Haritage stations

[michael hagerty]

Re: Heritage stations

It's interesting how many people posted call letters before any attempt to agree on a definition of "heritage." A lot of stations toss the word around. In station promotion, it seems to mean they've had the format longer than their competitors in the same format.

If we set the bar at 50 years, same calls, same city, same format, there are very few "heritage" stations.

Do we allow changes of owners?
Or change of frequency? Like WQXR-FM. It's been classical forever, but in the FCC license files, it's a different station.
Do we allow for formats to evolve? If a station flips from full service to all news, with a (mostly) clean break (like WBBM), it seems like that should reset the clock. But if a station evolves from full service and over time become talk (like WGN), then the clock keeps running.
What about wholesale personnel changes, especially going from local-live to syndicated or voice-tracked. Seem to me they aren't "heritage" no matter how long they stay with a format. Only local-live stations should be considered.

Well, then the problem becomes where we draw that line. Is there that much difference between 50 years and 45?

Is KNX not a heritage station today, but if nothing changes by 2018, it will become one?

Given the speed of change in our world, and the historic runs of legendary stations (KMPC only had 28 years as a personality MOR/AC, WABC only had 22 as Top 40), I think it may be more realistic to set the bar at 25 or 30 years.

Frequency changes should reset the clock, as should a shift of more than one-third of the programming from live & local to satellite.

 

[cd637299]

Haritage?

Sorry to be snarky, but I'm always amazed by the number of misspellings and typos on these boards.

In these times, even poor spellers can go on the web and check spelling. It only takes a few seconds, and especially if you're starting a thread, I would think posters would want to get it right.

I just went on Google, and typed in "haritage." I got back about a kajillion hits (and yes, I'm spelling 'kajillion' right ;D) correcting the spelling to "heritage."

Our OP is a blind person. I don't really understand how type works for people like him, but maybe he speaks into something and the letters come out that way. Maybe he can explain it to us. Nonetheless, I doubt that spell-check would work for him.

In this case, we need to cut some slack.

cd

 

[firepoint525]

Michael brings up an interesting issue, that of time. Take for instance, Dyersburg, TN. WDSG, at AM-1450, came on the air in 1946, I believe. WTRO, at AM 1330, signed on in 1957. My mother was in high school at the time and could probably tell me for certain. Fast-forward to the late '80s. WDSG faltered (badly, from what I understand!) and left the air around 1990. WTRO eventually bought their license and moved their own operation to AM 1450 about 1992. They signed off of AM 1330. I have seen requests on WTRO's website wanting photos and any other station history from either WDSG or WTRO. Since WDSG is no longer around (at least not in Dyer County), there is no WDSG to contest WTRO's claim on history. So can WTRO now claim WDSG's "heritage" (what little there is of it!) as their own? In other words, can they celebrate 70 years on the air in 2016, or do they wait until 2017 and have a 60th anniversary? I have no real problem with them soliciting WDSG's history as well as their own (since there is no other place to archive it), but claiming to be on the air 70 years in 2016 may be a bit of a stretch of history.

 

[LKellerIII]

Haritage?

Sorry to be snarky, but I'm always amazed by the number of misspellings and typos on these boards.

In these times, even poor spellers can go on the web and check spelling. It only takes a few seconds, and especially if you're starting a thread, I would think posters would want to get it right.

I just went on Google, and typed in "haritage." I got back about a kajillion hits (and yes, I'm spelling 'kajillion' right ;D) correcting the spelling to "heritage."

Our OP is a blind person. I don't really understand how type works for people like him, but maybe he speaks into something and the letters come out that way. Maybe he can explain it to us. Nonetheless, I doubt that spell-check would work for him.

In this case, we need to cut some slack.

cd

Sorry - guess I feel guilty now. FYI - The voice-recognition programs I know of do not misspell, though they may choose the wrong word. For example, I used Siri on my phone awhile ago, and when I said "wants" it spelled out "once."

But there's no such word as "haritage" as far as I know.

 

[davideduardo]

Sorry to be snarky, but I'm always amazed by the number of misspellings and typos on these boards.

Beyond the fact that the OP is blind, keep in mind that many people suffer from difficulties such as forms of dyslexia which make "seeing" one's own mistakes quite difficult. And not all browsers and devices support spell checking; spell checkers also tend to barf on specialized interest groups as they don't recognize many terms and words.

And that's without even getting into the issue that English is not the primary language for some of us.

 

[EZway2go]

WBEB did beautiful Music for a long time before morfing into AC.
I'd have to look up how long it did beautiful music but WBEB in Philadelphia has been AC since 1992.

I don't know if I would consider WBEB a heritage station though. Maybe... if they had kept the original call letters WDVR from the beautiful music years. After all, it was the format itself that evolved. But along with the music tinkering came the call letter changes, first to WEAZ and then to WBEB. With its "B101" branding, they've completely taken on a new identity with not a hint of its easy listening origin.

Wilmington's WJBR, on the other hand, sort of recalls that beautiful music era simply by its call letters alone, even though that was well over two decades ago. For those who are old enough to remember, say "WJBR" and you very well may think of when you did hear beautiful music on the radio. Saying "B101" brings back no such memory.

 

[FredLeonard]

Re: Heritage stations

It's interesting how many people posted call letters before any attempt to agree on a definition of "heritage." A lot of stations toss the word around. In station promotion, it seems to mean they've had the format longer than their competitors in the same format.

If we set the bar at 50 years, same calls, same city, same format, there are very few "heritage" stations.

Do we allow changes of owners?
Or change of frequency? Like WQXR-FM. It's been classical forever, but in the FCC license files, it's a different station.
Do we allow for formats to evolve? If a station flips from full service to all news, with a (mostly) clean break (like WBBM), it seems like that should reset the clock. But if a station evolves from full service and over time become talk (like WGN), then the clock keeps running.
What about wholesale personnel changes, especially going from local-live to syndicated or voice-tracked. Seem to me they aren't "heritage" no matter how long they stay with a format. Only local-live stations should be considered.

Well, then the problem becomes where we draw that line. Is there that much difference between 50 years and 45?

Is KNX not a heritage station today, but if nothing changes by 2018, it will become one?

Given the speed of change in our world, and the historic runs of legendary stations (KMPC only had 28 years as a personality MOR/AC, WABC only had 22 as Top 40), I think it may be more realistic to set the bar at 25 or 30 years.

Frequency changes should reset the clock, as should a shift of more than one-third of the programming from live & local to satellite.

Any number is arbitrary but you still have to have one. Why not 40? Why not 20? The lower you set the bar, the less "heritage" means. If we restrict this to AM stations that have kept the same format and license since the end of radio's "golden age" and to FM stations that have stayed with the same format for their entire history, it really means something. In the words of Larry Sanders, "no flipping."

 

[JH_Radio]

Hmmm. WBEB would be considered heritage for AC, maybe? the older WDVR might be considered Beautiful Music heritage in Philadelphia? As for WJBR did that station slowly evolve from Beautiful Music to AC? WPLM from what I've heard evolved from Soft AC to more of a mainstream approach. I only heard WPLM-FM for the first time from an aircheck recorded in 2007, so not sure if they were softer before that.

In answer to everybody's question, I use a screen reader called Jaws For Windows, and it reads the text on the screen to me by voice. They also have things called braile display's, so that you can read what is being said along with the outspoken voice. I have one in PA, not here in FL .
I also have a hearing impairment, so dont hear words correctly. Yes i could go to google or something like word and spellcheck every post I make in these forums. I am understood, I think as i'm working on 30 replys to this topic alone. Sometimes my spelling is so off that the spellchecker cant figure out what i'm trying to say.

 

[davideduardo]

I am understood,

That is the important thing.

It is very interesting to know how you read and post to this group. I enjoy your participations.

 

[JH_Radio]

I use mainstream programs like anybody else does. IE8 (Since I still run Windows XP), MS Outlook, Winamp (latest version) and firefox latest version. I know this is the off topic part of this thread so if anybody wants, feel fre to contact me with more questions (info is in my profile)
Thank God for the internet and there being people to talk radio with, and things such as Tom Taylor now. Radio is an artform and at least somebody cares.
Its like Julius said "Airchecks dont lie." Amen to that.

 

[cyberdad]

I am understood,

That is the important thing.

It is very interesting to know how you read and post to this group. I enjoy your participations.

+1

Back on topic...I'd say IME WGN, WCCO, KMOX would be three "full service" stations that fit most people's definitions of "heritage".

For music, it's a little more difficult, given that genres of music evolve and formats evolve with them. In addition to the aforementioned WDAF, WSM, and WKDF, a few that might also qualify would be WFMT, CHUM, KIOA. All with 50 or more continuous years of playing essentially the same type of music (even if migrating from AM from to FM).

 

[JH_Radio]

WDAS-FM in Philadelphia might qualify too.
WIOQ has been CHR in Philly since 1989
WPST has been CHR or Hot AC (depending on the time period) since 1970 something.

 

[cyberdad]

I was thinking of WDAS, but wasn't sure of their exact timeline.

 

[JH_Radio]

From The Philadelphia Radio Archives:
http://www.phillyradioarchives.com/history/wdas

Inventing A Format
This format evolved into the Urban Contemporary format for which the station is still widely known today. The playlist included R&B, soul and funk, with
songs that became classics of the genre.

 

[firepoint525]

For music, it's a little more difficult, given that genres of music evolve and formats evolve with them. In addition to the aforementioned WDAF, WSM, and WKDF, a few that might also qualify would be WFMT, CHUM, KIOA. All with 50 or more continuous years of playing essentially the same type of music (even if migrating from AM from to FM).

I take it that you are not from Nashville, so I will cut you some slack. But I specifically said that WKDF is NOT (repeat, NOT) a "heritage" station, either in their current format (country) or their previous one (so-called "rock"). The fact that another station was able to come along and bump them off of their so-called "rock" format is proof-positive that they weren't much of a "rocker" to begin with. After 'KDF went country, another station flipped from country to rock, but unlike 'KDF of the '90s, this station actually rocks, too hard for even me! But they DON'T play "wimp rock" and then try to pass it off as the real thing.

With WSM, you might have more of an argument, but even they have NOT been country all along. Their main legacy is carrying the Grand Ole Opry, which they have done since its debut in 1927. But they have had other formats at other times of day, most notably adult contemporary during the '70s.

Our adult contemporary station, Mix 92.9, has indeed evolved from being a "beautiful music" ("elevator music" is usually the derogatory term for it) station back in the 1980s. Whether that has been long enough for them to be considered "heritage" is up to you.

 

[cyberdad]

No I'm not from Nashville (although I've visited a few dozen times....mostly on business trips). As I've said numerous times in various threads, I always stand to be corrected, and I don't mind it at all when someone does that. As an ex-journalist, I value accuracy.

As for WSM, yes I'm aware they had forays into other formats. I remember the AC stuff in the 70s (and thinking that it sounded sort of "half-hearted"). But one could also argue that even when other formats were being attempted, WSM was always strongly associated with country music. And ultimately that's what they came completely back to.

I'd also point out that my contribution to the thread were WFMT (classical), along with KIOA and CHUM....stations I'm familiar with from my own experiences. With the other three (including WSM and WKDF)...I was repeating examples others had given previously.

 

[JH_Radio]

what would you be considering as wimp rock for WKDF compred to the rocker that overthru them??
Wonder if there are any airchecks floating around of the two when the chalenger came around so i can hear the differences.
Would be interested to hear WKDF airchecks before the chalenger too, just to hear what it sounded like.

 

[Kent]

Heritage is always tough to define. I'm not sure there's a time limit, nor even a specific format that defines it. Growing up in Texas and Oklahoma, I know KVIL was a heritage station in Dallas, but it wasn't because of its lite rock format. It was the Ron Chapman station. Once he left for sister KLUV, KVIL tried to capitalize on its long-time AC format, but the ratings have never been the same. The KVIL calls have been relegated to once-an-hour use for the last several years.

WBAP is considered by most to be the heritage news/talk station, but KLIF has been talk longer. Even if you only count the time it was on 570, KLIF was doing talk for two years while WBAP was a full-service country station. WBAP also ran country in the overnights for years after switching to talk. KRLD, on the other hand, is the heritage station for news but has never been all news.

The heritage urban is KKDA-FM, but it was doing disco until about 30 years ago. So, if heritage is 40 years, does KKDA-FM qualify? If not, why shouldn't it? No one in that market can think urban and think of anything else.

Finally, if consistency in format defines heritage, WGN, WCCO, and WHAS wouldn't qualify if you set a time limit of more than 20 years. Even in the early to mid 90's, all of them played music in at least one daypart while they're 100% talk today. WLW and WJR also played music into the 90's while the last song on WLS was in 1989.

 

[JH_Radio]

well... ok when i say KYW people think of news. they sing the jingle.
There's nobody in Philadelphia that doesn't know what KYW is.
WOGL has been oldies for over 20 years. WMMR is known for rock.
I'm thinkin these stations have been around a long time doing the same format. Sure oldies has evolved but still for oldies, people know you turn on WOGL.

 

[firepoint525]

what would you be considering as wimp rock for WKDF compred to the rocker that overthru them??

That question was already answered by me earlier in this thread.

I don't know how they are doing as a country station these days, but they had better be bringing their "A" game because there are two other country stations in town, although now with the Cumulus takeover of Citadel, Cumulus is probably owning (or at least managing) two of them. They also have served as flagship station for the Tennessee Titans. Whether or not they are still the flagship station, I do not know.