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Handful picked for Buffalo Hall of Fame
- Thread starter Barefootom
- Start date
A
audioconnell Voice Talent
Guest
Congratulations also to Pat Feldballe as it's nice to see voice talents get recognized in the Hall.
Congrats to all of the new inductees especially Fred Klestine. During my final 7 years in the business, I was privileged to work with Fred and Stan Roberts at WBUF - a couple of guys that I listened to in my teenage years while growing up in the Elmira area. It was also great to get to know guys like Danny, Tommy Shannon, Joey Reynolds, Art Wander and other Buffalo radio greats from that era.
I still remember getting a bit of a "rush" each time I drove by the old KB studios on Main Street just thinking about all the great radio that came out of that little building in the 50s & 60s. This was years after KB had moved next door to WBUF on Delaware Ave.
Larry White
I still remember getting a bit of a "rush" each time I drove by the old KB studios on Main Street just thinking about all the great radio that came out of that little building in the 50s & 60s. This was years after KB had moved next door to WBUF on Delaware Ave.
Larry White
B
Bob1370
Guest
Good choices, one and all.
Now...who should the NEXT group of honorees be?
Shall we start with Bill Lacy and Larry Norton (by no means the only worthy inductees but a good place to start)? And how about veterans like Jack Ogilvie, Lou Douglas and the late Jim McLaughlin? They should be added to that group of great radio news voices, including John Zach, Jim Fagan and the late Henry Brach, who've already been very justly honored.
Now...who should the NEXT group of honorees be?
Shall we start with Bill Lacy and Larry Norton (by no means the only worthy inductees but a good place to start)? And how about veterans like Jack Ogilvie, Lou Douglas and the late Jim McLaughlin? They should be added to that group of great radio news voices, including John Zach, Jim Fagan and the late Henry Brach, who've already been very justly honored.
My 1 1/2 cents. Working with Fred at WBUF gave me in insight to how the phrase "he's a piece of work" came about!! A programmer's nightmare...but he always got the job done...after his BS! A true character, keeping you on your feet. The Hall would be graced with his induction. I'm sure he has something to say about the nomination too...as he was never without words!!
Worthy inductees all, and good suggestions for further consideration. Don Berns and Harv Moor should be on the "must nominate" list, IMHO.
Ditto on Don Berns and Harv Moore. And, it's hard to believe that Jim McLaughlin isn't already in. Ditto Jack Ogilvie and Lou Douglas. Is Ken Phillips in the hall already? If not, he's another guy who should be considered.
Congats to all! It's a true shame that Fred was not inducted years ago, prior to his passing.That's a speech I'd love the hear...would have to be edited for broadcast however! Worked with him at WBUF for several years. Always told great stories and made terrible coffee, always using two or three bags to make hi-test! A jock who truly did it his way!
I believe that Fred passed before the Hall of Fame was created. So, it wouldn't have even been possible to induct him when he was alive. Please know that if you become a member of the Buffalo Broadcasters, you are able to vote for the inductees. So, you can have a say in the process. Many of the names mentioned here have been on the list for induction. Indeed, they are all worthy. And some will find their way in eventually. But as with any Hall of Fame, the number of worthy candidates far exceeds the numbers that can be inducted in any given year.
Which brings up the need for some prioritization. To be brutally honest: How can some of the previously suggested names in this thread not be in the Buffalo Broadcasters Hall? Even posthumously. Henry Brock. Fred Klestine. Jim McLaughlin. And those still very much alive: Jon Zach, Don Berns, Lou Douglas, Harv Moor, Ken Phillips, Dave May. To not have these noted broadcasters enshrined makes a mockery of the process. Larry Norton might some day deserve to be enshrined. But Harv Moor, a broadcaster who has a rich history in Buffalo and Washington, DC certainly deserves consideration before Norton. There is word that certain marquis names get priority in order that tickets can be sold and publicity generated for each year's event. The marquis names are usually suggested by two or three names on the selection committee who deem themselves the movers and shakers of the organization. If this is but a scintilla of this selection process, then the process is flawed and needs to be reviewed. I've turned the oven to 350, wearing my firesuit, so let the flaming begin. -9-Philip_Airtime said:I believe that Fred passed before the Hall of Fame was created. So, it wouldn't have even been possible to induct him when he was alive. Please know that if you become a member of the Buffalo Broadcasters, you are able to vote for the inductees. So, you can have a say in the process. Many of the names mentioned here have been on the list for induction. Indeed, they are all worthy. And some will find their way in eventually. But as with any Hall of Fame, the number of worthy candidates far exceeds the numbers that can be inducted in any given year.
I'm not going to start flame throwing. But I'm very involved in this selection process, and I can tell you how it is actually done. First of all, John Zach, Henry Brach and Jim Fagan are already in the Hall. Secondly, there is no selection committee. Members of the Buffalo Broadcasters Association cast their votes. The votes are counted. And the top vote getter usually gets in. I can't think of a more democratic process. Now, in some cases, the Board of Directors does make a decision on a selection if a proposed nominee declines the honor or cannot attend (all living inductees are expected to accept their honor in person). But under the leadership of BBA President Dave Gillen and Hall of Fame chairman Don Angelo, the selection process has been formalized and various categories instituted so that it's just not talent who is getting in, but the managers and behind-the-scenes personnel who are deserving as well. Plus, there is nothing wrong with making sure the people we select will attract a good crowd. Our Hall of Fame event is the Association's biggest fundraiser of the year, and is allowing us to move forward with such important projects as the digitization of archival news footage. So, we have nothing to apologize for. I know I've said this in the past. I've reviewed the list of Hall of Fame members and can't find one person on that list who should not be there. Again, there are certainly others who are deserving of induction. And if our membership agrees, they'll eventually get in. But I think it's extremely unfair for others who sit on the sidelines and do nothing to say the process is flawed when there are people like Dave, Don and many others working extremely hard as volunteers to preserve Buffalo's broadcasting heritage.
A
alw
Guest
You guys are right......there are names that woulda-coulda-shoulda been put in the HOF by now.
I have an idea....let's put everyone on the master list (about a hundred names in all) in the Hall of Fame at the same time. It would make for a long night; but the process wouldn't have to submit to accusations of being "a mockery".
Song writer Ben Sidran once wrote:
Critics
Standing on the dock
Waving as the boats go by
The process is probably not perfect.......feel free to tell the selection committee (of which I am not one) what perfect process you have in mind. One that isn't a mockery.
By the way, Harv Moore has been nominated along with Bob Taylor (Taylor & Moore).
So far others recieved more votes from the general membership.
P.S. It's a Hall of FAME.....here's a bullet point.....marquee performers always get priority,
It's a Hall of FAME
I have an idea....let's put everyone on the master list (about a hundred names in all) in the Hall of Fame at the same time. It would make for a long night; but the process wouldn't have to submit to accusations of being "a mockery".
Song writer Ben Sidran once wrote:
Critics
Standing on the dock
Waving as the boats go by
The process is probably not perfect.......feel free to tell the selection committee (of which I am not one) what perfect process you have in mind. One that isn't a mockery.
By the way, Harv Moore has been nominated along with Bob Taylor (Taylor & Moore).
So far others recieved more votes from the general membership.
P.S. It's a Hall of FAME.....here's a bullet point.....marquee performers always get priority,
It's a Hall of FAME
My guess is many more deserving Buffalo broadcasters will be inducted into the Hall of Fame in coming years. So, not to worry. There are limited positions on the list each year, but I'm sure before too long that you will see Harve Moore, Bob Taylor, Jack Ogilvie, Don Berns, Larry Norton and many others honored!
What is always tough in any market is also to get the "time in service" vs. "real impact" issue sorted out. There are many "competent" folks on the air in Buffalo radio, who are on the air today, and who have been on the air for 30 plus years! But it is often hard to consider a jock whose career has simply consisted of backselling "ten-in-a-row" or "work force blocks" for Hall-of-Fame status. On the other hand, there have been some "shorter-timers" who make or made a larger impact for a shorter time in Buffalo (Don Berns, for example).
What is always tough in any market is also to get the "time in service" vs. "real impact" issue sorted out. There are many "competent" folks on the air in Buffalo radio, who are on the air today, and who have been on the air for 30 plus years! But it is often hard to consider a jock whose career has simply consisted of backselling "ten-in-a-row" or "work force blocks" for Hall-of-Fame status. On the other hand, there have been some "shorter-timers" who make or made a larger impact for a shorter time in Buffalo (Don Berns, for example).
B
bob-bflooffair
Guest
I have read this blog on the Hall of Fame and find it interesting. I always thought this group had a good idea with a lot of potential. But then so do a lot of other groups.
Philip_Airtime you indicate that you are very involved in the selection process. You also acknowledge there is “no selection committee.” The Association cast their votes and the votes are counted. So far so good.
You then add “and the top vote usually gets in.” What does “usually” mean? The group votes and usually their votes count? Most often their votes count? Sometimes their votes count?
A little farther down you add “There is nothing wrong with making sure the people we select will attract a good crowd.” Well if the members voted for Broadcaster “A” they want Broadcaster “A”! There is no “selection committee” so what small handful of people “pick” who they really want? Is Broadcaster “A’s” name sent back to the member ship and are they told to try again?
Farther down you also note “I reviewed the list of Hall Of Fame members and can’t find one person on the list who should not be there.” Great! I agree, and all the names listed on this entire blog who are not in also deserve to be there. But how did those inductee’s get there? Did you review that process? Can you fill me in on that?
Buffalo has a rich history in broadcasters. Only a few are allowed in.
Al, I also read your blog. I sent you an e-mail that you did not answer. I guess I’m not worthy of a reply.
Al you told me in front of Doris and Dave who the two trouble makers in the group were. You told me that at least twice over a period of time. You also gave those names to other members.
Your blog suggest there is a “selection committee!” Now is there or is there not a committee. You indicate you are not on it. Who are the chosen few?
“Marquee performers always get priority!” Say what? Are we in Florida? When the membership votes they told you who they want. You insist to tell them who will be in there. The member ship be damned.
When Broadcaster “A” learns what happened to him/her it really causes problems. Al there are very few secrets in this group. You added insult to injury!
Later,
Bob Skurzewski
Bflo-Off the Air
Philip_Airtime you indicate that you are very involved in the selection process. You also acknowledge there is “no selection committee.” The Association cast their votes and the votes are counted. So far so good.
You then add “and the top vote usually gets in.” What does “usually” mean? The group votes and usually their votes count? Most often their votes count? Sometimes their votes count?
A little farther down you add “There is nothing wrong with making sure the people we select will attract a good crowd.” Well if the members voted for Broadcaster “A” they want Broadcaster “A”! There is no “selection committee” so what small handful of people “pick” who they really want? Is Broadcaster “A’s” name sent back to the member ship and are they told to try again?
Farther down you also note “I reviewed the list of Hall Of Fame members and can’t find one person on the list who should not be there.” Great! I agree, and all the names listed on this entire blog who are not in also deserve to be there. But how did those inductee’s get there? Did you review that process? Can you fill me in on that?
Buffalo has a rich history in broadcasters. Only a few are allowed in.
Al, I also read your blog. I sent you an e-mail that you did not answer. I guess I’m not worthy of a reply.
Al you told me in front of Doris and Dave who the two trouble makers in the group were. You told me that at least twice over a period of time. You also gave those names to other members.
Your blog suggest there is a “selection committee!” Now is there or is there not a committee. You indicate you are not on it. Who are the chosen few?
“Marquee performers always get priority!” Say what? Are we in Florida? When the membership votes they told you who they want. You insist to tell them who will be in there. The member ship be damned.
When Broadcaster “A” learns what happened to him/her it really causes problems. Al there are very few secrets in this group. You added insult to injury!
Later,
Bob Skurzewski
Bflo-Off the Air
bob-bflooffair said:I have read this blog on the Hall of Fame and find it interesting. I always thought this group had a good idea with a lot of potential. But then so do a lot of other groups.
Philip_Airtime you indicate that you are very involved in the selection process. You also acknowledge there is “no selection committee.” The Association cast their votes and the votes are counted. So far so good.
You then add “and the top vote usually gets in.” What does “usually” mean? The group votes and usually their votes count? Most often their votes count? Sometimes their votes count?
A little farther down you add “There is nothing wrong with making sure the people we select will attract a good crowd.” Well if the members voted for Broadcaster “A” they want Broadcaster “A”! There is no “selection committee” so what small handful of people “pick” who they really want? Is Broadcaster “A’s” name sent back to the member ship and are they told to try again?
Farther down you also note “I reviewed the list of Hall Of Fame members and can’t find one person on the list who should not be there.” Great! I agree, and all the names listed on this entire blog who are not in also deserve to be there. But how did those inductee’s get there? Did you review that process? Can you fill me in on that?
Buffalo has a rich history in broadcasters. Only a few are allowed in.
Al, I also read your blog. I sent you an e-mail that you did not answer. I guess I’m not worthy of a reply.
Al you told me in front of Doris and Dave who the two trouble makers in the group were. You told me that at least twice over a period of time. You also gave those names to other members.
Your blog suggest there is a “selection committee!” Now is there or is there not a committee. You indicate you are not on it. Who are the chosen few?
“Marquee performers always get priority!” Say what? Are we in Florida? When the membership votes they told you who they want. You insist to tell them who will be in there. The member ship be damned.
When Broadcaster “A” learns what happened to him/her it really causes problems. Al there are very few secrets in this group. You added insult to injury!
Later,
Bob Skurzewski
Bflo-Off the Air
There are cases, Bob, where someone selected as the top vote getter either can't attend the induction (which is required for living honorees) or declines the honor. That's what I meant by "usually." You're jumping to conclusions by suggesting anything anything else here. You're also misinterpreting my other remarks. By no means was I saying the organization ignores the vote of the membership to put in a more popular nominee who will fill tables. I was simply stating that there's nothing wrong with having marquee names inducted into our Hall of Fame. This year, Marie Rice received the most votes in the talent category, and she was deservedly inducted. Finally, I can't comment on the process for inducting Hall of Fame candidates during the early years of the organization. I wasn't a part of it. But I am now. And there is a formal process in place, and details of that process are available at the Buffalo Broadcasters website.
B
bob-bflooffair
Guest
Philip,
Thanks for the reply.
I was not there during conception of the BBP. I was asked by a board member to join when they got organized. I was asked by a board member to look at the by-laws and offer some thoughts. I looked and I offered. End of story.
The group had a great idea.
I still would like to hear about the "selection committee" since problems don't revert back to the membership. You and Al need to get on the same page. When I was there somebody behind the scenes changed results.
If the by-laws are the same as the ones I was given they are lacking.
Ask Al about my question on the by laws.
And yes, I left the group. So did a lot more talented people then me.
Later,
Bob Skurzewski
Bflo-Off the Air
Thanks for the reply.
I was not there during conception of the BBP. I was asked by a board member to join when they got organized. I was asked by a board member to look at the by-laws and offer some thoughts. I looked and I offered. End of story.
The group had a great idea.
I still would like to hear about the "selection committee" since problems don't revert back to the membership. You and Al need to get on the same page. When I was there somebody behind the scenes changed results.
If the by-laws are the same as the ones I was given they are lacking.
Ask Al about my question on the by laws.
And yes, I left the group. So did a lot more talented people then me.
Later,
Bob Skurzewski
Bflo-Off the Air
A
alw
Guest
Bob:
I didn't ignore your e-mail, I just decided that no matter what I, or anybody else, had to say wasn't going to make a difference in your opinions. I didn't want to get into a pissing match over the minutae of my wording or Phillip's wording.
A) I was one in favor of your being on the board, but the complaints didn't ever stop until you left.
B) You were right about the state of the group at the time, but it's a different group today. Gillen has reigned things in quite well.
C) We are not the power mad cabal of Machiavelians that you envision. We are basically a social group who decided to honor some of our own. That's all! We're not curing cancer, we're not saving the world. We are all volunteers who do the best we can, and have come to find out that we can't please everyone!
I like you Bob, but I'm done with this conversation.
I didn't ignore your e-mail, I just decided that no matter what I, or anybody else, had to say wasn't going to make a difference in your opinions. I didn't want to get into a pissing match over the minutae of my wording or Phillip's wording.
A) I was one in favor of your being on the board, but the complaints didn't ever stop until you left.
B) You were right about the state of the group at the time, but it's a different group today. Gillen has reigned things in quite well.
C) We are not the power mad cabal of Machiavelians that you envision. We are basically a social group who decided to honor some of our own. That's all! We're not curing cancer, we're not saving the world. We are all volunteers who do the best we can, and have come to find out that we can't please everyone!
I like you Bob, but I'm done with this conversation.
I hate to belabor this but I'm confused by something. Many here mention the "selection committee". Philip_A says there is none. How do the names get on the ballot I send back every year? Someone is deciding on them. The vote may be democratic but I can't remember ever being asked who I want on the ballot (no primary). Just asking...
B
bob-bflooffair
Guest
Al,
I believe that everybody in the Hall belongs there. I believe that everybody in this blog, not in the Hall, belongs there. There are many others not even under consideration that belong there.
I questioned the “selection committee” and how some of the early voting took place.
Al, you avoid the questions and attack, a strategy that may work for you. You’re a likeable guy and I enjoyed conversations with you in the past when we talked about anything but the BBP. Perhaps down the road we can share a beer or two.
I will always remember you as the person who spends valuable time dividing people in this organization. You worked hard to create a wedge between members. Remember you came to me with your plan.
There are a few, starting with Dave, that are the “heavy lifters” in the group. What exactly is your role? Sitting on a board of directors doesn’t require anything if you only take up space.
Your remarks that I am not liked by the board is received and filed. You were my only supporter, I appreciate that. Al, I sleep rather well at night.
I recall other officers who tried to forge change only to be tripped up.
I recall that the Board Chairman forgot to call me with information on several meetings. I did find out a meeting was called at Bassett Manor in Amherst. It was called for a 7 PM start. I got there at 6:55 and was told that a few of you started the meeting at 6:30 PM.
You people never heard of a quorum needed top conduct business! Al you never even picked up the phone to inform me of the meetings. I violated one of my rules…never go where your not wanted.
Here’s the thing. I did not know I was nominated. I did not know I was running until the phone started to ring. People called to tell me they were voting for me. It took a bit to understand that I was nominated to run for the board. I told who ever would listen that I doubt I will get elected. Well I was wrong.
I asked for time to consider if I will accept and I called a few people back to ask what they feel are important issues for this organization. The “Selection Committee” was high on the list. They wanted their vote to count.
I did not take my seat on this board to represent the Board or any Officers. I took this seat to see if we could get some credibility as the same question on how the votes are counted still follow this group.
Maybe the By-Laws have been updated? When I left there was a section for the Officers and a section for the Board Members. There was nothing for the membership. By-Laws dictate what you can and can’t do. Add the Government to the group since you now are a tax exempt organization.
As you know when I asked “the” question at a board meeting, I got a terse reply with a short bit of dialog from you. I think all of us were surprised by that response and I am sure the person would like to take his words back.
At that point Dave put his hand on my arm to indicate to not follow up with any more questions. I respect Dave so I let it sit. Al, just so you know, I expected the opposite response. I was then going to ask for a By-Laws Committee to be established.
Al, I did get elected to the board by the members.
Your last e-mail to me is a show of your personality. Attack, tell me I’m not liked and then sign off that you will not respond. I can handle all that.
I am my own man. I did not allow you to use me. I got that advice from a previous board member who also was approached by you. Yes, you’ve been at this for a while.
Dave, if you follow this stuff, may I suggest, that at your next meeting put on the agenda the “Selection Committee”, real or not. Get rid of it as it now stands. Let the members votes stand. Don’t believe this garbage about a candidate must have name recognition so they can sell tickets. Every broadcaster deserves a chance to be recognized.
Philip_Airtime is correct that situations arise that may need for a committee to make some tough calls. If the “Selection Committee” is required, announce who they are and their duties. Let the membership know about them.
Dave, to you I apologize for this distracting blog. It went from a question of the “Selection Committee” to personal attacks. I hope I did not make your job harder than it has to be. I wish you success.
Shall we end this now?
Later,
Bob Skurzewski
Bflo-Off the Air
I believe that everybody in the Hall belongs there. I believe that everybody in this blog, not in the Hall, belongs there. There are many others not even under consideration that belong there.
I questioned the “selection committee” and how some of the early voting took place.
Al, you avoid the questions and attack, a strategy that may work for you. You’re a likeable guy and I enjoyed conversations with you in the past when we talked about anything but the BBP. Perhaps down the road we can share a beer or two.
I will always remember you as the person who spends valuable time dividing people in this organization. You worked hard to create a wedge between members. Remember you came to me with your plan.
There are a few, starting with Dave, that are the “heavy lifters” in the group. What exactly is your role? Sitting on a board of directors doesn’t require anything if you only take up space.
Your remarks that I am not liked by the board is received and filed. You were my only supporter, I appreciate that. Al, I sleep rather well at night.
I recall other officers who tried to forge change only to be tripped up.
I recall that the Board Chairman forgot to call me with information on several meetings. I did find out a meeting was called at Bassett Manor in Amherst. It was called for a 7 PM start. I got there at 6:55 and was told that a few of you started the meeting at 6:30 PM.
You people never heard of a quorum needed top conduct business! Al you never even picked up the phone to inform me of the meetings. I violated one of my rules…never go where your not wanted.
Here’s the thing. I did not know I was nominated. I did not know I was running until the phone started to ring. People called to tell me they were voting for me. It took a bit to understand that I was nominated to run for the board. I told who ever would listen that I doubt I will get elected. Well I was wrong.
I asked for time to consider if I will accept and I called a few people back to ask what they feel are important issues for this organization. The “Selection Committee” was high on the list. They wanted their vote to count.
I did not take my seat on this board to represent the Board or any Officers. I took this seat to see if we could get some credibility as the same question on how the votes are counted still follow this group.
Maybe the By-Laws have been updated? When I left there was a section for the Officers and a section for the Board Members. There was nothing for the membership. By-Laws dictate what you can and can’t do. Add the Government to the group since you now are a tax exempt organization.
As you know when I asked “the” question at a board meeting, I got a terse reply with a short bit of dialog from you. I think all of us were surprised by that response and I am sure the person would like to take his words back.
At that point Dave put his hand on my arm to indicate to not follow up with any more questions. I respect Dave so I let it sit. Al, just so you know, I expected the opposite response. I was then going to ask for a By-Laws Committee to be established.
Al, I did get elected to the board by the members.
Your last e-mail to me is a show of your personality. Attack, tell me I’m not liked and then sign off that you will not respond. I can handle all that.
I am my own man. I did not allow you to use me. I got that advice from a previous board member who also was approached by you. Yes, you’ve been at this for a while.
Dave, if you follow this stuff, may I suggest, that at your next meeting put on the agenda the “Selection Committee”, real or not. Get rid of it as it now stands. Let the members votes stand. Don’t believe this garbage about a candidate must have name recognition so they can sell tickets. Every broadcaster deserves a chance to be recognized.
Philip_Airtime is correct that situations arise that may need for a committee to make some tough calls. If the “Selection Committee” is required, announce who they are and their duties. Let the membership know about them.
Dave, to you I apologize for this distracting blog. It went from a question of the “Selection Committee” to personal attacks. I hope I did not make your job harder than it has to be. I wish you success.
Shall we end this now?
Later,
Bob Skurzewski
Bflo-Off the Air
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