Havana Radio Station in Key West

[Davie123]

The original poster asked the question if Key West stations can be heard in Havana.
They can, and our Cuban correspondent seems to indicate they are quite audible.
I know this sticks in the craw of the Miami hispanic community, because they feel that no
communication, or trade, should occur between the U.S. and Cuba until it is free.
(Except the recently-exposed-as-corrupt Radio / TV Marti , of course.) But while
the communist government jams those useless stations, the people of Cuba have been
listening to good old U.S. commercial radio for many years, apparently without impunity.

 

[davideduardo]

But while
the communist government jams those useless stations, the people of Cuba have been
listening to good old U.S. commercial radio for many years, apparently without impunity.

And how many people in Cuba do you think know enough English to really understand the US stations? The Key West operations being an exceptions since they are so close to Cuba, probably 95% or better of all cCubans can not hear them in any way.

The English AMs definitely get in with some regularity, but they are mostly talk and mostly irrelevant to Cubans beyond the fact that most can't understand them.

 

[vibe]

Re; FM propogation over salt water-when we were in Yarmouth NS we were able to get both the Portland ME and Bangor ME FM's from 100-150 mi as the crow flies and got those same stations at the motel where we stayed 3 mi inland. Also got some of the St John New Brunswick FM's as well, about the same distance as the ones from Maine. Also got 94.9 WHOM from at least 250 mi. The stations were not real strong but listenable and the stereo was locked in. We got many of these stations when driving up the N coast toward Digby NS as well. We were there only 3 days; not sure if we hit a "tropo light" stuation at that time. AM reception really kicked ass, unbelieveable despite a poor AM car radio.
Re Key West 1600- I have that on a preset for the car radio (one w/ a good AM tuner) when in Englewood FL, at least 160-200 air miles N of Key West on a salt water path. I'd rather listen to a weaker station with the programming I'm interested in. I even get the X banders from the "Redneck Riviera" from at least 350 mi away during the day as well as a listenable WWL (at least 500 mi over the Gulf).

 

[Davie123]

David Eduardo wrote:
And how many people in Cuba do you think know enough English to really understand the US stations?

Ahhh, it's the old "they don't speak english so they can't possibly listen to english-language radio" argument.
Spoken like a true hispanic radio programming executive. This myth has been propagated by hispanic radio,
especially in Miami, to convince marketers that there is no other way to reach latins. My friends who visited
Cuba were shocked by how much english was spoken to them, even by people on the street who recognized
them as Americans. Maybe they learned it from hearing Key West radio? And let's remember, music is a universal
language. Cha,cha,cha !

 

[Davie123]

P.S.
Did you know they teach english at many Cuban schools? Google it, and you will be amazed at how
many references come up. Apparently, russian has fallen out of favor, for obvious reasons. 8)

 

[led]

During Batista times (before Castro) you could learn English at secondary school.. my mother did so... a lot of old Cubans even came to work for few months to the US to make a small fortune and go back to start their own business (the barber of my neighborhood did so, he worked in NY)... you did not even need a Visa to come to the US for few months… middle class people studied at US universities... there were 2 ferries per day between Havana and Key West... but that is old history.
I had English lessons at secondary school, also at the university... and that is so for all pupils there... the quality is not that good but nowadays I think most people wants to learn at least basic English.
Hollywood movies were never banned by Castro, they were played on TV almost everyday, some even before than in the US TVs... Castro did not pay the licenses to uncle Sam, his enemy numero uno...
I would say more than 50% of young population in Cuba (between ages of 19 and 40) can understand and speak some English

 

[led]

David Eduardo said: I have no idea why anyone would listen to WKWF or the old WKIZ in Cuba, even in the era that WKIZ was a Radio Unica Spanish affiliate.

Well David-Eduardo, at those times WKWF played kind of 'music of your life' format with those great American singers of the 50-60-70s... my mother liked a lot when I was listening to WKWF... me too... afterwards they changed for news/talk/ sports..; not so interesting unless you are a sports fan (I am not) or want to improve your English... or listen to the news at the top of the hour...

WKIZ had also a lot of listeners... once where I was working in Cuba, I went to the library... there was none around, I went into the offices to request something... none around, just a radio playing some oldies... suddenly the station jingle came in ' fithteen hundred AM W-K-I-Z'... I was happy that someone there was listening music from WKIZ at work... by the way, the listener was a former teacher of English language and staff of the library… she came out of the toilets very fast and switch off the radio…

 

[davideduardo]

Ahhh, it's the old "they don't speak english so they can't possibly listen to english-language radio" argument. Spoken like a true hispanic radio programming executive. This myth has been propagated by hispanic radio, especially in Miami, to convince marketers that there is no other way to reach latins.

And the fact is that about 60% of all Hispanics in Miami do not ever listen to English radio.

Part is ability... around 65% of all Miami Hispanics are Spanish dominant, meaning they know no English or only a tiny bit. Unless you really like some kind of English language music... which does happen... you are unlikely to listen to English radio at all.

If you know more English, then you might find some things in English to like, but remember there is a cultural aspect. A Spanish talk station will talk about your culture and things you care about. An English one will seem very provincial, lacking a world view and appearing trivial by contrast.

As to music, unless a person grew up in the US, or in a generally affluent atmospehere in Latin America (the people least liekly to emigrate unless fror political reasons) most people do not "acquire" a taste for English language music...

My friends who visited
Cuba were shocked by how much english was spoken to them, even by people on the street who recognized
them as Americans.

That is common in Puerto Rico, too. Around the tourist areas, you find both the tourism industry workers, hired for their English knowledge, and people in the $1,000,000 condos through the areas sof San Juan where the hotels are and who went to St. Johns or Baldwin School (as MY daughters did) and know some English. But if you leave the tourist areas, you find that a very thin percentage of Puerto ricans are proficient in English, including a majority who speak none at all... in Puerto Rico, USA.

Maybe they learned it from hearing Key West radio? And let's remember, music is a universal
language. Cha,cha,cha !

Right. That explains the stations in Minneapolis that play vallenato and salsa.

 

[Davie123]

Well, again, we have report from "led" in Cuba, and he estimates that 50% of the under-50 demographic
is fairly proficient in english, and I'll bet you a "Cuba Libre" these young people dance to the music of "50 Cent" and
"Ludacris" and many other contemporary U.S. artists. So my real point here is, and it's something we should all be celebrating, the people of Cuba have found many ways to circumvent the media controls of their dictatorial government. Many of them, especially the young, are very hip to American culture and this phenomenon has
proven to be a factor in the fall of other communist governments. I have enjoyed this lively discussion, and let's all hope that American commercial radio is playing a role in the democratization of Cuba. It is clear that Radio Marti is not doing the job !

 

[davideduardo]

Well, again, we have report from "led" in Cuba, and he estimates that 50% of the under-50 demographic
is fairly proficient in english, and I'll bet you a "Cuba Libre" these young people dance to the music of "50 Cent" and "Ludacris" and many other contemporary U.S. artists.

50% of the under-50 population of Puerto Rico is not proficient in English. In Cuba, I doubt it is evan 10%, outside the tourist areas. In Puerto Rico, USA, no stations play Fitty and Akon and Ludacris... the music depends too much on understanding the message; in general that kind of music has very, very limited exposure in Latina America, although there are plenty of reggaetón, rap and hip hop artists doing their thing in Spansh.

If you go to Argentina or Chile or Honduras or Ecuador, you will find a small percentage that range from bilingual to able to speak simple English... most belong to upper and upper middle class, a group that does not emigrate because they live very well in their own country and culture.

So my real point here is, and it's something we should all be celebrating, the people of Cuba have found many ways to circumvent the media controls of their dictatorial government. Many of them, especially the young, are very hip to American culture and this phenomenon has proven to be a factor in the fall of other communist governments.

The fall or the USSR and the change in all eastern Europe had to do with the destruction of the Soviet economy. It was not a revolution but and evolution.

I have enjoyed this lively discussion, and let's all hope that American commercial radio is playing a role in the democratization of Cuba. It is clear that Radio Marti is not doing the job !

A few people with good radios in the small area where a couple of Key West stations make limited landfall is not going to help change the government. Go out to Torriente, Matanzas, where the train used to stop for water and fuel. and see how many English speakers you find... and how many have listened to US radio. In both cases, the answer is zero.

Martí has served a useful purpose. in years when there was less freedom, one of the few ways the atrocities of the government, like Río Canaíma, was through Marti. In Miami, it's rare to find anyone who came post-Mariel who did not listen to Martí and realize, through it, how evil Castro the executioner was.

 

[Davie123]

David, I realize that Havana is not one of your markets currently, but you might want to catch up
with the musical trends down there, for future consideration. Your statements would be a surprise
to the thousands of young Cubans who will be attending the 14th Annual Cuban Hip Hop Festival,
which features local "raperos" as well as many from Europe and THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
Want to learn more?...look up "Cuban Hip Hop" in Wikipedia.

 

[adamgre]

I was on A cruise earlier this year..it started in Ft. Lauderdale and went around Cuba then onto Cozumel. MX and back the same way...tried the radio quite a few times and noticed the all the kinds of signals on 710am....it sounded like 4 different stations all at the same time...also got the annoying ticking clock station on quite a few AM's. I don't remember hearing anything from FL. On FM, the stations from Key West came in quite good around the northern part of Cuba. one of the most interesting radio experiences I have had when traveling. another thing..it is hard to pick up cuban stations around cozumel.....they get a few from cancun, but very weak.

 

[davideduardo]

David, I realize that Havana is not one of your markets currently, but you might want to catch up
with the musical trends down there, for future consideration. Your statements would be a surprise
to the thousands of young Cubans who will be attending the 14th Annual Cuban Hip Hop Festival,
which features local "raperos" as well as many from Europe and THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
Want to learn more?...look up "Cuban Hip Hop" in Wikipedia.

The ariticle you mention is mostly focused on developments in the early and mid 1990's, and fails to make clear that rap in spanish transitioned to what today is broadly called reggaetón.

Reggaetón is an active music genre inside CHR throughout Latin America, with playlists from stations as far as Chile containing plenty of Wisin & Yandel, Héctore "El father" and Daddy Yankee and such. Today, rap, hip hop in Spanish (Like the now inactive Sindicato Argentino del Hip Hop) and such are considered part of the overall reggaetón movement.

One of the few active examples named in the article, which seems more a political statement than a description of a music style, Orishas, which had little success until the band emigrated, has done four albums for Universal but achieved very limited Latin American airplay and sales. Perhaps its ultra-Cuban Santería name and subject matter has something to do with this.

In any case, are you trying to convince us that there is a big English language rap following in Cuba? There isn't. There is, like everywhere in LAtin America, a large following for reggaetón and its derivitives, and except for a few crossover attempts, reggaetón is about 99% in Spanish.

The only thing differentiating Cuban reggaetón from that of PR and Panama and other places is the decidedly political or social lyric content. You don't have Ivy Queen or Alexis & Fido doing political reggaetón, of course.

 

[Davie123]

On FM, the stations from Key West came in quite good around the northern part of Cuba. one of the most interesting radio experiences I have had when traveling. [/quote]

Another real world verification that Key West stations are heard clearly on the northern coast of Cuba. Let me clarify a previous statement. There is some question whether the Cuban Hip Hop Festival is continuing. When I Googled it, I saw a long history of the festival dating back to 1995, and reports that many U.S. hip hop groups have performed, but can't find a schedule for 2008.
The point I was making is that young Cubans "dance to" American hip hop, and are familiar with the artists. The contention that
they would only listen to hip hop artistis in Spanish is just plain wrong. Maybe "led" , our Cuban correspondent can clarify this issue. No, American cultural influences like hip hop won't individually bring down the communist government, but they increase the desire for the freedoms of American society, and that can't be bad ! I agree that the communist Russian government failed
because the economy collapsed, but the people of Eastern European countries became westernized at light speed because they had already begun adopting western ways, even before the USSR imploded. I believe the same phenomenon will occur when Cuba becomes free, and music from American radio will have played a significant role.

 

[davideduardo]

Another real world verification that Key West stations are heard clearly on the northern coast of Cuba.

There is no doubt that the Key West stations get into Cuba along the coast in the area between La Habana and Matanzas and maybe as far east as Cárdenas. But Cuba has a nearly 800 mile northern coastline, and no FM at 500 feet is going to cover more than a hundred miles of it, even substituting a degree of optimism for a respect for the laws of physics.

Maybe 2% of all Cuba can, with ease in some places and effort in others, pick up these stations.

The point I was making is that young Cubans "dance to" American hip hop, and are familiar with the artists.

Mostly, they dance to and listen to Spanish language reggaetón, which includes, today, the smaller genres of Spanish rap and hip hop as well. The fact that some festival years ago had some radical rappers from the US, present more as a political statement, is irrelevant. There is practically no interest in English rap and Hip Hop anywhere in Latin America, and there never has been.

The contention that they would only listen to hip hop artistis in Spanish is just plain wrong.

The fact that English hip hop artists get nearly no airplay (unless they do a rhythmic crossover and do it in a duo with Shakira or Alejandro Sanz) anywhere in Latin America. There is Spanish language reggaetón to be had in large quantities, and the English of American hip hop is enormously hard to understand if it can be at all by non-Native speakers.

music from American radio will have played a significant role.

You got da wrong island, mon. Ganja comes from Jamaica.

 

[strangelove]

So... when is someone in this thread going to accuse someone else of working for James Crystal?

 

[led]

Definitively the South Florida stations had played and play a role in giving another view of the world to people in Cuba, for mostly young but also old people... not only with news but mainly with great music!
I do not think 2% of people in Cuba can understand/ speak english... I think it is much more, about 25% being conservative...(we are talking of a country of 11000 000 inhabitants)

 

[Davie123]

Thank you for your insight "led". It is great that you are able to participate in this forum,
since it may not have been possible during the more restrictive policies of the government.
The other participants in this discussion, including myself, have not been to Cuba so we have
limited information about radio listening and music preferences in the Havana area. You sound
like a true lover of radio and music, so we hope to hear more from you in the future.

 

[davideduardo]

Definitively the South Florida stations had played and play a role in giving another view of the world to people in Cuba, for mostly young but also old people... not only with news but mainly with great music!
I do not think 2% of people in Cuba can understand/ speak english... I think it is much more, about 25% being conservative...(we are talking of a country of 11000 000 inhabitants)

Please reread my post. It is quite obvious that your command of English requires that you reread things at least a second time before commenting on their meaning.

I said that the Key West radio stations would likely cover (with anything from poor to reasonable reception) only about 2% of the land mass of Cuba. It would, therefore, be nearly impossible for those stations to have had much influnece on any significant number of persons.

Having listened to the Key West stations, I can say I agree with most people who think that the Floriday Keys radio market is among the very worst in the US. There is practically no news on FM, most are automated much if not all the day, and they are, as a group, money losing stations. With the average billing being around $22,000 a month, there is not going to be much interesting programming coming from that horrible market except a lot of music.

And if you are trying to sell me the idea that 25% of all 11 million Cubans "speak" English, I'll meet you in NY to show you several bridges I have for sale. "Speaking" means to be able to carry on a reasonable conversation, not just being able to say a few phrases. "Speaking" ability would be required to understand news and such in English, too.

When a part of the US, Puerto Rico, with unrestricted travel and access to the US and everything American, including cable TV, has less than 25% bilingual people, you can't even jokingly suggest to me that Cuba is anywhere close.

We are not talking about a few people around the tourist zones and the shore in La Habana... we are talking about Pinar del Río and Camagüey and Bayamo and Santa Clara and all the rural areas and the 98% of Cuba where the Key West stations (nor any other US station on FM) can be heard at all.

 

[led]

Let me clarify something to DavidEduardo:
numero uno: My command of English far from being perfect it is good enough to understand what I read from the first time. On top of that considering that my mother language is Spanish, my English is OK.... besides that I speak also another 2 languages... I do not live in Cuba anymore, neither in Miami nor in the USA.
numero two: I am not trying to sale anything, certainly not opinions. What I write here is my personal perception coming from someone that was born in Cuba and lived there for 30 years.
numero 3: I have being until now polite in this forum, like most of the participants, something that I cannot say about you when replying to the comments and opinions of the others.
have a nice day