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Hardened Hearts & Howie

D

D. R. Tucker

Guest
I could be way off, but I get the sense that if Howie Carr doesn’t decide to drop his lawsuit and return to WRKO soon, the tide of public opinion could turn against him.

While I do believe that many of Carr’s fans share his opinion of Entercom, a fair number of those fans may ultimately conclude that Carr is “walking in grass that’s too tall,” and that it would be wiser for him to concede defeat, return to work and run out the contractual clock until 2012.

Carr could actually become a victim of the class warfare that has dominated Massachusetts for decades. Carr’s show appeals to working- and middle-class Bay Staters who are assaulted by taxes and fees as they work endless hours to make ends meet. With every new revelation about how much money Carr stands to make regardless of where he ultimately ends up, how many of those listeners will conclude that Carr is just a right-leaning version of the Bay State “media elite”?

This isn’t something I want to see happen, but I do fear that folks will grow increasingly tired of this legal fight—and take their frustration out on Carr, not Entercom. The Boston Herald’s message boards have a number of postings from folks asserting that, had anyone else been in this situation, Carr would have immediately denounced the person as a figure unwilling to live up to his or her contractual duties.

Some (not all) of Carr’s defenders have argued that the negative rulings he’s received from the Bay State courts are indicative of extreme political bias on the part of the judges involved—and indeed, one of the judges made clear his disdain for Carr’s Herald columns. The problem, of course, is that the judge in question is apparently a Cellucci appointee, not a Dukakis hack. Uh-oh.

Are all Massachusetts judges witless? No—but you must believe that they all are as a prerequisite for believing that Carr is a victim of judicial malfeasance, as opposed to bad legal advice. I’m as much of a Carr fan as the next conservative, but it seems clear that Carr should have kept silent until September 20, 2007 and then accepted Greater Media’s deal. What Entercom didn’t know would not have hurt them, or Carr.

This legal dispute is happening at the worst possible time for those of us obsessed with politics. I’d love to hear Carr weigh in on the Mike Huckabee phenomenon, the controversy over Barack Obama’s affiliation with controversial singer Donnie McClurkin, and the rising crime rate in Boston. The idea of Carr being in court instead of being behind the microphone during the course of the ’08 election is not pleasant, to say the least.

I hope Carr decides to do the right thing and return to ‘RKO soon. Carr doesn’t have to do it for Jason Wolfe, or Julie Kahn, or David Field, or even himself. He just has to do it for the people.
 
Carr is all about himself. He steals from the chump line for his Boston Herald column, he thinks himself a star.
We've discussed the fact that he's stuck in this region, can't translate to Phoenix, London, Montreal, Chicago, Oregon or even Portland Maine. While he's been in Limbo the calls don't seem to be coming in from XM or Sirius...(when the phone don't ring it's XM and Sirius) and let's be SERIOUS - he could be having real fun with this by doing a 30 minute daily update on the internet and having fun with his newspaper column.
His arrogance will be his undoing. If anything, Howie Carr has given Jason & Julie the big BIG upper hand.

It's true what D.R. Tucker is saying about Carr's hypocrisy. Imagine if Mayor Menino, Bill Clinton, Ted Kennedy, John Kerry - put in any number of the people Howie's been hateful towards - if they had a radio show and pulled what H.C. is pulling, like D.R. Tucker says, you know how Carr would yell about it. Fact is, those named are so above this petty stuff, it's why Carr bashes them so much. As Mike Adams just said on WEEI at 7 PM "They hate you because they are jealous". All the people Carr has bashed can now take this episode and laugh at Howie. This is Howie Carr's drive through the Denny's parking lot in search of Oxycontin. This is Howie Carr's Bill O'Reilly facing harassment suit moment. Let's relish this quiet time while we can!
 
Good question, and reading van Gestel's first decision, it's a bit difficult to tell. My sense is that Greater Media should not have given Howie anything concrete that Howie could then present to Entercom, thus giving Entercom the ability to trigger the "right-to-match"/"right of first refusal" clause. After all, if Greater Media had told him verbally what they wanted to offer him, but didn't put anything in writing until after 9/19/07, Howie could not have presented Entercom with anything, right?

By the way, to follow up Jane's remarks: I don't think Carr is a hypocrite at all. I just fear that, in class-conscious Massachusetts, many of Howie's listeners will ultimately conclude that, if he's going to get boatloads of cash even if he can't legally defect to WTKK, he should shut up, put up with whatever jerks/felons/"empresses"/"coffee boys" there are at 'RKO, and do his job. I don't want Howie to lose public sympathy, but there is a severe risk of that happening.



raccoonradio said:
>>Carr should have kept silent

Is it possible that his contract urged him to reveal any offers, in good faith?

btw the new WTKK site is up and they hope Howie will be added to it. Looks spiffy

http://www.wtkk.com
 
[EDIT]

D.R., of course Mr. Carr is a hypocrite

hyp·o·crite
–noun 1. a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.

2. a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, esp. one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements.

As someone stated, if Ted Kennedy or Mayor Menino were to play these shenanigans, Carr would be front and center insulting them. Do as he says, not as he does, is Carr's motto, and is that essence of hypocrisy.

Just ask the man Carr voted for, George W. Bush. (PLEASE insert Ted Knight laugh here)


[EDIT-reference to deleted content]
 
If you get Tom Taylor's free radio-info.com column via email, you saw him pondering the possibility that
one of Greater Media's "options" could be to just go ahead and throw Howie on the air...

>> " What if…one of those options is simply putting Howie on the air at WTKK (96.9), and letting the chips fall where they may?"

Hmm...would they risk it? Lawsuits could be launched
right away though and they'd prob. have to pull him off
immediately if Entercom got a judge to issue a
cease and desist order...
 
jane grant said:
Carr is all about himself. He steals from the chump line for his Boston Herald column, he thinks himself a star.

Well, who is he supposed to be about? He's not running for Bishop...he's an entertainer.

As far as a star, he is. He is one of the most well known people in Boston....and oneof the most sucessful in the Boston media.

You don't have to like him (I don't) to realize how sucessful he is and has been.

Jayne you arrived on this board recently and seem to confuse your opinions with facts.

You have made it obvious your personal dislike for Carr. (Over and over again)
 
it would be great to see Entercom and Greater Media go at it. Would make for some great threads here and lots of news in the Herald, Globe, Phoenix etc. I say go for it. Greater Media should put Howie on and see what happens. They need the ink.
 
merlin843 said:
it would be great to see Entercom and Greater Media go at it. Would make for some great threads here and lots of news in the Herald, Globe, Phoenix etc. I say go for it. Greater Media should put Howie on and see what happens. They need the ink.

ink? the only ink they'd get would be on a lawsuit for breech of his five-year contract. if howie wants to see how long it will take entercom lawyers to click on the print icon and get the messenger out to dorchester, he'd probably be very surprised.
 
D. R. Tucker said:
I could be way off, but I get the sense that if Howie Carr doesn’t decide to drop his lawsuit and return to WRKO soon, the tide of public opinion could turn against him.

While I do believe that many of Carr’s fans share his opinion of Entercom, a fair number of those fans may ultimately conclude that Carr is “walking in grass that’s too tall,” and that it would be wiser for him to concede defeat, return to work and run out the contractual clock until 2012.

Carr could actually become a victim of the class warfare that has dominated Massachusetts for decades. Carr’s show appeals to working- and middle-class Bay Staters who are assaulted by taxes and fees as they work endless hours to make ends meet. With every new revelation about how much money Carr stands to make regardless of where he ultimately ends up, how many of those listeners will conclude that Carr is just a right-leaning version of the Bay State “media elite”?

This isn’t something I want to see happen, but I do fear that folks will grow increasingly tired of this legal fight—and take their frustration out on Carr, not Entercom. The Boston Herald’s message boards have a number of postings from folks asserting that, had anyone else been in this situation, Carr would have immediately denounced the person as a figure unwilling to live up to his or her contractual duties.

Some (not all) of Carr’s defenders have argued that the negative rulings he’s received from the Bay State courts are indicative of extreme political bias on the part of the judges involved—and indeed, one of the judges made clear his disdain for Carr’s Herald columns. The problem, of course, is that the judge in question is apparently a Cellucci appointee, not a Dukakis hack. Uh-oh.

Are all Massachusetts judges witless? No—but you must believe that they all are as a prerequisite for believing that Carr is a victim of judicial malfeasance, as opposed to bad legal advice. I’m as much of a Carr fan as the next conservative, but it seems clear that Carr should have kept silent until September 20, 2007 and then accepted Greater Media’s deal. What Entercom didn’t know would not have hurt them, or Carr.

This legal dispute is happening at the worst possible time for those of us obsessed with politics. I’d love to hear Carr weigh in on the Mike Huckabee phenomenon, the controversy over Barack Obama’s affiliation with controversial singer Donnie McClurkin, and the rising crime rate in Boston. The idea of Carr being in court instead of being behind the microphone during the course of the ’08 election is not pleasant, to say the least.

I hope Carr decides to do the right thing and return to ‘RKO soon. Carr doesn’t have to do it for Jason Wolfe, or Julie Kahn, or David Field, or even himself. He just has to do it for the people.

A very well-written, spot-on analysis of Howie's state of affairs. In my opinion, the linchpin (as you noted) was bad legal advice received by Carr. That, and a selfish desire to leap before looking (or before at least making sure he was no longer 'indentured.')
 
Howie Carr has enough money that he doesn't get "bad legal advice". You can't blame the lawyers, no matter how sleazy they might be taking Carr's money. He's Mr. Know-it-all and chances are the bed he's in he made all by himself.

D.R. Tucker has an excellent point here: "This legal dispute is happening at the worst possible time for those of us obsessed with politics." But the excellence is that in the local elections happening next week Democrats won't be bashed by a biased angry Republican who has a following. Anyone happy with
Todd Feinburg's ringing endorsement! HA! Feinburg will get you as many votes as Michael Vick.
Good luck, Republicans! Yer going to need it!
 
Jane we are so lucky you became part of this Message Board and came to lecture us all on everything.

jane grant said:
Howie Carr has enough money that he doesn't get "bad legal advice".

And you know this.....how?

Second, you are assuming that good money always gets you good advice. It doesn't.

--

jane grant said:
You can't blame the lawyers, no matter how sleazy they might be taking Carr's money.

How is it sleazy for a lawyer to get paid from his client?

Oh I get it...If YOU don't like the client...then the lawyers are sleazy?


jane grant said:
...and chances are the bed he's in he made all by himself.

Chances? I'm surprised you didn't announce this as another one of your "facts"?

jane grant said:
But the excellence is that in the local elections happening next week Democrats won't be bashed by a biased angry Republican who has a following. Good luck, Republicans! Yer going to need it!

This is a contract dispute between an employee and his employer.

Or a performer and his employer.

What does this have to do with politics?

Oh, let me guess, you're a Democrat.
 
I could be way off, but I get the sense that if Howie Carr doesn’t decide to drop his lawsuit and return to WRKO soon, the tide of public opinion could turn against him.

I'm not sure there is a 'tide of public opinion' to turn. It's purely anecdotal, but outside of special interest 'net forums, I'm hearing no buzz whatsoever about this. Nobody is as popular as they think they are, and nobody is irreplaceable.

While I do believe that many of Carr’s fans share his opinion of Entercom,

Good question, why do you think that? The overwhelming majority of Carr's listeners have no idea what, or who, Entercom even is. One of Carr's mistakes was to try to turn this into a personal grudge match against Wolfe and Kahn. Instead of badmouthing the company which made him well-to-do, he should have spent the time reading and understanding his contract. For most folks, disputes between employees, especially very well paid ones, and employers is strictly MEGO material. Howie's already run the the 'indentured servitude' flag up the pole to drum up sympathy and, with the exception of the brain dead, nobody saluted.

a fair number of those fans may ultimately conclude that Carr is “walking in grass that’s too tall,” and that it would be wiser for him to concede defeat, return to work and run out the contractual clock until 2012.

Most of them think he's broken down somewhere on the Mass Pike.

Carr could actually become a victim of the class warfare that has dominated Massachusetts for decades. Carr’s show appeals to working- and middle-class Bay Staters who are assaulted by taxes and fees as they work endless hours to make ends meet. With every new revelation about how much money Carr stands to make regardless of where he ultimately ends up, how many of those listeners will conclude that Carr is just a right-leaning version of the Bay State “media elite”?

So what? Carr's immediate fate isn't going to be determined by what the public thinks, or whether or not they 'turn' on him. If he returns to WRKO, his listeners will return, although they probably won't be as enthralled by his tales of 'stupid' people done in by their own foilbles, or discussions of people who victimized themselves and then looked for help from outside agencies rather than taking responsibility for their own actions. If, by some act of fate, he winds up on WTKK, he'll do whatever audience numbers he was going to do, and actually make less then he would at WRKO.

This isn’t something I want to see happen, but I do fear that folks will grow increasingly tired of this legal fight—and take their frustration out on Carr, not Entercom.

Why should they take their frustrations out on Entercom, and why would you fear it if they did? Entercom paid him a lot of money, and expected him to live up to the terms of the contract which he signed and they honored by paying him? The mitigating factor here is that most people don't care. If Carr returns, okay. If he doesn't, well, they'll make other listening arrangements, as anyone with any age on them has done many times in the past. There is a lot of talent which used to do some serious numbers which is no longer around, and they passed with hardly a ripple. And you can make a pretty good case that the loses of Imus and Stern (especially Stern) have had far more ramifications, in terms of audience and billing, to their respective stations, than Carr's sojourn into never-never land.

The Boston Herald’s message boards have a number of postings from folks asserting that, had anyone else been in this situation, Carr would have immediately denounced the person as a figure unwilling to live up to his or her contractual duties.

Pretty tough to argue with that.

Some (not all) of Carr’s defenders have argued that the negative rulings he’s received from the Bay State courts are indicative of extreme political bias on the part of the judges involved—

With absolutely no evidence, you may add. The judge in question is pretty well respected, and maintained that Carr's contract meant what it said and that Carr agreed to it. The judge may well hate Carr's guts, but that doesn't mean his ruling doesn't have a sound legal basis.

and indeed, one of the judges made clear his disdain for Carr’s Herald columns.

Yes. By mentioning things that Carr would consider major points of pride in his resume. He was just acknowledging what everyone, who cared, already knew. Of course, the unmentioned point is that ruling against Carr helped WRKO, which has plenty of talk hosts, both local and national, who think as little of public officials as Carr does.

This legal dispute is happening at the worst possible time for those of us obsessed with politics. I’d love to hear Carr weigh in on the Mike Huckabee phenomenon, the controversy over Barack Obama’s affiliation with controversial singer Donnie McClurkin, and the rising crime rate in Boston. The idea of Carr being in court instead of being behind the microphone during the course of the ’08 election is not pleasant, to say the least.

Just wondering, but what exactly do you think Carr would add to a serious discussion of Huckabee or Obama, other than the usual shallow BS? Nobody looking for a serious discussion of national issues turns to Carr, because that isn't what Carr does. He doesn't do 'death pools", dead-or-alives, or 'what's your favorite RMV horror story" because he's tired of discussing the latest Federal Reserve actions. He does them because that is what he does.

I hope Carr decides to do the right thing and return to ‘RKO soon. Carr doesn’t have to do it for Jason Wolfe, or Julie Kahn, or David Field, or even himself. He just has to do it for the people.

My gawd, you actually thinks he cares about 'the people'? On just what do you base this? If Howie comes back, it will be for himself, and the money he'll lose if he doesn't. He's been sleepwalking through his Herald column for years, and I don't think the public's appetite for Whitey Bulger stories is insatiable. Howie need the radio as much, and probably more, than radio needs him.

Regards,
TSB
 
Nobody is as popular as they think they are, and nobody is irreplaceable.

Maybe so but Howie was/is pretty popular.

If, by some act of fate, he winds up on WTKK, he'll do whatever audience numbers he was going to do, and actually make less then he would at WRKO.

True though at least he won't have to worry about signal fade at sunset or Sox pre-emptions

He doesn't do 'death pools", dead-or-alives, or 'what's your favorite RMV horror story" because he's tired of discussing the latest Federal Reserve actions. He does them because that is what he does.


He does entertaining talk...

He's been sleepwalking through his Herald column for years

I'd disagree.
 
Maybe so but Howie was/is pretty popular.

Never said he wasn't. But popularity is ephemeral, and people are reaching the point where they don't care. Dave Maynard used to do quarter hours equal to Howie's cume, but when he left, it was the gold watch, a dinner, and thanks for the memories. Same for a lot of other people. Howie should know this. His game ain't that strong.

If, by some act of fate, he winds up on WTKK, he'll do whatever audience numbers he was going to do, and actually make less then he would at WRKO.

True though at least he won't have to worry about signal fade at sunset or Sox pre-emptions


Racc...no offense, but that whining from Howie was just boob bait for the bubbas. It may be time to separate the agenda driven crap from the real world. Offer Howie 2 million a year to do nights on WNSH, and I can assure you he wouldn't care if the signal clears the ground system. IIRC, WRKO's signal, pattern, and power were the same back when he signed that deal as they are now. And, let's get real here, there isn't a talk host in town who wouldn't love to have their show bump up against the Sox. Just because Howie, Maloney, and Jessica say it, doesn't mean you have to believe it.

He doesn't do 'death pools", dead-or-alives, or 'what's your favorite RMV horror story" because he's tired of discussing the latest Federal Reserve actions. He does them because that is what he does.


He does entertaining talk...


Yes, he does. That's why I asked D.R. why he looks to Carr for meaningful discussion on serious national issues when that isn't his specialty. Howie idea of an important national or international issue is whether or not Whitey Bulger is hiding in Key West or Warsaw.

He's been sleepwalking through his Herald column for years

I'd disagree.


Feel free. Of course, what is really interesting is that yesterday Maloney took WTKK and WRKO to task for discussing Halloween candy on-air and then Howie mails in a wasted page of recycled Whitey photos as Halloween disguises, which I guess is their idea of worthwhile journalism.

Go figger.

Regards,
TSB
 
A few points in response:

Good question, why do you think that? The overwhelming majority of Carr's listeners have no idea what, or who, Entercom even is. One of Carr's mistakes was to try to turn this into a personal grudge match against Wolfe and Kahn. Instead of badmouthing the company which made him well-to-do, he should have spent the time reading and understanding his contract. For most folks, disputes between employees, especially very well paid ones, and employers is strictly MEGO material. Howie's already run the the 'indentured servitude' flag up the pole to drum up sympathy and, with the exception of the brain dead, nobody saluted.

I don't think most of Howie's listeners are so dopey as to not understand who his corporate employer is. Yes, I'm concerned about folks who don't seem to have even a rudimentary knowledge of contract law--they provide me no joy, shall we say--but I think (hope!) they're not the majority. I agree that Carr bascially doublecrossed himself by not understanding the terms of his right-to-match clause.

Most of them think he's broken down somewhere on the Mass Pike.

That's not nice!

So what? Carr's immediate fate isn't going to be determined by what the public thinks, or whether or not they 'turn' on him. If he returns to WRKO, his listeners will return, although they probably won't be as enthralled by his tales of 'stupid' people done in by their own foilbles, or discussions of people who victimized themselves and then looked for help from outside agencies rather than taking responsibility for their own actions. If, by some act of fate, he winds up on WTKK, he'll do whatever audience numbers he was going to do, and actually make less then he would at WRKO.

I'm not sure if all these listeners will return, because you have to think there's a certain percentage of listeners who now think of him as stubborn/foolish/bullheaded as a result of this dispute, and will go elsewhere as a result. I'll certainly tune in because I'm a fan, but I really think Howie has burned himself with some of his fans.

Why should they take their frustrations out on Entercom, and why would you fear it if they did? Entercom paid him a lot of money, and expected him to live up to the terms of the contract which he signed and they honored by paying him? The mitigating factor here is that most people don't care. If Carr returns, okay. If he doesn't, well, they'll make other listening arrangements, as anyone with any age on them has done many times in the past. There is a lot of talent which used to do some serious numbers which is no longer around, and they passed with hardly a ripple. And you can make a pretty good case that the loses of Imus and Stern (especially Stern) have had far more ramifications, in terms of audience and billing, to their respective stations, than Carr's sojourn into never-never land.

I disagree that people don't care. This is the most fascinating Boston media controversy since the Mike Barnicle/Patricia Smith mess in '98. Why are all these message boards--here, the Globe, the Herald--flooded with posts about this contractual fight, if people don't care?

The judge in question is pretty well respected, and maintained that Carr's contract meant what it said and that Carr agreed to it. The judge may well hate Carr's guts, but that doesn't mean his ruling doesn't have a sound legal basis.

You're exactly right, which is why I roll my eyes when people who don't understand Massachusetts contract law imply that there's some sort of vast anti-Howie conspiracy at work here.

Just wondering, but what exactly do you think Carr would add to a serious discussion of Huckabee or Obama, other than the usual shallow BS? Nobody looking for a serious discussion of national issues turns to Carr, because that isn't what Carr does. He doesn't do 'death pools", dead-or-alives, or 'what's your favorite RMV horror story" because he's tired of discussing the latest Federal Reserve actions. He does them because that is what he does...My gawd, you actually thinks he cares about 'the people'? On just what do you base this? If Howie comes back, it will be for himself, and the money he'll lose if he doesn't. He's been sleepwalking through his Herald column for years, and I don't think the public's appetite for Whitey Bulger stories is insatiable. Howie need the radio as much, and probably more, than radio needs him.

We disagree on Howie's value. I don't like every last thing he does--does he really have to refer to gay activists as the "sodomy lobby", for example?--but I've been listening to Howie since he had the Rolling Stones' "Satisfaction" as his intro theme, and you know what? I miss the guy. However, I think it's clear that he is going to get nowhere in the Mass. courts due to the content of the June 2002 contract. He has to realize that he can do this the easy way, or he can do this the hard way. The easy way: go back to 'RKO, make all the money he can, wait for his real or perceived enemies to self-destruct and leave 'RKO in September 2012 in a blaze of glory. The hard way: destroying himself financially with a fight he's highly unlikely to win.

...no offense, but that whining from Howie was just boob bait for the bubbas. It may be time to separate the agenda driven crap from the real world. Offer Howie 2 million a year to do nights on WNSH, and I can assure you he wouldn't care if the signal clears the ground system. IIRC, WRKO's signal, pattern, and power were the same back when he signed that deal as they are now. And, let's get real here, there isn't a talk host in town who wouldn't love to have their show bump up against the Sox. Just because Howie, Maloney, and Jessica say it, doesn't mean you have to believe it.

I can't speak for Howie, but if you were paying ME that kind of money? Shoot, I'd do the show even if I couldn't hear it!

...That's why I asked D.R. why he looks to Carr for meaningful discussion on serious national issues when that isn't his specialty. Howie's idea of an important national or international issue is whether or not Whitey Bulger is hiding in Key West or Warsaw.

I think Whitey's standing on a corner in Winslow, Arizona. It's such a fine sight to see...
 
D. R. Tucker said:
I agree that Carr bascially doublecrossed himself by not understanding the terms of his right-to-match clause.

I very much doubt that Carr, his lawyers, or WTKK misunderstood the terms of his contract. I think they were hoping for a sympathetic judge and didn't get one. Surprise, surprise, even MA judges hold up contracts.

The question I have is, does the new agreement Carr signed with WTKK contain the 'right-to-match' provision? If they are as common as some have said, then I would expect it to have been included by WTKK. And, I would guess that Carr would again sign, because he wouldn't want to give up what it would take to get rid of it. NOW, I bet he'd work real hard to get rid of it.
 
Howie's bosses at the Herald told him to write a Halloween column, so he did. In that case it was
an easy column to do.

Howie on WNSH? Heck I could pick that up even at night. Then again I'm a mile away
from the Endicott campus where 1570's stick is! (I've been on that station, doing an all
Kinks show in the early 90s when they were above a hardware warehouse in Hamilton*, and then
doing fill ins for Doug Mascott's local music show from Endicott. How much I got paid
is just like that cereal: nut 'n', honey! but it was fun)

*--they ID-ed as "WNSH Beverly Hamilton", and who was Beverly Hamilton anyway?
 
After reading this entire thread, I kept asking myself the same question:

DOES THE SUCCESS OF ANY RADIO STATION REVOLVE AROUND ONE OR TWO ON-AIR PERSONALITIES?

Granted...Howie is a source of revenue and can be entertaining (at times), but doesn't the success or failure of any radio station involve the total sum of all its parts....daytime and nightime?

argytunes
 
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