"Green 960" a bad joke

[SUPERCASTER]

Here is a copy of a recent e-mail to www.green960.com

How can your station claim to be "green" when you broadcast using the most interfering, inefficent, heat producing, needless, energy wasting technology ever, HD radio?
You are inefficiently wasting additional electricity to broadcast to a tiny handful of power hungry HD radios?
The "green" slogan must be a joke, or stand for greed, not the environment.
-Dave

 

[AngieC]

This is true. All entities that cannot do everything absolutely up to the highest standard of perfection should make no effort whatsoever.

Better to curse the darkness than to light any candles at all.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

At a time when the world is facing an energy/food/employment/economic crisis, border security, terrorists, and 2 seemingly interminable wars both HD radio listeners could forgo their daily dose of digital hiss.

I curse the mindless, not the darkness.
Yes, lighting a few candles to honor our heros would be much better then HD radio.

 

[rickradio]

It'll be interesting to see what 960's reply will be, if they haven't already.

Probably the usual, carefully-worded horse poop from the GM. What better to fertilize the "green?"

 

[DavidKaye]

How can your station claim to be "green" when you broadcast using the most interfering, inefficent, heat producing, needless, energy wasting technology ever, HD radio?

If you're going to go after anyone, go after KTRB 860, which uses 4,000 gallons of propane a week in order to fuel a 50kw transmitter nobody is listening to! It's true. Even KVTO 1400 at 1kw with its Vietnamese and Chinese language programming gets enough listeners to make it in to the Arbitrons. But KTRB at 50kw gets zero listeners.

For its faults, KKGN gets listeners, and listeners might be motivated to "green up" their lives. KTRB gets no listeners and is wasting far more energy than any other Bay Area radio station.

So, what are you going to send to KTRB, huh?

 

[Michael Rivers Kramer]

Here's a better one.....Look at the radiation pattern for KKGN, it looks like they're throwing most of their signal towards the ocean. It does, however, put a nice signal over The City.

Here's a slogan...."Green 960, The Farallon Islands' Progressive Talk Station".

or

"Green 960, We Still Don't Know the Way to San Jose"


http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=KKGN&service=AM&status=L&hours=U




Truthfully, It does help that salt water makes the best ground conductivity.

 

[rickradio]

OK, I guess I'm a little slow on the uptake, but I initially thought that the email was written by someone else and read by Supercaster. He didn't specify whether he wrote it or just saw it. But given his hatred for HD, I guess it makes sense that he wrote it. OK, thanks for bearing with me.

 

[BossRadioDJ]

Here's a better one.....Look at the radiation pattern for KKGN, it looks like they're throwing most of their signal towards the ocean.

That seems to be the case with many California stations. I've wondered about doing a DX-pedition on a ship about 100 miles out in the Pacific. I'd bet the reception and the number of signals would be impressive.

 

[FightingIrish]

Here is a copy of a recent e-mail to www.green960.com

How can your station claim to be "green" when you broadcast using the most interfering, inefficent, heat producing, needless, energy wasting technology ever, HD radio?
You are inefficiently wasting additional electricity to broadcast to a tiny handful of power hungry HD radios?
The "green" slogan must be a joke, or stand for greed, not the environment.
-Dave

Since the board editor has been selectively chopping this thread up, I will at least say that HD Radio broadcasts amount to roughly 1% of the power of the regular signal. Since KKGN is 5000 watts, that would make the HD signal about 50 watts. Not sure what the shutting down of a 50 watt transmitter equals in regard to cars per year taken off the road, but I'm willing to bet it's not much.

I will also mention that one could easily pay a visit to the HD Radio board to see what the original poster's opinions are of the technology.

 

[djtalker]

Hey, David Kaye....help us out! Why don't you turn off your air conditioner this summer?

Thanks!

 

[LKellerIII]

"Hey, David Kaye....help us out! Why don't you turn off your air conditioner this summer?"

In San Francisco, "air conditioning" is when you open windows on both ends of your house for the cross-ventilation. You "turn it off" by closing one or both windows when your extremities start to go numb from the cold...in August.

In the City, air conditioning is both green, and politically correct.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

Here is a copy of a recent e-mail to www.green960.com

How can your station claim to be "green" when you broadcast using the most interfering, inefficent, heat producing, needless, energy wasting technology ever, HD radio?
You are inefficiently wasting additional electricity to broadcast to a tiny handful of power hungry HD radios?
The "green" slogan must be a joke, or stand for greed, not the environment.
-Dave

Since the board editor has been selectively chopping this thread up, I will at least say that HD Radio broadcasts amount to roughly 1% of the power of the regular signal. Since KKGN is 5000 watts, that would make the HD signal about 50 watts. Not sure what the shutting down of a 50 watt transmitter equals in regard to cars per year taken off the road, but I'm willing to bet it's not much.

I will also mention that one could easily pay a visit to the HD Radio board to see what the original poster's opinions are of the technology.

Your figures for power consumption to generate HD radio signals are totally wrong. You quote power output not power input. It takes much more power input to a transmitter to generate HD radio digital signals then it does to generate analog AM or FM, creates much more loss in the form of heat (power dissipation) and in addition, extra wasted power for additional cooling is usually required to be added to the transmitter building.

Here are impartial power consumption test results from CBC radio for HD FM:

Conclusion: In some of these cases, the injection of 100 W of IBOC power leads to the generation of up to 5 to 6 kW of extra heat in the room,
with an ancillary impact on HVAC systems. None of these combining techniques are extremely simple to implement. The choice will depend
on the existing infrastructure.

http://www.cbc.radio-canada.ca/technologyreview/pdf/issue4-trial.pdf

The situation is similar for HD AM, consuming much more input power then required to generate equal power AM analog RF signals, and creating more heat to generate the HD digital AM signals then a high efficiency analog (only) AM transmitter.

Your "FightingIrish" example (above) is a false and misleading representation of the necessary input power consumption for HD radio.

More to come...

 

[SUPERCASTER]

I never said that "Green 960" was the only station wasting power broadcasting HD radio hiss to virtually no one. Just one of the most blatant and hypocritical.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

Here is a copy of a recent e-mail to www.green960.com

How can your station claim to be "green" when you broadcast using the most interfering, inefficent, heat producing, needless, energy wasting technology ever, HD radio?
You are inefficiently wasting additional electricity to broadcast to a tiny handful of power hungry HD radios?
The "green" slogan must be a joke, or stand for greed, not the environment.
-Dave

Since the board editor has been selectively chopping this thread up, I will at least say that HD Radio broadcasts amount to roughly 1% of the power of the regular signal. Since KKGN is 5000 watts, that would make the HD signal about 50 watts. Not sure what the shutting down of a 50 watt transmitter equals in regard to cars per year taken off the road, but I'm willing to bet it's not much.

I will also mention that one could easily pay a visit to the HD Radio board to see what the original poster's opinions are of the technology.

Your figures for power consumption to generate HD radio signals are totally wrong. You quote power output not power input. It takes much more power input to a transmitter to generate HD radio digital signals then it does to generate analog AM or FM, creates much more loss in the form of heat (power dissipation) and in addition, extra wasted power for additional cooling is usually required to be added to the transmitter building.

Here are impartial power consumption test results from CBC radio for HD FM:

Conclusion: In some of these cases, the injection of 100 W of IBOC power leads to the generation of up to 5 to 6 kW of extra heat in the room,
with an ancillary impact on HVAC systems. None of these combining techniques are extremely simple to implement. The choice will depend
on the existing infrastructure.

http://www.cbc.radio-canada.ca/technologyreview/pdf/issue4-trial.pdf

The situation is similar for HD AM, consuming much more input power then required to generate equal power AM analog RF signals, and creating more heat to generate the HD digital AM signals then a high efficiency analog (only) AM transmitter.

Your "FightingIrish" example (above) is a false and misleading representation of the necessary input power consumption for HD radio.

More to come...

From the same CBC report:

]• Transmitter dissipation (typical HD radio transmitter efficiency is 30%, with the other 70% expended as heat).

OPERATIONAL ISSUES
Heat generation
The implementation of HD radio involves a 1% increase in the effective isotropic radiated
power (EIRP). However, the actual electrical power consumption and the byproduct “heat” is
driven to a much higher percentage. Although HD radio injection levels are fairly low (about 1%, or ‐20 dB) in relation to the host
FM station, the heat dissipation is fairly significant. This is caused by the high combiner, as the
HD radio signal is inserted using a high‐level combiner.
This type of combiner is characterized as follows:
• The loss on the host port is very low (0.35 dB, or roughly 90% efficiency).
• The loss on the digital port is very significant (about 10 dB, or 90% coupling loss).
Other sources of heat are:
• Combiner dissipation (0.1 dB, or 2.5%).
• Transmitter dissipation (typical HD radio transmitter efficiency is 30%, with the other
70% expended as heat).

Transmitter efficiency for an analog (non HD) AM or FM transmitter may approach or exceed 90%.

 

[DavidKaye]

Hey, David Kaye....help us out! Why don't you turn off your air conditioner this summer?
Thanks!

The only air conditioner I have is in my car and it hasn't worked in about 5 years. I'm at home at the moment and we haven't had the heat on in probably 10 days. I take short showers and drive only when necessary for my work.

And you?

 

[DavidKaye]

I never said that "Green 960" was the only station wasting power broadcasting HD radio hiss to virtually no one. Just one of the most blatant and hypocritical.

Again, when are you going to contact KTRB and tell them that they're the most wasteful radio station in the Bay Area, burning 4,000 gallons of propane every week? KTRB is a travesty, and you're not commenting about it. Shows where your priorities are.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

I never said that "Green 960" was the only station wasting power broadcasting HD radio hiss to virtually no one. Just one of the most blatant and hypocritical.

Again, when are you going to contact KTRB and tell them that they're the most wasteful radio station in the Bay Area, burning 4,000 gallons of propane every week? KTRB is a travesty, and you're not commenting about it. Shows where your priorities are.

I'm not commenting about KTRB because I have no knowledge about how they power their transmitter (if at all).
Your personal criticism of me for not addressing your demands that I criticize KTRB shows your biased personal agenda and "where your priorities are".

 

[in3media_be1]

Some of the posts from this thread have been moved to Take It Outside


http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,98464.msg764632.html#msg764632

 

[djtalker]

What does David Kaye have against KTRB? He continually has negative attitude toward them while they are only developing a service to the community and given all of the competition, it doesn't happen overnight. It appears that they are supporting the economy in the East Bay where David Kaye resides, he must get a little sweaty during the summer months as he says he has no air conditioner. Also, don't worry about Green "960", they just lost more then 1/3 of their audience according to the SF winter book released yesterday. They will not be around much longer, thanks to Kim Bryant!

 

[landtuna]

In the City, air conditioning is both green, and politically correct.

Correction: Should be The City not the City. (San Franciscans don't acknowledge the existance of any other city in the world - much like New Yawkers). ;D

And wasn't it that notable S.F. pundit Herb Caen who said "the coldest winter I ever spent was summer in San Francisco?"

He was correct.