Havana Radio Station in Key West

[papaul1967]

while visiting key west noticed you get alot of stations from havana, since its 90 miles south can the key west stations am and fm be received in Havana or they still jammed???

 

[davideduardo]

while visiting key west noticed you get alot of stations from havana, since its 90 miles south can the key west stations am and fm be received in Havana or they still jammed???

Key west stations have never been jammed, as they are nearly all in English and Cuba is not an English speaking nation. The AMs, 1600 and 1500, are too weak to make it to Cuba well, and the FMs are pretty low antenna height, and do not put anywhere near a usable signal in Cuba... not prime jamming candidates since the only jammed US stations have consistently been 710 and 1140, as well as Radio Marti 1180... all three being strong, Spanish anti-Castro voices.

 

[papaul1967]

definitely La Poderosa 670 reaches havana just looking at some of the signal contours http://www.radio-locator.com/ and 710 still jamming? I see what you mean about the fm stations in the lower keys 100kw but low antenna looks like the signal go about 85-90 miles but we all know over water depends on weather maybe

 

[davideduardo]

definitely La Poderosa 670 reaches havana just looking at some of the signal contours http://www.radio-locator.com/ and 710 still jamming? I see what you mean about the fm stations in the lower keys 100kw but low antenna looks like the signal go about 85-90 miles but we all know over water depends on weather maybe

Water is not much of a help for FM, except for the fact that it is flat!

670 definitely does not get a night signal into Cuba... none of the Miami stations does very well with its day signal, anyway. In addition, Cuba has local AMs on nearly every frequency in the AM band, so day signals are not a threat. 710 is not being jammed, but there are 3 local Cuban stations on the channel, effectively blocking most reception of Radio Mambi.

 

[tony marzocco]

If Radio Marti on 1180 is consistantly jammed, why operate it ? Curious question. Thanks!

 

[jcolletta275]

Your tax dollars at work, Tony, your tax dollars at work. They've got their hands on your money, and they don't want to let go!

 

[led]

hello
I am new here and I just a radio listener... I am cuban and lived in Havana... you CAN get WKWF in Havana during day time without problems. WKIZ you can get it with agood radio... WFLG you can get it, if Radio Enciclopedia-AM is off.
Regarding FM, the stations transmitting with 100kW can be heard most of the time in Havana and the northen provinces of Matanzas and Pinar del Rio: WEOW, WWUS, WCNK, WAIL... also WCTH and WPIK too. If you have a roof antenna you can get even those from Miami almost everyday... Castro does not interfere FM stations from the Keys too!: WEOW was before on 92.5, Castro (he is the owner of all) set Radio Rebelde on 92.1 FM... same for WCTH (near Cadena Habana radio) and WPIK (near Radio Metropolitana) and nowadays I think even WWUS has some Radio Rebelde nearby (yes he has the same staion in 3 or 4 frecuencies for nothing... as happends on AM band too).
WAQI 710 AM can be heard good in Havana during day time... night time is not so good... all this when Radio Rebelde is off... same for WWFE... WAXY can be also heard with a good signal, as WIOD, WINZ and 560 WQAM...
greetz

 

[led]

I meant Castro does interfere FM too in someway in Havana setting a station very near to one of the keys...
Radio Marti 1180 can be heard near Havana if you move your radio around... it is jammed with several transmitters, one of them with 300kw (someone told me once).

 

[Groove1670]

I got several post cards while with WKIZ, WKWF, WPIK & WAIL & WEOW. Got one call from cuba while at WKIZ. Listener requested Elton John, ABBA, Fleetwood Mac (That was when WKIZ was oldies

 

[Davie123]

Thank You, " led ", for giving us your listening report, and correcting the misinformation
posted by David "Know It All" Eduardo. I know a number of Americans who have been
to Havana on press junkets, etc. and they have reported hearing U.S. stations blasting
from boomboxes of young Cubans gathering along the seawall near the Morro Castle.
FM stations with dance music seem to be most popular.

 

[davideduardo]

Thank You, " led ", for giving us your listening report, and correcting the misinformation
posted by David "Know It All" Eduardo. I know a number of Americans who have been
to Havana on press junkets, etc. and they have reported hearing U.S. stations blasting
from boomboxes of young Cubans gathering along the seawall near the Morro Castle.
FM stations with dance music seem to be most popular.

The fact is that, other than right on the coast, the Key West FMs do not penetrate far. The Key West FMs are at best 100 kw at 500 feet, and once they hit buildings and such in coastal cities in Cuba, they are going to be unlistenable with anything less than an outside antenna... and remember, until quite recently, that was considered antisocial behaviour.

For Miami FMs to be heard, you need a rooftop antenna, as the poster stated. Nobody has a boom box attached to a rooftop antenna on the Malecon.

The AMs in Spanish are blocked or jammed (same net effect) and even Martí is blocked or jammed in most places. As the poster said, they can only be heard if the blocking station is off the air.

The Miami FMS are too far away to even make Key West (heck, most don't make Marathon) on a normal radio, so they are restricted to the possibility of listening to Key West stations or AM talk in English.

And there are no dance format stations in Key West as far as I know. CHR, yeah, Rock, yes. Alternative, yes. No dance. So if your junketing pals heard dance, it was no doubt from tapes or CDs.

 

[led]

Just some comments again. The 100KW FM stations from Key West can be heard not only in Havana city but also further away in the country side... I remember also people listening to WEOW or WAIL in their cars, but not everyday... WKWF AM1600, jus the same. WKIZ is weaker, what can you expect from a 250watts station?.... People living in buildings near the coast can get almost everyday all the station, also those from Miami. A 50kW station in AM from Key West would serve Havana and the lower keys... maybe something to be used in the future?.. just an idea for Radio Mambi
My conclusion: FMs with 50 kw or more can reach Havana and nearby from the lower keys. AM with more than 25kW can reach Havana during day time from Miami south Florida, if Castro does not interfere... AM with more than 500w can be heard in Havana and nearby from Key West.

 

[davideduardo]

A 50kW station in AM from Key West would serve Havana and the lower keys... maybe something to be used in the future?.. just an idea for Radio Mambi

Except that Mambi is a commercial AM doing business in Miami... there would be no interest at all in serving la Habana. Now radio Martí is a different issue, althogh they claim the statin was designed to cover the broadest possible angle of radiation towards Cuba from Marathon with its 100 kw power.

even then, when there are major surpressed news items that the cuban tyranical dictatorship does not want to have heard, they will pinle the lilowatts on 1180 from sites all over the Island, such as was the case with the Río canaima massacre in the 80's.

My conclusion: FMs with 50 kw or more can reach Havana and nearby from the lower keys. AM with more than 25kW can reach Havana during day time from Miami south Florida, if Castro does not interfere... AM with more than 500w can be heard in Havana and nearby from Key West.

From the lower Keys to Habana is apure saltwater path... so nearly anything will make it, especially low on the band stations. On FM, it still depends on antenna height, and the Key West stations are very low in height... so the inland penetration when they make landfall is going to be sever on an already weak signal... around 40 dbu when it goes footdry.

 

[led]

About Mambi, I do not agree: I am pretty sure that Mambi would love to be in Havana since it is a station for cubans in Miami and anti-Castro... I listen to it on the net, and I am sure a lot of people in Cuba would enjoy to listen to it, mainly because of the anti-Castro shows... I am talking about a post-Castro era. Besides I am sure the marine trafic between the Keys, Miami, etc and Cuba will be very high so why not to listen to a station that give info about both sides of the see while fishing?

 

[led]

About the FM from the Keys, I do say once more that you can get them without too much trouble... those of 100kw... sometimes even without antenna (the normal antenna of a radio I mean) probably because of atmospheric reflection. I almost never listened to the cuban radio, I always was moving from WEOW (WFYN) to WWUS, WAIL, WPIK... WCTH... and I was not the only one...

 

[davideduardo]

About the FM from the Keys, I do say once more that you can get them without too much trouble... those of 100kw... sometimes even without antenna (the normal antenna of a radio I mean) probably because of atmospheric reflection. I almost never listened to the cuban radio, I always was moving from WEOW (WFYN) to WWUS, WAIL, WPIK... WCTH... and I was not the only one...

How far inland can you get? The signals from Cayo Hueso are about 40 dbu when they get to Cuba, so they are going to be horribly sensitive to blockage of any kind... that's just straight laws of physics on height, power and distance.

Except for ducting, which is not a constant effect, FMs travel strict line of sight, although there is refraction from the saline content in the atmosphere which may affect this in a positive way. There have not been many studies of this at FM frequencies, but a lot at microwave frequencies up around 960 mHz. So your observations are pretty interesting.

What did it take, and how far from the ocean, to get any Miami FM? I would imagine ones like WRTO on the Redlands (south of Miami) tower came in better than the ones on the Gannet Tower (Dade / Broward line, maybe 40 miles north).

When in your expereince did the government stop caring what people listened to on the radio? I know many who were arrested, lost rations, or otherwise harassed for listening to US staitons... of course, they are in the US now.

 

[led]

I lived about 5Km from Havana coast, and about 10m above sea level... But on the country side, I also could get the 100kw stations, that is about 50-60Km from the coast... and that was with a big russian radio-record player having as antenna only a piece of 300 ohm cable... it is true that there were no industries around, but the radio was inside a building... I could get also WKWF there...
The FM signal travels like light, but it can reflect at some aftmospheric levels when there are some inestability, clouds etc like happends in the area between the keys and Cuba. There are some laws and formulas for that.
AM signal travels better over the sea, so it is not strange to get WKWF in Havana or Mambi, particularly if you see their radiation pattern. Have you seen the radiation pattern of Mambi and WWFE on day time? : http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WWFE&service=AM&status=L&hours=D
or WKWF: http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WKWF&service=AM&status=L&hours=D

For listening to music radio stations inside your home none would put you in jail... but if you play Radio Marti or Radio mambi in front of you house door 24H per day, I am sure you would get the visit of the police... then and now.
By the way, I am graduated from Physics at Univ of Havana.

 

[davideduardo]

AM signal travels better over the sea, so it is not strange to get WKWF in Havana or Mambi, particularly if you see their radiation pattern. Have you seen the radiation pattern of Mambi?

I have actually been inside the transmitter building of Mambí when we were rebuilding the directional about a decade ago. A caution: the radio-locator.com maps are much exaggerated. The usable metro area coverage is about 25% INSIDE the innermost red contour... but for DX on AM, there is essentially no limit. For decades WAQI, WQBA and one or two others were jammed in one way or another. WQBA, from the 60's, had a hetrodyne carrier on it produced by several transmitters in Cuba on about 1141.5 to 1142 kHz broadcasting a warble tone. Mambí has had 3 to 5 local transmitters in the 1 to 30 kw range, all doing programming on one of the national networks, but effectively blocking landfall of 710 in most of Cuba.

For listening to music radio stations inside your home none would put you in jail... but if you play Radio Marti or Radio mambi in front of you house door 24H per day, I am sure you would get the visit of the police... then and now.

Back "in the day" in the pre and post Mariel era (I was manager of a Miami Cuban station at that time and have worked with WCMQ, WQBA, WAQI, WAMR and WRTO) listening to any "foreign" station was considered an offense, music or talk back then... and repeated incidents could get you considered an antisocial element, and if combined with other offenses like selling eggs, you might have gotten threatened with a visit to Combinado del Este or somesuch.

[/quote]By the way, I am graduated from Physics at Univ of Havana.
[/quote]

What do you do now? It's interesting that a well trained person in an important discipline was allowed to leave!

 

[Davie123]

Oh, it hurts to be wrong doesn't it Mr. David "Know It All" Eduardo? And the more flack you throw up,
the more you are going down in flames! My friends heard WEOW ID's and promos, so let me assure you
they were not listening to tapes. And I think you will find that the station has been a very dance oriented
CHR for much of it's history. You don't want to accept an actual reception report from someone IN HAVANA
so there is no sense arguing with you. When there is nothing but water between the two cities, FM signals
might do surprising things. But if you want to rely on your contour studies, fine, but you are wrong. People
in Havana and parts of Cuba have been listening to Key West FM ,and even some AM stations for a long time,
not just since Castro "retired". Maybe they have helped the trend toward more openess in Cuba !
P.S., If you really want to feel foolish, call WEOW in Key West and ask the DJ's if they ever hear from listeners
in Cuba. You won't like the answer.

 

[davideduardo]

Oh, it hurts to be wrong doesn't it Mr. David "Know It All" Eduardo? And the more flack you throw up,
the more you are going down in flames! My friends heard WEOW ID's and promos, so let me assure you
they were not listening to tapes.And I think you will find that the station has been a very dance oriented CHR for much of it's history.

For the sake of peace, I'll accept that at face value. I've heard that station, and personally I'd not consider it dance but CHR. But that is splitting hairs...

You don't want to accept an actual reception report from someone IN HAVANA
so there is no sense arguing with you.

One thing is beachfront reception and another is inside buildings inland. I used to get occasional beachfront reception at Guánica, PR, from Venezuelan FMs, but never heard a peep from one any distance inland, even though inland was much higher.

Thus my questions to the original poster about how far from the shore you can get Keys FMs, because it looks like they should not penetrate more than a few km, less where there are multi-storied buildings. There is very little science on over-saltwater FM reception so empirical evidence like this is interesting. Everything I know about the reception of US stations in Cuba comes from 80's era immigrants and 80s era receivers, so with more stations and perhaps more of them with FM, different things can be learned.

When there is nothing but water between the two cities, FM signals
might do surprising things.

I don't think it is related as much to water as possible inversion or thermal zones between southern FL and Cuba. As I said, there is little written about this as there is no practical use for the data. The only other comments I have ever heard were from the CE of several Hawaiian stations (for Cece Heftel) about inter-island reception.

But if you want to rely on your contour studies, fine, but you are wrong. People
in Havana and parts of Cuba have been listening to Key West FM ,and even some AM stations for a long time,
not just since Castro "retired".

The AMs we know about. Castro, after a brief spell of jamming even things like WFLA 970, opted to jam only Spanish broadcasts on AM that were critical of the regime. We all guess he figured the bulk of the population did not know enough English to listen to 610 or 560 or 940 from Miami, so they could save the costs. And listening to 1180 or 1140 or 710 were, in the 80's, considered antisocial behaviour. I have no idea why anyone would listen to WKWF or the old WKIZ in Cuba, even in the era that WKIZ was a Radio Unica Spanish affiliate.

FMs are different. The only thing to study are the Key West stations, and all we have is one very educated "radio aficionado" who tells us he could hear the Keys stations... I still question whether the quality of reception he got was the sort anyone else, inland, would tolerate.

Maybe they have helped the trend toward more openess in Cuba !
P.S., If you really want to feel foolish, call WEOW in Key West and ask the DJ's if they ever hear from listeners
in Cuba. You won't like the answer.

When I was a kid in Omena in Northern Michigan, I listened to WLS, even in the daytime. Other folks thought it was all static. I loved it, and there were no comparable locals... no locals at all, so I didn't hear the static. It depends on motivation. I am suspecting that the same sort of situation exists in Cuban reception of US stations in general.

Of course, at night I used to call XEB in Mexico City and request songs. The announcer often acknowledged calls from the US... but that does not make the signal generally usable and fun to listen to for all.