Got to hear "your" JACK

[camaro69]

Just got home from visiting the ever swell Jet City.
Had a chance to listen to JACK while I was in town on vacation.
Good to know that "your" JACK is as screwed up and unfocused as most all of the others that I've heard.

One cold segue that had me staring at the car radio, then bursting into laughter was, Queensryche "Silent Lucidity" into The Mary Jane Girls "My House." Now THAT'S comedy. And one heck of a train wreck.

I just hope that the corporate morons who made the decisions to go JACK and toss a lot of excellent radio talent on the street, are still around when this 'format' tanks in the next year or so. I'd love to hear their explanations. And even more so, I'd love to see them get pink slipped. (As if that is ever gonna really happen.)

And by the way, I have forgotten. Is it always sunny and near 80 in Seattle?
LOL

 

[eastsidah]

> Just got home from visiting the ever swell Jet City.
> Had a chance to listen to JACK while I was in town on
> vacation.
> Good to know that "your" JACK is as screwed up and unfocused
> as most all of the others that I've heard.
>
> One cold segue that had me staring at the car radio, then
> bursting into laughter was, Queensryche "Silent Lucidity"
> into The Mary Jane Girls "My House." Now THAT'S comedy.
> And one heck of a train wreck.
>
> I just hope that the corporate morons who made the decisions
> to go JACK and toss a lot of excellent radio talent on the
> street, are still around when this 'format' tanks in the
> next year or so. I'd love to hear their explanations. And
> even more so, I'd love to see them get pink slipped. (As if
> that is ever gonna really happen.)
>
> And by the way, I have forgotten. Is it always sunny and
> near 80 in Seattle?
> LOL
>

Seattle has some of the best summertime weather in the world..not too hot, certianly not cold, and not nearly as much rain as we like people to think there is...rain happens the rest of the year...

Just don't tell anyone...or you know what we'll have to do...

 

[AQH]

> Seattle has some of the best summertime weather in the
> world..not too hot, certianly not cold, and not nearly as
> much rain as we like people to think there is...rain
> happens the rest of the year...
>
> Just don't tell anyone...or you know what we'll have to
> do...

Yeah, the population of the Puget Sound Area has only increased by a million, and the 12+ Seattle radio market has increased 800,000 in the past 12 years. I think it's all still a secret.

 

[dialtwisty]

Seattle Summer WX

>>>> Seattle has some of the best summertime weather in the world....

Yeah...and you're PAYING for it!

 

[AQH]

It's funny you mention this, because I heard two interesting segues on Thursday in the 9 a.m. hour on my way down to Auburn.

Led Zep "Whole Lotta Love" into Sugar Ray "Fly" and Fleetwood Mac "Second Hand News" into Young MC "Bust A Move".

 

[Kelly]

> Yeah, the population of the Puget Sound Area has only
> increased by a million, and the 12+ Seattle radio market has
> increased 800,000 in the past 12 years. I think it's all
> still a secret.

Sort of like the conspiracy theroy with the KNHC web site a few weeks ago...

 

[AQH]

> Sort of like the conspiracy theroy with the KNHC web site a
> few weeks ago...

You just have to consider the source on that one.

 

[StangBuddy]

I'm not a real big defender of "Jack" but I'll tell you one thing that's really bothered me over the years. The segue! Just what is a segue and what does it mean to your audience. Really!

Does a segue have much to do with talent, research, station-listener interaction and development, promotions or advertising. Does the sales geek hit the pavement and beg a spec client with the notion that "My computer can segue a song better than the other guys computer can"!

The segue, as we knew it, died long ago and is destined for the archival memories of certain student advisors. Don't get me too wrong since I know the process can be...important I guess.

The segue simply died 12-14 years ago when the computer took over.

 

[AQH]

You're talking about the art of the segue. Camaro69 is pointing out the science of it.

Those crazy segues like "Silent Lucidity" and "In My House" are not very good TSL builders.



> I'm not a real big defender of "Jack" but I'll tell you one
> thing that's really bothered me over the years. The segue!
> Just what is a segue and what does it mean to your audience.
> Really!
>
> Does a segue have much to do with talent, research,
> station-listener interaction and development, promotions or
> advertising. Does the sales geek hit the pavement and beg a
> spec client with the notion that "My computer can segue a
> song better than the other guys computer can"!
>
> The segue, as we knew it, died long ago and is destined for
> the archival memories of certain student advisors. Don't get
> me too wrong since I know the process can be...important I
> guess.
>
> The segue simply died 12-14 years ago when the computer took
> over.
>

 

[StangBuddy]

> You're talking about the art of the segue. Camaro69 is
> pointing out the science of it.
>
> Those crazy segues like "Silent Lucidity" and "In My House"
> are not very good TSL builders.
>
Actually that doesn't sound like a bad segue. Both songs come from, more or less, the same time period, seperated by, I beleive, about 8-10 years. "Silent' has a soft fade going into a soft intro with the Madness (?) song. This is a segue that a computer could master the science of, even if badly programmed.

The tempo is wrong but only one or two stations think about that...be it art or science..

As for the tunes both are very big. Research will show high familiarity within the target, "Jack" type listener and strong appeal to both genres.

As a programmer I'd live with this, but not many of us think about those type of issues now. Then of course "Neutron Dance" might be scheduled next and then I'd wince! But that's "Jack". That's what they do.

 

[AQH]

> Actually that doesn't sound like a bad segue. Both songs
> come from, more or less, the same time period, seperated by,
> I beleive, about 8-10 years. "Silent' has a soft fade going
> into a soft intro with the Madness (?) song. This is a segue
> that a computer could master the science of, even if badly
> programmed.

Incorrect. Please read the thread again.


> The tempo is wrong but only one or two stations think about
> that...be it art or science..

Again, please read the thread again.


> As for the tunes both are very big. Research will show high
> familiarity within the target, "Jack" type listener and
> strong appeal to both genres.

I would like to see you prove what you just stated with actual numbers. Can you come through for us?


> As a programmer I'd live with this, but not many of us think
> about those type of issues now. Then of course "Neutron
> Dance" might be scheduled next and then I'd wince! But
> that's "Jack". That's what they do.

"Neutron Dance" is closer to reality to what this thread started off with. Thanks for re-affirming what I pointed out.

 

[StangBuddy]

The segue is overstated. I'll revert to my original post. This debate is somewhat meaningless.

I've studied research, ARB, and actual humans for years. I'm retired. From my perspective however I feel secure with my opinions in that a music "mix" is fairly important. Targeting a specific audience, and super-serving them, is also very important. The segue had its place but, with a few exceptions, ain't that important. And speaking of numbers I'd like to ask you this.."Can you quantify a segue"..??

Right now there appears to be a movement in which large signals, in large markets, have decided that's OK to throw all of the rules out the window and give us marginal music mixes along with no jocks, traffic reports, news, weather or any semblance of humanity outside of the occasional promotional announcement for the client who didn't pay the intern to show up at a weekend sale.

Now you can argue the merits of numbers, segues or whatever, but I'll tell you right now that if music mixes, or the segue, is your argument for demonizing music radio than you may want to re-evaluate things just a bit.

Noone ever got a spike in the numbers over segues.

 

[AQH]

> The segue is overstated. I'll revert to my original post.
> This debate is somewhat meaningless.

Is it meaningless because you can't back up what you stated before with the research numbers?


> I've studied research, ARB, and actual humans for years. I'm
> retired. From my perspective however I feel secure with my
> opinions in that a music "mix" is fairly important.
> Targeting a specific audience, and super-serving them, is
> also very important. The segue had its place but, with a few
> exceptions, ain't that important. And speaking of numbers
> I'd like to ask you this.."Can you quantify a segue"..??

I've done everything you have, plus more. Are you really shifting the topic at hand to credentials?

You are not "super-serving" a specific audience by delivering such TSL-killer segways. That's the point of my message before you shifted into research and even changed the songs. Even though you refuse to acknowledge it, again, it's not necessarily the SOUND of the segway, it's the appeal of the songs.


> Right now there appears to be a movement in which large
> signals, in large markets, have decided that's OK to throw
> all of the rules out the window and give us marginal music
> mixes along with no jocks, traffic reports, news, weather or
> any semblance of humanity outside of the occasional
> promotional announcement for the client who didn't pay the
> intern to show up at a weekend sale.

Now you say "marginal music mixes," yet in the paragraph before, you say segues "ain't that important." Which is it? Or do I want to know?


> Now you can argue the merits of numbers, segues or whatever,
> but I'll tell you right now that if music mixes, or the
> segue, is your argument for demonizing music radio than you
> may want to re-evaluate things just a bit.

Again, please read the thread....you should be "re-evaluating things just a bit." I only said these segways are TSL killers, not that Jack was destined for disaster.

> Noone ever got a spike in the numbers over segues.

Pick up a copy of the Dallas and Denver Arbitrons. Specifically, the first full book with "Jack" in each of the markets. Compare the TSLs from then with the TSLs that are coming out now. I would post it here for you, but that is against the rules.

Sorry to throw reality into your argument.

 

[camaro69]

Kids, kids...can't we all just get along?
LOL.
I didn't mean for this to cause a fight between AQH and StangBuddy.
AQH was right, I was talking about the science of putting those songs back to back, not the art of a smooth sounding blend of the two.
And they did sound terrible in that segue.
Completely different textures, feel, pace, and genre.
If there had been a sweeper between the two it would not have been so obvious.
Perhaps the solution is to have sweepers between every song.
Although the JACK in my current city is running a sweeper saying that they don't believe it's necessary to identify themselves between each song.
Perhaps not, but it would provide a necessary airbag cushion when you have some obvious train wrecks.

Oh, and I really did know about how nice Seattle summers are.
I spent a few of them in studios "on the shores of Lake Washington," the Tower Building and even in the Watermark Tower.
Ahhhh, the memories.

Enjoy the sunshine!

 

[StangBuddy]

Lets add just a little perspective here. In Seattle KOMO-AM is the news station, KIRO-AM is the information station, THE END is Alternative, KISW is STERN/Rock, KBSG is Oldies, KING-FM is Classical, KZOK remains Classic Rock/RIVERS, The BUZZ is HOT/FM-Talk, KMPS is Country, WARM is Soft, KUBE is RAP/HITS, KVI is Right Wing and KPTK is Air America/Left.

Here's a list of stations that have identity problems around Puget Sound. KLSY. Nuff said. THE MOUNTAIN..ugh.. KPLZ, KTTH, and "JACK".

Noone knows much about "Jack" except there's a quirky voice guy who doesn't like to play requests. So now we're left to define this station and, as this thread often punctuates, we've been diminished to "The segue".

I know there's alot of people out there who've spent years over-researching 300-500 titles and, all of the sudden, there's this new engine in town spitting out 1500 titles that many of you couldn't even imagine doing call-out on. That's why you may be confounded. As a former research geek myself I can name title/artist of every song that floats on the "Jack" airwaves. And I know exactly why they're playing those songs.

When you've got over signaled markets like Dallas, Denver or Seattle and outlets that have had identity problems for years, like 96.5 in Puget Sound, you find a bunch of geeks to super-research more than just 70 or 80 titles a month. Then you get the results and you program the computer and you pray for ratings..

Texture, talent, emotion, skill, information or segues don't come into the equation here. It never did when it came to call-out. And none of you guys doing that research really has any idea about any of this segue stuff and that's why corporate has reduced you to "Jack".

 

[AQH]

> Noone knows much about "Jack" except there's a quirky voice
> guy who doesn't like to play requests. So now we're left to
> define this station and, as this thread often punctuates,
> we've been diminished to "The segue".

The thread STARTED with "the segue." It is you who has taken this thread on this awkward journey. All talk and no substance.

 

[StangBuddy]

Actually it started with Re: Got to hear "your" JACK. And this station, as you mentioned, has very little talk and minimal substance. Quite observant.

I still have the station, as well as this board, on my presets however.

 

[OldiesCat]

JACK response

What you might define as a "train wreck" is not a concept regular, everyday radio listeners can even conceptualize. Radio listeners either like the songs or they don't. In dozens and dozens of music tests and focus groups, I've never heard the term "train wreck" or even anything close to "but the songs they play don't fit together properly". "Train wreck" is a RADIO GEEK mindset- all your listeners want is music they like.

Please consider:

***JACK is meant to be unusual, unpredictable and purposely different

***JACK was designed as a station where it's OK to break "the rules"-- that's
80% of the charm. They are not supposed to have paramaters like the stale
radio of today so many of you whine about every day

***JACK-style formats are having really great early success (earlier than I'd
have thought) in Phoenix, L.A. and St. Louis.

It's fine if you do not like them- I find most people bitching and moaning about JACK are the same people who incessantly whine about radio being old, tired, stale and same old/same old. Something fresh & new comes along and all of a sudden it gets criticized because it's 180 degrees different from the typical radio-think.


> One cold segue that had me staring at the car radio, then
> bursting into laughter was, Queensryche "Silent Lucidity"
> into The Mary Jane Girls "My House." Now THAT'S comedy.
> And one heck of a train wreck.
>
> I just hope that the corporate morons who made the decisions
> to go JACK and toss a lot of excellent radio talent on the
> street, are still around when this 'format' tanks in the
> next year or so. I'd love to hear their explanations. And
> even more so, I'd love to see them get pink slipped. (As if
> that is ever gonna really happen.)
>
> And by the way, I have forgotten. Is it always sunny and near 80 in Seattle?
> LOL
>

 

[AQH]

Re: JACK response

> What you might define as a "train wreck" is not a concept
> regular, everyday radio listeners can even conceptualize.
> Radio listeners either like the songs or they don't. In
> dozens and dozens of music tests and focus groups, I've
> never heard the term "train wreck" or even anything close to
> "but the songs they play don't fit together properly".
> "Train wreck" is a RADIO GEEK mindset- all your listeners
> want is music they like.
>
> Please consider:
>
> ***JACK is meant to be unusual, unpredictable and purposely
> different

Different how? You just stated that "train wrecks" do not exist to listeners. Aside from having no jocks on the station, how is it different?

This is a world that has products and marketing that are so narrow that, yes, Jack does sound a little pleasantly different sometimes. But how long is it before it wears off? There is clear evidence in other markets that Jack is either losing its legs already or will never become a factor in a market.


> ***JACK was designed as a station where it's OK to break
> "the rules"-- that's
> 80% of the charm. They are not supposed to have
> paramaters like the stale
> radio of today so many of you whine about every day

What "rules" are they breaking?


> ***JACK-style formats are having really great early success
> (earlier than I'd
> have thought) in Phoenix, L.A. and St. Louis.

And the first US Jack is fading in Denver. Number two is fading in Dallas as well. And Atlanta took a nosedive in the ratings released yesterday.


> It's fine if you do not like them- I find most people
> bitching and moaning about JACK are the same people who
> incessantly whine about radio being old, tired, stale and
> same old/same old. Something fresh & new comes along and
> all of a sudden it gets criticized because it's 180 degrees
> different from the typical radio-think.

Jack was a darling for some people on this board (like Larry). I pointed out that the format couldn't be more cookie-cutter, and that's still true. The only variation is the logo used in LA and New York, different from the others.

 

[OldiesCat]

JACK response

Do I really have to explain these things to you? Are you at all aware of the thinking behind JACK (or Bob/Charlie/etc.)? If not I'd be happy to run it down but it's been plastered on every radio board for the past couple of months, ad nauseum.

Not being a wise-guy. Just asking.

> >
> > ***JACK is meant to be unusual, unpredictable and purposely different
>
> Different how? You just stated that "train wrecks" do not
> exist to listeners. Aside from having no jocks on the
> station, how is it different?
>
> This is a world that has products and marketing that are so
> narrow that, yes, Jack does sound a little pleasantly
> different sometimes. But how long is it before it wears
> off? There is clear evidence in other markets that Jack is
> either losing its legs already or will never become a factor
> in a market.
>
>
> > ***JACK was designed as a station where it's OK to break
> > "the rules"-- that's
> > 80% of the charm. They are not supposed to have
> > paramaters like the stale
> > radio of today so many of you whine about every day
>
> What "rules" are they breaking?
>
>
> > ***JACK-style formats are having really great early
> success
> > (earlier than I'd
> > have thought) in Phoenix, L.A. and St. Louis.
>
> And the first US Jack is fading in Denver. Number two is
> fading in Dallas as well. And Atlanta took a nosedive in
> the ratings released yesterday.
>
>
> > It's fine if you do not like them- I find most people
> > bitching and moaning about JACK are the same people who
> > incessantly whine about radio being old, tired, stale and
> > same old/same old. Something fresh & new comes along and
> > all of a sudden it gets criticized because it's 180
> degrees
> > different from the typical radio-think.
>
> Jack was a darling for some people on this board (like
> Larry). I pointed out that the format couldn't be more
> cookie-cutter, and that's still true. The only variation is
> the logo used in LA and New York, different from the others.
>