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Great business plan for Crawford
- Thread starter Word!
- Start date
Word! said:
I don't know if Crawford has the money to buy a station licensed to Chicago. It seems that most of the stations they own are in medium & small markets that are licensed to the main city itself (except for Detroit, which is a top 20 market). For California, KBRT is licensed to Avalon California, & their night time signal barely reaches the California coast at night, due to a whimpy 113 watts (has 10kw during the day). The tower array is on an island off the coasts of Long Beach & Huntington Beach. KCBC is licensed to Manteca California (near Modesto) and it barely covers San Francisco at night with 4.1kw, but is 50kw during the day.
So unless the value of Chicago stations (including stations licensed to the suburbs, but have their transmitters in Chicago) have gone down, I don't see Crawford being able to afford any stations. I don't know if Bonneville would try to buy any of the Emmis stations (including buying back WLUP, which they sold to Emmis for 3 of Emmis's stations in the Phoenix AZ market), if they went up for sale. Crawford would need deep pockets if they want to buy any of Emmis' stations if they went up for sale. I can say this; Q101's format would be immediately dropped if under Crawford. If The Loop were to be sold to Crawford, it's possible their format would be dropped as well. Except for 2 Chicago stations, most Crawford stations have a religious theme to their stations. Those that aren't religious themed are conservative talk. So WPWX & WSRB for Chicagoland & WYRB (simulcast of WSRB) in Genoa are the only stations that aren't talk or religious.
I have always have been curious about something regarding 92.3 FM.
Why have they not ever upgraded the xmtr site, and moved it to
the Hancock Center or Sears Tower in Chicago after all of there years.
I think the class of station they are would allow that.
Old Chicago
Why have they not ever upgraded the xmtr site, and moved it to
the Hancock Center or Sears Tower in Chicago after all of there years.
I think the class of station they are would allow that.
Old Chicago
OldChicago said:
They're already short-spaced with WCPT-FM, but might not be the issue. I believe the reason they haven't located on a Chicago skyscraper might have to do with WEZY on 92.1 from Racine Wisconsin. They're also short-spaced with Dekalb's WCPY on 92.5. So if they were to locate on a Chicago skyscraper, they would have to have sharper nulls toward Wisconsin & Dekalb to protect WEZY & WCPY. But I don't know if WPWX signed on under the current rules, or signed on before 1964. If they signed on under the current rules, then they can't locate in downtown Chicago. I know WCPT-FM is a pre-1964 station, but they're short-spaced with WCPY (92.5), WPWX (92.3), & WKIF (92.7) that they can't upgrade any further, nor move their transmitter. Now if Newsweb were to sell their FM stations later on, Crawford could buy them & sell 102.3 to have 50kw 99.9 & use WCPT-FM as a simulcast for WPWX. That's only if Newsweb were to sell their FM stations.
Rick B. said:
If Crawford has the money, they probably could locate in downtown Chicago & cover Chicago better than they do now. They still would have to protect WEZY on 92.1 from Racine Wisconsin (transmitter in Franksville along I-94), WCPY Dekalb, and maybe 92.1 WHPD Dowagiac Michigan, though I believe they're far enough to not create any real interference. I just wonder what might be keeping Crawford from exploring that option, unless they're happy with their signal as is.
Crawford is a family owned business that is an enigma of sorts. They've always marched to their own drummer. No doubt the formats in Chicago, keep the preachin and teachin alive on their other properties.
They are reasonably progressive when it comes to engineering. Click on the link and scroll down to download their monthly engineering newsletter, "The Local Oscillator."
http://www.crawfordbroadcasting.com/engineering.htm
They are reasonably progressive when it comes to engineering. Click on the link and scroll down to download their monthly engineering newsletter, "The Local Oscillator."
http://www.crawfordbroadcasting.com/engineering.htm
Here's the story with 92.3 being stuck where it is:
Yes, it's a pre-1964 allocation, and yes, so is 92.7 in Arlington Heights. So if the issue were just those two stations, they could move as close to each other as they'd like - even co-located - without breaking the FCC's rules, because those rules say there is no second-adjacent protection between two pre-1964 grandfathered signals.
But those two stations operate on a dial that's crowded by plenty of other newer signals. Start with 92.5 in DeKalb: even if it's also pre-1964, which I believe it is, the rules are different for first-adjacent stations. Two grandfathered first-adjacent stations can move, but the net amount of interference between them can't increase. So moving 92.3 into Chicago would have to be balanced out by moving 92.5 somewhere further west to avoid creating any additional interference - and making that move means you start dealing with spacings to plenty of other stations out there beyond Chicago.
(92.7, meanwhile, has a different additional limitation on moving closer to Chicago: the FCC's rules on IF [intermediate-frequency] interference require it to keep a certain distance from WKSC on 103.5.)
Then there's 91.9 in Joliet, which isn't grandfathered with respect to 92.3.
Without taking the time to do a full study on WPWX, I'm pretty sure the biggest factors keeping it from moving in would be 92.5 in De Kalb and 91.9 in Joliet. I don't think the Wisconsin stations on 92.1 or 92.5 are insurmountable obstacles, but protecting De Kalb and Joliet probably makes a move into Chicago impossible.
Yes, it's a pre-1964 allocation, and yes, so is 92.7 in Arlington Heights. So if the issue were just those two stations, they could move as close to each other as they'd like - even co-located - without breaking the FCC's rules, because those rules say there is no second-adjacent protection between two pre-1964 grandfathered signals.
But those two stations operate on a dial that's crowded by plenty of other newer signals. Start with 92.5 in DeKalb: even if it's also pre-1964, which I believe it is, the rules are different for first-adjacent stations. Two grandfathered first-adjacent stations can move, but the net amount of interference between them can't increase. So moving 92.3 into Chicago would have to be balanced out by moving 92.5 somewhere further west to avoid creating any additional interference - and making that move means you start dealing with spacings to plenty of other stations out there beyond Chicago.
(92.7, meanwhile, has a different additional limitation on moving closer to Chicago: the FCC's rules on IF [intermediate-frequency] interference require it to keep a certain distance from WKSC on 103.5.)
Then there's 91.9 in Joliet, which isn't grandfathered with respect to 92.3.
Without taking the time to do a full study on WPWX, I'm pretty sure the biggest factors keeping it from moving in would be 92.5 in De Kalb and 91.9 in Joliet. I don't think the Wisconsin stations on 92.1 or 92.5 are insurmountable obstacles, but protecting De Kalb and Joliet probably makes a move into Chicago impossible.
Scott Fybush said:
I forgot all about WJCH possibly being an issue. Based on the current coverage of both WJCH & WPWX, both stations already have a lot of overlap in their primary contours. While I did bring up 92.5 out of Dekalb, I however never brought up WBWI 92.5 out of West Bend Wisconsin. That station is well north of Milwaukee & wouldn't even be an issue. I only brought up WEZY out of Racine on 92.1, because WEZY's primary contour reaches the state line, and the secondary contour goes as far down as Waukegan. So I believe 92.1 from Racine would have to be factored in, since it's a first ajacent close enough to the Chicago market.
Dave said:
Pretty interesting subject here! However, as usual, I am pretty sure that Scott is right on this one. You may be confusing the contours of Radio-Locator and others with the 60 dbu protected contour which is the one that counts. Also, living north of the city, I can tell you that WEZY is actually not one of the best Milwaukee market signals when it comes to signal strength south of the border. From my location in Lake County (literally on a straight line between Chicago and Milwaukee), WLWK 94.5 (which is 1st adjacent to WLS-FM); WQBW 97.3 (or whatever it's calls are now - 1st adjacent to WDRV) and WKLH 96.5 (1st adjacent to WBBM-FM) are stronger than the much lower powered WEZY.
Not to mention that the FCC had no heartburn at all about plopping an FM translator in downtown Chicago (W264BF) on 100.7 with 2 watts at a whopping 2,044' MSL despite the existence of WKKV (V-100.7) - a signal who's protected contour travels much closer to Chicago than WEZY or the others. Those 2 watts actually get out pretty far at that height. I am still shocked that this was permitted, by the way.
Granted, the low powered station involves a different regulatory scenario, but it goes to show that Milwaukee area signals are farther down the list when it comes to potential interference with Chicago stations than those from exurbs in Illinois and NW Indiana. And, W264BF still does far more to interfere with WKKV at my location than the much stronger WPWX does to the weaker WEZY (if that makes sense).
Dave said:
Didn't 97.1 go for 165Million in 2000? I'm wondering what the price would be for the Emmis stations. I mentioned picking up at least one of the Emmis stations simply because I think that Crawford actually has the $$$. I'd believe that most of their stations are paid for, been paid for, but especially the chicago stations. If I remember right, when they bought 106.3 in 1997 it was 7 million, and when you think about the 92's from Big City went for 22Mil to SBS and then 29Mil to Newsweb, they paid a PRICE for 106.3! But I'd say after 13 years of brokered, advertising and other things, i'm sure thats been paid for and making money. And of course 92.3 has been paid for since the 60's and going mainstream for 9 years and having a 2-share from having NO Share when they were WYCA doesn't make you broke. Unless the company has been taking loans and are deep in debt, but I couldn't see that.
I don't think Newsweb would sell their stations.
Of course Crawford is brokered religious overall in all of their markets except Chicago, and the one reason they went mainstream in Chicago originally was not enough revenue and too much competition, I'd say including competition within their own cluster as well as then WGCI-AM (WGRB) and possibly at that time WVON.
Soon they're flipping 106 to Hip hop, 92.3 will become R&B. I would rather like to see a R&B station on Q101 to directly go against V103 and leave 92.3 as it is. Either way, even if they made Power 101, it would have to be done right, and be done DIFFERENTLY than how they copied alot of what WGCI does.
Radio One did it in St Louis. R&B went to 95.5 and then they picked up 104 from emmis and made that Hip Hop and Clear Channel backed out of the format. Crawford needs one more major stick, and they "could" have a nice cluster.
(and still....... change the WPWX imaging!)
Scott Fybush said:
I did the math on this.. Assuming a transmitter on the John Hancock... and assuming use of contour protection under 73.215...
If 92.7/92.3 were *not* pre-1964 grandfathered signals.. 92.7 would be a problem for this upgrade UNLESS 92.3 downgraded to Class A in the process. As a 2nd-adjacent Class A, 29km minimum separation would be required -- the John Hancock is 40km from the existing 92.7 transmitter site. If 92.3 remained Class B, 67km of separation would be required; if it downgraded to Class B1, 46km would be necessary.
And this is the problem; downgrading 92.3 would not loosen the restrictions enough to make it fit. It would, however, come awfully close... The 92.5 transmitter is 94km from the John Hancock. First-adjacent separation requirements, if 92.3 remains Class B, is 145km. If 92.3 downgrades to Class B1, 114km is required. If it downgrades to A, 96km is enough. 92.5 would have to move just over a mile to the west.
**I think** (didn't spend quite as much time on this) that there's nothing -- in the way of other stations -- to prevent 92.5 from making that move. I don't know the lay of the land in DeKalb -- whether there is a plausible transmitter site a mile or so west of the existing site.
====================================
Next, we hit the point where I get over my head.....
To be fully spaced, 92.3 (as a Class A) and 92.5 must be 113km apart. Using 73.215 contour protection, the closest they can be is 96km.
By my reading of 73.215, the 64dBu F(50,50) contour of 92.5 **assuming it's running class-maximum 50kw/150m** may not be intersected by the 58dBu F(50,10) contour of 92.3.
The 64dBu F(50,50) contour of a 50kw/150m station extends 44km.
So the 58dBu F(50,10) contour of 92.3A could not exceed 52km. (or it would intersect 92.5's 64dBu) As a maximum-facility Class A on the John Hancock, 370w/399m, 92.3's 58dBu F(50,10) would extend 34.6km. Without doing anything to reduce its signal in the direction of 92.5, 92.3's signal would come nowhere close to prohibited overlap with 92.5's.
I think I'm missing something in this point.
====================================
Now, the next step... is that the city-of-license would have to change. If 92.3 is to downgrade to Class A, it will no longer be able to deliver a city-grade signal to Hammond. By my calculations, if 92.3 were to share the WXRT antenna (I forget what other stations are also on that antenna right now...) at 399m HAAT, it would be allowed 370 watts ERP. The 70dBu city-grade contour would extend 16.05km. The reference coordinates of Griffith, Indiana (next town southeast of Hammond) are 44.1km from the John Hancock. 92.3 Class A on the Hancock would come nowhere near providing 70dBu across all of Hammond. (I'm not so sure it would provide 70dBu across *any* of Hammond!)
Since there is an AM station (WJOB-1230) licensed to Hammond, the FCC would allow you to change 92.3's city of license. You'd have to find something such that the entire community lies within 16km of the John Hancock. Cicero, Oak Park, Forest Park, Berwyn, Stickney. Chicago might be the obvious choice, but a Class A station cannot provide a city-grade signal across all of Chicago. The city is too (geographically) large.
(Scott, I forget: would they have to choose a city that doesn't already have at least one station? Of the five I mention above, three have AM stations and one has an FM..)
====================================
If I *am* missing something, about needing to limit the signal to something less than Class A maximum in the direction of 92.5, then things are going to get pretty tight in the city-of-license area. Since all the alternative cities-of-license lie due west of the transmitter, and even with full Class A facilities, they just barely fall within the city-grade coverage. If the signal due west of the transmitter has to be pulled back from full Class A, then it's possible no community exists that falls entirely within the city-grade coverage of the station.
====================================
So...
*MAYBE* they could do it. They would have to:
- Downgrade to Class A.
- Arrange to move 92.5 about 1.2 miles due west.
- Change the city of license to something just slightly west of the Chicago city limits.
- Hope that any power reduction necessary to comply with contour protection doesn't pull in the city-grade contours too tightly to cover even the closest suburbs, leaving them with no available alternate city of license.
I don't think WJCH is a problem, at least not if 73.215 is used. It's 76km from the Loop and by my figures only 71km is required even if 92.3 remains a Class B. The Wisconsin station on 92.5 is nearly 180km away (it's roughly 25 miles northwest of Milwaukee) with 145km required. 92.1 is closer to being a problem but isn't a problem -- it's almost 100km from the Loop, with 96km required. (the 92.1 transmitter is somewhat to the north of Racine)
While I don't fully understand what you typed, I understand enough that certain stations do pose a problem in 92.3 being able to move into Chicago. Looking on the FCC website with 92.3's directional pattern, it already has a big null to the west to protect 92.5 Dekalb. I still believe if 92.3 were transmitting from Chicago, WEZY would still be an issue as the contours would be pushing it. Since Chicago stations are more than 1100 ft. in the air, Chicago stations go out further, even with the much lower power than Milwaukee & suburban stations with mostly lower sticks, but higher power. As for 92.5, I remember BCR at one time wanted to downgrade 92.5's signal along with changing the frequency to 92.7. The FCC denied both requests. I just wonder about downdrading 92.5's signal, but not change frequencies (if Crawford acquired 92.5 from Newsweb). I wonder if that would make it fit. But if Crawford acquired 92.5, Crawford would most likely use that signal to promote a new format to the Rockford Market, like what they're planning to do with WYRB, now that that station is breaking off their simulcast from WSRB.
Now when I looked at 92.5, there might be an issue with moving 92.5 closer to 92.1 in Freeport, IL & 92.3 Peoria. As Scott mentioned, it could pose a problem relocating some stations. An example was when 100.3 WIFE-FM was a 28kw Class B licensed to Connersville Indiana. The owner sold their FM, got the station relocated into the Cincinnati market (don't know how that happened, but it did) to the suburb of Norwood, downgraded the station to a 6kw Class A eqivalent, & had to get the station in Erlanger, KY to change their frequency from 100.9 to 101.1. I don't remember if any other stations had to be moved or have their frequencies changed.
Now when I looked at 92.5, there might be an issue with moving 92.5 closer to 92.1 in Freeport, IL & 92.3 Peoria. As Scott mentioned, it could pose a problem relocating some stations. An example was when 100.3 WIFE-FM was a 28kw Class B licensed to Connersville Indiana. The owner sold their FM, got the station relocated into the Cincinnati market (don't know how that happened, but it did) to the suburb of Norwood, downgraded the station to a 6kw Class A eqivalent, & had to get the station in Erlanger, KY to change their frequency from 100.9 to 101.1. I don't remember if any other stations had to be moved or have their frequencies changed.
No Dave, the biggest obstacles for moving/upgrading WPWX (as explained by w9wi and Mr. Fybush) are 92.5 in DeKalb and 91.9 in Joliet. 92.1 in Racine is a class A and is too far north to have any impact whatsoever in this process - as I and others explained above. Their protected contour and that of a Chicago-based WPWX wouldn't even touch. On the other hand, such a move would adversely impact 92.5 and 91.9.
Because this region has so many signals on basically every frequency, there's not much room to add/move signals around without impacting several others in the process. Move 92.3 to Chicago and you have to adjust 92.5's location a bit westward to keep adequate separation. Do that, and other signals farther west are impacted. It's a domino effect because they are all squeezed in like puzzle pieces.
But, as already stated, WEZY would be the least of Crawford's problems for such a scenario.
Because this region has so many signals on basically every frequency, there's not much room to add/move signals around without impacting several others in the process. Move 92.3 to Chicago and you have to adjust 92.5's location a bit westward to keep adequate separation. Do that, and other signals farther west are impacted. It's a domino effect because they are all squeezed in like puzzle pieces.
But, as already stated, WEZY would be the least of Crawford's problems for such a scenario.
All this research and speculation of what Crawford could do with 92.3 is great mental exercise. I know Crawfords Corporate Engineer he is a very wise and knowledgeable person. Trust me, if it was worth their while to move the station to the Hancock or Sears Tower they would have done it long ago. :
BRNout said:
I'm having trouble finding any problems with the very modest move 92.5 would have to make for a 92.3A to work, and I'm also having trouble finding a problem with 91.9.
That said, it is very possible I'm missing something.
Anyway, Crawford is known for having knowledgeable engineers. If they haven't already done this, it's because either I missed something & it's not technically possible, or I didn't miss anything and it just doesn't make economic sense....
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