GRAVEYARD STATIONS

[greenboy]

Does anyone know if there are any "graveyard stations" 1230,1240,1340,1400,1450 or 1490 that operate with 100 watts? I was
talking to someone about this and they believe there are still a few that have been "grandfathered" in. I searched the FCC site
and I was unable to find any. We were also discussing the horrible nightime reception on these stations and I was wondering if
these stations would go further at night if they reduced there power to 250 watts ND instead of the current 1KW nights. I think
they would probably have a better nightime signal due to less skywave interference. As I am not an engineer I thought I would
ask the pros.

 

[DarkStarPDX]

We have one graveyard station here in the Portland that I am aware of... KBMS.

 

[SuperQ]

Unfortunately I am old enough to remember when these stations reduced power to 250 watts at night. You got about the same amount of coverage as you do now. BUT, you now have better override of man made noise within the coverage area you do have at night. Everybody dropping the power would not appreciably change the interference contours. It would just mean you would have more trouble hearing the station next to a computer or light dimmer 4 or 5 miles away.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

I was wondering if
these stations would go further at night if they reduced there power to 250 watts ND instead of the current 1KW nights. I think
they would probably have a better nightime signal due to less skywave interference.

I'm not sure I follow your logic. The graveyard station that is local to you may be getting out 6 miles in each directions currently. You are basically listening to it's ground wave. You will not get ANY of the skywave of the local station that close in. If you reduce the power to 250 then maybe you would get 5 miles coverage and you would slightly reduce the skywave for someone else 200, 600 or may 900 miles away. So reducing the power to 250 at night would give a tiny, tiny, tiny relief to other stations a thousand miles away, but do nothing for your ability to listen 4, 6 or 10 miles from your local station.

 

[greenboy]

I was wondering if
these stations would go further at night if they reduced there power to 250 watts ND instead of the current 1KW nights. I think
they would probably have a better nightime signal due to less skywave interference.

I'm not sure I follow your logic. The graveyard station that is local to you may be getting out 6 miles in each directions currently. You are basically listening to it's ground wave. You will not get ANY of the skywave of the local station that close in. If you reduce the power to 250 then maybe you would get 5 miles coverage and you would slightly reduce the skywave for someone else 200, 600 or may 900 miles away. So reducing the power to 250 at night would give a tiny, tiny, tiny relief to other stations a thousand miles away, but do nothing for your ability to listen 4, 6 or 10 miles from your local station.

The reason I asked is because I am about 12 miles away from a graveyard station and I get the training sound from all the other stations
and I just thought that the reduction in power would allow me to hear the station I listen to without as much interference. I know I am out
of the area they target, but I like some of the shows they carry better than some of my local shows.
I do appreciate everyone's answers though. Thank You.

 

[qtpieislit]

We have one graveyard station here in the Portland that I am aware of... KBMS.

1480 is not considered a graveyard channel. In fact 1480 has 60% less stations on that channel than any typical graveyard/local frequency. Thus, it is a potentially, relatively more attractive frequency. Of coarse that clearly depends on you DA configuration, and anyone in the US on 1480 that has 1 Kw or better at night is DA.

Here are some cool rare power exceptions (listed below) beyond the standard 1 Kw day and night on the Graveyard frequency’s. However, there are some stations on these frequency’s (not listed below) that are still at reduced power at night, and a few are even below 1 Kw day. Notice CJFP with 20 Kw at night on 1400. Now that is rare.


1230 XEID        2.5 Kw
1240 CJCD        1 KW-D, 4 Kw-N
1240 XELM        2.5 KW
1340 CJLS        5 Kw DA-D, 4 Kw DA-N
1400 CJFP        10 KW-D, 20 Kw DA-N
1400 CBG          4 Kw
1450 CHUC        8 Kw-D
1450 CHEF        10 Kw DA-D-N
1450 XENA        25kw-D
1450 XEJD        5 Kw-D
1490 XERO        2.5 Kw
1490 XESK        2.5 Kw
1490 XECJC      2 Kw

 

[al_atl]

Here are a couple of stations that are very low power!

CBEY-1340. 40 watts day and night. CBC Radio One
CHMO-1450. 50 watts day and night.

Both stations are in Moosonee, Ontario. A very small town in a pretty remote area at the southern tip of James Bay.

As you might expect of a CBC facility, CBEY has a nice clean sound. CHMO, on the other hand, has horrible audio quality. At least it did the last time I heard it. Sometimes extremely over-modulated, sometimes under-modulated. Maybe they have no audio processing? When the levels are good, they sound about like your average Clear Channel station in the US...telephone-like quality audio.

 

[qtpieislit]

It is the strangest thing. Neither CBEY, of CHMO is listed on radio-locator, or BCMap. Go figure. I guess they must be considered carrier current. LOL.

 

[w9wi]

It is the strangest thing. Neither CBEY, of CHMO is listed on radio-locator, or BCMap. Go figure. I guess they must be considered carrier current. LOL.

Both stations are listed in the Industry Canada database, and as Class LP. (There *are* carrier current stations in the I-C database but they're listed as class CC)
_________________________________________________
KBMS isn't a graveyard station, but there is a graveyard station in Portland, KBPS 1450. There's also 1230 KSZN in Gresham.
_________________________________________________
All of the Canadian stations on that list, except CBG, are no more. It's possible CHUC is still on AM - I forget whether their simulcast period is over yet - but if they're still on they won't be for long. They're on 107.9 FM.

CJLS is on 95.5 FM and CJCD on 100.1. CJFP has been deleted. I think CHEF has too - there's now a CHEF-FM on 99.9 but I don't think it's related to the defunct AM.

I have a vague recollection that there's a loophole in the NARBA treaty that allows more than 1kw on a Class C frequency if the signal crossing the border doesn't exceed what would come from a 1kw station *on* the border. Could be way off on that though.

 

[qtpieislit]

Good stuff. Thanks for the update. Apparently BCmap needs some serious updating.

 

[pqgeorge]

Here are a couple of stations that are very low power!

CBEY-1340. 40 watts day and night. CBC Radio One
CHMO-1450. 50 watts day and night.

Both stations are in Moosonee, Ontario. A very small town in a pretty remote area at the southern tip of James Bay.

As you might expect of a CBC facility, CBEY has a nice clean sound. CHMO, on the other hand, has horrible audio quality. At least it did the last time I heard it. Sometimes extremely over-modulated, sometimes under-modulated. Maybe they have no audio processing? When the levels are good, they sound about like your average Clear Channel station in the US...telephone-like quality audio.

These 2 stations you mentioned are examples of LPRT (Low Power Relay Transmitters) usually unmanned and which generally operate between 20 to 50 watts on the AM band. The majority of them are running 40 watts and many of them are located at Canadian National Railway stations. Before the advent of satellite, these stations were fed via very limited quality phone lines (barely useable for voice, never mind music). But they were the only means of getting radio available to people in some very "way-out" places in Canada. CBC used many of these LPRT's to relay the programs of the major outlets of CBC from Montreal, Toronto et.al.. CBEY is more than likely a relay of CBE/Windsor via satellite. CBC has a tendency to have their relay stations (including LPRT's) to have their call-letters co-incide with the main key station. For example, CBMB/91.7 in Sherbrooke, QC is a relay for Montreal's CBC Radio One station, CBM/88.5 Montreal (originally on 940 AM). I think you get the idea. In spite of their flea power, many of these LPRT stations have a very strong following with the local listeners. The stations are especially helpful in some of the northernmost areas of Canada, where the Northern Lights (aurora) make it nearly impossible at night to hear the more powerful AM stations directly from some of Canada's major cities. I actually heard some of these LPRT stations while driving through Quebec and New Brunswick. They were easy to distinguish with the limited dial-up quality phone line audio and the location of the transmitters.

73,

Peter Q. George (K1XRB)
Whitman, Massachusetts

 

[CW]

Unfortunately I am old enough to remember when these stations reduced power to 250 watts at night. You got about the same amount of coverage as you do now. BUT, you now have better override of man made noise within the coverage area you do have at night. Everybody dropping the power would not appreciably change the interference contours. It would just mean you would have more trouble hearing the station next to a computer or light dimmer 4 or 5 miles away.

250w to 1KW is about 6db of power increase and I worked at a 1450 that changed to 250 at night. NOW at 1KW at night, a co channel 100miles away covers it up 20miles to the south where before it could be heard 20 miles to the south at 250w! Increasing the night power to 1KW only raised the noise floor of the channels....didnt help the stations much....and in some cases, caused more problems than it solved.

 

[greenboy]

CW, I agree with you, that is exactly the point I was making. I think at 250w there would be a lot less interference from stations on
the same channels than the current 1KW. I know of a 23w ND/N station that gets out further than some of the 1KW graveyards.
I have even heard a 6w station at 1550AM that gets out pretty clear to about 8 to 10 miles depending on skywave conditions.