Goodbye Progressive Talk in San Francisco

[Gregg]

Clear Channel has decided to end Green 960, a full-time progressive talk station, on the AM dial. KNEW will move from 910 to 960 as Fox News Radio. The story is that liberal Randi Rhodes will continue to be heard Noon - 3pm. She's distributed by Premiere Networks, an arm of Clear Channel. And liberal Alan Colmes will be heard at night since he's syndicated by Fox. But the station will be conservative the rest of the day, using hosts in the Fox stable, heard on their Sirius/XM channel.

The other progressive talk shows now heard on 960, Thom Hartmann, Stephanie Miller, etc., will move to an HD channel of KKSF-FM 103.7, so for the handful of people with HD radios, liberal talk is not gone completely. And 910 will be relaunched as yet another Conservative Talk station, to be called KKSF-AM.

It's sad to see Progressive Talk unable to succeed on a 24 hour AM station in a city like San Francisco. I suppose you could say KGO is local and mostly left of center, leaving little room for 960, a station that runs all nationally syndicated liberal hosts. Unfortunately KSTE Sacramento which carries Savage Nation was getting better ratings in the SF market than KKGN.

I'm also confused as to why CC is moving KNEW from 910 to 960? Both stations are about equal in coverage, both are fulltime 5000 watt signals, both are licensed to Oakland, both will have similar Talk formats. If you add KSFO, does San Francisco need three 5000 watt conservative Talk stations?


Gregg
[email protected]

 

[tripton99]

The lack of a San Francisco success for progressive/liberal talk radio is completely stunning to me. For a city with, at best 20% conservative/Republican registered voters and an over-the-top liberal city government, it would seem to be a breeding ground for passionate liberal dialog.
I blame mediocre radio management and national rather than local hosts for the failure. I was intimately involved with Bay Area talk radio in the '60s (an era with similar social undercurrents) and we couldn't get arrested with any attempts at conservative radio (Pat Michaels comes to mind). And the success we had was despite the crappy 910 frequency and competition from, the very same KGO which was a just dipping a toe in the water in those days.

 

[recto101]

Clear Channel has decided to end Green 960, a full-time progressive talk station, on the AM dial. KNEW will move from 910 to 960 as Fox News Radio. The story is that liberal Randi Rhodes will continue to be heard Noon - 3pm. She's distributed by Premiere Networks, an arm of Clear Channel. And liberal Alan Colmes will be heard at night since he's syndicated by Fox. But the station will be conservative the rest of the day, using hosts in the Fox stable, heard on their Sirius/XM channel.

The other progressive talk shows now heard on 960, Thom Hartmann, Stephanie Miller, etc., will move to an HD channel of KKSF-FM 103.7, so for the handful of people with HD radios, liberal talk is not gone completely. And 910 will be relaunched as yet another Conservative Talk station, to be called KKSF-AM.

It's sad to see Progressive Talk unable to succeed on a 24 hour AM station in a city like San Francisco. I suppose you could say KGO is local and mostly left of center, leaving little room for 960, a station that runs all nationally syndicated liberal hosts. Unfortunately KSTE Sacramento which carries Savage Nation was getting better ratings in the SF market than KKGN.

I'm also confused as to why CC is moving KNEW from 910 to 960? Both stations are about equal in coverage, both are fulltime 5000 watt signals, both are licensed to Oakland, both will have similar Talk formats. If you add KSFO, does San Francisco need three 5000 watt conservative Talk stations?


Gregg
[email protected]

Maybe KNEW will be looking at KNBR Tactics remember the flagship on 680 but it has shows on 1050 KTCT. and 2 doesn't progressive specials exist on the FM side like KPFA? The progressives have that station and possibly other non-profit college run stations they can go to. KKSF-AM is very odd setup for 910 am I will always think of KKSF on FM.

 

[LKellerIII]

The lack of a San Francisco success for progressive/liberal talk radio is completely stunning to me. For a city with, at best 20% conservative/Republican registered voters and an over-the-top liberal city government, it would seem to be a breeding ground for passionate liberal dialog.
I blame mediocre radio management and national rather than local hosts for the failure. I was intimately involved with Bay Area talk radio in the '60s (an era with similar social undercurrents) and we couldn't get arrested with any attempts at conservative radio (Pat Michaels comes to mind). And the success we had was despite the crappy 910 frequency and competition from, the very same KGO which was a just dipping a toe in the water in those days.

For some reason, liberal talk is just not compelling to the majority of listeners. In my opinion, conservative talk does better because it does a better job of tapping into people's anger. You know, "those damn illegal immigrants ruining our country and taking our jobs"..."That damn socialist Obama and his socialist health care..." , etc. etc. Anger makes for compelling and entertaining radio.

At least until recently, and the Occupy movement, liberals have not been showing much anger. And most of the Occupy agenda appeals only to true lefties, not to mainstream liberals, who are very uneasy about the potential for disruptions, violence, and citizen backlash caused by Occupy activities. You will not see the Democrats picking up the cause of the Occupy folks, as the Republicans have done with the Tea Party movement.

As somebody pointed out above, KGO has a number of liberal and moderate talk hosts, and I'm sure most local liberals would rather listen to "live and local" radio than syndicated hosts like Alan Colmes and Randi Rhodes.

 

[recto101]

The lack of a San Francisco success for progressive/liberal talk radio is completely stunning to me. For a city with, at best 20% conservative/Republican registered voters and an over-the-top liberal city government, it would seem to be a breeding ground for passionate liberal dialog.
I blame mediocre radio management and national rather than local hosts for the failure. I was intimately involved with Bay Area talk radio in the '60s (an era with similar social undercurrents) and we couldn't get arrested with any attempts at conservative radio (Pat Michaels comes to mind). And the success we had was despite the crappy 910 frequency and competition from, the very same KGO which was a just dipping a toe in the water in those days.

For some reason, liberal talk is just not compelling to the majority of listeners. In my opinion, conservative talk does better because it does a better job of tapping into people's anger. You know, "those damn illegal immigrants ruining our country and taking our jobs"..."That damn socialist Obama and his socialist health care..." , etc. etc. Anger makes for compelling and entertaining radio.

At least until recently, and the Occupy movement, liberals have not been showing much anger. And most of the Occupy agenda appeals only to true lefties, not to mainstream liberals, who are very uneasy about the potential for disruptions, violence, and citizen backlash caused by Occupy activities. You will not see the Democrats picking up the cause of the Occupy folks, as the Republicans have done with the Tea Party movement.
but not so well on AM here but we need to look at research where liberal talk did better on AM in other parts of the country.
As somebody pointed out above, KGO has a number of liberal and moderate ta lk hosts, and I'm sure most local liberals would rather listen to "live and local" radio than syndicated hosts like Alan Colmes and Randi Rhodes.

I noticed that the liberal movement does bettter on the the blogging level and on non-profit FM radio like Pacifica owned station like KPFA. But 10 years ago I've seen The Facist Bush and Cheney used in the Anti-Iraq war protests here in San Francisco but I only herd it on the Street in blogging media. I know political propaganda sells on AM radio and cable media not so much on Non Profit FM radio and blogs. Maybe conservative talk radio hosts have better consultants than and program directors than the liberal talk show hosts do.

 

[DavidKaye]

It's sad to see Progressive Talk unable to succeed on a 24 hour AM station in a city like San Francisco. I suppose you could say KGO is local and mostly left of center [....]

Uh, yes I'd say that KGO talkhosts are liberal. Are any KGO hosts against same-sex marriage? I don't think even one, not even Bill Wattenburg is against same-sex marriage. Gay stuff is usually a good bellweather for gauging progressive thought.

As for the failure of liberal talk, well it seems that every community of size has at least one liberal talker now. Portland has much of the same line-up that KKGN had, but SF already has KGO, and a well-done live'n'local show is going to do better than a national show under most circumstances, so KGO has already won that battle.

 

[raccoonradio]

Liberals as well as conservatives have shown anger, as seen during Bush administration, on platforms ranging from talk radio to anti-war rallies. It has not been just during the recent Occupy.
One of the new AM lineups will have Rhodes and also Colmes (perhaps seen as not liberal by those on the left but def. liberal by those on right who remember his show w/ Hannity etc.)

Yes the anger is there and yes it can be expressed on radio--as the Clash once put it, "anger can
be power if you know that you can use it".

In Boston when CC dumped WKOX/WXKS prog. talk (it now runs conservative talk with
Hannity, Rush, Levin, and 2 local hosts), there was no prog talk outlet for awhile but for the past few
years a man named Jeff Santos (who was the sole liberal host--Sundays only--on the old WKOX/WXKS)
has bought time on WWZN and put on a progtalk lineup, including local. For the most part it doesn't
show in the ratings (the current CC cons. talker on WXKS doesn't do gangbusters in ratings but has
done OK)
There is also NPR with powerful FM signals to express some leftist viewpoints.

It is also possible to have hosts who are mostly conservative but can be socially liberal on things like
gay rights. Dennis Miller comes to mind; he once remarked "I don't mind if Larry marries Steve but I
would object to an Islamofascist firebombing their wedding".

 

[DJBigOne]

It's sad to see Progressive Talk unable to succeed on a 24 hour AM station in a city like San Francisco. I suppose you could say KGO is local and mostly left of center, leaving little room for 960, a station that runs all nationally syndicated liberal hosts. Unfortunately KSTE Sacramento which carries Savage Nation was getting better ratings in the SF market than KKGN.

Of course Dr. Savage used to be on KNEW...

 

[LKellerIII]

Liberals as well as conservatives have shown anger, as seen during Bush administration, on platforms ranging from talk radio to anti-war rallies. It has not been just during the recent Occupy.
One of the new AM lineups will have Rhodes and also Colmes (perhaps seen as not liberal by those on the left but def. liberal by those on right who remember his show w/ Hannity etc.)

Yes the anger is there and yes it can be expressed on radio--as the Clash once put it, "anger can
be power if you know that you can use it".

In Boston when CC dumped WKOX/WXKS prog. talk (it now runs conservative talk with
Hannity, Rush, Levin, and 2 local hosts), there was no prog talk outlet for awhile but for the past few
years a man named Jeff Santos (who was the sole liberal host--Sundays only--on the old WKOX/WXKS)
has bought time on WWZN and put on a progtalk lineup, including local. For the most part it doesn't
show in the ratings (the current CC cons. talker on WXKS doesn't do gangbusters in ratings but has
done OK)
There is also NPR with powerful FM signals to express some leftist viewpoints.

It is also possible to have hosts who are mostly conservative but can be socially liberal on things like
gay rights. Dennis Miller comes to mind; he once remarked "I don't mind if Larry marries Steve but I
would object to an Islamofascist firebombing their wedding".

Some good points. A couple of comments:

I remember wondering why liberal talk radio didn't do better during the Bush years, when liberal anger was at its peak. Maybe libs got their fill from TV comedians like Stewart and Colbert. Perhaps there's some other more innate reason that liberals are less attracted to talk radio.

I listen to NPR a lot, and still contend that their programming is not liberal, but generally unbiased. NPR is certainly not the left-wing version of Fox News as some contend. Yes - NPR has liberal commentators, but they have conservative commentators too. And they certainly don't rely heavily on pundits as Fox News does; and in the case of Fox News, those pundits are predominantly conservative.

Uh, yes I'd say that KGO talkhosts are liberal. Are any KGO hosts against same-sex marriage? I don't think even one, not even Bill Wattenburg is against same-sex marriage. Gay stuff is usually a good bellweather for gauging progressive thought.

I'm not sure you can count on support for gay marriage as an bellweather for progressive thought. This is the Bay Area, after all, and there is an inherent tolerance here for different segments of society, including gays, who are shunned in other parts of America. IMO, that rubs off on people, whether they're liberal or conservative. There are some conservatives here, but very few fundamentalists.

One of my most conservative friends - who has vehemently defended Sarah Palin on multiple occasions - is pro-gay marriage. She's lived here most of her life, is nominally Catholic, but certainly not a fundamentalist.

 

[Madmansam]

It's sad to see Progressive Talk unable to succeed on a 24 hour AM station in a city like San Francisco. I suppose you could say KGO is local and mostly left of center [....]

Uh, yes I'd say that KGO talkhosts are liberal. Are any KGO hosts against same-sex marriage? I don't think even one, not even Bill Wattenburg is against same-sex marriage. Gay stuff is usually a good bellweather for gauging progressive thought.

As for the failure of liberal talk, well it seems that every community of size has at least one liberal talker now. Portland has much of the same line-up that KKGN had, but SF already has KGO, and a well-done live'n'local show is going to do better than a national show under most circumstances, so KGO has already won that battle.

Sacramento used to have two liberal talk radio stations, KSAC-1240 & KCTC-1320. Now there are none.

 

[LKellerIII]

It occurs to me that liberal talk has never done well. I grew up in LA in the 60s at the beginning of Talk Radio's popularity - my mother was a fan of these shows. The hosts were all local, and the station management tried hard to balance liberal and conservative hosts throughout the day. But even then, the hosts with the big ratings were the incendiary and angry right-wingers like Joe Pyne (KLAC) and Ray Briem (KABC). The only big liberal star I can recall was the erudite and polished Michael Jackson on KABC.

 

[raccoonradio]

Didn't Jackson later wind up on KLAC? A friend of mine noted he saw a billboard for him "on KLAC" even though he's been gone from there for a couple years now at least.

I'm not sure if Gene Burns is still on KGO (I know he had health issues). He has been described as libertarian but I believe he was/is against the recent wars, etc. May have some left-of-center views,
some right-of-center.

 

[LKellerIII]

Didn't Jackson later wind up on KLAC? A friend of mine noted he saw a billboard for him "on KLAC" even though he's been gone from there for a couple years now at least.

I'm not sure if Gene Burns is still on KGO (I know he had health issues). He has been described as libertarian but I believe he was/is against the recent wars, etc. May have some left-of-center views,
some right-of-center.

I believe Jackson was on KLAC a few years ago - after KABC (stupidly) canned him. KLAC dropped the talk format in the late 60s, but tried it again a few years ago, before going to a sports-talk format.

I haven't listened to Gene Burns in a long time, but last time I heard his show, it seemed to me that he had morphed from a libertarian 'Ron Paul' point of view, to a more traditionally liberal one.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

I remember wondering why liberal talk radio didn't do better during the Bush years, when liberal anger was at its peak. Maybe libs got their fill from TV comedians like Stewart and Colbert. Perhaps there's some other more innate reason that liberals are less attracted to talk radio.

I listen to NPR a lot, and still contend that their programming is not liberal, but generally unbiased. NPR is certainly not the left-wing version of Fox News as some contend. Yes - NPR has liberal commentators, but they have conservative commentators too. And they certainly don't rely heavily on pundits as Fox News does; and in the case of Fox News, those pundits are predominantly conservative.

There are days when I feel like I have my arms wrapped around a good full understanding of what makes society tick, and thus what makes talk radio tick. Then I have this moment that is something like waking up from a bad dream and the world is once again a big place of chaos.

It seems to take a certain "mind set" to embrace conservative ideas, and that "mind set" seems to include a lot of responses to "expressed anger". Thus angry talk radio serves as a potent catalyst. (This works in the area of religion as well as political and social issues.)

It seems to take a certain "mind set" to embrace liberal ideas, and that "mind set" has other triggers that outrank anger. (Yes, liberals have anger, but it is not as central to the process.) Thus angry talk radio is ineffective (by comparison) as a catalyst. (Once again, look at the area of religion along with liberal political and social issues. The spectrum is littered with a large number of religious programming outlets. And how many of them are liberal?)

When we watch the TV commercials we realize the advertisers have learned that SEX SELLS. If you have a product or service to sell that can't be pictured well in the middle of something sexy, you may have to find something other than TV as your message media. When we listen to radio we realize that ANGER MOTIVATES. If you have an ideology to share that can't be pictured well in the middle of something angry, you may have to find something other than radio as your message media.

When liberals had something BIG that reflected ANGER.... Viet Nam.... some media tools worked.... temporarily.

Oh well. It's a theory.

 

[DavidKaye]

The only big liberal star I can recall was the erudite and polished Michael Jackson on KABC.

Uh, Ira Fistell?

 

[LKellerIII]

The only big liberal star I can recall was the erudite and polished Michael Jackson on KABC.

Uh, Ira Fistell?

I believe I said "The only big liberal star I can recall..." The last 3 words are my standard disclaimer. My memory ain't what it used to be. Now that you mention it, I do recall Fistell from his short time on the Talk Radio network - or whatever it was called, aired locally on KGO-FM "104" (103.7).

 

[NoMoreLurking]

I'm also confused as to why CC is moving KNEW from 910 to 960?  Both stations are about equal in coverage, both are fulltime 5000 watt signals, both are licensed to Oakland, both will have similar Talk formats.  If you add KSFO, does San Francisco need three 5000 watt conservative Talk stations?

910 is actually licensed for 20kw day, 5kw night, says Radio Locator. From the maps there it appears that 910 and 960 do have similar coverage, though.

If CC must move the KNEW calls, why not move the KNEW lineup to 960? And why the bizarre move of creating a KKSF-AM? They don't even like associating those calls with 103.7; now this. True, call letters are not nearly as important in the PPM world. But these moves - and the move of Bleu to 103.7, for that matter, AND the useless new "FM progressive talk" on 103.7 HD2 - smack of change for the sake of change. It's as if CC corporate told local management to "do something!!!" yet refused to give them any money with which to do it.

 

[recto101]

But Look there are 3 sports stations in the Bay Area and 3 Conservative talk radio shows in the Bay Area. But we need to see the results in a few years if it worked.

 

[Madmansam]

With several former KGO talkers unemployed, I wonder who will go to KKSF-910's new afternoon local talk show? Gene Burns perhaps?

 

[DaveBayArea]

I remember wondering why liberal talk radio didn't do better during the Bush years, when liberal anger was at its peak. Maybe libs got their fill from TV comedians like Stewart and Colbert. Perhaps there's some other more innate reason that liberals are less attracted to talk radio.

I looked this up once back when I was wondering the same thing (in the Air America era). The more politically left individuals are younger, college-educated, and spend lots of time online. They don't usually listen to radio. When they do, it's usually FM. Liberal talk has a rough time on AM because it's a stretch for that audience to even turn on an AM radio. Plus, they're used to getting information from the web.

Dave B.