock as well. No harm in playing them.

P.S.: Now they are playing Pearl Jam's "Alive". AGAIN. Is there a person who isn't sick and tired of this song? I don't know how many times they have played it in the last week, but I hear it all the time and don't even listen that much.

Alive has spun 4 times this week, 7 times over 14 days. That's once every other day. Either you ALWAYS tune in at the perfect time, or you continue to exaggerate to prove your point.

As a Philadelphian who listened to both WDRE and Y100, "Alive" holds a special place in my heart. Whenever I hear that song (even on my own current station) it brings back memories. For the rest of the listening audience. Again. It's an Alternative staple. Why stop playing stuff people know just to play unknown artists? Cume and TSL go bye-bye... ratings plummet, advertisers go away, station flips format. While you bitch about GRock now, I'm sure you'd bitch more if GRock disappeared.

 

[I WORK IN RADIO]

quote author=Beejus link=topic=76081.msg555407#msg555407 date=1184331705]
Why stop playing stuff people know just to play unknown artists? Cume and TSL go bye-bye... ratings plummet, advertisers go away, station flips format. While you bitch about GRock now, I'm sure you'd bitch more if GRock disappeared.
[/quote]

**my first time trying to use a "quote"**

Sums up EVERYTHING SC is saying. THIS should end any argument that you have SC. It's called radio knowledge and it's being told in the best manner. Short and simple. It was great reading these threads, now lets talk about President... I mean KING BUSH.

 

[hubcity]

Whenever I hear that song (even on my own current station) it brings back memories. For the rest of the listening audience. Again.

And if there's anything Alternative should be about, it's the memories.

 

[SoulCrusher]

There's nothing wrong with playing familiar songs. The only problem with G Rock is that they play too many of them and wind up with a sound that's far too safe. The mix, as stated earler, is far more interesting than K-Rock and Radio 104.5 (which could be considered competition in the northern and southern areas that G Rock covers, respectively), but that isn't saying much at all - the residents of NYC and Philly who turned them on for an hour probably went right back to their CD collections or iPods.

Let's estimate that G Rock plays 12 songs an hour. I would be willing to bet that 85% or more of their listeners would be "very familiar" with 10 songs in the set. G Rock can afford to dig a little deeper to keep from sounding stale. I'm not expecting depth on the levels of Indie or Real Radio 104.1, but if these big market stations can throw out all these surprises (The Charlatans, Oingo Boingo, Bloc Party, Kings Of Leon, The The, Killing Joke - when was the last time you heard any of them and it wasn't a special feature? Or how about songs from James and The Verve besides the "one" hit?), I don't see what's keeping G Rock from doing the same more than maybe once an hour or so (if we're lucky). Having FM 106.3 for so many years means that many remember a lot of these songs fondly.

Finally, on new music: The jocks do an excellent job of selling all of the "Currents" on G Rock's playlist. That, along with more prolonged airplay for "Currents" than most other stations (By my estimate, G Rock has at least 10 songs that are at least 6 months old still in "Current" rotation), leads to very high familiarity among the listeners. Nothing wrong with that. Many of the "Currents" that G Rock continues to slam have long fallen off the charts (The Killers' "Read My Mind", Pete Yorn's "For Us", etc.) or have just received heavy rotation for way too long (Muse's "Starlight", Silversun Pickups' "Lazy Eye"). You can't tell me that a good chunk of G Rock's audience are not tired of these songs by now. No song is that good that it can withstand all of this incessant airplay. Solution: Play more Currents, or cycle the older ones out faster. Nothing is sacred if you're playing Puddle Of Mudd and Velvet Revolver (both closer to straight-ahead Rock than Alternative), so nothing should be off limits as long as it's going for adds at Alternative. Play some British rock, some post-punk, harder rock, Killswitch Engage - anything. The area of Currents can use some help, and that's the bottom line.

 

[raydofan]

Whenever I hear that song (even on my own current station) it brings back memories. For the rest of the listening audience. Again.

And if there's anything Alternative should be about, it's the memories.

I think smaller and smaller loops of nostalgic behaviour is a given for radio, but when you pick some Zeppelinesque arena rock band as a recurrent, that's just a focused form of nihilism. That is why TSL amoung reg'lur folks is down, along with other factors. Bor-ring.

Personally, I would be happy if one alt station played Rachid Taha once.

 

[SoulCrusher]

In the past, I may have made fun of:

Fall Out Boy: Slick overproduced pop similar to Simple Plan,`one-dimensional lyrics, corporate whores who have more sponsorships than Jay Leno has cars, bass player dating lip-syncing manufactured pop tart Ashlee Simpson.

Plain White T's: Many similarities to FOB, use of songs on cheesy teen soaps, recently performed at Ocean County Mall (with pro wrestler Hulk Hogan's talent-impaired daughter Brooke), will be playing theme parks, the sappiest song I've heard since "My Heart Will Go On".

Puddle Of Mudd: Incredibly generic Creed-by-way-of-Warrant sound, incredibly moronic lyrics (see "She Hates Me" and "Control"), cheesy power ballads ("Blurry"), nothing Alternative about them - just run of the mill mainstream rock.

Velvet Revolver: Much closer in sound to GN'R than STP, cornball lyrics, lack of originality, shilling for corporations, extremely painful power ballads ("Fall To Pieces").

Evanescence: Generic, overproduced, dependence on Pro Tools, cliched lyrics and a sound closer to '80s Heart than any goth band (tell me "My Immortal" doesn't remind you at least a little of "These Dreams"). Amy Lee was also part of one of the cheesiest, most melodramatic songs of the decade (Seether's "Broken", which G Rock is playing as I type this).

Dispensing with any somewhat offensive genre tags I've given these bands, this is what I hear when these bands play.

But this is not G Rock's weakness. I can live with all of these bands seeing airtime on the station. What's wrong, you ask? Plain and simple, first and foremost - it's the Currents. I can't make much in the way of complaints about the library of songs that are playing, as it's easily the most diverse it's been since Press took over. But to be playing only 40 Currents (many of them actually Recurrents) is just disappointing. The only fault I find with the aforementioned acts in the rotation is that they don't mesh well with the retro tracks - those who like the first two acts are more inclined to listen to a Top 40 station, and those who like the last two probably find AORs like WRAT and WDHA to be better suited to them. If G Rock has to limit themselves so much, there are acts they could be playing that would fit in better.

For instance, there's some bands that G Rock once played but are now being inexplicably ignored. What's the problem with Kings Of Leon? So they're good enough to give away concert tickets (listed on their webpage a couple of months ago) but they're not good enough to play? How about Bloc Party? Anyone who likes the '80s post-punk sound should love these guys. Editors are another good band with a new album coming out that aren't getting airtime Then there's Saosin, who are far closer to the roots of emo than Tiger Beat cover stars Fall Out Boy. Yes, they're no Rites Of Spring or Jawbreaker, but they're the best we have these days. Long Island's Brand New, who might have a fairly mellow sound now but the lyrics are strong and powerful, would be another good addition.

There's also some older bands that would be nice to hear sometimes on G Rock. There's underplayed bands, like G. Love & Special Sauce, James, Blur, The Verve, Bloodhound Gang (they would bring a much needed element of humor to G Rock), Sonic Youth, Primus, System Of A Down, Morrissey / The Smiths (as predicted, less airtime now that the concert dates have passed - in this case they were cancelled), even Radiohead seems to be underappreciated, being well overshadowed by Coldplay in terms of spins at the station. Then there are bands that aren't played at all. Aside from Cracker and the occasional Smithereens song, you don't hear many of the acts at the concert series at Jenkinson's unless it's on the Retro Request Hour (Psychedelic Furs, The Fixx, The Alarm, English Beat, etc.). You also never hear The Charlatans UK, Robyn Hitchcock & The Egyptians, Sisters Of Mercy, Morphine, Ben Folds Five, Jim Carroll Band (you have to throw on "People Who Died" every so often), and there's several other notable omissions that I don't have time to include now.

Long story short: The problem with G Rock is not what they play, it's what they don't play.

 

[SoulCrusher]

For those keeping score: G Rock has one (that's right, only one) new add this week, and it was dull arena rockers Velvet Revolver with their latest single "The Last Fight". No disrespect intended at all to G Rock personnel, but just because you like Velvet Revolver and their third rate Guns N' Roses retread sound doesn't mean the audience does, and the very poor performance of the heavily hyped previous single proves it.

Not only is the list of Currents extremely timid, but there are so many acts with multiple songs on it, so the list of bands they are playing is even smaller than the list of songs. The following groups have two or more songs on the list of Currents: Incubus, Linkin Park, Modest Mouse, Muse, and Velvet Revolver. It also bears mentioning that Incubus, The Killers, Foo Fighters and Linkin Park all have about 4 or 5 songs each among the Most Played tracks at G Rock. Would it kill you guys to play something different?

And that message took a grand total of 4 minutes for me to type.

 

[sack]

Nobody is keeping score.

Dull is YOUR OPINION of Velvet Revolver. only yours. If you don't like it.........

I don't mind hearing multiple tracks from one bans current offering, its nice to know bands can do more than one or 2 singles.

And I'm sure everyone is very impressed at your typing speed.

If you have so many problems with this station WHY DO YOU LISTEN?????????

 

[hubcity]

Nobody is keeping score.

Dull is YOUR OPINION of Velvet Revolver. only yours. If you don't like it.........

I don't mind hearing multiple tracks from one bans current offering, its nice to know bands can do more than one or 2 singles.

And I'm sure everyone is very impressed at your typing speed.

If you have so many problems with this station WHY DO YOU LISTEN?????????

For those keeping score:

- One point made regarding personal taste
- One defense of the band SoulCrusher slagged (which is, ironically, also an expression of personal taste)
- One jab at posing often
- One jab at the right to comment at all.

Pretty content-free, I'd say. Perhaps SoulCrusher's central point - deftly dodged by everyone who seems to ALWAYS respond to him with excruciating detail on how the latest band he's slagged is SOOOO popular - is that for a station that calls themselves "alternative", G-Rock is only tepidly so. (And, sadly, getting more tepid by the week.) They're slowly turning back into a station that nobody will miss when they're gone.

That said, it's the summer. Not a lot to add. What can ya do?

 

[hubcity]

Nobody is keeping score.

Dull is YOUR OPINION of Velvet Revolver. only yours. If you don't like it.........

I don't mind hearing multiple tracks from one bans current offering, its nice to know bands can do more than one or 2 singles.

And I'm sure everyone is very impressed at your typing speed.

If you have so many problems with this station WHY DO YOU LISTEN?????????

For those keeping score:

- One point made regarding personal taste
- One defense of the band SoulCrusher slagged (which is, ironically, also an expression of personal taste)
- One jab at posting often
- One jab at the right to comment at all.

Pretty content-free, I'd say. Perhaps SoulCrusher's central point - deftly dodged by everyone who seems to ALWAYS respond to him with excruciating detail on how the latest band he's slagged is SOOOO popular - is that for a station that calls themselves "alternative", G-Rock is only tepidly so. (And, sadly, getting more tepid by the week.) They're slowly turning back into a station that nobody will miss when they're gone.

That said, it's the summer. Not a lot to add. What can ya do?

 

[mondoradio]

Perhaps SoulCrusher's central point - deftly dodged by everyone who seems to ALWAYS respond to him with excruciating detail on how the latest band he's slagged is SOOOO popular - is that for a station that calls themselves "alternative", G-Rock is only tepidly so.

G Rock's goal, the goal of Press Communications, and the goal of every owner, manager, and programmer of an "Alternative" format commercial radio station is not to see how Alternative they can be, it's to GET RATINGS. When trying to get ratings, it's generally a good idea to at least play some popular music. I commented after your thread starting post Sean, that you must have been commenting on the diversity of the playlist, but it appears you were thinking otherwise. That list you posted is a very diverse playlist for a commercial station who's goal is to get ratings and make money. Being the most "Alternative" has nothing to do with it, nor should it in a commercial setting.

 

[I WORK IN RADIO]

That's a GREAT point. It's not to be B SIDE radio. It's to make money while having your own image/sound. Which is why I'm so baffled that, being the ONLY outlet for new alternative, that they refuse to play as many currents that they are skipping on.

I don't care that they play too much VR or POM or FOB or any of that. But having 3 of their 7 power currents that are actually recurrents by this point. And no playing A LOT of new stuff by established artists is just confusing.

I am NOT saying this makes them a bad alt station. It just makes it a confusing alt station.




P.S. When responding to SoulCrusher. PLEASE don't end your post with a question. It just amps him up to respond with the same 3 paragraphs he's responded with over the past 2 years. Copy and Paste is real easy, so lets not instigate. Thanks readers.

 

[hubcity]

Perhaps SoulCrusher's central point - deftly dodged by everyone who seems to ALWAYS respond to him with excruciating detail on how the latest band he's slagged is SOOOO popular - is that for a station that calls themselves "alternative", G-Rock is only tepidly so.

G Rock's goal, the goal of Press Communications, and the goal of every owner, manager, and programmer of an "Alternative" format commercial radio station is not to see how Alternative they can be, it's to GET RATINGS. When trying to get ratings, it's generally a good idea to at least play some popular music. I commented after your thread starting post Sean, that you must have been commenting on the diversity of the playlist, but it appears you were thinking otherwise. That list you posted is a very diverse playlist for a commercial station who's goal is to get ratings and make money. Being the most "Alternative" has nothing to do with it, nor should it in a commercial setting.

I didn't call their goals into question. I'm calling their identity into question.

At no point did I suggest that they either forsake making money or adhere to a policy of "artistic purity".

But ya see, they call themselves "alternative", and they are not. While almost every song on that list had every right to be on the station, they're missing something, and that's a forward view. They can play all the Fall Out Boy they want to, but they're not even paying lip service to anything new, and I don't think they even know how.

Right now, they're cultivating an audience that's heard all this stuff before, and they're doing it by claiming to be as alternative as the next guy. Kind of a confusing branding message. Where does an audience go to hear something new? (And by "new", I mean showing growth from what's currently being played.)

I'll give you a parallel from the past. Back in the 60's, New York radio stations actually had moles in the record pressing plants that would allow the station to scoop the competition. They cultivated an audience that wanted to hear new music, because that audience trusted the station to bring it to them. G-Rock could be this - excited about new bands and new tracks - but they're less so now than they have been in the past.

Instead, I hear someone playing a new track and saying they don't like any of their other songs. (That's be Matt, specifically about the Yeah Yeah Yeahs. Way to get the kids excited.)

I'll grant you that G-Rock may not even consider it part of their charter...but that brings us back to my main complaint: what, then, does the word "alternative" mean when they use it to identify their station?

I can support pretty much anything in pursuit of ratings except a lie. If they stopped claiming to be "alternative", I'd no longer have an argument.

 

[mondoradio]

I can support pretty much anything in pursuit of ratings except a lie. If they stopped claiming to be "alternative", I'd no longer have an argument.

What are they lying about exactly? They are playing a lvery arge portion of what is popular at most other "Alternative" stations across the country. While the playlist is not identical to the Alt. top 30 chart at Mediabase/BDS, it is certainly the format that they are the closest to both with currents and gold tracks. What else would you call them? Active Rock...AAA?? Nope, they are Alternative, but not in the same way you think of alternative. They are Alternative in the 2007, "Alternative as commercial product" sense, not in the "we play everything the other guys don't" sense (although, being the only station in the market that plays most of the music they play, they are an Alternative to what's out there).

Sean, I understand your problem with the term Alternative, and how it doesn't mean what it should mean, or even what it meant in FM 106.3's heyday. Things have changed, and now Alternative is just another industry-accepted label for a product that is designed to get ratings and generate revenue. It's not any better, any cooler, or any more "outside the box" than any other format. It is what it is, and the sooner people stop wrestling with the symantics and just accept it for what it is, the more enjoyable the listening experience will be.

As far as the on-air imaging for the station goes (which is what I suspect you have the most problem with), what would you suggest they do instead of using Alternative?

 

[raydofan]

What WHTG is a 'victim' of is a) a movement in the line of what 'alt' is; and b) a victim of a cluster-holding broadcasting company wishing to 'cash in' on the old WHTG 'legacy'-or at least tickle the memory of people who remember 'FM 106.3'

It's a shame, really, that this company doesn't do what the old kooky owners couldn't do: marshall a decent sales team in the name of 'good music' consumed by mid-to-upper middle class people. Perhaps the ratings would be lower, but if the ears are really exclusive, wouldn't you want them (they said the same thing about Imus)?

My understanding is the station was always in dire straights (I knew some people who worked there). So, if I may be so bold as to draw a conclusion: for some reason, the station wasn't sold right.

The basic problem with 'alt' distinction is, IMHO, is that it hasn't been alt since '92 or so. (Modern Rock was always more apt-it allowed you to loosen the belt as a programmer-allowing for the bands that sound like Zeppelin to get in.) There was a time I could hear De La Soul and Digable Planets next to Sinead or the Smithereens and PiL and Fishbone and...not sure what the TSL was for HTG back then, but I liked the mixture. And these acts toured, and there was more often than not, there was connection with the radio station. They introduced a lot of music too-like the Smiths.

So, looking at the above list: It is probably a little fragmented, yes. So now the prevailing logic is to stick with the tried and true, and to not take chances. It is not the HTG of old, that's for sure. Now, they play a lot of crap everyone else plays under that same alt banner, a paucity of recurrents already rubbed into the ground, and perform interviews with all the naturality of an infomercial. And oh yeah, they are better produced...

You can sell a niche of good and great music, great recurrents, and make money. Maybe not as much as Mass Appeal Alt, but so what? I would love to turn on commercial radio and hear its soul restored.

Radio, now more than ever, needs to take chances. Break some unknown, fer chissakes! Make me go searching of that CD or website. There is nothing on that list I need or want. What happened?

(By the way-Blood and Roses is a good recurrent-Beauty and Sadness is better IMHO. Sexxlaws? Are you kidding? Just stick with Odelay.)