Great CHR Idea...Will Vegas Ever See Something Like This?

[iknowpeople]

www.live1045.com

So here is their gimmick...Top 40 station with a street-side studio...and a "Radio Cafe" next door. The cafe is station owned, with coffee and stuff like that, and a window where you can watch the DJ...the DJ can (if they want) go into the cafe and talk it up with listeners, etc.

Minus the fact that there are obvious safety concerns for the DJ's, this is an incredible idea. CHR's require an IMMENSE amount of interactivity, and I think they are onto something.

Someone remind me why there is top Top 40 in Vegas?

 

[Jay F]

The most recent station to try CHR/Pop in Las Vegas was 101.9 KISS FM between 2000-2002. Nobody has wanted to do the format since,

Both KMXB and KLUC are on the border of Top 40. MIX plays the pop and rock songs from the CHR chart. KLUC plays mostly rhythmic pop. Most of the artists that KLUC plays can be heard on CHR/Pop, in fact they are musically very close to KIIS/LA.

So it could be argued that between MIX and KLUC CBS has Top 40 covered in Las Vegas. However, if a mainstream CHR ever did come on CBS would be in a vulnerable position. KMXB would be sandwiched between CHR/Pop and the new STAR 102.7. KLUC would be squeezed between the new station and HOT 97.5. There is also PARTY playing artists like Justin Timberlake and Pussycat Dolls. A top 40 would fragment the market to extreme proportions.

There is a much bigger hole for a young end Hispanic station than a mainstream Top 40. The #1 18-34 station 103.5 KISF has a massive share, it's larger than the #2 and #3 18-34 stations (HOT and KLUC) combined!!!

 

[iknowpeople]

No, no...I know exactly where things are in the market.

Mix is close to Top 40 on the rock side...KLUC is close to Top 40 on the rap side...Party and Star are close on the pop/dance side...but no one seems to be in the middle.

CHR is KILLING nationwide right now...to have a CHR that could play both rock and rap with their pop wouldn't hurt. There is no station in this market that would play Rihanna and Panic! At The Disco...thats a problem. So the average 18-24 demo has a few stations they flick between...if a CHR entered this market, it would send sparks flying.

My main point to make was with that station in particular (KQQB)...completely out of the box thinking for this day in age...

 

[Jay F]

Thanks for sharing about KQQB. But like you first said the radio cafe is their gimmick. It might be out of the box, but it isn't taking them very far as they rank as the #22 station in Spokane and are below a 1 share.

I don't know if I would call it a problem that we don't have a Top 40/Pop station in Las Vegas. It was tried in the not too distant past and didn't do that great, high cume with very low TSL and very young demos (it thrived in teens but not 18-34). I thought KISS was a good sounding station, If Top 40/Pop didn't succeed five years it probably wouldn't now, if anything the format was hotter back then as it was the tail end of the boy band era.

I can remember when CHR truly was killing nationwide. In the "hot hits" era from around 1983-1987 most markets had two or three CHRs. Many top 40s were ranked #1 and some were in double digits. Of course it was a much less fragmented world back then. Today, the results are mixed. Top 40/Pop especially has problems in this part of the country, although there are exceptions. Here is how the format ranks 12+ in other Western top 100 markets. Of course we all know the format does best in the youngest demos.

2. KIIS/Los Angeles ranks #2. Top 40 purists hate this station. They are basically a rhythmic that plays one rock song an hour. This is why they are so successful, a few years ago when they played "all the hits" they had their worst numbers ever.

4. San Francisco. Top 40/Pop does not exist. It's been tried a few times over the past 15 years and always fails. I think you would have to go way back to the KFRC-AM days to find the last time Top 40 thrived in the Bay area and even that station played more rhythmic/disco than the U.S average.

14. Seattle:KBKS ranks #17. The last time Top 40/Pop did good in Seattle was in the 1980s/early 90s when KPLZ was #1. Then in 1992 KUBE went rhythmic, many market observers were so naive that they actually thought KUBE was crazy to go rhythmic in one of the least ethnic large markets. To their shock, KUBE instantly beat KPLZ and Sea-Tac has never been a good Top40 market since.

15. Phoenix: KZZP ranks #14. They are currently at the lowest level I ever remember. Top 40 is a tough format in the Southwest.

17. San Diego:KHTS ranks #5. A success, but leans rhythmic. They are similar to KIIS/LA, not too different than KLUC.

22.Denver: Top 40/pop does not exist. Similar to Las Vegas, Clear Channel was the last to try it there with a "KIIS FM". I think you would have to go back to the 1980s and the old Y108 to find the last time mainstream top 40 did well in the Mile High city.

24.Portland: KKRZ ranks #6. Z100 has recently made a comeback after several years of ratings trouble. Portland is one of the whitest large markets which works to the formats advantage.

26.Sacramento: KDND ranks #9.

27.Riverside-San Bernardino. The Inland Empire doesn't have a local CHR, but (an extremely rhythmic) KIIS makes a decent showing.

31.Salt Lake: KZHT ranks #9.

34. San Jose: CHR/Pop doesn't exist, I don't think it has since KWSS in the 80s. I remember in the late 80s when HOT 97.7 came on with a dance format aimed at Hispanic teen females. Almost everything HOT played could not be found on the national CHR chart, yet they instantly destroyed KWSS. This must have confused KWSS who was "playing by the rules". This is a great and rare example of out of the box thinking that really had an impact.

61.Tucson:KRQQ ranks #3. An example of a consistently successful Southwestern Top 40. This station has been around forever, so listeners know what the station is all about.

63.Honolulu: I don't think they have a CHR/Pop (maybe somebody that knows the market could confirm this), every now and then a station tries and fails with mainstream. the last I heard there are three rhythmics in Honolulu.

66. Fresno: Just a few days ago the markets only Top 40/Pop switched to AC Y101.1. Fresno has long been known as a tough market for CHR/Pop. As far back as the late 80s Fresno had 3 "CHR/Dance" stations and no mainstream top 40.

70. Albuqurque: KKOB-FM ranks #2. This has got to be the best example for anyone that takes the position that Top 40 could work in Vegas. ALBQ is an extremely over-radioed and fragmented market, Yet Top 40 is thriving. Top 40 purists would approve of this station too because they lean pop/Hot AC, not rhythmic. This station smashes the conventional wisdom that mainstream doesn't work in heavily Hispanic markets, however many ALBQ Hispanics have lived in the area for several generations, it's the most English dominant Hispanic market in the U.S.

#78 Bakersfield:Top 40/Pop does not exist

#80 Montery-Salinas:Top 40/Pop does not exist

#81 Stockton Top 40/Pop does not exist

#93 Spokane: The station you mentioed KQQB ranks #22. Are they signal challenged??

#100 Visalia-Tulare: Basically a part of the Fresno area, Top 40/Pop does not exist.

I guess my main point is that Las Vegas is not that unusual, especially in this region of the country, for not having a mainstream Top 40.

 

[iknowpeople]

Well they have just flipped from a Rhythmic CHR and just put up a 100k stick...so their true colors have yet to be seen. I love their idea though and think they are showing something that is very rare in radio these days...an original idea.

Las Vegas, and a handful of other markets, don't have top 40's, including San Francisco. But from everything I have heard about Kiss and Z in San Francisco (both now defunct), they were great at the beginning, and then decisions in the programming department made things start a downward spiral.

If you look at markets like Boston, where WXKS is 3rd 12+, or Portland, ME, where WJBQ is #1 12+, or WPRO in Providence, RI (4th 12+), or New York where Z100 is .1 away from being in a tie for 3rd (yeah, I might be an east coaster...can you tell? haha)

KIIS is a great station, but I totally agree, it is one song an hour and a new airstaff away from being a full-blown rhythmic station.

A HUGE chunk of Las Vegas' population is under 25. Immense. This is a young town that likes to party (cliche, yeah, but its true! there is alotta youth in the market). There is no reason a Top 40 shouldnt survive here, other than the fact that some programmers just don't know how to pull it off.

The key to a good CHR is to have the multi-demo appeal of a station like Mix. Kiss 108 in Boston does that amazingly...the morning show pulls in great numbers across the board...

I'm telling ya, if I won Megabucks (maybe I should start playing if I intend to win) the first thing I would do is buy a station as a little experiment. I could be dead wrong, of course, but something tells me if you create a station that can balance pop, rock and hiphop and can morph as people's tastes do...you'd shake up the market greatly.

But what do I know. I Know People, not Programming

 

[iknowpeople]

One more point before I put on my sweatshirt (ITS FREAKIN COLD)...I tend to throw "this region of the country" out the window when it comes to this market...this city is EVERY region of the country. Thus the fact no one knows how to drive.

That being said, you've got Californians here. You've got New Englanders here. You've got Texans here. It's all over the place. Every 8 seconds, someone new moves here. Every 8 seconds, the definition of what works/could work changes a fraction of a percent.

 

[Jay F]

You said that Las Vegas is a young town with a huge chunk of the population that's under 25. It might surprise you that our median age is 35.1 which is close to the U.S average and slightly older than nearby markets like Los Angeles(33.7) San Diego(34.5) and Phoenix (34.0). Las Vegas is very similar to the U.S average in age. The only thing unusual about the demographics of Las Vegas is that we are one of the only markets with more males than females in the population.

As I studied the median ages of various markets I came to an unexpected conclusion. CHR/Pop tends to do better in markets with older, not younger populations. You mentioned the success of WXKS in Boston. Well Boston has one of the older median populations (38.6). The entire Northeast is older than the median and CHR tends to do great there. There is also a successful CHR (WFLZ) in the oldest large market Tampa-St Pete (median age 41.5).

The youngest median age I could find was El Paso (30.5) and CHR/Pop doesnt exist there. The central valley in California is also very young and pretty much a land without mainsteam top 40.

Why would there be a negative correlation between young markets and CHR/Pop? It's really not that surprising when you consider that most of the youngest markets have large Hispanic populations. CHR/Rhy (and quasi rhythmics such as KIIS/Los Angeles) are much more popular among Hispanics than CHR/Pop.

Hispanics make up a large percentage of the under 35 population in Las Vegas. It's almost impossible to do well here 18-34 unless you have some Hispanic appeal. Spanish language and Rhythmic dominate the 18-34 ratings. Consider that KWID (PRECIOSA) plays mostly old mexican music and they are #5 18-34 and beat all the rock stations in that demo. A CHR/Pop would be at a major disadvantage because it would have limited ethnic appeal, not to mention that many young whites will still listen to hip hop even if Top 40 became an option. That's one of the reasons both KLUC and HOT do so great in the younger demos, they attract young listeners of all races and ethnic backgrounds. That's vital considering LV is a worldwide melting pot.

I do admire your enthusiasm iknowpeople. I'm actually not totally closed to the idea of Top 40 in Vegas. If it sounded really hot it has the potential to shake things up a little.

 

[iknowpeople]

Damnit Jay! I can't get one past you hahaha

I'm just thrilled we are having a conversation on here that isnt regarding KXNT or KDWN. LOL...

I know that the Las Vegas school system is one of the largest in the nation...and there are a huge chunk of teens/pre-teens.

The Vegas market is jaded about CHR/Pop...obviously. I'd love to see the market shake up a bit though.

 

[jailart]

The Hungry Eye night club in SF had a studio for kgo and a number of stations had street side studios back is the 60-70's..

..they better have thick bullet proof glass if they try the concept again, given the fact that radio stations are a wacko magnet...hardly anyone puts there name on their stick anymore.

 

[icycool7227]

Thanks for sharing about KQQB. But like you first said the radio cafe is their gimmick. It might be out of the box, but it isn't taking them very far as they rank as the #22 station in Spokane and are below a 1 share.

I don't know if I would call it a problem that we don't have a Top 40/Pop station in Las Vegas. It was tried in the not too distant past and didn't do that great, high cume with very low TSL and very young demos (it thrived in teens but not 18-34). I thought KISS was a good sounding station, If Top 40/Pop didn't succeed five years it probably wouldn't now, if anything the format was hotter back then as it was the tail end of the boy band era.

I can remember when CHR truly was killing nationwide. In the "hot hits" era from around 1983-1987 most markets had two or three CHRs. Many top 40s were ranked #1 and some were in double digits. Of course it was a much less fragmented world back then. Today, the results are mixed. Top 40/Pop especially has problems in this part of the country, although there are exceptions. Here is how the format ranks 12+ in other Western top 100 markets. Of course we all know the format does best in the youngest demos.

2. KIIS/Los Angeles ranks #2. Top 40 purists hate this station. They are basically a rhythmic that plays one rock song an hour. This is why they are so successful, a few years ago when they played "all the hits" they had their worst numbers ever.

4. San Francisco. Top 40/Pop does not exist. It's been tried a few times over the past 15 years and always fails. I think you would have to go way back to the KFRC-AM days to find the last time Top 40 thrived in the Bay area and even that station played more rhythmic/disco than the U.S average.

14. Seattle:KBKS ranks #17. The last time Top 40/Pop did good in Seattle was in the 1980s/early 90s when KPLZ was #1. Then in 1992 KUBE went rhythmic, many market observers were so naive that they actually thought KUBE was crazy to go rhythmic in one of the least ethnic large markets. To their shock, KUBE instantly beat KPLZ and Sea-Tac has never been a good Top40 market since.

15. Phoenix: KZZP ranks #14. They are currently at the lowest level I ever remember. Top 40 is a tough format in the Southwest.

17. San Diego:KHTS ranks #5. A success, but leans rhythmic. They are similar to KIIS/LA, not too different than KLUC.

22.Denver: Top 40/pop does not exist. Similar to Las Vegas, Clear Channel was the last to try it there with a "KIIS FM". I think you would have to go back to the 1980s and the old Y108 to find the last time mainstream top 40 did well in the Mile High city.

24.Portland: KKRZ ranks #6. Z100 has recently made a comeback after several years of ratings trouble. Portland is one of the whitest large markets which works to the formats advantage.

26.Sacramento: KDND ranks #9.

27.Riverside-San Bernardino. The Inland Empire doesn't have a local CHR, but (an extremely rhythmic) KIIS makes a decent showing.

31.Salt Lake: KZHT ranks #9.

34. San Jose: CHR/Pop doesn't exist, I don't think it has since KWSS in the 80s. I remember in the late 80s when HOT 97.7 came on with a dance format aimed at Hispanic teen females. Almost everything HOT played could not be found on the national CHR chart, yet they instantly destroyed KWSS. This must have confused KWSS who was "playing by the rules". This is a great and rare example of out of the box thinking that really had an impact.

61.Tucson:KRQQ ranks #3. An example of a consistently successful Southwestern Top 40. This station has been around forever, so listeners know what the station is all about.

63.Honolulu: I don't think they have a CHR/Pop (maybe somebody that knows the market could confirm this), every now and then a station tries and fails with mainstream. the last I heard there are three rhythmics in Honolulu.

66. Fresno: Just a few days ago the markets only Top 40/Pop switched to AC Y101.1. Fresno has long been known as a tough market for CHR/Pop. As far back as the late 80s Fresno had 3 "CHR/Dance" stations and no mainstream top 40.

70. Albuqurque: KKOB-FM ranks #2. This has got to be the best example for anyone that takes the position that Top 40 could work in Vegas. ALBQ is an extremely over-radioed and fragmented market, Yet Top 40 is thriving. Top 40 purists would approve of this station too because they lean pop/Hot AC, not rhythmic. This station smashes the conventional wisdom that mainstream doesn't work in heavily Hispanic markets, however many ALBQ Hispanics have lived in the area for several generations, it's the most English dominant Hispanic market in the U.S.

#78 Bakersfield:Top 40/Pop does not exist

#80 Montery-Salinas:Top 40/Pop does not exist

#81 Stockton Top 40/Pop does not exist

#93 Spokane: The station you mentioed KQQB ranks #22. Are they signal challenged??

#100 Visalia-Tulare: Basically a part of the Fresno area, Top 40/Pop does not exist.

I guess my main point is that Las Vegas is not that unusual, especially in this region of the country, for not having a mainstream Top 40.

You don't know your radio stations! Honolulu has KQMQ 93.1 The Zone. KKOB is more of an adult top 40 station. Riverside there's KGGI 99.1 which is rhythmic CHR. KZZP is more rhythmic now and people keep confusing this station with KTRS 104.7 in Casper, WY.

 

[BigScott]

It's a GREAT marketing idea for radio.....Simmons Media in Salt Lake (X96, Jack-FM, and the former Star 102.7) has an open interface with the public, called the Airwaves Cafe at Trolly Square- fit with interactive studios and jumbotrons.