Rush is the highest rating share daypart at WBEN , except for the morning show.
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Hannity Out at WBEN
- Thread starter Long Time RadioFan
- Start date
Rush is the highest rating share daypart at WBEN , except for the morning show.
It’s all about profit. Not ratings. Ratings do not matter. I have talked to enough companies in trying to purchase other Buffalo stations and the ratings do not matter. It’s quarterly profit. How much are they up with revenue from last month, YTD, from last year, etc.
The only reason ratings would matter to anyone are national ad buys, which are becoming rarer and rarer, as they are sacrificing radio buys for digital spending.
If YRK was losing money with a 12 share and number 1 in the market, they would change the format.
Here is what is currently happening. Groups like cumulus , ETM, TS are not selling any radio stations. They are waiting to file BK, or they are waiting for huge investor groups , and hedge fund groups to buy the stations. I know this to be true.
I have made very legitimate offers to purchase. They want to sell the whole.cluster at one time to huge investor groups that will run it to the ground. They don’t care about good programming. They don’t care about ratings. They care about how much profit they make. That’s it.
These companies are in severe trouble. Believe me. They want out of radio, and in to digital and podcasting.
You’ll be lucky to find one live air personality at most stations.
Talk will survive, but scaled back talk. In other words, cheap hosts.
My fellow board members, it is not promising. And this will happen sooner than later. WLKK even with their dismal ratings was making a little money, because of events. They are now losing money.
Subscribe to BIA/KELSEY. You will get a fairly accurate idea of a stations billing. WLKK billed about 500k per year. That’s HORRIBLE. That was pre covid. I do that with my hands tied behind my back. Star and kiss. Same thing. 2 million per year. HORRIBLE.
It’s a money thing, and it’s gonna get worse
The only reason ratings would matter to anyone are national ad buys, which are becoming rarer and rarer, as they are sacrificing radio buys for digital spending.
If YRK was losing money with a 12 share and number 1 in the market, they would change the format.
Here is what is currently happening. Groups like cumulus , ETM, TS are not selling any radio stations. They are waiting to file BK, or they are waiting for huge investor groups , and hedge fund groups to buy the stations. I know this to be true.
I have made very legitimate offers to purchase. They want to sell the whole.cluster at one time to huge investor groups that will run it to the ground. They don’t care about good programming. They don’t care about ratings. They care about how much profit they make. That’s it.
These companies are in severe trouble. Believe me. They want out of radio, and in to digital and podcasting.
You’ll be lucky to find one live air personality at most stations.
Talk will survive, but scaled back talk. In other words, cheap hosts.
My fellow board members, it is not promising. And this will happen sooner than later. WLKK even with their dismal ratings was making a little money, because of events. They are now losing money.
Subscribe to BIA/KELSEY. You will get a fairly accurate idea of a stations billing. WLKK billed about 500k per year. That’s HORRIBLE. That was pre covid. I do that with my hands tied behind my back. Star and kiss. Same thing. 2 million per year. HORRIBLE.
It’s a money thing, and it’s gonna get worse
Or sell to foreign companies. In June Cumulus and iHeart received permission from the FCC to become 100% foreign owned:
http://www.insideradio.com/free/cum...roval to become as much as 100% foreign-owned.
American companies know not to buy radio companies. American investors and hedge funds know not to buy radio stations. The only reason Apollo bought Cox radio is because they grouped it with Cox TV. Buying a large group of radio stations is not a good investment. Look at Entercom. You can make more with a money market fund. I once invested in radio stations, and got out and bought technology companies. That's where the money is.
But yet (with the exception of a few managers who were shown the door) ETM (and by and large all the large, failing radio companies) for whatever reason keep the people around who helped facilitate the poor performance. In the 'old days' it was the job of programming to create a product that was saleable. And this saleable product usually came with decent ratings. Nowadays, they seem to promote the people (who are usually highly paid to begin with) and who are directly responsible for the unimaginative, poor product that is not billing what it should while trimming those employees who are just doing their jobs. And this is on a corporate level. It doesn't make sense. If, as an engineer I don't do my job and I have stations off the air frequently without a very good reason I would be quickly replaced by someone who could do the job. Not promoted to higher positions and given raises with zero results. Why is it that the higher up the food chain you are the less responsible for doing your job well you are as well? This attitude of accepting mediocrity in your on air product seems to me to be a contributing factor in the decline of the industry.
It depends. The vast majority of what you call the "air product" is either music or commercials. If the music is mediocre, that's not radio's fault. People like what they like, and if it's your job to introduce mediocre music, then there's not much you can do. My question to you is if radio hired actual entertainers to host radio shows, would that make more money? Having entertainers on the air would mean they'd likely play less music. Is that what people want from radio?
To your broader point, most companies (not just radio) are run by salesmen, accountants, or lawyers. How much imagination do you expect from accountants or lawyers? But they're the only ones willing to deal with the regulations required to own radio stations. You talk to a typical DJ and he/she has no idea how to run a company, file regulatory paperwork, or sell spots to advertisers. They grow beards, wear jeans and t-shirts to work, and live in rental apartments. Would you work for someone like that? I want someone who will make sure I get paid, make sure I get health insurance, and deal with all the crap I don't want to deal with. Me, me, me. So that's what brings us to where we are.
However, it wouldn't take a lot for a group of DJs to pool their money (what little they have) and buy radio stations. It happens. But most DJs don't think that way. They just want to get paid a regular salary with benefits and play golf.
and if dj's pooled together and bought some stations, i guarentee you at some point thered be 6 cooks in the kitchen at one time.... everyone thinking they have the better idea and with potentialyl no one having majority control, alot of internal issues
That’s a risk with any business venture with multiple partners or shareholders. In my market, we had a local TV station (CHEK-TV) that was going to be shut down when it’s corporate parent declared bankruptcy. The station employees pooled their resources together to buy the station and keep it going. 10 years later, the station has transitioned from analog to digital, expanded their news operations, and is one of the top stations in our market. Not sure if there’s a similar story for radio.
This is not a revelation. I made the point years ago on distant past threads. There's no sense in piecemeal selloffs.
As you have well-noted. If playing Byzantine chants brought in revenue, they'd have it on the air .
The music, as it relates to CHR, is mediocre. New music doesn't break on the radio as much as it breaks on platforms such as Spotify. In which case, CHR isn't all that Contemporary as much as it's "heard that last month."
Depends on the daypart and the format. In a music-based format, the entertainers are most often in morning drive. That noted, what's the definition of entertainment? It means different things to different listeners. That's a non-argumentative question.
There personalities who are unique and can be entertaining in 30 seconds or less doing music intensive formats.
Says who? According to this, Spotify is #3. AM/FM is top source for new music discovery. That's across all formats, not just CHR:
https://radioink.com/2017/10/17/study-radio-still-rules-new-music-discovery/
What I see is songs break across multiple platforms at the same time, but they get HEARD first on FM.
30 seconds is three times longer than Bill Drake demanded of his DJs in the 60s.
A friend who is a very successful PD says, "30 seconds is a commercial or a speech". That is way too long unless its a morning show bit. Taking the most extreme example, the passing of a core artist in your format, all you have to say is "and we just heard that Joe Schmoe passed away this morning at his home in Anyville. We'll be playing some of his songs today, and here is his greatest one..." and into the song.
30 seconds is an eternity given today's attention spans.
Thanks, Buddy. I figured you knew what was going on.
That is an excellent point. Some years ago, we did extensive format search research in a market of about 18 million. There were, surprisingly, two big holes.
One was for a music form that was very popular, but only among the lowest income groups. The other had appeal with middle income listeners.
In that market, agencies bought income level more than age. We discarded the format that would have gotten us a bigger share because we knew that it would not be attractive to advertisers.
Noticed the dateline on that article is October 17, 2017. That's beyond re-current, Dirk. Doesn't test well either. Highly unfamiliar. And it's burned.
Joe Schmoe deserves at least 30 seconds. Maybe a few rock blocks. Maybe listener phone-ins. Some people just don't appreciate his talent and contribution to the art form.
But yeah, 30 seconds is the upper red line limit, as in no more than... that's why it was used in my OP. So cut it down to 12.8 ... then roll into your 12 unit, 8 minute stopset which few listeners within arm's reach of the radio will embrace.
No problem. Still waiting to see your source.
There is a fundamental misconception here.
Listeners don't want or expect big interruptions between songs in a sweep. But they know stations have ads. So there is considerable tolerance for the ads, and nearly none for the interruptions.
This is a corollary to the fact that a bad or weak song will lose more listeners than a stopset.
So Hannity is out at WBEN, he gets replaced by Savage, and today Savage announces he's quitting radio:
http://www.insideradio.com/free/mic...cle_2b077498-042a-11eb-9552-8352c305cdbb.html
So now WBEN is stuck with a hole in evenings.
http://www.insideradio.com/free/mic...cle_2b077498-042a-11eb-9552-8352c305cdbb.html
So now WBEN is stuck with a hole in evenings.
It says he's leaving in January. Trump will need a new gig by then. "Trump & The Proud Boys" can make their debut...
Considerable tolerance. Right.
Given the Canadian signals, there are at least four viable Classic Rock/Classic Hits signals available in the Buffalo-Niagara Falls market. Choices abound, especially in autos, the sacred temple and perhaps last safe harbor of radio listening. Not to dispute the theory of a bad song in a sweep or a weak irrelevant, poorly executed bit, but considerable tolerance gets mighty thin after the third 60.
Fortunately, in PPM markets we can track when in a stopset there is tune-out. Nearly all happens in the first spot, with a little more in the second. After that, it's minimal.
That's why stations do just two stops an hour. If the first spot is the hardest hit to listening, don't have 4 "first spots" an hour.
I personally think that this logic focuses on minutes and not hours, and is flawed. It is, to use the old adage, penny wise and pound foolish.
I've examined data from 2DAY the FM group in Australia that pioneered the "never more than two minutes away from music" concept over 20 years ago. While I like the ability to create flow and texture in a sweep of 5, 6 or more songs, I also like examining alternatives, particularly in hit-driven formats where you can't control flow because you only have 60 to 120 full rotation songs in the library.
FM beat down AM music stations by doing 8 to 10 minutes of spots an hour. Now, we are at 14 to 16 in many situations. Research has put the tolerance point below 10 minutes, yet stations can't figure out how to get enough buys with lower spot loads.
We don't know the effect of the Buffalo area out of market signals as most don't subscribe. We do now that the total commercial share in the market was 80 in 2018 and is now just under 77. That means over 20 shares to the non-coms and out of market signals. But "out of market" can mean Rochester or somewhere else in the US, so we really don't know where it goes. As a good contrast, Cleveland, which has no Canadian signals to figure in, has 75 local commercial shares... could there be better non-coms, or more listening to Akron stations? Rochester has 70% local commercial share... even less than Buffalo and Cleveland.
So blaming the Canadian stations may not really be a valid point.
Your quoting Radio Ink. Their business depends on the survival of radio. No one hears new music breaking on the radio.
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