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Have the rules changed re: Competing Commercials aired together

R

rickharrison

Lately, I have heard something that I always thought was verbotten. That is having two commercials for competing products airing together in the same break.

I have heard that almost daily lately - or perhaps I just noticed.

It just seems weird to hear two commercials in a row for two competing cars, for instance.

Any ideas? Is this just sloppy scheduling, or has the industry laxed its rules in this regard?
 
It can happen for a variety of reasons. This time of year it used to be "auto auto auto" so sometimes a traffic person would try "foreign" "domestic" "foreign" "domestic" but of course not likely this year... ??? ???
 
Most traffic systems has a product category that's assigned to the advertiser which should keep the spots separated. Sometimes they fall through the cracks but a good traffic manager should look over the logs and make any necessary adjustments. If two competitors have to run in the same break due to the amount of spots then at least they should be at opposite ends of the break.

The worst violation I ever heard was once on KJR-AM where a Comcast spot was immediately followed by a DirectTV spot (a testimonial by the Groz) totally dissing Comcast.
 
Strictly as a listener, I can only assume that those rules went out the window two decades ago.. with the advent of syndicated shows, the demise of spotload limits and 8-minute commercial sets.

If you don't mind your spot being 6 minutes into an 8 minute set, you can't really complain about your spot being up against a competitor's spot.

No, your account exec won't be taking you to lunch. We just fired all of them.

No, you can't get a jock to endorse your product. We just fired all our local jocks.

Shut up and write the check.
 
If I was a client, I would be complaining loudly, and even pulling spots if there is such lack of attention to detail by the station staff. I am sure there are lots of other media outlets that would love the spend, who would actually give consideration to client needs.
 
First - there really is no real "rule" about this. Just one of the long-time unwritten rules of radio. No competing spots back-to-back, no 2 female singers back-to-back, no slow songs back-toback, uptempo song at TOH, etc.

All of that is pretty much history and rightfully so. Personally, I usually don't care about back to back competitors. If the spots are entertaining and well done, no big deal. You'll see this a whole bunch with TV spots and it seems to work. The idea is saturation - if my Ford spot runs 15 times a day and your Mazda spot runs 5x, I'm happy. Plus, I'd be more concerned about placement. Ideally, I'd want first spot in the break. There have been sporadic efforts to charge for this. Or even last slot. One CHR I worked had the jock break in before the last spot with a quick "You're 30 seconds away from ... on KFFF" - the idea being listeners who are still there wi;ll stick through 30 more seconds to hear muisic. I'd want THAT 30 seconds.
 
I strongly disagree about competing ads in the same break. It could have a lot to do with the way I was taught by various bosses. I've know of clients threatening to pull ads because of traffic stuff ups. I get very edgy hearing clashes. As I said, it could just be the way I was taught.
 
Yeah, I have philosophical problems with back-to-back competing spots. We used to strictly prohibit same stopset, but that went out the window when the car dealers wanted very high frequency. And we put one going into the break, and one at the end.
 
Bill Wolfenbarger said:
Yeah, I have philosophical problems with back-to-back competing spots. We used to strictly prohibit same stopset, but that went out the window when the car dealers wanted very high frequency. And we put one going into the break, and one at the end.
Click to expand...

Solution, top n' tail the break. That way, clients can own the break (being the first & last thing a listener hears).
 
I recall a time when stations wouldn't even run competing spots in the same set. However, there are times when one client "saturates" a day or daypart and it is unavoidable. While most traffic systems have competing codes, I also think the last line of defense should be the jock (providing he/she is not tracked), to manually move competing spots when necessary.
 
I'm with all of you guys. I've been doing this awhile myself. But most of the posts here revolve around "used to be" or "I recall" or "I was taught."

It's all gone now, all different. What we were taught was good radio is just that - "was."

There are very few great radio wars these days, car dealers are tanking, radio jobs are melting like the ice caps. The scenario changes nearly daily. If I were a PD today, one of the last things i'd be worried about would be competing sponsors in the same stop set.

I don't even think sponsors care that much anymore. They just desperately need to sell product.

I think more advertisers need to totally re-think their relationship with media. For example, I don't watch much TV (I watch more online as I multitask) and when I do, it tends to be late night. Vern Fonk is as annoying as it gets - but effective. In fact, I'd call his campaigns minor league genius. The whole "japoopy" thing, the strange, Felliniesque visuals and the constant new spots means ... I will never forget that guy's name. I look in the Times classified and see a pathetic print ad for a dealer with some Fonk-looking guy named "Crazy Greg" and it just screams 1980. That guy doesn't get it.

I think Fonk might want to consider opening an ad agency for guerilla style media campaigns. I'd like to hear what he might come up with for radio.
 
It all comes down to YOU wanting to do what's right. I ALWAYS drop "in cue" the spots to find and play the most uptempo spot first and then shuffle competing/conflicting sponsors. It truly takes a second.
 
I'm with all of you guys. I've been doing this awhile myself. But most of the posts here revolve around "used to be" or "I recall" or "I was taught."


It's all gone now, all different. What we were taught was good radio is just that - "was."
Click to expand...
"

Sad, but true.

There are very few great radio wars these days, car dealers are tanking, radio jobs are melting like the ice caps. The scenario changes nearly daily. If I were a PD today, one of the last things i'd be worried about would be competing sponsors in the same stop set.
Click to expand...

If the PD is focused on QUALITY product, then that should also include traffic and making sure that traffic is best serving then needs of the advertisers.

I don't even think sponsors care that much anymore. They just desperately need to sell product.
Click to expand...

1, How can you sell a product, if their opposition is right next to them or in the same break?

2, I would say, it depends on whether the clients are agency or direct. Direct clients are more likely to care for what is aired, as they can be in contact with their AE, and can voice their concerns direct, and have more of a say (e.g. cancel contracts) if they are unhappy with how they are being treated by the station.
 
WKomm said:
I'm with all of you guys. I've been doing this awhile myself. But most of the posts here revolve around "used to be" or "I recall" or "I was taught."

It's all gone now, all different. What we were taught was good radio is just that - "was."

There are very few great radio wars these days, car dealers are tanking, radio jobs are melting like the ice caps. The scenario changes nearly daily. If I were a PD today, one of the last things i'd be worried about would be competing sponsors in the same stop set.

I don't even think sponsors care that much anymore. They just desperately need to sell product.

I think more advertisers need to totally re-think their relationship with media. For example, I don't watch much TV (I watch more online as I multitask) and when I do, it tends to be late night. Vern Fonk is as annoying as it gets - but effective. In fact, I'd call his campaigns minor league genius. The whole "japoopy" thing, the strange, Felliniesque visuals and the constant new spots means ... I will never forget that guy's name. I look in the Times classified and see a pathetic print ad for a dealer with some Fonk-looking guy named "Crazy Greg" and it just screams 1980. That guy doesn't get it.

I think Fonk might want to consider opening an ad agency for guerilla style media campaigns. I'd like to hear what he might come up with for radio.
Click to expand...

Vern Fonk, to his credit is trying to revive the old Jack Roberts schtick in his own way. And cheesy as the spots are, he's done alright with them because he knows some people staying up way late at night are probably worried about car insurance - happens sometimes.

And if sales and rates decline enough for radio, Vern Fonk just might bite. And he's exhausted almost every visual gag. With radio, there's more to the imagination.......
 
Someone above hit on it... back in the day of the jock playing each spot one at a time in a cart machine, the jock was the final front line of control and could re-arrange the order of the spots, putting the hottest ones first, keeping competitors apart, etc.

The reason this happens more now is that all the spot blocks play out of the computer as a fully intact block.

without the air talent (if there is one) having to start each one individually, much less go to the cart rack and pull them and stack them in a pile and look at the labels for conflicts.

used to be cart labels were color coded by talent, tempo, type of intro, extro, outcue, etc.

A jock put together the spot set like it was a song set, to keep listeners tuned in as long as possible and give the best spots a chance to actually work, to do their job.

Now with nearly universal computer based audio delivery systems in use the spot block is entirely scheduled by the traffic department.

If there is talent, the spot block is now something that just happens all by itself in the computer, something one does not need to be actively aware of and involved in.
 
Then there is the "crappy" sounding dry read from the client that is scheduled first in the break...the am jock shuffles that one down on the computer screen to play last...and then the sales manager is in my office giving me heat...cause the CLIENT who PAID for the privilege of being FIRST did not play then.. OMG. I tell the SM...Hey...notmarked on the log or on the spot title (do not move). Told the SM that there was nothing worse than a bad client read...dry...coming out of a killer station promo...he says...BFD...client paid and wants first.

The last two stations I've been at could have 2 or 3 car dealers in a spot break...2 spots breaks an hour...most of the time the car dealers were owned by the same "group"...hey...I say take the $$. IF they want that placement and they will still pay a good rate..take it. The days of exclusivity in a break are over...unless the client is paying for it...
 
First, kudos for WKomm for not only contributing in a positive way, but nailing on the head with mentioning how the old rules are gone.

That said, car spots have been running in the same spot set for a LONG time, dating back to the 1980s, and if I remember correctly, even sometimes in the 1970s. I don't think any of this is really new, other than someone who happens to be a Radio-Info member noticing this.

In the end, it ups the ante for the car dealers and forces them to get creative with their spots. However, some of that creativity usually results in an annoying jingle that usually makes one want to open up a vein.
 
AQH - Unless trifled with, I'm a real upbeat guy. I just can't stand the brayings of Doris. So I carved out a little RI Board space, let 'er rip and apparently bunched up some undies. So be it ...

These threads take strange twists, so ...

Whatever happened to Dick Balch? I'm amazed how many "older" Seattle media types I run into have no idea who he was.
 
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