Good News For Many of the Area's Country Music Fans

[mrbrightside]

'FAS also has strong competition from the very powerful and successful WHUD 100.7.
According to radio site FMQB, WFAS just got a new PD, who was previously at sister A/C station WEBE. So apparently 'FAS will remain A/C, at least for now.
If Cumulus goes ahead and moves its stick to the Bronx, country would seem to be a possibility. As I had posted earlier, Cumulus operates many country stations, and has made some flips to its Great Country format.
Another hole in the market may be smooth jazz. The format has been making a comeback in various markets, as large as Chicago, on stations that run less power than the competition. SJ may make sense for a relatively low power station broadcasting out of northern New York City.

Another hole, would be, um, rock made anytime after 1990. ;D

 

[NJMark]

WPUR, Cat Country from out in Pennsylvania, managed to get .6.

WPUR is Cat Country 107.3 from Atlantic City.

 

[Barry]

Another hole, would be, um, rock made anytime after 1990. ;D

Yes, that too. Perhaps Cumulus would consider a format for 'FAS similar to their long-running modern rock station in Middletown NY, WRRV.

 

[WNTIRadio]

WFAS doesn't target NYC though, so I doubt they would have many listeners in the city anyway if they simulcasted the KICKS format

If they moved to the CP transmitter site in the Bronx, then the whole target shifts.

I still don't understand why they're waiting so long to fire that up. The value of the stick goes up by a lot when that happens. They can still cover southern Westchester from there. WVIP gets out great from there.

 

[Jeffrey]

Here is an indication of how well well country music is doing in the area. The Nov.- January ratings just came out for NJ's Monmouth-Ocean market.
Thunder Country was #4, with a 4.9 overall. It was the highest rated music station, as the top 3 on the list were talk and sports oriented. Thunder's ratings have been growing steadily since last Spring, when they were at 3.3.
WPUR, Cat Country from out in Pennsylvania, managed to get .6.

Monmouth-Ocean: http://www.radio-info.com/markets/m...gn=ab9232c6cf-TRI_02-28-2012&utm_medium=email

The demographics of Monmouth-Ocean Counties in NJ are slightly less ethnic to Westchester County in NY and also have less ties to the city itself so it stands to reason country would do well there. The white population in Westchester is also very affluent and of a certain stereotypical class not likely to embrace a country format. That said, as pointed out earlier, WFAF, 106.3 has nothing to lose by simulcasting Kicks 105.5 as it's not making any money as a WFAS A/C simulcast anyway although it's not likely to do any better as country.
I could see SJ doing well on WFAF as I once read that it does well among wealthy whites. Not sure if there's any validity to that though.

Long Island's country station WJVC isn't doing quite as well on the other hand with a 1.8 although it has increased slightly over it's Dec. numbers. Until last Dec., WJVC was in a steady decline over last year. We'll see what happens over the summer.

I would think central NJ might be the best place to program a country station in this market. Demographics are ripe for it and there is no local country station.

Other than that, if it were my money I wouldn't risk the loss considering the constant failure of the format in and around the city.

 

[luperm]

Smooth Jazz? Not a chance.

That format was tried on 106.3 and it was a dog. IIRC, it was local in AM drive, and sat fed the rest of the day. Remember WZZN? Smooth Jazz does not do well in the sales demos.

Country is actually a good fit. The area is already saturated with AC and classic rock, so it's a good way to do something a little different. Country can bill well, and the 105.5/106.3 signals compliment each other to a large degree (yes, there's some overlap). The 106.3 signal just isn't beefy enough to be a stand-alone. I think they'll do well with it.

 

[WNTIRadio]

I wouldn't say the format failed in NYC, here's why:

WYNY was not a failure. New ownership (Evergreen, at the time) wanted to do something else. It was billing okay and in the mid 3's ratings wise. Of course, we all know what happened with KTU. The market did not have clusters at that time, since the 1996 bill had just gone into effect. So the landscape was much different radio wise. Owners weren't trying to not compete with themselves.

Y-107 failed because its parent company over expanded at the time when station values were at an all time high. Instead of focusing on the NYC burbs, they tried to go into LA and a couple other markets with the "ring around the city" approach. Had they stuck to just the 4 stations, I think Y-107 may have made it. The 2 main signals were Long Branch and Westchester, and the successes of those two stations now prove that. The other two were just fluff.

The last factor is that country then (1996) is not the same as country now. It's way more pop oriented than ever before. Much more mainstream. Look at "The Voice", there's a country singing judge on the panel and lots of country acts. That wouldn't have happened in 1996. Lady Antebellum, Carrie Underwood, Taylor Swift etc. are already on "regular" radio.

I don't see why an uptempo, more pop oriented country station couldn't make it in NYC. Leave the super "beer, America, guns" songs off the playlist. Give it a decent signal and watch the mid 3's roll in.

Cough -101.9- cough cough...

 

[WNTIRadio]

Sell WFME already. New York's wasted frequency!

And I would strongly argue that WBAI is much more of a wasted frequency.

 

[Jeffrey]

I wouldn't say the format failed in NYC, here's why:

WYNY was not a failure. New ownership (Evergreen, at the time) wanted to do something else. It was billing okay and in the mid 3's ratings wise. Of course, we all know what happened with KTU. The market did not have clusters at that time, since the 1996 bill had just gone into effect. So the landscape was much different radio wise. Owners weren't trying to not compete with themselves.

Y-107 failed because its parent company over expanded at the time when station values were at an all time high. Instead of focusing on the NYC burbs, they tried to go into LA and a couple other markets with the "ring around the city" approach. Had they stuck to just the 4 stations, I think Y-107 may have made it. The 2 main signals were Long Branch and Westchester, and the successes of those two stations now prove that. The other two were just fluff.

The last factor is that country then (1996) is not the same as country now. It's way more pop oriented than ever before. Much more mainstream. Look at "The Voice", there's a country singing judge on the panel and lots of country acts. That wouldn't have happened in 1996. Lady Antebellum, Carrie Underwood, Taylor Swift etc. are already on "regular" radio.

I don't see why an uptempo, more pop oriented country station couldn't make it in NYC. Leave the super "beer, America, guns" songs off the playlist. Give it a decent signal and watch the mid 3's roll in.

Cough -101.9- cough cough...

actually WYNY hovered in the 2's not mid 3's ever. Go back and look. I'm not going to go back over the thousands of facts already stated in the numerous threads about country in NY but while country is more mainstream now NY is also more ethnic.
NY has about as much in common with country music these days as does London and if you program a station with only the most pop oriented artists you won't have a very big play list. You can't have songs about women thinking tractors are sexy.
This is New York. Have you been here?

 

[Jeffrey]

Sell WFME already. New York's wasted frequency!

And I would strongly argue that WBAI is much more of a wasted frequency.

That's an opinion so I won't argue with you but I respectfully disagree.

 

[NJMark]

You can't have songs about women thinking tractors are sexy.
This is New York. Have you been here?

They have those songs in Boston, Philadelphia, Chicago, Detroit, Washington, Baltimore. Why not New York?

In fact, the singer of that particular song is going to be performing this summer at an 80,000 seat stadium a just a few minutes from ... New York.

Besides, in the media sense, "New York" covers a lot more real estate and a lot more people than mid-town Manhattan.

 

[Barry]

Yes, I believe you have to let country be country. Like any format, if it is watered down to little beyond the crossover hits, it can be boring to listen to for any significant length of time.
I find it interesting that Thunder Country, nearby on the Jersey shore, is going beyond the popular currents and playing songs and artists that most other country stations do not touch. They are breaking the commercial rule of sticking to the hits. And the audience apparently loves them. They are the #1 music station in the Monmouth Ocean market.
And Kicks 105.5, the station that is at the heart of this thread, plays older songs than the average contemporary country station, along with all the currents. And they are evidently doing well enough to have been given a second frequency.
So absolutely I do not see a problem including songs about tractors in the New York area. People that have a problem with that probably would not be listening to a country station to begin with.

 

[Jeffrey]

You can't have songs about women thinking tractors are sexy.
This is New York. Have you been here?

They have those songs in Boston, Philadelphia, Chicago, Detroit, Washington, Baltimore. Why not New York?

In fact, the singer of that particular song is going to be performing this summer at an 80,000 seat stadium a just a few minutes from ... New York.

Besides, in the media sense, "New York" covers a lot more real estate and a lot more people than mid-town Manhattan.

Demographics is why. You can't compare with the above mentioned cities.

Country singers can easily sell out in and around New York but with 20,000,000 people in the NYC metro area you can't program a radio station based on sell out concerts. Additionally out of market country stations near by advertise and give away tickets to country music concerts in NYC. Just look at WWYZ out of Hartford. Eros Ramazzotti sells out concerts in New York. Does that mean we should have a station with an all Italian format?

and yes...the metro area covers alot of land which is why I thought a country station may work in central NJ but a full city signal isn't really viable economically speaking.

 

[WNTIRadio]

This is New York. Have you been here?

Yes. I've lived right across the river my entire life. Worked at stations in and around the metro. Know it very well. Could drive a good portion of the 5 boroughs with my eyes closed.

But that "this is New York" mentality is EXACTLY why it is the most boring radio dial in the east. Instead of thinking outside the box and trying something new, the S.O.S. keeps getting done again and again.

As I said before, country music is quite different now than when WYNY signed off. Y-107 doesn't really count since there never was a solid signal. That was also 10+ years ago too. Country now is pop with a twang, more than ever before. It's not Hank Williams or the Oak Ridge Boys.

Riddle me this: Would you rather have a 2.8 that also hits very well in the key demos all around the city in the burbs (millions of people) on 101.9 or the whopping .6 they have now? I'll bet the country station with the 2.8 will bill a hell of a lot better than the also ran 3rd news station in the city.

FM News is like trying to open a new fast food joint in between McDonalds and Burger King, while serving the same menu just with not as good quality meat and fries. And RC Cola in the fountains. Good luck with that. Instead, how about trying an ice cream store instead?

Away from the analogy, it would be a hell of a lot cheaper of a format to execute on 101.9 than all news. Given the lack of traction that 101.9 has, what do they have to lose? It just may work. If it doesn't, then on to the next format. Sometimes you have to take a risk to make money and have success. Nobody knew if we could really make it to the moon until we got there. Nobody will know if country could work in NYC in 2012 (14 YEARS after it signed off) without trying it for real.

The best candidate for your NJ signal is WFME.

WBAI: 0.1 119,900 on a full B signal from Empire. That is a complete waste.

 

[bigtom101]

I don't see why an uptempo, more pop oriented country station couldn't make it in NYC. Leave the super "beer, America, guns" songs off the playlist. Give it a decent signal and watch the mid 3's roll in.

Problem is, basing a country format on the the uptempo non-redneck material might might not be enough to make a format out of.

Look, I'm a white guy who lives in the Jersey 'burbs, and most of the stuff on country radio doesn't speak to me. Why would it speak to someone from Queens or The Bronx? Lite/Fresh/PLJ already play the country crossover hits...and the suburbs have full fledged country outlets. So the PLJ theory of "screw the 5 boros, serve the suburban soccer moms" might not work out as well since all the burbs are covered with Country (96.1 on LI, Thunder 106 in Jersey, 105.5/106.3 in Westchester, and 92.5 in CT).

There are worse options than country for a fledgling station like 101.9, but I would think that if they can manage to eff up doing news, they would find a way to eff up country.

 

[Jeffrey]

This is New York. Have you been here?

Yes. I've lived right across the river my entire life. Worked at stations in and around the metro. Know it very well. Could drive a good portion of the 5 boroughs with my eyes closed.

But that "this is New York" mentality is EXACTLY why it is the most boring radio dial in the east. Instead of thinking outside the box and trying something new, the S.O.S. keeps getting done again and again.

As I said before, country music is quite different now than when WYNY signed off. Y-107 doesn't really count since there never was a solid signal. That was also 10+ years ago too. Country now is pop with a twang, more than ever before. It's not Hank Williams or the Oak Ridge Boys.

Riddle me this: Would you rather have a 2.8 that also hits very well in the key demos all around the city in the burbs (millions of people) on 101.9 or the whopping .6 they have now? I'll bet the country station with the 2.8 will bill a hell of a lot better than the also ran 3rd news station in the city.

FM News is like trying to open a new fast food joint in between McDonalds and Burger King, while serving the same menu just with not as good quality meat and fries. And RC Cola in the fountains. Good luck with that. Instead, how about trying an ice cream store instead?

Away from the analogy, it would be a hell of a lot cheaper of a format to execute on 101.9 than all news. Given the lack of traction that 101.9 has, what do they have to lose? It just may work. If it doesn't, then on to the next format. Sometimes you have to take a risk to make money and have success. Nobody knew if we could really make it to the moon until we got there. Nobody will know if country could work in NYC in 2012 (14 YEARS after it signed off) without trying it for real.

The best candidate for your NJ signal is WFME.

WBAI: 0.1 119,900 on a full B signal from Empire. That is a complete waste.

I don't find the NY radio dial boring at all. Our musical tastes are different. I live an urban life style, take the subway and live in Brooklyn and prefer the music most New Yorkers do which serves me well.
I gather by how you talk you live in NJ, come to the city occasionally and like country. That's cool but to the average New Yorker country is not on the radar. Sure you'll find country fans, there are many transplants but if it were my money with the train wreck on EMP I would do fm sports at this point. Looking at the demographics I just don't know how much sense country would make.

 

[WNTIRadio]

Can't really say I'm a country fan, actually. 75% of it I don't like, but I can see where there is a gaping hole that could be filled with a few percent of the metro's audience. I've worked in NYC, I get NYC. But there is a very large ring around NYC with millions of people living in it. The metro is 22 million people and the city is 8 million. Just like 'PLJ, it can be done and money can be made.

I'm looking at this from a business standpoint. And as far as diversity on the dial, NYC is severely lacking compared to other markets I travel to.

 

[Barry]

106.3 is now simulcasting Kicks 105.5.
The change occurred around noon, a day earlier than expected.
The station now calls itself on air, "The new Kicks 105.5, and 106.3"
I do not know whether WFAF remains the call for 106.3. WDBI would be a good one, and is apparently available.

 

[TimeIsTight]

But there is a very large ring around NYC with millions of people living in it. The metro is 22 million people and the city is 8 million.

There is a ring of "potential" Country Music fans around NYC, and with the addition of a station in Westchester, a station on Long Island and the growing success of Thunder at the Jersey Shore it appears that the "free market" has found a way to serve many of them by covering most of the ring.

North Jersey is the one unserved area where modern Country might succeed but there are no stations to put it on. WDHA and WFME are the only commercial FM signals transmitting in most of that area. DHA is serving the same kind of demos with Rock, and who knows what will happen with WFME, but Country Music isn't a high probability. Back in the AM days, WJRZ Countrypolitans served that market, but didn't do that well, and there were more stations available to try.

Unfortunately, NYC is not a good potential Country market, and it represents more than half of the "official" Arbitron New York Radio Market.

According to Arbitron, the New York Radio Market has a population of 15,573,500 and it also says that about 39-percent of that total population is Black or Hispanic and they don't usually become Country format fans.

New York City has an official population of 8,175,000 and 33-percent are non-Hispanic White.

Even if there were a couple of additional full market FM channels available there are probably a couple of format choices that would offer more potential success than Country Music. Because of ethnic population demos a Country format would never have the potential to be a top rated station in New York and when you shell out the big bucks for a rare NYC FM license you don't want to put an obvious ceiling on your growth potential.

FM News saw the potential to become the top billing radio station in the country. Only all news offers that potential because you can stick more spots in the format. They just haven't found a working programming and marketing formula yet.

 

[jfrancispastirchak]

Yes, this is indeed good news for NY metro area country fans. But I just can't picture a whole lot of line-dancing happening in The Bronx. Have tastes changed there? Maybe I've been gone too long.