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Great AM catches

R

roger6309

Guest
Last week I picked up AM 750 WSB in Denver, CO. Usually hard to pick it up but was coming in pretty good that night. Last year picked up 1470 AM WRGA from Rome GA while I was on the Georgia coast. It's has a 5K signal and I was 360 miles from the stick. What have you all picked up lately.......
 
roger6309 said:
Last week I picked up AM 750 WSB in Denver, CO. Usually hard to pick it up but was coming in pretty good that night. Last year picked up 1470 AM WRGA from Rome GA while I was on the Georgia coast. It's has a 5K signal and I was 360 miles from the stick. What have you all picked up lately.......

Haven't heard anything special lately in the Chicago area, but a month or so ago while in Puerto Rico I heard WGN, WLS, WBBM, WLW, WCBS, WABC, & several Florida stations.
 
roger6309 said:
Last week I picked up AM 750 WSB in Denver, CO. Usually hard to pick it up but was coming in pretty good that night. Last year picked up 1470 AM WRGA from Rome GA while I was on the Georgia coast. It's has a 5K signal and I was 360 miles from the stick. What have you all picked up lately.......

Nice catches! For me, I picked up KABQ "Albuquerque's Progressive Talk" here in Michigan last week on 1350 which surprised the heck out of me. Clear as day just long enough to record a nice ID during sunrise skip.
 
Nothing exceptional recently here northwest of Chicago. My last nice really nice catch was CKWX (Vancouver) a few times late last year. A little before that, I snagged CFAC from Calgary....which I guess isn't all that rare, but I hadn't done it. I was in Vancouver myself several weeks ago, and was surprised to hear CFAC there also....given that the juice is aimed in the opposite direction.
 
kilokat7 said:
roger6309 said:
Last week I picked up AM 750 WSB in Denver, CO. Usually hard to pick it up but was coming in pretty good that night. Last year picked up 1470 AM WRGA from Rome GA while I was on the Georgia coast. It's has a 5K signal and I was 360 miles from the stick. What have you all picked up lately.......

Nice catches! For me, I picked up KABQ "Albuquerque's Progressive Talk" here in Michigan last week on 1350 which surprised the heck out of me. Clear as day just long enough to record a nice ID during sunrise skip.
Wow...that would have blown me away. Superb catch!
 
Last fall, I picked up a few stations at a considerable distance WEST of me.  (I'm near San Diego, CA.)  I was using a Tecsun PL-380 and Select-A-Tenna.

One of the first ones I heard was this one on 657 kHz from Pyongyang, North Korea.  (Anyone know what their callsign or transmitter power is, or any other details?)

Another one was 500kW 774 JOUB from Akita, Japan.  I'm about 7.3 miles southeast of a local station on 760, KFMB, which runs 5kW days, 50kW nights, directional nighttime only.  KFMB had just switched to their daytime operation.  So far this one is the strongest signal I have received at that distance.

My best confirmed catch so far, not for distance (Pyongyang is farther) or signal strength (JOUB was stronger), but for the interference I had to dodge, is 300kW 594 JOAK from Tokyo, Japan.  (Skip ahead to about a minute into the recording.)  I'm only 7.7 miles from local 5kW 600 KOGO, which runs IBOC. (And, you IBOC proponents do NOT have permission to use this to prove that it's still possible to DX around IBOC. If you do, engineers at (preferably 50kW) IBOC stations have my full moral support to shut off the transmitter, set up a beverage antenna, and record a first-adjacent DX signal in the middle of the day (or night if they prefer), halfway through which they turn the local transmitter back on, proving that IBOC does indeed interfere with reception of stations.)

I think I may have also, sometime in the past month or so, possibly tagged 1 MW 1575 VOA from Ban Rasom, Thailand, using the Tecsun PL-606 and Select-A-Tenna, as well as maybe the 1557 kHz Family Radio station in, I think, Taiwan (sounded like religious music during the brief fadeups.  I don't have the recordings uploaded yet for someone to confirm them, though, and I wouldn't be posting them in this thread unless they were confirmed.
I do have 250kW 1566 HLAZ from Jeju, South Korea, which I heard last month with the PL-606 and Select-A-Tenna.

As for a domestic catch...  I didn't record this one, but several years ago I picked up the Radio Disney outlet from Albuquerque, NM, on 1240 - KALY (now silent, I think).  I also have a local station on 1240, KNSN (this was several years ago so I think it was KNSN at the time), about 11.2 miles from me which is strong enough to have the channel to itself at night.  They were on the air at the time, too, but with an unmodulated carrier, enabling KALY to be heard.  KALY is east of me, basically the opposite direction of KNSN, and I was using a Select-A-Tenna (so I couldn't null the local due to the loop's figure 8 pattern) with a Panasonic RQ-SW20 (or SW10 - same radio, slightly different features like different bass boost, etc).

Also, a question.  If I was going to travel a short distance (maybe a couple hour drive) from home to try for a better TP DXing environment from near saltwater, which location would you experienced TP DXers think would be better, some place between Del Mar & Oceanside on the San Diego coast, or some beach near L.A. or Long Beach (right next to the ocean, but with all the Tijuana, San Diego & L.A. powerhouses right there), or near the Salton Sea (inland some distance, but away from the coastal QRM, most of whom use directional antennas that don't send much to the east, and it's near water too)?
 
tfcwings said:
I'm only 7.7 miles from local 5kW 600 KOGO, which runs IBOC.
I can explain why 594 was clear. IBOC stations are generally operating with 5khz analog audio. That puts KOGO's analog from 595-600khz. With my Icom receiver in 3khz bandwidth, looking at 700 WLW (50KW huge signal at 90 miles), it's apparent that the first hint of IBOC starts at +/- 9khz with a full dose of it from about +/- 10 - 15khz. So anything in the +/- 5 - 8khz range from a local with IBOC will probably be cleaner than with a non-IBOC station. Small consolation I realize, but at least we know exactly where the enemy inflicts maximum damage.
 
BobOnTheJob said:
tfcwings said:
I'm only 7.7 miles from local 5kW 600 KOGO, which runs IBOC.
I can explain why 594 was clear. IBOC stations are generally operating with 5khz analog audio. That puts KOGO's analog from 595-600khz. With my Icom receiver in 3khz bandwidth, looking at 700 WLW (50KW huge signal at 90 miles), it's apparent that the first hint of IBOC starts at +/- 9khz with a full dose of it from about +/- 10 - 15khz. So anything in the +/- 5 - 8khz range from a local with IBOC will probably be cleaner than with a non-IBOC station. Small consolation I realize, but at least we know exactly where the enemy inflicts maximum damage.

Ahh. So 14 kHz from an IBOC station I shouldn't be able to get much DX, right?
Even so, I was able to hear 250kW 1566 HLAZ from JeJu, South Korea last month using my PL-606 & SAT. It was probably close to sunrise, and I'm about 300 miles west of 1580 KMIK (HD) Tempe, AZ, which puts a very strong signal in here at night, almost as strong as KOGO sometimes. In all fairness, though, it wasn't nearly as strong at that time of the morning.

Any idea, though, why I can't hear, even in the indicated 1 kHz bandwidth setting on my PL-606, hearing distant stations on first-adjacents near some strong non-IBOC locals? As a couple examples, at my house 9.3 miles south of 1170 KCBQ's transmitter site (as well as about 0.2 mile SSW of their site), I get no trace of 1180 KERN Wasco-Greenacres, CA, about 240-250 miles or so NNW of here. One early afternoon earlier this winter, though, I was able to hear them at home when KCBQ was briefly off the air. It was faint, though, due to fairly severe blocking/desense caused 10kW 1130 KSDO from 6.3 miles north of me.
Also at my grandma's house 1/3 mile SE of 23kW 1300 KAZN and 50kW 1430 KMRB, I get no trace of 1290 KKDD San Bernardino or 1440 KFNY Riverside through 1300 & 1430's splatter. :mad: Even some locals range from nearly unreadable to quite noisy under the extreme (indicating 50/00 from somewhere in the 1100s to 1500s, and 49/00 from somewhere in the 900s to the top of the band on the Tecsun PL-380 and Grundig G8 (I haven't taken the PL-606 there yet), including 1230 KYPA, 1260 KGIL, 1280 KFRN, 1330 KWKW, 1390 KLTX, 1460 KTYM, 1480 KVNR, 1580 KBLA and 1650 KFOX.
Is there a pocket "ultralight" radio that would reasonably be able to hear a distant station from 2x past radio-locator's predicted "fringe" contour with "armchair" copy (or whatever you call a signal that while it has some noise, its audio can be easily understood without needing headphones - I think a couple ULR-sized radios I've used would be sensitive enough if there were no local signals to interfere with the DX), even with a powerful non-IBOC local only 10kHz away in the same direction that on the Sony SRF-M37W is heard just as loud on every channel up to and beyond 500-600 kHz away as it is on its own channel? (I prefer to keep nulling tests separate from selectivity tests, btw, when checking the performance of radios. When I test nulling, I try to get a co-channel station out from under a local that's noise-free on a very un-sensitive radio when facing them. I prefer the local to be at least 500 mV/m, but can make do with one about 100 mV/m. When testing selectivity I'll try to hear a distant station (preferably below 0.1 mV/m) first-adjacent to a very strong (preferably at least 1000 mV/m but 200mV/m is ok too if nothing stronger is available) local 10kHz away, making no attempt to null them.)
 
Whether you can hear a station regularly beyond the R-L outer contour also depends on the Nighttime Interference Free Contour. This can vary from about 2 mV/m for very old well protected stations, to many above 25 mV/m Class Cs and newer Class Bs that are more than 25 mV/m, to one I read about that had an NIF of 100 mV/m, meaning most likely that a 5 mV/m interfering skywave is present 10% of the time. This could be from a highly directional 5 kW station aimed right at it to a typical 50 kW station a few hundred miles away. Then there are the stations that don't change to night facilities and may drive up the effective NIF much higher on the old time stations. In any event, I don't hear many stations even to the 0.5 mV/m at night, unless they are Class As, or skywave is nearly nonexistent. And that's without electrical noise.
 
Schroedingers Cat said:
Whether you can hear a station regularly beyond the R-L outer contour also depends on the Nighttime Interference Free Contour.  This can vary from about 2 mV/m for very old well protected stations, to many above 25 mV/m  Class Cs and newer Class Bs that are more than 25 mV/m, to one I read about that had an NIF of 100 mV/m, meaning most likely that a 5 mV/m interfering skywave is present 10% of the time.  This could be from a highly directional 5 kW station aimed right at it to a typical 50 kW station a few hundred miles away.  Then there are the stations that don't change to night facilities and may drive up the effective NIF much higher on the old time stations.  In any event, I don't hear many stations even to the 0.5 mV/m at night, unless they are Class As, or skywave is nearly nonexistent.  And that's without electrical noise.

I think I probably forgot to clarify that I was referring to midday groundwave reception when I was talking about stations beyond the R-L outer contour.  With 1170 KCBQ off the air one afternoon around 1:15, for example, I was able to faintly hear 1180 KERN even though I'm about 2x past their outer contour.  Also, I can faintly hear 960 KIXW from about 33% beyond their outer contour.  In both cases my PL-606 gets moderate (30,00 on 960 - 910 is about 69/25 or so) to somewhat severe (about 39/00 to 41/00 with KCBQ off - 1130 is about 76/25, and KCBQ when it's on is about 81/25) desense.  I've ran a test using a signal generator in another location / part of the band, and learned that level of desense is capable of completely blocking a signal that would otherwise be readily 100% copyable without needing headphones.
Speaking of NIF, how far out (distance) is the typical NIF on a Class C (graveyard)?  For example, I'm 11.2 miles east of 1240 KNSN San Diego, CA, and they own the channel here at night (although other stations can be faintly heard underneath if they're broadcasting an unmodulated carrier (for example Disney KALY Albuquerque several years ago) or if I null KNSN).  Is that the norm, or is it unusual, and if so, why?
Also, how is the NIF defined?  I've thought it was a range at which the signal was totally static free (with an apparent SNR as if you were within 5 miles of a 50kW into a 1/2-wave antenna low on the band over a saltwater path, using a large loop or beverage antenna (but not so strong that it's overloading your radio, distorting the audio on its frequency)), and there would be absolutely NO trace of other stations even if the local was broadcasting an unmodulated carrier and nulled (and I've been able to null a local by upwards of 67dB, and I suspect probably more, as that radio is already severely desensing at that signal level and probably should have been indicating much higher like maybe 100dBu (input to the antenna pin on the DSP chip, not actual field strength)).  Or, is it within the zone where other signals don't reach the same strength as the local, or somewhere between there?

Also, often at night I can sometimes hear a Spanish language station under 760 KFMB at night when I null them, even though their 50kW transmitter is only 7.3 miles northwest of me. Any idea who it could be? (Also would the presence of the other signal mean I'm outside KFMB's NIF?)
 
tfcwings said:
Schroedingers Cat said:
Whether you can hear a station regularly beyond the R-L outer contour also depends on the Nighttime Interference Free Contour. This can vary from about 2 mV/m for very old well protected stations, to many above 25 mV/m Class Cs and newer Class Bs that are more than 25 mV/m, to one I read about that had an NIF of 100 mV/m, meaning most likely that a 5 mV/m interfering skywave is present 10% of the time. This could be from a highly directional 5 kW station aimed right at it to a typical 50 kW station a few hundred miles away. Then there are the stations that don't change to night facilities and may drive up the effective NIF much higher on the old time stations. In any event, I don't hear many stations even to the 0.5 mV/m at night, unless they are Class As, or skywave is nearly nonexistent. And that's without electrical noise.

The 760 is likely in Mexico or Central America.

I think I probably forgot to clarify that I was referring to midday groundwave reception when I was talking about stations beyond the R-L outer contour. With 1170 KCBQ off the air one afternoon around 1:15, for example, I was able to faintly hear 1180 KERN even though I'm about 2x past their outer contour. Also, I can faintly hear 960 KIXW from about 33% beyond their outer contour. In both cases my PL-606 gets moderate (30,00 on 960 - 910 is about 69/25 or so) to somewhat severe (about 39/00 to 41/00 with KCBQ off - 1130 is about 76/25, and KCBQ when it's on is about 81/25) desense. I've ran a test using a signal generator in another location / part of the band, and learned that level of desense is capable of completely blocking a signal that would otherwise be readily 100% copyable without needing headphones.
Speaking of NIF, how far out (distance) is the typical NIF on a Class C (graveyard)? For example, I'm 11.2 miles east of 1240 KNSN San Diego, CA, and they own the channel here at night (although other stations can be faintly heard underneath if they're broadcasting an unmodulated carrier (for example Disney KALY Albuquerque several years ago) or if I null KNSN). Is that the norm, or is it unusual, and if so, why?
Also, how is the NIF defined? I've thought it was a range at which the signal was totally static free (with an apparent SNR as if you were within 5 miles of a 50kW into a 1/2-wave antenna low on the band over a saltwater path, using a large loop or beverage antenna (but not so strong that it's overloading your radio, distorting the audio on its frequency)), and there would be absolutely NO trace of other stations even if the local was broadcasting an unmodulated carrier and nulled (and I've been able to null a local by upwards of 67dB, and I suspect probably more, as that radio is already severely desensing at that signal level and probably should have been indicating much higher like maybe 100dBu (input to the antenna pin on the DSP chip, not actual field strength)). Or, is it within the zone where other signals don't reach the same strength as the local, or somewhere between there?

Also, often at night I can sometimes hear a Spanish language station under 760 KFMB at night when I null them, even though their 50kW transmitter is only 7.3 miles northwest of me. Any idea who it could be? (Also would the presence of the other signal mean I'm outside KFMB's NIF?)

A good sensitve radio can get 25 uV/m AM signals barefoot in an electrically quiet environment. The outer contour is 150 uV/m predicted. You can hear cochannels inside the NIF with no modulation or low mod.
 
??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???


Can I ask a question ??


Car Radios.




Many seem to love their old 'factory' radio that came with the car.




Buy a new radio. Aftermarket.



Where o Where are the specs ??


If you research every one of them they list very brief specs in the manual. ya know...the stuff sold at the 'big box stores', etc.


AM SENSITIVITY :::::::::::::::::::: They all say .30uv...some may be in upper 20's...



What exactly does that mean ? A 1kw signal you can hear for 10 kilometers or ?
 
Yes, 0.3 µV is a rather decent sensitivity for an AM tuner in a car stereo, but what Signal-to-Noise ratio does the radio produce with a 0.3 µV signal present at the frequency you're tuned to? Also important is the selectivity. If the tuner is poor at separating channels then high sensitivity may be a disadvantage, because stronger stations will tend to bleed over onto an adjacent channel(s).

Many of the car stereo manufacturers are more likely to give more detail for their FM tuner specifications than for their AM tuner. Perhaps an automotive electronics website/magazine or even Consumer Reports may have tested car stereos. If there is a decent car stereo store (independent, not a big-box store like Best Buy if you can avoid stores like that) in your area, it would be best to try the radios out for yourself in the store (assuming the store has made the effort to ensure decent FM and AM reception) to see how they perform. Then, write down the model number(s) of the radio(s) you're interested in, say thanks and find a better price online than at the store. Crutchfield.com might have some specs to compare side-by-side.

I have an Alpine in one of my vehicles (Honda) and the other is a factory radio (with RBDS) in my Ford. I have decent reception on both, so no need to change the radio on either, I'm satisfied with their reception. Some remarks from the blog from which the comment below was made said, 'make sure your antenna is functioning at its best efficiency'. Sometimes reception has gradually deteriorated over time because an antenna has become weathered, or the connections have possibly weakened. Of course, many of today's vehicles have in-glass antennas so that may not be an issue. Many of today's vehicles also have a densely packed dashboard, so if you're thinking of attempting to replace the radio yourself, read up on what's involved in installing a car stereo first. You may find it worthwhile (and a lot less frustrating) to have the new radio installed professionally.

"A few years ago when I worked in the Car Audio industry, we did some radio reception comparisons among manufacturers. The clear winner in this field was Alpine closely followed by Pioneer. Of course there were some variance in models (you get what you pay for at the end of the day) but in comparable models and price points Alpine was the model to go for Radio reception, they also had one of the better CD mechanisms as well."

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=48&topicid=18572

shepaug said:
What exactly does that mean ? A 1kw signal you can hear for 10 kilometers or ?

Well, it could be only 6 miles or so if the station is at the high end of the AM band, highly directional, and most of the signal is "screened" or aimed away from your listening location. A 1kW omnidirectional AM station should be audible from over 200 miles on the low end (like 550kHz) on the AM band, dropping to just over 100 miles (near 1000 kHz), but only about 50-75 miles on the high end of the band (1600 kHz). This is for groundwave, daytime.

I think what you may be trying to say is how is the sensitivity of a radio related to a radio station's signal contour? Well, they're somewhat related. The signal contours are the expected reach of the station's signal out to varying distances, depending on station power, frequency, efficiency of the transmitting tower/s, whether it's omnidirectional or directional, ground conductivity, and several other factors. There comes a point where the signal is gone, and no tuner, no matter how sensitive, will "hear" that signal. But, it's always a good idea to have the most sensitive tuner than you can get (with reason of cost and practicality) That way, you can hear more stations, further away from their transmitters. More sensitive tuners will certainly make up for weaker stations...up to a point.

Though I might not trust radio-locator.com 100% of the time on their signal contour maps, these maps may give one a fair idea of what to expect on signal range from a given station. A decent AM tuner in a car stereo ought to be able to hear out to the purple, or "distant" contour in the daytime. At night, depending on the frequency, and how many stations might occupy that frequency at night, the results may differ considerably from the nighttime contour map for each station. On the higher end of the AM band, and depending on the ground conductivity, the contour maps for daytime reception may be a bit generous IMHO as to how far the distant signal contour goes out. Like the disclaimer says: "your results may vary".
 
My car radio quit.


I am only familiar with car radios that come with the cars and not 'after-market'.

(I can recall buying some cheapie one time and it stunk)

I am so obsolete I have not even driven a 'recent' car such as if you rented one, etc.


-- BUT the original factory radios have a reputation of being good (?) with sensitivity and I presume reasonable selectivity....

Tales say 'after-market' radios can STINK.


Look for specs. Where ? The have a million 'bells and whistles' and the promotion will only say: AM/FM tuner.


I found this site which has many manuals.


http://www.retrevo.com/samples/index.html



It takes time to review but almost every manual will eventually list AM sensitivity. Most as said will say 30uv or slightly under.


I am an old time listener of radio and it might sound wacky but if I have a radio that stinks on AM I don't want it. I still enjoy just sitting in a car and going over the AM dial. If there is not reasonable sensitivity I'm not going to hear much 'days'. Even at night. Yes and I understand AM RADIO is maybe about dead but I still enjoy listening to distance stations day and night.



In FCC data the stations will feed the FCC uv information. So many uv/m at so and so distance.


I was trying to figure out how this relates to the radios specified sensitivity.



If 30uv on a radio meant I would get stations within the 'fringe zone' on those radio-locator charts fine !!!!!


Buy any radio 2011. (now don't know about car radios). Boom-Boxes..portables...etc. Most all are terrible !!!!!!! literally On those radio-locator' charts your lucky if you receive a station within its highest signal strength zone. (red on charts ?) FM ? if your sitting under their antenna ?


For anything decent you have to buy names like Sangean, Eton/Grundig, C Crane, etc. They even took the old GE Super-Radio portable and labeled it RCA and cut costs until it is/was worthless.

ok http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WIKE&service=AM&status=L&hours=U


So your saying if all were correct 30uv would receive the signal out to the second set and not the 'fringe' on the above link ?



I realize antennas matter and ground conductivity. This part of USA that stinks. (Connecticut)


I'm just trying to digest how good/bad a car radio is if they are saying ...30uv for AM and that is all




I'm not even in pursuit of 'audio quality'. OR how good it sounds


I hate non-sensitive radios. --
 
Remeber that uV sensitivity and uV/m sensitivity are not the same thing. Even a field strength meter for AM usually has a sensitivity of 10 uV/m for 6 dB S/N.
 
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