Happy 3rd Anniversary, DTV!

[Joey1986]

Well, everyone, today is the third anniversary of when (full-power) over-the-air TV went digital-only!

I will never forget being bombarded with ads telling viewers to take some form of action to avoid losing their signal (loss of signal was not a problem for me because I had cable then, and still do now, and the ads would say that those with a pay-TV service would not be affected, just the viewers with antenna would need to do something). Man, can't believe it's already been three years! Boy, how time flies!

Any more bugs been worked out since then? Discuss!

 

[landtuna]

Bugs worked out? Aside from a few power increases and channel reassignments I think not. The technology still sucks.

The one big advantage, the digital picture quality, is indeed an advantage assuming you have a modern TV which can take advantage of it. However, that continues to be offset by the number of disadvantages:

Loss of signal in fringe areas (sometimes as close at 8 miles from xmtr site).
Reduced signal coverage (distance).
Interference by wind, sunlight, rain and antenna obstructions that didn't bother analog signals.
Cost of upgrading sets to digital and subsequent trashing of analog sets.

Without the massive penetration in recent years by sat and cable systems I think the DTV conversion would have been hung out to dry by the American people. As the number of OTA viewers is only about 15% the numbers weren't there to trash it. It is that bad.

 

[nocomradio]

After three years, all I can say about it is that I used to be able to receive around 15 channels, but now I can get 3. And those are spotty dependent on weather, and temperature. Also when the trees leaf out, it changes things unlike analog which didn't change at all. There is the issue of no fading signal either. Its either on or off and nothing in between.

Personally, I can't see the advantage. Maybe if you live in the city where you are close to the tower its OK, but out here in the country, where the nearest signal is 42 miles away, its been a real drop in performance in almost every way.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

The OMW World HQ is about 20 miles out from the market's main antenna farm (around suburban Parma, OH), and I get all the full-power signals from there with solid reception.

The market's stragglers are the two VHF operations, WJW/8 on RF 8 (Fox) and WOIO/19 on RF 10 (CBS). Their reception is spotty and depends on conditions and the atmosphere.

The good news? WOIO put up a low-power repeater on UHF 24 that I can easily pick up, aimed at the south-central part of the market. I deprogrammed RF 10 out of my boxes and tuners.

WJW is waiting for FCC approval to return to RF 31 from RF 8. There's an objection from their neighbor on RF 30, WBNX/55, but most expect that to be set aside. WJW was on RF 31 pre-transition, co-existing with WBNX on RF 30.

Overall, OTA reception wise, I'm doing much better than the analog days, at least where I am.

 

[kenglish]

Well, everyone, today is the third anniversary of when (full-power) over-the-air TV went digital-only!

I will never forget being bombarded with ads telling viewers to take some form of action to avoid losing their signal (loss of signal was not a problem for me because I had cable then, and still do now, and the ads would say that those with a pay-TV service would not be affected, just the viewers with antenna would need to do something). Man, can't believe it's already been three years! Boy, how time flies!

Any more bugs been worked out since then? Discuss!

You'll be thrilled to know that the FCC, just this morning, approved the plan to eliminate analog Cable TV, and make you get converter boxes for all your sets.
So much for, "Don't Worry. Cable's gotcha covered".

 

[1069_KIFR]

Holy Smokes!!! THREE Years!!?? It almost seems impossible! Honestly? 3 Fun Filled Years?

 

[KML0224]

Three years later and WTNH-TV (ABC) channel 8 of New Haven is still stuck on VHF channel 10. It's not so much their site in Hamden, CT being the problem, as I usually receive their sister station, WCTX-TV (MY) channel 59 of New Haven, with relative ease. I can not receive WEDN-TV (PBS) channel 53 of Norwich, CT at all, thanks to them being on VHF channel 9. I used to get their analog channel 53 signal here with some snow, but it was always in color and still watchable to a point. WEDH-TV channel 24 of Hartford has the same programming and their digital is one of my four strongest signals, thank goodness.

 

[KTN Corp]

Bugs worked out?  Aside from a few power increases and channel reassignments I think not.  The technology still sucks. 

The one big advantage, the digital picture quality, is indeed an advantage assuming you have a modern TV which can take advantage of it.  However, that continues to be offset by the number of disadvantages:

Loss of signal in fringe areas (sometimes as close at 8 miles from xmtr site).
Reduced signal coverage (distance).
Interference by wind, sunlight, rain and antenna obstructions that didn't bother analog signals.
Cost of upgrading sets to digital and subsequent trashing of analog sets.

Without the massive penetration in recent years by sat and cable systems I think the DTV conversion would have been hung out to dry by the American people.  As the number of OTA viewers is only about 15% the numbers weren't there to trash it.  It is that bad.

Which standard will replace ATSC in the next transition a few years from now: ISDB-T or DVB-T? I can't wait for the irony of those converter boxes attached to those ATSC widescreen TVs. Hopefully the firmware updates don't involve changing out boxes!

I haven't watched much TV since the transition.  Luckily FM radio is still there especially with the non-comm band with NPR and the addition of KROI in Houston.  The only TV I have watched is usually the cable channels on my cable TV connection along with internet streams of NHK, Al-Jazeera and recently Deutsche Welle.

 

[Markxxx]

Wow I've been without TV in my home for three years. If I want to watch a show I go to the library with my laptop or the health club.

Amazing what you can do with out.

If I may hijack this thread a bit, I'd like to hear from engineering and other technical types about just what do you think went wrong with the process? From both a technical standpoint (getting signals out, replicating analog coverage, channel assignments) and marketing standpoint.

Of course i'd like to hear from everyone else as well.

 

[ajc_trw]

My experience with DTV was using an attic (one-story house) Radio Shack flying saucer aerial to get Baltimore & Philly TV stations in Dover, DE quite nicely. I even got RF 38 (WJZ then WMAR) with a bow-tie aerial in my west facing window. And on occasion I got stations from DC & NYC.

Before I had digital I used to get them in pathetically snowy analog.

Just the facts dudes. 8)

 

[wrsg915fm]

Our ancient cable system didn't survive the conversion, so I've done without several local stations for the past three years. Fortunately, with DISH I get the available locals (thanks, DMA) for a few dollars more(channeling my inner Eastwood) per month.

 

[Darth_vader]

"Which standard will replace ATSC in the next transition a few years from now: ISDB or DVB-T? I can't wait for the irony of those receiver boxes attached to those widescreen ATSC TVs."

ISDB, obviously. DVB's way too common, open, widespread, free, reliable and, well, *practical* a format for the Gumbint's comfort. If that weren't the case we'd have had it from the outset, instead of the pathetic proprietary, closed, defective TV system we have now.

"Hopefully the firmware updates don't involve changing out receivers!"

It will. I guarantee you that it will. There's not the kind of money to be made in free firmware updates that there is in hawking brand-new equipment. Remember, the ATSC system itself was essentially built on marketing, and you can rest assured any other systems that follow will also end up being diseased as such.

 

[nocomradio]

From the few replies already, I suspect that terrain and location have a lot to do with DTV signals.

I have a pretty large mountain just to my West, and then a full range of them running southward just to the west of it. There is also a pretty big lake nearby and some flat lowlands off to the East. Add to that the fact there are no transmitters within 40 miles or so of my location, and it makes for some really poor DTV reception. The part I cannot understand (at least from what I have been able to read here and there) is how low the transmission power is from the digital stations now. That seems to be the biggest problem in receipt of signals in fringe areas.

Is there a reason why this is? I'm sure there must be, but if its better I cannot see how. That is from the standpoint of the consumer, anyway.

 

[dhett]

Before: about 25 channels, varying from crystal clear to snowy and nearly unwatchable.

After: about 60 channels, all crystal clear.

I'm happy.

 

[w9wi]

Count for my location 30mi. NW of Nashville:

Analog: 4 clear signals, 9 noisy ones.

Digital: 25 clear signals. Lost three of the noisy stations altogether. (however, there are perfectly clear signals affiliated with the same networks)

I have lost most DX. I'm willing to live with that if it means clear pictures on ABC and PBS..... I do however miss listening to Jay Leno's monologue on WPSD-TV channel 6 on the car radio on the way home from work

 

[dave73]

For me living nearly 30 miles SE of Chicago, I get the following from Gary, IN, & I'm going by RF channel. No need to list the subchannels as you get them if you get the RF channel, & that station has subchannels. Overall, it has improved for me, & I'm using outdoor antennas with old-fashion elements, optimized for most channels. Currently use an Antennacraft CS600 VHF antenna & Winegard HD9032 UHF antenna, both pointed toward Chicago, hooked into an RCA pre-amp, model# TVPRAMP1R, then a Winegard HD-1080 for just WYIN, pointed toward Cedar Lake, IN. The pre-amp & the Winegard HD-1080 antenna are combined into a Winegard CC7870 coupler. Only the Winegard HD-1080 antenna is not amplified, due to WYIN transmitting under 15 miles from me.

WOCK-CD on RF 4 (I only get it if I use a pre-amp on my all VHF channel antenna)

WLS-TV on RF 7 & 44 (get them better on RF 7 than 44 right now, & always had problems when they were on RF 52) (ABC)

WBBM-TV on RF 12 (got them when they were on RF 3 for pre-transitional digital with no problems, & w/o a pre-amp) (CBS)

WYIN on RF 17 (this station improved the most, as I couldn't get a clear picture, even with the antenna pointed toward their tower) (PBS)

WHNW-LD on RF 18 (got them in analog, & went digital about 3 months ago, plus 1 of 3 I can get without a pre-amp) (World Harvest TV)

WGN-TV on RF 19 (CW)

WYCC on RF 21 (PBS)

W25DW-D on RF 25 (iffy in analog, but clear for digital & need a pre-amp for this station) (HSN)

WCIU on RF 27 (was fine before the power increase, but since the power increase, the signal went directional with less power sent toward Indiana to allow sister station WCWW-LD to go 15kw non-directional. So I must have a pre-amp in order to get WCIU now) (Ind.)

WMAQ-TV on RF 29 (was difficult to get pre-transitional digital, but 3 months after the conversion, it's fine) (NBC)

WDCI-LD on RF 30 (2nd of 3 low power stations I get w/o a pre-amp) (Daystar)

WFLD on RF 31 (Fox)

WMEU-CD on RF 32 (3rd station I get w/o a pre-amp) (MeToo)

WJYS on RF 36 (wish I didn't get) (brokered programming & infomercials)

WGBO-DT on RF 38 (Univision)

WWME-LD on RF 39 (This one is iffy at times to get, due to a sharp null to the east, which was meant to protect WZZM Grand Rapids, when they were on RF 39, but WZZM returned to RF 13. Do need a pre-amp to get this station) (MeTV & Bounce)

WESV-LD on RF 40 (Need pre-amp for this station) (Estrella TV)

WCPX on RF 43 (Ion)

WSNS on RF 45 (Telemundo)

WTTW on RF 47 (Improved once they got a power increase) (PBS)

WXFT on RF 50 (Telefutura)

WPWR-TV on RF 51 (My Network TV)

 

[quadraphonic]

Thanks DTV! Over the past 3 years, you taught me that OTA is pointless, and there's more to life than sitting with the tv on, even in the background! Maybe sometimes in a weak moment I will revisit you when I'm too tired to fight it and there's nothing else urgently to be done. But for the most part, you've wormed your way out of the cockles and into the background of my mind.

And to think in order to accomplish that fact, the FCC had to make the OTA people buy new equipment so that they can only reach me sporadically, if ever!
Genius move by the FCC there, as usual. Shrewd, shrewd, shrewd. Thanks again for 3 great years!

 

[DJKraze]

Lost: all dx and all distant locals
Gained: Some ok sub channel networks

now some details... (By orignal RF position/Call)

Gone: WCBS, WGBH, WLBZ, KYW, WBZ, WNBC, WCVB, WNYW, WCSH, WLNE, WPVI, WRGB, WABC, WHDH, WVII, WMTW, WTNH (only 20 minutes drive from me!), WMUR, WWOR, WCAU, WHTX-LP, WJAR, WTEN, WENH, WPIX, WPRI, WGME, WNEW, WNYT, WPHL, WCDC, WLIW, WWLP, WFXT, WNYE, WHPX, WUNI, WTXF, WNNE, WSBE, WSBK, WVTA, WXTV, WSAH, WGBX, WEDW, WBIN, WNYA, WPXT, WEDN, WTBY, WLNY, WLVI, WGBY, WCTX (also only 2 minutes away!), WNEU, WMFP, WUTF, WNAC, WEDY, WFME, WFTY, WBPX, WFUT (I feel like I mised a couple somewhere, but memory is a bit weak on some)

Still have: WFSB, wtnh (ONLY VIA DISH, withtout dish, it would be gone), WUVN, WCCT, WEDH, whpx (via Dish), WVIT, WHCT-LP (when it comes back) WGGB, wuth (va WUVN) WRNT-LP, WRDM-CA WDMR-LP, wctx (via Dish), WTIC, wshm (via WFSB).

Multiplexed channels: wshm (via WFSB), WFSB News Now, WFSB Fairfield County, WHTX-LP (via WUVN), WUTH-CA (via WUVN), LATV, This TV, CPTY4U, CPTV Sports, qubo, ionlife, NBC Weather Plus,wgby kids, wgby world, wgby create, Antenna TV.

Other notes: WTNH, WWLP, & WGBY all have come in on rare occasion, but only WGBY can be considered a regular catch. WUNI used to appear before I moved 2 years ago from the north end of town to the south, but I haven't seen it since the move.

If you count everything before & after, there are 74 channels before and (excluding dish network relay) 29 after, not very good. The next time I move, I hope to be able to put up a rotor antenna, then it will be a much fairer comparison.

 

[w9wi]

I guess I see the math a bit differently here...

I count 76 stations in analog, but a LOT of duplication. For example, 13 different ABC affiliates. I count 19 different networks. (counting each independent station, like WFME & WLNY, as a separate network)

On the DTV side I sure do count a lot fewer stations -- just eleven, not counting the ones that only come in via Dish. Again taking duplicate networks into account, I count 17 different networks.

So you have lost two choices -- but that's not nearly as bad as losing 45 choices.

(I'm also quite curious what kind of antenna you were using that delivered good quality analog pictures from four different stations on channel 6, extending from Maine to NYC. There's also three each on channels 2 and 7. I would think a LOT of those 76 analog stations were either noisy, or suffered from pretty serious co-channel interference, or both.)

 

[KeithE4]

Lost: all dx and all distant locals
Gained: Some ok sub channel networks

now some details... (By orignal RF position/Call)

Gone: WCBS, WGBH, WLBZ, KYW, WBZ, WNBC, WCVB, WNYW, WCSH, WLNE, WPVI, WRGB, WABC, WHDH, WVII, WMTW, WTNH (only 20 minutes drive from me!), WMUR, WWOR, WCAU, WHTX-LP, WJAR, WTEN, WENH, WPIX, WPRI, WGME, WNEW, WNYT, WPHL, WCDC, WLIW, WWLP, WFXT, WNYE, WHPX, WUNI, WTXF, WNNE, WSBE, WSBK, WVTA, WXTV, WSAH, WGBX, WEDW, WBIN, WNYA, WPXT, WEDN, WTBY, WLNY, WLVI, WGBY, WCTX (also only 2 minutes away!), WNEU, WMFP, WUTF, WNAC, WEDY, WFME, WFTY, WBPX, WFUT (I feel like I mised a couple somewhere, but memory is a bit weak on some)

Still have: WFSB, wtnh (ONLY VIA DISH, withtout dish, it would be gone), WUVN, WCCT, WEDH, whpx (via Dish), WVIT, WHCT-LP (when it comes back) WGGB, wuth (va WUVN) WRNT-LP, WRDM-CA WDMR-LP, wctx (via Dish), WTIC, wshm (via WFSB).

Multiplexed channels: wshm (via WFSB), WFSB News Now, WFSB Fairfield County, WHTX-LP (via WUVN), WUTH-CA (via WUVN), LATV, This TV, CPTY4U, CPTV Sports, qubo, ionlife, NBC Weather Plus,wgby kids, wgby world, wgby create, Antenna TV.

Other notes: WTNH, WWLP, & WGBY all have come in on rare occasion, but only WGBY can be considered a regular catch. WUNI used to appear before I moved 2 years ago from the north end of town to the south, but I haven't seen it since the move.

If you count everything before & after, there are 74 channels before and (excluding dish network relay) 29 after, not very good. The next time I move, I hope to be able to put up a rotor antenna, then it will be a much fairer comparison.

You must have one hell of an antenna and are on top of a mountain to have gotten analogs from Maine to Philly! ;D

But good analog reception was pretty common in those parts, from what I remember. When my folks lived in western Massachusetts between 1979 and '85, they could get the local Springfield channels (22, 40, & 57), plus Hartford/New Haven/Waterbury (3, 8, 20, 24, 30, & 61), Worcester (27) & Adams (19) MA, southern NH (9, 11, & 31), and the Boston (2, 4, 5, & 7), Providence (6, 10, & 12), and Albany/Schenectady (6, 10, & 13) VHFs on a regular basis, depending on where the antenna was pointed to. Only on rare occasions did the NYC VHFs or Boston UHFs come in. Only the Springfield channels and Hartford's 3 & 30 were clear, but all were viewable. I have no idea how their OTA digital signals are today.

But here in Phoenix, I'm close enough to South Mountain (5 miles away) where the changeover didn't affect my reception much. In the analog days, I got the 12 full-powered stations (3, 5, 8, 10, 12, 15, 21, 33, 39, 45, 51, & 61) clearly, plus low-power 27, 48, and 58 not as clear but fully watchable (48 is the last analog transmitter still operating here).

Now that we're digital, I can also get several Tucson UHF channels - 6 & 18 perfectly, 4, 11, & 13 occasionally. The only local full-powered station I have trouble with sometimes is 10, and I think I have the rabbit-ears set so my VHF reception is good on all three channels (8, 10, & 12) now. Overload seems to be more of a problem here than weak signals, other than with some of the LPTV stations. But outside of AZTV 7.x, none of the LPTV stations have anything worth watching anyway - almost all infomercials and/or religion in English and Spanish.

Overall, I'll say that the changeover was a good thing, at least for me.