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Goodbye Lib Talk, You're Off To Join The Circus...

I have no problem with higher taxes if it results in universal health care. Sorry to hear about your Uncle. I can't speak to the English system. I know the Danes have an excellent system.

Your case was not made. One in 5 annecdotal issues is at best 20%. And I was only in PA for 2 years. Based on my experience your argument still fails.

At the end of the day liberal thinking is always about thinking forward, conservative is alwsys trying to go back to the way things used to be. they were never that good. Everything looks better in the rearview mirror.

Lee Iacocca said it best: "lead, follow or get out of the way". I always prefer leading.
 
What we're witnessing is a great illustration of why liberal talk radio doesn't attract many listeners. The majority of people who are willing to suspend their disbelief enough to believe in liberal policies would rather listen to either music, or Howard Stern talking about lesbians' breast implants.
 
The TalkingRadio blog notes that in the last year 2 stations have switched TO the lib talk format and
20 (effective yesterday, with WTWK Plattsburg NY/Burl VT moving to women's talk) switching AWAY
from it. Would have been 21 had it not been for the successful effort to "Save the Mic" in Madison.

Who knows, stations carrying nothing but prog talk may be successful someday but I wonder if fans
of libtalk might be better off having the occasional prog talk host on one of the bigger, mostly
conservative stations.
 
sdkalb said:
Your case was not made. One in 5 annecdotal issues is at best 20%. And I was only in PA for 2 years. Based on my experience your argument still fails.

You just made my case again. 20% or 'one in five' might be acceptable for driving priveledges, but not health care.

You might be a little more concerned with the quality of your 'universal' health care when your part of that 20% that fails.

Think Govt healthcare is the answer? I got 2 words for you: Walter Reed.

'nuff said ;)
 
I might objectively point out that Walter reed has been run by the gentlemen picked by the neocons currently running the white house, when they aren't being prosecuted.

Liberal talk stations don't work much anymore because many liberals I suspect (myself included) spend most of our time reading and have no particular interest in listening to joe lunchbucket articulate his views on war and peace. Why do I care?

I want to be intellectually challenged. Hannity could best be described as an ectomorph with all of the intellectual capacity of a flea.

Talk radio has gone from an intellectual discussion of issues and ideas to something of which Morton Downey Jr. would be proud.

Too bad he is no longer alive. He'd do well in the current genre.
 
sdkalb said:
I might objectively point out that Walter reed has been run by the gentlemen picked by the neocons currently running the white house, when they aren't being prosecuted.

Liberal talk stations don't work much anymore because many liberals I suspect (myself included) spend most of our time reading and have no particular interest in listening to joe lunchbucket articulate his views on war and peace. Why do I care?

I want to be intellectually challenged. Hannity could best be described as an ectomorph with all of the intellectual capacity of a flea.

Talk radio has gone from an intellectual discussion of issues and ideas to something of which Morton Downey Jr. would be proud.

Too bad he is no longer alive. He'd do well in the current genre.
you know what?

I cannot disagree with anything you posted! Dangit!

The only thing I would take exception with is "Liberal talk stations don't work much anymore"

truth be told, they never really worked all that well in the first place. ;)

But, your being honest, and I commend that. At least you come to the table with 'I'm a liberal,and I'm not ashamed', and I can respect that. Your not hiding behind some ridiculous 'progressive' moniker.

And, I will admit that the US Pharmaceutical companies are pretty dishonest, as far as 'healthcare' is concerned.

BUt you are 1005 right about where the fault lies in regards to the Walter Reed fiasco. The buck stop at the White House.
 
Amazingly there is dialogue.

I suspect liberal talk stations don't work because (at least the ones I've listened to for 5 minutes) it is forced. I don't know Stephanie Miller from rocks. She strikes me as intelligent so why try to be "funny" 1/2 the time.

That not-terribly-bright or funny fellow who now wants to be Senator (god-help-us) is another example.

There are intelligent, funny, smart people who happen to be liberal. They're not actors or comedians...they are people. Some may be in broadcasting, some not.

First and foremost Limbaugh is good because he is an entertainer. His show is entertaining. I may completely disagree with all he says but he is entertaining. Ann Coulter is a peroxide screed.

Liberals and conservatives have much more in common then most will admit. It serves the interests of politicans and those on the extreme of either side to work against commonality. I can't change your mind any more then you can change mine about many things. We can find places where we agree and where we can work to understand one another. Makes for less then firebrand radio but great society.
 
sdkalb said:
First and foremost Limbaugh is good because he is an entertainer. His show is entertaining. I may completely disagree with all he says but he is entertaining. Ann Coulter is a peroxide screed.

Liberals and conservatives have much more in common then most will admit. It serves the interests of politicans and those on the extreme of either side to work against commonality. I can't change your mind any more then you can change mine about many things. We can find places where we agree and where we can work to understand one another. Makes for less then firebrand radio but great society.

you are right, although I would put Coulter in the same category as Moore or Mahrer. They are 'entertainers', and thier schitck is being 'shocking' or 'outrageous'. No surprise there.

I dont think it's correct to think 'I can't change your mind any more then you can change mine'. My mind has been changed on a number of issues.

Example: Gay adoption. I used to be against it, until a 'liberal' friend of mine showed me some documentary on Chicago orphanages. My mind was changed right then and there.

As the son of a police officer, I still have 'conservative' opinions on the right to bear small arms. But, a liberal journalist showed me how easy it is to get 'armor piercing' rounds. Sorry, but I dont see the need for that~ to have bullets specifically designed to kill cops, or people with 'body armor'. These are but some of the issues I bet we can agree on.

Dont believe that minds cannot be changed. They can
 
I suspect liberal talk stations don't work because (at least the ones I've listened to for 5 minutes) it is forced. I don't know Stephanie Miller from rocks. She strikes me as intelligent so why try to be "funny" 1/2 the time.
Stephanie is quite popular and quite funny(as is her co-host). People on this board criticize everybody...the envious always resent the successful. BTW, Steph and Ed Schultz are doing quite well for themselves...don't think the Jones prog talkers are going anywhere soon.

That not-terribly-bright or funny fellow who now wants to be Senator (god-help-us) is another example.
Al Franken is not smart because why? You don't like what he has to say? Um, Harvard grad. Unlike the rich retard who's running(ruining) our country, he didn't get in to an Ivy League school as a legacy(proving any frat boy nitwit can be admitted if he comes from american "royalty"). Al co-wrote one of the funniest SNL sketches ever...Nixon's Final Days(season 1). Let's hope he gets elected to the Senate and carries on the tradition of the late, great Paul Wellstone.
 
How I wish you were right and I was envious. It would mean that I actually cared about most of talk radio anymore. I don't. I listen now and then more out of curosity as to what passes for talent. Most of it isn't.

Stephanie can be funny but most of the stuff is sophmoric. Al Franken USED to be funny.

Ed Schultz...well I've only heard him once so I can't comment.

Goodbye Art Buchwald. We miss you already. None of today's so-called satirists can hold a candle to your wit.
 
One of the reasons I don't bother responding a lot of the drivel here is that it is just conservatives talking to each other patting themselves on the back for their perceived reality... the same one that said Air America was going off the air in 2004, then 2005, then 2006, and now 2007. And there it still is, right along with Jones (which was told 'nobody wants to hear libtalk') with more stations running Randi and Schultz live, with Stephanie Miller picking up stations right and left (along with ratings), and Air America getting refinanced and renewed.

Even Lionel, who hates political talk radio, is adding stations.

And is there a clear illustration that the money demo is clamoring for conservative talk? Nope. Is it a surprise the 55+ audience that advertisers beyond Oreck aren't interested in are conservative? Nope. Are new stations rushing to pick up Blanquita, Laura, Dennis, and Son of Reagan? Not from where I am sitting. If your show is good, people will listen. Lionel's show (as an example) is good because he doesn't waste a lot of time defending political positions on either side.

Limbaugh's glory days are in the past - he and the second stringers have more and more been reduced to water carriers for TeamFailure, and Rush admitted as such after the midterm elections. And although that may be fine for the 29% of Americans who are delusional enough to believe in Dubya these days (perhaps fewer now that they've brought that special TeamFailure touch to Walter Reed), it's sounding more and more desperate for the reality-based community, not entertaining. Even that ethnobotanist vitamin peddler-turned angry white man "Dr." Savage has stopped bailing Dubya's water over the side and has begun throwing him under the bus instead. What would Sean Hannity say... with us being in the middle of a war and daring to criticize the commander-in-chief and all?

And what defines "entertaining" to the angry white man conservative these days? I didn't hear any boos coming from CPAC when Coulter dropped another one of her delights on the audience. I heard applause and laughter because, for that audience, calling people like John Edwards a slur word for gay -is- funny. Or take -any- of the Fox News Channel's weekend lineup of shows. I am sure there are plenty of conservatives who think there is funny to be found in the "Half Hour News Hour," even if the rest of America perceives this as the worst show on television ever (which is one reason I hope they keep it on the air - it will inevitably be treasured for the same reasons why The Anna Nicole Show drew audiences to that train wreck.) And the artificial laugh track to let the audience know where the funny is is probably the best part.

Back during the first three years of conservative political radio post-Fairness Doctrine, Limbaugh was broadcast on the same kinds of stations airing Air America these days. A lot of the rest of the country was spending their time with NBCs Talknet lineup which was on the 50kw blowtorches. It took several years to build an audience and learn what worked and what didn't. And the same thing happens today. Folks like Stephanie Miller have learned that a well-produced talk program will attract audiences far more than the guy who reads talking points for three hours, no matter where they come from.
 
sdkalb said:
How I wish you were right and I was envious. It would mean that I actually cared about most of talk radio anymore. I don't. I listen now and then more out of curosity as to what passes for talent. Most of it isn't.

Stephanie can be funny but most of the stuff is sophmoric. Al Franken USED to be funny.

Ed Schultz...well I've only heard him once so I can't comment.

Goodbye Art Buchwald. We miss you already. None of today's so-called satirists can hold a candle to your wit.

even more stuff we can agree on.

For any that need to understand why Franken is, was, and really never will be hilarious, go and buy a copy of 'Live From New York. There were genuinely unlikeable comic greats ( Chevy,Eddie Murphy ) and good ol' cornpone Franken. He always had a big head, and not enough chops to back it up. That's why he never got 'Weekend Update' and quit in a typical Frankenhissy.

I'm not saying the guy is untalented, but he couldn't really compete in the big leagues.

His radio show is just another example. ;)
 
the book Live From NY does mention, IIRC, that Franken was in line to be producer of the show but his
"limo for the lame-o" bit about Fred Silverman stopped that (he may have even been fired by Michaels,
but one thing's for sure, the comic bit prevented him from becoming producer)

Harry Shearer's Le Show used to do a bit--before AAR was launched--imagining Al Gore doing a talk show
with Al Franken as the comic sidekick...
 
The Scorpion and the Frog

raccoonradio said:
the book Live From NY does mention, IIRC, that Franken was in line to be producer of the show but his
"limo for the lame-o" bit about Fred Silverman stopped that (he may have even been fired by Michaels,
but one thing's for sure, the comic bit prevented him from becoming producer)

Harry Shearer's Le Show used to do a bit--before AAR was launched--imagining Al Gore doing a talk show
with Al Franken as the comic sidekick...

all true~ and it reveals a disturbing trend within progressive talk radio.

Franken's ego feud with Silverman caused Micheals to rethink putting him where he really wanted to be: the host of 'WU', and eventually cost him his job. He doesn't have the sense not to 'bite the hand', and to complain loudly and publicly about his management.

Even RFK admits that the reason Air America, THE brand of 'liberal talk', could not woo national corporate ad revenues is because of the broadcast content.

Thus, another question: have you ever heard Limbaugh throw Premiere under the bus? I'm not a regular listener, but I can't recall him complaining about his contract 'being too small', or problems with his checks, etc.. Ever heard him diss one of his clients? Moan about how 'the management is ruining his show', etc? Say something so dumb it causes a big corporate sponsor to pull it's ads'?

Maybe thats a key ingredient to his success?
 
What is funny is totally subjective. I have enjoyed Al's work over the years, especially his books. Perhaps you don't. You can't prove someone is funny or not funny. What's totally objective is Al is a major success, despite whatever negative spin posters on this board keep posting, ad nauseum. This obsessive, non-stop bashing of progressive talk radio - and Al Franken in particular - strikes me as a little unhealthy. But those are my subjective thoughts.
 
raymond_shaw said:
What is funny is totally subjective. I have enjoyed Al's work over the years, especially his books. Perhaps you don't. You can't prove someone is funny or not funny. What's totally objective is Al is a major success, despite whatever negative spin posters on this board keep posting, ad nauseum. This obsessive, non-stop bashing of progressive talk radio - and Al Franken in particular - strikes me as a little unhealthy. But those are my subjective thoughts.

I would agree that comedy is 'subjective', but business is not.

I'm sure some people exist that thought 'Stuart Saves his Family' was a hilarious tour de force. However, the box office receipts say otherwise.

As far as 'being the liberal answer to Rush' he failed. NO 'progtalker' out there is trying to mimic Franken's radio footprint, like the conservatives that try to emulate Limbaugh. His predictions of the growth and fiscal viabity of AAR haven't met his own standards~ such as 'it will take three years before AAR starts making $$$'.

Finally, he showed he either could not or did not want a 'caller based' show, which IMHO was his true undoing. The only time I found his show remotely entertaining is when he had a live audience. Him in the studio was a nightmare. Rush in front of a live audience ( remember his horrible TV show? ) was just as bad.

Of course, it's all 'subjective' ;)
 
I'm sure some people exist that thought 'Stuart Saves his Family' was a hilarious tour de force. However, the box office receipts say otherwise.

Which demonstrates that though what is funny is subjective for each individual member of an audience, whether or not a large enough mass of people will find someone funny or entertaining enough to make for a successful show business venture is totally objective.

In that regard, talk radio isn't that different from music radio. The industry suits who decide what songs get played on music radio stations base their decisions on cold, hard numbers and market testing. Why should the suits who decide what spoken word programming gets on news/talk stations operate any differently?
 
Ok, all you people who knock Al Franken - you win. You are correct - he is a massive failure in life. He is the only person in the history of show biz to have some projects not work as well as others. He has been living on welfare and food stamps for the past 35 years. He only made minimum wage when he was on the staff of SNL(& only worked for them because Lorne Michaels likes to help out the lowly in life)

Additonally, all lib talk radio is a failure - even though the rest of AM radio is thriving these days.

Please keep writing more posts on this. It is the most important issue we, as a society, have to face these days.
 
raymond_shaw said:
Ok, all you people who knock Al Franken - you win. You are correct - he is a massive failure in life. He is the only person in the history of show biz to have some projects not work as well as others. He has been living on welfare and food stamps for the past 35 years. He only made minimum wage when he was on the staff of SNL(& only worked for them because Lorne Michaels likes to help out the lowly in life)

Additonally, all lib talk radio is a failure - even though the rest of AM radio is thriving these days.

Please keep writing more posts on this. It is the most important issue we, as a society, have to face these days.

Nobody is saying the guy doesn't haven't have talent. He's is just not as talented as Rush, the guy he claimed he was going on radio to 'beat'.

And Rush has had his shares of flops, too. But, he rules the roost and has loads of copycats, Al doesn't.

As far as Franken 'helping the lowly' , Franken says conservatives are racist because they lack diversity and oppose affirmative action. But fewer than 1 percent of the people he has hired over the past 15 years have been African-American. ;)
 
As far as Franken 'helping the lowly'
actually...
because Lorne Michaels likes to help out the lowly in life
(this was said in sarcasm)
Franken says conservatives are racist because they lack diversity and oppose affirmative action. But fewer than 1 percent of the people he has hired over the past 15 years have been African-American.
Yes, Al thinks all conservatives are racist but he's really one himself. Thanks for proving this to us all.
 
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