Great Voice of the Great Lakes Sinking Fast

[fred flintstone]

They moved from the top of the "Golden Tower of the Fisher Building" to the 9th floor. Their plunge from the top of Detroit's Arbitron's may be even more dramatic. WJR now ranks 6th in the 12+ Beauty Contest numbers with a share below five for the first time in living memory. WJR was at the top for decades due to a great signal and great local programming. Maybe the new owners can undo the damage Disney has wrought. With rumors floating that CBS is looking to unload stations, WWJ is in a three-way tie for the runner-up spot and leading JR for the first book in some time. Free FM down 3/10ths of a share point; not bad considering the major drops other Free FM stations have taken post-Howard.

 

[jcolletta275]

I posted this over on the Buzzboard as well.Here's the breakdown of things that have absolutely killed WJR: - Too much syndicated programming. - Less and less local news... especially the decision to go pre-recorded overnight (if WGY in frickin' ALBANY... or WHAS in Louisville... or even stations in other major markets like WTAM in Cleveland... if they can stay live overnight, WJR in market #9 sure as hell can too!) - Lackluster personalities. - ...and coming soon to a 760 near you: IB(A)C. Now I'm not suggesting dumping Rush or Sean. They're ratings-grabbers. However, they're only going to do as well as the rest of the station. They can't hold WJR up on their own (and that's obviously been proven by this book). So what should WJR do? - Find some way to spruce up Paul W.'s morning show. It just isn't cutting it right now. It's live and local, but it's getting more and more disinteresting every time I listen to it, and I don't think it's Paul's fault. He's quite capable of being a good host, and whether it's the producer, the management or what have you... for some reason, he's not running at his peak right now, and something needs to be done about it. - Lose Beckman and Albom. Beckman is somewhat decent, but somewhat decent doesn't cut it in the big leagues. He's okay at sports, but his show is a shambles. Albom, on the other hand, just doesn't belong on the air. Affiliate after affiliate realized that, now it's time for WJR to realize it. I don't have access to the numbers, so I don't know what kind of ratings he's pulling in, but his listenership can't be very high. Hell, they bumped an hour off of his live and local show to move Sean Hannity into his live timeslot! How much does that say about how the management already feels about him? - Lose Levin and Dr. Laura. I like Levin, but Detroit can do without, especially on a station suffering as much as WJR. Let someone else who can afford it pick him up. As for Laura... why on earth anyone listens to her escapes me. LCD (lowest common denominator) radio at it's worst. - Basic daytime schedule: Paul 6-9, whoever replaces Beckman 9-Noon, Rush Noon-3, Sean 3-6, Newshour 6-7, whoever replaces Albom (live and local) 7-10, live and local sports show (NOT Albom) 10PM-1AM. - Steal Coast to Coast AM from CKLW. I've heard all the arguments against this, and I still think it would be the smart thing to do. #1 overnight show vs. not #1 overnight show... which do you think would be smarter to have on a station that needs to rebuild? - Add more local news... more than what they've dropped in the recent past. Bring back the 6:00 news hour, but make it more like a full newscast, not just repeating the same stories at the top and bottom of the hour with little program segments in between. Think TV newscasts meet radio... you know, the way it was meant to be done. Bring back the overnight newscasts as well. - Weekends are pretty good as they are, although a music show once the station comes back in FULL AM STEREO wouldn't hurt in addition to the lineup they have now. If a manager with half a brain at the Fisher Building would do these things, WJR could easily get back into the top 3, possibly even back up to #1.

 

[OldiesCat1]

Great Voice

and, I'm sorry- it is absolutely CRIMINAL that WJR lost the Tigers. (the other stuff mentioned all make sense, as well)

 

[fred flintstone]

I agree with almost everything you said, but OC is right. 'JR was at its strongest with ballgames in the evening. They should get a lock on the Tigers, Wings, Piston, MSU/UM basketball and have a game on every night (on the rare nights when no local game, grab something from out of town). Get the rights and farm out the surplus. It worked for a long time: Ballgame at night and JP talked about it the next morning.

 

[VODood]

Overnights are not a rated daypart. Sales doesn't care either. Citadel may have "bought" ABC, but ABC/Disney retains 52% control. Meaning Citadel runs the stations but they won't have final say. Syndicated vs local....A mediocre syndicated talent is better than a bad local any day.

 

[fred flintstone]

A mediocre syndicated talent is better than a bad local any day.

That is often given as the reason for going syndicated and it may apply in smaller markets. Detroit is still a top ten market and this is WJR we are talking about. There is no excuse for a major market, heritage, 50kw flame-thrower to be putting on poor or mediocre talent. This station was once in the same category as WGN, Chicago and WLW, Cincinnati. All local. All good or excellent talent. Plus Cubbies or Reds.Cap Cities ran it as a class act and they were known as cheap-skates. Maybe it's a good think JP is not around to see what Disney has done to the station. If I still had my Mouseketeer hat, I'd send it back to them.

 

[jcolletta275]

I agree with almost everything you said, but OC is right. 'JR was at its strongest with ballgames in the evening. They should get a lock on the Tigers, Wings, Piston, MSU/UM basketball and have a game on every night (on the rare nights when no local game, grab something from out of town). Get the rights and farm out the surplus. It worked for a long time: Ballgame at night and JP talked about it the next morning.

I'll agree to that. The fact that they let the games get away in the first place was just pure insanity.

 

[MACK184]

Overnights are not a rated daypart. Sales doesn't care either. Citadel may have "bought" ABC, but ABC/Disney retains 52% control. Meaning Citadel runs the stations but they won't have final say. Syndicated vs local....A mediocre syndicated talent is better than a bad local any day.

Citadel will run the stations, and ABC/Disney will love it when Citadel slashes all the budgets & payroll and puts as much as they can on automatic. The idea of Citadel having it's hands on ABC is a disaster beyond contemplation.

 

[jcolletta275]

Just be glad it's not Cumulus running things. They'd do worse than Citadel.

 

[kenhawk1160]

I posted this over on the Buzzboard as well.Here's the breakdown of things that have absolutely killed WJR: - Too much syndicated programming. - Less and less local news... especially the decision to go pre-recorded overnight (if WGY in frickin' ALBANY... or WHAS in Louisville... or even stations in other major markets like WTAM in Cleveland... if they can stay live overnight, WJR in market #9 sure as hell can too!) - Lackluster personalities. - ...and coming soon to a 760 near you: IB(A)C. Now I'm not suggesting dumping Rush or Sean. They're ratings-grabbers. However, they're only going to do as well as the rest of the station. They can't hold WJR up on their own (and that's obviously been proven by this book). So what should WJR do? - Find some way to spruce up Paul W.'s morning show. It just isn't cutting it right now. It's live and local, but it's getting more and more disinteresting every time I listen to it, and I don't think it's Paul's fault. He's quite capable of being a good host, and whether it's the producer, the management or what have you... for some reason, he's not running at his peak right now, and something needs to be done about it. - Lose Beckman and Albom. Beckman is somewhat decent, but somewhat decent doesn't cut it in the big leagues. He's okay at sports, but his show is a shambles. Albom, on the other hand, just doesn't belong on the air. Affiliate after affiliate realized that, now it's time for WJR to realize it. I don't have access to the numbers, so I don't know what kind of ratings he's pulling in, but his listenership can't be very high. Hell, they bumped an hour off of his live and local show to move Sean Hannity into his live timeslot! How much does that say about how the management already feels about him? - Lose Levin and Dr. Laura. I like Levin, but Detroit can do without, especially on a station suffering as much as WJR. Let someone else who can afford it pick him up. As for Laura... why on earth anyone listens to her escapes me. LCD (lowest common denominator) radio at it's worst. - Basic daytime schedule: Paul 6-9, whoever replaces Beckman 9-Noon, Rush Noon-3, Sean 3-6, Newshour 6-7, whoever replaces Albom (live and local) 7-10, live and local sports show (NOT Albom) 10PM-1AM. - Steal Coast to Coast AM from CKLW. I've heard all the arguments against this, and I still think it would be the smart thing to do. #1 overnight show vs. not #1 overnight show... which do you think would be smarter to have on a station that needs to rebuild? - Add more local news... more than what they've dropped in the recent past. Bring back the 6:00 news hour, but make it more like a full newscast, not just repeating the same stories at the top and bottom of the hour with little program segments in between. Think TV newscasts meet radio... you know, the way it was meant to be done. Bring back the overnight newscasts as well. - Weekends are pretty good as they are, although a music show once the station comes back in FULL AM STEREO wouldn't hurt in addition to the lineup they have now. If a manager with half a brain at the Fisher Building would do these things, WJR could easily get back into the top 3, possibly even back up to #1.

Very much a shame to hear that WJR has cheapened their product. As for Albom, I think he's concentrating more these days on his books than he is his show. Putting the station back in AM Stereo is a mistake, I think. It never caught on, and not every receiver in a car can decode AM stereo, and I know for a fact that not all home receivers have it. However, I don't think a High Def radio channel is entirely out of the question here...especially in a market of this size. Syndicated programming on a 50,000 watt AM station should be kept out of the prime dayparts, with the exception of Hannity.

 

[Jul]

Should WJR-AM 760 change formats?

I know this might sound crazy but should WJR-AM change formats, if so which one and why

 

[fred flintstone]

Re: Should WJR-AM 760 change formats?

I know this might sound crazy but should WJR-AM change formats, if so which one and why

Yes, it does sound crazy.
And what would you have them change, too? (Just curious.)

Their problem is not the format. It's how poorly they've been doing the format.

Their model should be ABC/Citadel's KGO. All local - live. It will take years to rebuild 'JR but they've got to start sometime.

That said, management may not think there's a problem - as long as they keep selling spot and beat J.

 

[kenhawk1160]

Re: Should WJR-AM 760 change formats?

Their problem is not the format. It's how poorly they've been doing the format. Their model should be ABC/Citadel's KGO. All local - live. It will take years to rebuild 'JR but they've got to start sometime. That said, management may not think there's a problem - as long as they keep selling spot and beat J.

This is an example of cutting your nose off to spite your face. Too many conglomerates see "growth" as cutting back their staffs and operating more efficiently. This isn't growth. It may look better on a balance sheet, but in a Top Ten market, you have be committed to putting out no less than an absolutely excellent product. New sales ideas, promotions and thinking out of the box are examples of true growth. Killing off local hosts one by one and replacing them with syndicated hosts isn't the answer. Losing the Detroit Tigers should NEVER have been allowed to happen. KDKA in Pittsburgh is going through this same deal now with their recent loss of the Pittsburgh Pirates.

 

[jnuznoff]

OK folks...no new postings for almost a year. Well, not much has changed so I will give y'all my 2cents worth. First, overnigts...no UFO/ghost radio (ala coast-to-coast) this is like giving everyone in the audience a copy of Weekly World News. Here in Akron, WHLO dumped George Norey and added (delayed) Phil Hendry. This guy is hilarious, although his bits often run too long. IMHO, I think they should get Warren Pierce on during the weekdays. I heard him Sunday morning live from the Texas State Fair (who the hell was listening??). He is a great interviewer, although I don't know what kind of demographics he attracts. Paul W does a nice job (but what's with the "W" anyway? Sounds pretentious to me.) Where is Paul Winter when you need him?
OK, enough of my rantings.
Jim

 

[jcolletta275]

Hendrie on WJR would be a GREAT thing for both 'JR and Hendrie. Think about it: Phil would gain an affiliate that you can hear darn near across half of the country, and 760 would get an overnight show that isn't conspiracy theories or trucker talk (not that I dislike conspiracy theories... the trucker talk, though, I can pass on).

Keep Rush and Sean. Like them or not, they do well on 'JR.

Lose Albom entirely. His show is useless.

Paul W. is okay, but he needs something to spice up his show, and I'm not sure what. It's not that he needs to move on, because he's fine where he is, but something does need to change there. The show's lacking that umph it needs.

Beckman needs to stick to sports and sports broadcasts. He doesn't belong in middays doing political and current events-based talk. Warren Pierce would be a great replacement in that time slot.

Dump Levin. I know, I know, "every station that airs Hannity" blah blah blah. Other stations, I believe even a Citadel station or two, air Sean without Mark and vice-versa. WJR doesn't need Levin, and Levin doesn't need WJR. Let someone else have him.

Bring back the evening hour-long newscast, but make it a FULL newscast, not just a few pre-recorded segments in between repeats of the headlines. I've heard every argument against this, and none of them stand up. It would work if done right. Trust me. It would.

Beckman could possibly do an evening sports show 7-10. He'd be suited for that. Don't even think about giving it to Albom, though.

Also, bring back the overnight newscasts. If WWJ can stay live 24/7... hell, if WHAS is Louisville can stay live 24/7... there's no reason WJR can't. We may be market 11 now, but that's no excuse.

I know I've posted all these things before, and I still stand by them. It's not that WJR has to be local all the way around, because their two major syndicated programs are bringing in the listeners. In addition, they're currently #3, beating any other talk-based station (especially WWJ) by at least three places, so they must be doing something right. They just need to spruce things up a bit, and if they do that, there's no reason they couldn't once again be the clear market leader in any format.

 

[naughtytalker]

Newsflash!... WJR has been sinking since early 1996 and the death of Joseph Priestly (JP) McCarthy.

The station didn't want to hire Paul W. Smith but lost the bidding war for Dick Purtan when it topped $3 million a year. (in 1996 dollars) I agree, Mitch Albom has been a snore since day one and I can't believe he lasted for 12 years in any format. But consider, he replaced the afternoon Newscenter with Joel Alexander and Dana Mills, who were suffocatingly boring. The station has always been and continues to be bland, bland, bland, blah, blah, blah.

Frank Beckman is the only longtime performer the legacy station has left and I agree, he would do better in place of Albom later in the day, but why not afternoon drive? WJR could tape-delay Hannity from 9 to noon. I was once a big fan of Warren Pierce, (pre-puberty) but he's become a gas-bag whose career crashed and burned when he took those high-priced BMW test drives and instead of delivering glowing reviews, he and his wife used car companies for free personal transportation. Remember the bumper-stickers: "Honk if you loaned your car to Warren Pierce." Hillarious!!!!

There's nothing wrong with national syndication, which is the way of the new world... so, get over it! It took years to wrestle Rush Limbaugh away from WXYT, but I'll never understand the listener interest or ratings generated by Hannity's vapid right-wing ratchet-jawing, but that's just me. Phil Hendrie's moronic impersonations are a mind numbing dial turner in almost every market he's in. Forget about it, he'll be gone again before you can miss him.

WJR's local news department needs a complete make-over. Mornings haven't been the same since the exit of Dan Streeter and the stellar 760 reporters who delivered the best newscast in town. The headline rip' n' readers who replaced them have sucked wind for years, in every daypart, mornings, mid-days and afternoons.

Nightflight 760 is dead and buried and so are live overnight newscasts in almost every major market. Considering the caliber of WJR's newsroom, they're actually doing the public a favor. While Coast to Coast AM is listenable and grabs ratings, it's a Premiere Radio offering, like most every other piece of good syndicated programming. Probably not what ABC/Citadel wants to do.

My advice; Stay the course, 6th place is better than the station deserves and Detroiter's are too stupid to know good radio anyway. Now you know, the rest of the story. Good Day!

 

[jcolletta275]

Phil Hendrie's moronic impersonations are a mind numbing dial turner in almost every market he's in. Forget about it, he'll be gone again before you can miss him.

Only to those who don't get it. And they're not "impersonations," they're characters of his own creation. He does need to bring back the segments in which the callers talk to his characters (mistaking them for real guests). That's what made his old show great, but as I pointed out on the News/Talk board, I think TRN doesn't want him doing that. Which is a shame... it's truly some of the best comedy I've ever heard.

 

[cARLOS Blake]

People are tired of hearing rich conservatives talking all day for 11 straight hours about how great the Republicans are while outside the Fisher Bldg. there's a trashed out failing, crime ridden city. At least when Albom was 3-7 it broke up all the politics for a while. The News Department is still top notch at least.

 

[Julius Leonard Marx]

If the news department is "top-notch" it's because today's standards for radio news are so low. Even so, they trail J, which is just OK. JR's news department is nothing like what it was. Nothing on the station is.

What JR had and now lacks:
(1) Class.
(2) Strong local presence and involvement.

Once it was in the same league with WGN, WLW and KGO (also owned by Citadel). Those stations aren't what they were either, but they haven't fallen nearly as fall as JR. The station's move from the 20th floor to the 9th floor of the Fisher Building is a perfect metaphor.

The person who started the slide was Phil Noyce. Discredit where discredit is due.

Is there a way to bring JR back. Probably not. It's been said before; AM radio can't get listeners back and they won't get new listeners.

 

[Big Mustafa]

As a long time fan of WJR, I too am sadden by the demise of this once great station. However, I have a few different suggestions to get this thing rolling again.

First, dump Rush. He is old, tired and quite honestly I am sick of his bullying and not checking information before he shoots his mouth off. The phony-soldier thing was the last straw. Besides, the dittoheads lack the intelligence to know when they ae being lied to.

Second, Dump Hannity. Like the previous post, I agree he is a wind bag that puts his foot in his mouth every night and his followers should not wait for the mailperson to deliver their invitations to join mensa.

Third, All programming should be local. Look at WGN in Chicago for an example of how a real full-service radio station should operate.

JR still has the opportunity to pull it out but it will take some courage by management, which I don't think they have.