GRRR - G Rock Repetition Radio

[SoulCrusher]

First off, to any detractors that have criticized posting on the subject - I like G Rock Radio. What I'm about to do is called constructive criticism. I'm going to address something that may fly on a CHR, but should never be done on a Modern Rock station.

This afternoon, not only did G Rock Radio play the same song twice in a just over two-hour time span, but it was a song that's 13 years old. Nirvana's "All Apologies" (Acoustic) was played at both 12:25 PM and 2:32 PM. Isn't this a little ridiculous? Don't you guys have a deep enough library that you can afford to play a bit more of a variety? It would have been maybe a little acceptable if they played the electric version one of those times, but nooooo - more of the exact same thing.

I don't understand why G Rock Radio needs to take such a safe, nervous approach to Modern Rock. There is no need whatsoever for anything even remotely approaching this level of repetition. They play the same songs day in and day out, and while most of them are quite good, they have worn out their welcome over time. If they want the at-work audience to tune in, maybe they shouldn't be playing the same old same old every day. People are going to tune out if they hear the songs they've heard before constantly - believe me, a song doesn't sound the same when you've heard it 10,000 times. Apparently that point of view is lost on the folks at G Rock.

 

[tom]

OK -- The first time the song played was during a request show - "The Nineties at Noon" and the second time it was scheduled. It is virtually impossible to keep a song from playing again when it's been played as a request. Someone needs to KNOW it was played, check a list, substitute a different song, etc. Guess what ... it really doesn't matter. You can play the core artists every hour and the listeners will love it. Nirvana started the whole alternative thing - so I would say they are a core artist.

 

[SoulCrusher]

Well, it's one thing to play an artist once an hour, which G Rock does quite often. It's quite another thing to play the exact same song in such a short period of time. But I guess it comes down to the fact that it played during a request show, and was automated to play again. But couldn't the PD/MD/DJ make a change in the system to keep this from happening? Maybe not - I've heard that they run a tight ship over at G Rock Radio, and while that leads to professionalism, it also leads to predictability.

 

[tom]

Anything that relies on humans to "remember" or "check" is not foolproof.
I've been doing this since before computers, and there still isn't a good way
to make sure you don't play the same song. AudioVault, when used manually,
does show that a song "on the playlist" has been played, but if the previous
jock plays one of your songs out of the library (and not the playlist) it doesn't
get checked off. It's pretty easy to pick a song when you're in a hurry that you
already played yourself ... remember that the DJ's are often busy doing other
things, not sitting back enjoying the music - so it's hard to remember that you
played a song while you were on the phone reporting a traffic incident, or
working on getting the weather updated, or whatever else.

The digital playback systems aren't often tied back to the music scheduling
systems in real time, but that would be nice. Let's say someone plays a
Nirvana song at noon that was going to come up at two ... the music system
could realize that and play another Nirvana cut that is available to play under
the rules that have been set up.

BUT ... the other issue at many stations is how do you work around a live
weekend satellite specialty show, a syndicated countdown show, etc where
they are playing the same songs. It requires a lot of work. That's why the
odd song slips through the cracks back to back now and then.

Computers really haven't improved much over the old (properly used)
file card system where you just inititialed and time/dated the card when
you played the song.

 

[The Platypus]

Did the BlueClaws have a home game the day that this happened?

 

[Herb999]

Sh*t happens, With the specalty programming it is almost impossible to avoid the double play. However, in this case the Dj should have noted all the songs they played on the request show and then checked the log for the day to make sure that they don't play again that day.

Anyway, I doubt any listener really cared and G rock is an interesting rock hot ac/alternative that is a nice change from predictable large market radio.

 

[qtpieislit]

Tom’s assessment of today’s broadcast digital playback systems’ software capacity extends beyond AudioVault’s proprietary technology. At HyLitRadio we use a different playback software package and are saddled with the same limitations. No ‘real time’ playlist configuration assimilation. Only when the entire daily playlist is reshuffled and re-loaded does previous repetitive time placement play a calculative role is future scheduling. And that Begs for one question. Where is a good card file system when you need one.

 

[fforte]

And its not just the playback software, but sometimes the music scheduling software will hiccup. I've had artists come up twice in an hour -- once had the same song twice in an hour. Shouldn't happen, but it does. It slipped by the scheduling software and the person who checked the log. I caught it.

For the request hour, I generally check 4 hours either way to make sure the song isn't coming up (or was just played). Most of the times I'm successful in catching them, but once in a while I'll be driving home from my shift and say "doh" missed that one.

And speak of AudioVault -- at a previous place I worked, we had a tab that showed everything that had played that day. Where I am now, we don't (all the slot are filled with other categories). If you had a couple minutes, that was useful to look back and see what played during the last few hours.

Just my 2 cents, FWIW.

 

[SoulCrusher]

Another entry in the "G Rock Radio Repetition" files. It is this very repetition of Gold titles that weakens what would be an otherwise good station.

9:53 AM: Stone Temple Pilots - Big Empty
2:39 AM: Stone Temple Pilots - Big Empty

That's right. A 12 year old song played twice over a 7 hour period, and neither time was it on a request show like Nineties At Noon. At that rate, the song would be getting 21 spins for the week. G Rock Radio is really playing it way too safe. Would it have killed them to play maybe a different STP song for a change, like maybe "Down" or "Crackerman"? I'm guessing that it would have.

So they have this huge Alternative Rock library that spans 30 years, but what is it good for? They're just going to spin the same 100-150 Gold titles and 30-40 odd Currents and pretend that the "Burn" concept doesn't exist - that's why we're still hearing the same tired Nirvana and Green Day songs ad nauseum. Obviously they're trying to be real safe to appeal to the advertisers, but there is such a thing as too safe, and I believe they have reached it. This will result in listeners tiring of the repetition and likely tuning out, and that is not a good idea. You have to walk a fine line between pleasing both the listeners and the advertisers, and it is readily apparent that Press is catering much more to the latter than the former.

 

[SoulCrusher]

Also of note: I don't have the second time that it played (it has since disappeared), but G Rock Radio has also played Harvey Danger's "Flagpole Sitta" twice today (once around 7:30, and once about 6 hours prior), and it isn't even noon yet! There is much more than a mechanical defect going on here - I think it's just Press playing it very safe for some reason. There really is no need for it - they are really testing the loyalty of their audience by doing this. What's going on here?

 

[Beejus]

Would it have killed them to play maybe a different STP song for a change, like maybe "Down" or "Crackerman"? I'm guessing that it would have.

So they have this huge Alternative Rock library that spans 30 years, but what is it good for? They're just going to spin the same 100-150 Gold titles and 30-40 odd Currents and pretend that the "Burn" concept doesn't exist - that's why we're still hearing the same tired Nirvana and Green Day songs ad nauseum. Obviously they're trying to be real safe to appeal to the advertisers, but there is such a thing as too safe, and I believe they have reached it. This will result in listeners tiring of the repetition and likely tuning out, and that is not a good idea. You have to walk a fine line between pleasing both the listeners and the advertisers, and it is readily apparent that Press is catering much more to the latter than the former.

Let's see...
STP- Down- A blazing 9 spins at Alternative this week.
STP- Crackerman- A whopping 19 spins at Alternative this week. (If it makes you feel better, although I know it won't... WRAT played Crackerman this week).

And G Rock has played 590 different gold titles in the past 7 days.

So G Rock played a song at 2:30am and again at 10am. How many people listening at 2:30 were listening again at 10 and said "hey! Didn't I just hear this song just seven and a half short hours ago?"

No one.

Stop kicking Mr. Ed. He's already dead.

 

[SoulCrusher]

Let's see...
STP- Down- A blazing 9 spins at Alternative this week.
STP- Crackerman- A whopping 19 spins at Alternative this week. (If it makes you feel better, although I know it won't... WRAT played Crackerman this week).

And G Rock has played 590 different gold titles in the past 7 days.

So G Rock played a song at 2:30am and again at 10am. How many people listening at 2:30 were listening again at 10 and said "hey! Didn't I just hear this song just seven and a half short hours ago?"

No one.

Stop kicking Mr. Ed. He's already dead.

Well, how do you know that G Rock isn't going to play "Big Empty" again at 5 PM? The point I'm trying to make is simple: G Rock's library is big enough that they should not be playing Gold titles this frequently.

And how do you know that G Rock has played 590 Gold titles? I assume that this is including that "Labor Day Request" promotion that was ran, along with the specialty shows, and all of the dayparting that this station does ... take those away and you've whittled the selections down to a substantially smaller amount.

While I am not opposed to dayparting, dividing the station like this does lead to lots of repetition the way it's being programmed. If they're so concerned with capturing the "listen at work" audience, you would think that they would know when to let up on the repetition. Right now they are playing "Float On" by Modest Mouse (a.k.a. the new millennium's "Don't Worry, Be Happy") for the millionth time, and it's one of those songs that gets more irritating with every spin.

In summary: G Rock Radio is every bit as advertiser-friendly as FM 106.3 was listener-friendly. There's nothing wrong at all with courting advertisers, but when your station becomes so heavily slanted toward advertisers that you play worn-out hits incessantly while ignoring Burn factors, that's taking it too far.

Ah, but who am I kidding? If "Stairway To Heaven" and "Freebird" get pounded into the ground at Classic Rock stations, then Alternatives will do the same with "Smells Like Teen Spirit" and "Interstate Love Song".

 

[Beejus]

Well, how do you know that G Rock isn't going to play "Big Empty" again at 5 PM? The point I'm trying to make is simple: G Rock's library is big enough that they should not be playing Gold titles this frequently.

And how do you know that G Rock has played 590 Gold titles? I assume that this is including that "Labor Day Request" promotion that was ran, along with the specialty shows, and all of the dayparting that this station does ... take those away and you've whittled the selections down to a substantially smaller amount.

While I am not opposed to dayparting, dividing the station like this does lead to lots of repetition the way it's being programmed. If they're so concerned with capturing the "listen at work" audience, you would think that they would know when to let up on the repetition. Right now they are playing "Float On" by Modest Mouse (a.k.a. the new millennium's "Don't Worry, Be Happy") for the millionth time, and it's one of those songs that gets more irritating with every spin.

In summary: G Rock Radio is every bit as advertiser-friendly as FM 106.3 was listener-friendly. There's nothing wrong at all with courting advertisers, but when your station becomes so heavily slanted toward advertisers that you play worn-out hits incessantly while ignoring Burn factors, that's taking it too far.

Ah, but who am I kidding? If "Stairway To Heaven" and "Freebird" get pounded into the ground at Classic Rock stations, then Alternatives will do the same with "Smells Like Teen Spirit" and "Interstate Love Song".

Again, you miss the point. Few people will realize that they played the song 8 hours ago. It's a familiar song that many people like, so G Rock plays it. The only people who pick up on the fact that they've played it before are the radio enthusiasts like most on the boards, and the anal... like you.


Go dig up Secretariat if you want to keep beating him. Otherwise, I'm done with this thread.

 

[Radio411]

Beejus HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD! If you consider the difference in listenership in the "overnights" and "Middays" for example, it's obvious that they are drastically different. I know for a fact that stations "recycle tunes" from the overnights and schedule them to play a few shifts later. It's just a FACT! Do YOU (Soulcrusher) think that the PD's and MD's are just popping these songs in the rotation so heavily because THEY like them? It's simply NOT the case and most of the time it comes from upper management and their RESEARCH which is HIGHLY DEBATEABLE but yet is relied upon so friggin much. Do you honestly think that if a listener thinks a song is "overkilled" that the jock doesn't as well??? Come on! The jocks feel the same burnout but their hands are tied in terms of what they can do about it.

Radio will NEVER have the variety that it once had because of ONE THING: RESEARCH! Research might be great for finding cures to disease but it RUINED radio. Therefore we get the same "cookie-cutter" bland, boring garbage in abundance. It sucks but it's reality. The concept of "Jack" is IMO a GREAT one but when you play the same "Power Songs" that the other stations have killed you fall back into the same trap. If there is to be ANY hope for Terrestrial Radio they better start using their own guts/instincts and tossing the consultants crap into the circular file.

SoulCrusher while you DO come off as repetitive and annoying sometimes as 'PLJ, I will admit that your points DO have merit and are quite valid. Radio needs help and individually we can't do anything about it but even though it may be a long shot, collectively we may be able to. Constructive Crtitcism duelly noted however I don't work for Press or G-Rock so I can't be of much help...

My $11 worth...

 

[amfmsw]

SC...relax before you have a stroke! So what, a song repeated.

A song that ran at 10am and 2am aren't really considered a repeat. The others are correct in saying they are a DIFFERENT audience. AT WFPG-FM (some years ago) we used an 18 hour clock. 6am to midnight, then basically a 6am till noon repeat. It aided rotation wonderfully, prevented repitition, kept the station fresh, and gave the 3rd shift listeners, important in Atlantic City, the same quality of programming that the 1st shift got. WFPG-FM was always in the Top 3, and 1 or 2 25-54.

 

[SoulCrusher]

Radio will NEVER have the variety that it once had because of ONE THING: RESEARCH! Research might be great for finding cures to disease but it RUINED radio. Therefore we get the same "cookie-cutter" bland, boring garbage in abundance. It sucks but it's reality. The concept of "Jack" is IMO a GREAT one but when you play the same "Power Songs" that the other stations have killed you fall back into the same trap. If there is to be ANY hope for Terrestrial Radio they better start using their own guts/instincts and tossing the consultants crap into the circular file.

SoulCrusher while you DO come off as repetitive and annoying sometimes as 'PLJ, I will admit that your points DO have merit and are quite valid. Radio needs help and individually we can't do anything about it but even though it may be a long shot, collectively we may be able to. Constructive Crtitcism duelly noted however I don't work for Press or G-Rock so I can't be of much help...

My $11 worth...

Well, I know that it doesn't come down to the personal favorites of each disc jockey, and I doubt requests had anything to do with it either, since G Rock Radio seems to only take them late at night, and even then they seldom play them. In fact, I would venture to guess that a lot of the decision making as far as music and programming is concerned lies more in the hands of the execs, rather than the PD and MD. I'm sure they have input, but the execs are the ones with the final say as to what goes on and what doesn't.

Generally, the bigger the company, the more likely they are to use heavy consulting along with a real generic cookie-cutter take on a given format, just like you said.

I thought Press Communications was going to be different. Sure, they once owned NJ 101.5 and The Asbury Park Press, so obviously they're very successful. But they weren't known as a force in the radio industry, and FM 106.3 was doing just fine considering all the strikes against it before they purchased it. That made little difference to the folks at Press - overnight, they took that great Jersey Shore institution and turned it into G 106.3, and it was far closer to a Hot/Modern AC than Alternative. This station played Nelly Furtado, Vanessa Carlton, Avril Lavigne, Bon Jovi, Sting, Norah Jones, etc. while still billing itself as "Your Rock Alternative". Right around 2004, the station finally started to sound a lot more focused, playing titles that legitimately fell in the Alternative category - the station was finally sounding decent at this point, but two problems remained: A): Too much repetition with the Gold titles, and fewer Currents than average ... B): The station's continued reluctance to embrace the edgier sounds that by this point were firmly established on the format - note that this is probably the reason for the limited amount of Currents, along with the obvious heavy consulting. Because, God forbid we "scare" the advertisers away by playing acts like Korn or Atreyu, even though the listeners want to hear it. Instead, we'll just play a plethora of innocuous faceless pop/rock and bubblegum pop-punk instead - that won't chase anyone away. Except for maybe the Male listeners, but who needs them anyway?

So therein lies the problem with G Rock Radio. Instead of being more in tune with its market and audience, it relies on outside research consultants, and that leaves the station sounding like your token CBS Corp. or Clear Channel "alternative" station, only with an extra X chromosome.

And that brings up another topic, which I started a thread on a while back (I'll bump it for continued discussion) : Why does just about every station in the market target Females? Even the Alternative station, which is normally a Male-dominated domain, favors Females with a softer take on the format along with lots of the teenybopper pseudo-punk that Male listeners can't stand. Meanwhile, who targets the under 40 Male demographic? Maybe WRAT, but they generally lean toward lighter trad rock acts rather than the edgier bands that this demo enjoys. Perhaps NJ 101.5 is engaging, depending on the program. After that, there are only rimshot stations to choose from, and they are few and far between. That leaves every other station, some of which target older Males (the myriad Classic Rockers), but the majority make Females their # 1 priority. I understand why they are so attractive to advertisers, but I don't understand why the Male audience is being almost completely ignored like this.

 

[SoulCrusher]

G Rock Radio Did It Again!

At the risk of sounding like I'm driving the same subject into the ground: G Rock Radio played Green Day's "Basket Case" twice today, and it isn't even noon yet! They played it around 10:35 AM, and at the 1 AM hour as well.

This is the last time I'll point these repeats out. Heck, if they played a Primus or a Morrissey song twice (they are both very underrated), I probably would not have made a big deal about it. Because the point I'm trying to make is actually not about repetition in general, but about driving certain songs into the ground as far as they can go. And each song that I've listed here has been beaten to death (much like the dead horse that Beejus alludes to). But I guess that's what happens when you rely as heavily on consultants as Press Communications and G Rock Radio does. I wonder if they hired the same firm that works for Clear Channel or CBS?

I don't know who the new PD is going to be, and does it really matter? They won't have much of a voice because the execs at Press and the consultants will stifle it before they even get the chance to open their mouth.

They will probably think of this as playing Russian Roulette, but why doesn't Press have the courage to let the PD, MD and listeners have more of a word in what gets played on G Rock Radio? Save some money, fire your consultants, go in a more interesting direction, and see what kind of effect it has on your ratings. Just do it for one ratings book. I guarantee the ratings will improve. Yeah - we would sooner convince Dubya to change his stance on the war in Iraq.

 

[Herb999]

I read somewhere that the average salary for a male is 41,000 a year and for a female it is 31,000. This means that women get to spend 72,000 a year, that is why all they care about are female demos. ;D

 

[SoulCrusher]

Re: G Rock Radio Did It Again!

At the risk of sounding like I'm driving the same subject into the ground: G Rock Radio played Green Day's "Basket Case" twice today, and it isn't even noon yet! They played it around 10:35 AM, and at the 1 AM hour as well.

SoulCrusher... you are like the Julius May of this topic. You just don't listen. Many people have pointed out to you that a repeat like that DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING. It played during the 1AM hour. ONE IN THE MORNING. When few people are awake to hear it. It's a staple Alternative song, and people want to hear it, so scheduling it at 10:30am isn't a big deal, because NO ONE will say "hey! I heard this song 8 and a half hours ago! what gives??"


For the final ****ing time, focus your complaints somewhere else, because they do nothing on this board.

Yeah, Beejus, just read the first two lines of my message and ignore the rest - that's the ticket.

I'll give you the abbreviated edition: They play "Basket Case" EVERY DAY between 9 and 5, along with a bunch of other songs. The consultants that this station is using are steering it in the wrong direction by repeating two or three dozen songs in the same time slot every day. The only difference: We played it at 1:20 PM yesterday, so we'll play it at 11:40 AM today! The Alternative format has been known to feature less Gold repetition than other formats, but apparently that fact is lost on CBS, Clear Channel, and now Press. Apparently Press hasn't learned from the mistakes that CBS made with K-Rock. I used to think that this station was trying to appeal to the at-work demos, but with all the repeats, I have been proven wrong.

 

[amfmsw]

Beejus is right. I'm glad SC wasn't around when WMID played the #1 song EVERY hour out of Mutual News. In 1963, I thought "Wipeout" by the Surfaris was part of the Newscast! WABC's Shock Clock was 70 minutes!

And don't rely on yes.net for your info SC. MANY times it's wrong.