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Having Faith in the HD Radio Industry

S

SayNoToIBOC

Guest
David Eduardo replied, from a previous post: "The only potentially serious competion for radio is the Motorola WiMax system, which is years away. And which will have considerable broadcaster involvement in populating the channels."

My reply, from a previous post: "Motorola Rolls Out iRadio Service (435 COMMERCIAL-FREE radio channels, for $7.00/month)". Also, as I stated, Cingular offers 80 Internet radio stations.

David Eduardo replied, from a previous post: "There are very few English speaking Internet radio stations, outside of the United States."

My reply, from a previous post:

http://www.internetmusiclist.com/radios/music.asp?L=English&music

I wrote, from a previous post: "they don't even carry them in stock in his store, yet."

David's reply, from a previous post: " Funny, but it says Spring on all the RS locations I have driven past. Anyway, RS announced that they will carry several HD radios in September, so this is another of your non-facts."

My reply: The RS saleman stated, that they will be carrying one HD radio - the Receptor HD.
 
David Eduardo replied, from a previous post: "The only potentially serious competion for radio is the Motorola WiMax system, which is years away. And which will have considerable broadcaster involvement in populating the channels."

My reply, from a previous post: "Motorola Rolls Out iRadio Service (435 COMMERCIAL-FREE radio channels, for $7.00/month)". Also, as I stated, Cingular offers 80 Internet radio stations.

--> There is no roll-out. The system is in development.

David Eduardo replied, from a previous post: "There are very few English speaking Internet radio stations, outside of the United States."

My reply, from a previous post:

http://www.internetmusiclist.com/radios/music.asp?L=English&music

---> English is not the language of most of the world. There is very little in English outside the US. Canada, England, Australia, New Zealand and such are, together, very few compared to what comes from the US. And if you want news of, as you said, the Middle East, you are not going to get any authoritative English voices on the Internet. You may get people streaming music, but not a web service with a news operation in English.

I wrote, from a previous post: "they don't even carry them in stock in his store, yet."

David's reply, from a previous post: " Funny, but it says Sprint on all the RS locations I have driven past. Anyway, RS announced that they will carry several HD radios in September, so this is another of your non-facts."

My reply: The RS saleman stated, that they will be carrying one HD radio - the Receptor HD.

---> As I said, I would not trust a RS salesperson to tell me what time it is. RS has announced it will carry a "line" of HD products. So has Best Buy, Circuit City, Tweeter, etc.
 
DavidEduardo said:
David Eduardo replied, from a previous post: "The only potentially serious competion for radio is the Motorola WiMax system, which is years away. And which will have considerable broadcaster involvement in populating the channels."

My reply, from a previous post: "Motorola Rolls Out iRadio Service (435 COMMERCIAL-FREE radio channels, for $7.00/month)". Also, as I stated, Cingular offers 80 Internet radio stations.

--> There is no roll-out. The system is in development.

David Eduardo replied, from a previous post: "There are very few English speaking Internet radio stations, outside of the United States."

My reply, from a previous post:

http://www.internetmusiclist.com/radios/music.asp?L=English&music

---> English is not the language of most of the world. There is very little in English outside the US. Canada, England, Australia, New Zealand and such are, together, very few compared to what comes from the US. And if you want news of, as you said, the Middle East, you are not going to get any authoritative English voices on the Internet. You may get people streaming music, but not a web service with a news operation in English.

I wrote, from a previous post: "they don't even carry them in stock in his store, yet."

David's reply, from a previous post: " Funny, but it says Sprint on all the RS locations I have driven past. Anyway, RS announced that they will carry several HD radios in September, so this is another of your non-facts."

My reply: The RS saleman stated, that they will be carrying one HD radio - the Receptor HD.

---> As I said, I would not trust a RS salesperson to tell me what time it is. RS has announced it will carry a "line" of HD products. So has Best Buy, Circuit City, Tweeter, etc.
Click to expand...

I don't know who originally posted the statement that "there is very little in English outside the US, Canada, England, Australia, and New Zealand," but whoever it was hasn't visited India, China (especially Hong Kong), Japan, Singapore, or Taiwan. That's well over two billion people, a large and growing fraction of whom can speak English and use it daily in commerce and in government. Those nations also have many English-language Short Wave broadcast programs, not all of which are intended for out-of-country listeners.

The international language of commerce, diplomacy, science, aviation, and ham radio is English, and SI (the modern metric system, formulated in 1960) is the international system of measurement. (I wish the US would get off its collective posterior and convert to SI as every other country [except Burma, a.k.a. "Myanmar" and Liberia] has, but that's a discussion for another forum.)


-- Jason
 
JasonW said:
I don't know who posted the statement about there being "very little in English outside the US, Canada, England, Australia, and New Zealand," but whoever it was hasn't visited India, China, Japan, Singapore, or Taiwan. That's well over two billion people, a large and growing fraction of whom can speak English and use it daily in commerce. Those nations also have many English-language Short Wave broadcast programs, not all of which are intended for out-of-country listeners.

The international language of commerce, diplomacy, and science is English, and SI (the modern metric system, formulated in 1960) is the international system of measurement. (I wish the US would get off its collective posterior and convert to SI, but that's a discussion for another forum.)
Click to expand...

Perhaps I should have said, "compared to the USA" that there is very little English webcasting outside the US. If you add Canada, England, Australia, etc., you have only a tiny fraction of the US-originated English content.

The original poster who is no stranger to obfuscation and downright lying (see his item on Motorola's Clearwire being "avaialble"), stated that one could get breaking news in English from all over the world. What I found was that one could get lots of English music streams, but not a lot of news or information or spoken word content when compared to what originates in the US.

Whether English is used for ATC operations world-wide is immaterial. What is germane to this discussion is whether there is news content streaming from all these places in a large amount. The fact is, most English langauge spoken content comes from the USA.

As an example, most of the new commercial stations in India are in langauges other than English (the biggest format is Bollywood film songs, by the way) and this is true for all but the English language nations, which are few.

Plenty of streams with English music exist... even from places like Perú, where plenty of stations play English tunes but with Spanish jocks and ads (and news) and few understand much English.

Shortwave is not in the scope of this discussion. English SW broadcasts are mostly propaganda or religious in content. There are few, if any, SW broadcasts in English that contain local breaking news content outside of that context.
 
SayNoToIBOC said:
You have lost, what little credibility you already had:

http://radio.about.com/od/pdasipodscellphones/a/aa010406a.htm
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1764799,00.asp
http://wistechnology.com/article.php?id=1560
Click to expand...

Which was more credibility than you have.

You keep talking about "WiMax" and Cell phone technology...most of which is less ready and accepted than HD.

It's like a little kid who doesn't like candy, and tries to convince everyone that broccoli is MUCH better. Who cares that others may like candy...I like broccoli, therefore everyone else must.

Anyway, no need to get mad. We still like you. Heck, you've done so much work letting people know that HD is out there. I'm sure several people have tried HD already, just to see what you're talking about. Someone probably even bought a radio!

Thanks! HD radio is just getting off of the ground - any PR is good PR!

Keep up the good work on behalf of HD Radio.
 
Have faith in the HD Radio folks? Lets see:

--- Their benefits are for the central portion of large metropolitan areas, leaving 99% of the land area of the United States with increased interference on AM.

--- Everybody knows that eventually HD-2,3, etc. will air commercials to bolster the bottom line of marginal FM stations that continue to slit each other's throats trying to compete as it is. Don't pretend otherwise, people aren't stupid.

--- They want me to spend $300 for a RADIO? C'mon! I have a million in the bank, it didn't get there because I made foolish purchases like that! When HD radios are $20 at Walmart - give me a call and I'll see if it really sounds any better.

--- Ibiquity's own samples of digital AM sound more like shortwave stations fading or bad streaming audio. We jam the whole AM band for THAT?!

--- AM talk stations need good clear, wideband mono - NOT digital stereo. The only benefit for a talk/sports station is to make the occasional musical bed or commercial be in stereo. We jam the AM band over 99% of its land area so 1% of the land area of the US can get stereo COMMERCIALS and a few seconds of stereo musical beds? MADNESS!!!!

--- Ibiquity's own sample of analog FM is a degraded, mono, fringe signal - why - because digital FM doesn't really sound that much better compared to regular FM. The average listener in a car rumbling down the road will never hear a lower noise floor because road noise dominates the noise they hear by the root sum squared law.

And you want me to TRUST these folks? WHAT have you been smoking! I just as soon trust an identity thief as these folks. Bad engineering done by middle level managers with a lot of marketing people hyping it.
 
Have faith in the HD Radio folks? Lets see:

===>> First, there is no HD Radio "industry." There is the radio industry, which is using HD like it used FM stereo... it is a tool. There is no separate industry.

--- Their benefits are for the central portion of large metropolitan areas, leaving 99% of the land area of the United States with increased interference on AM.

=== >> Funny. I heard this when FM stereo was aproved... "You can't get the stereo signal very far, and it increases multipath." However, the huge bulk of FM listening (95% for most markets) is in the 64 dbu contour, where HD is robust.

--- Everybody knows that eventually HD-2,3, etc. will air commercials to bolster the bottom line of marginal FM stations that continue to slit each other's throats trying to compete as it is. Don't pretend otherwise, people aren't stupid.

===>> HD2 is supposed to air commercials. We are airing them already on some of the HD 2 channels. Nobody said it would be commercial free. The promise is that the delivery method is free. Most viable signal FMs are not marginal. The few that are not are ultra rimshots, or ones in places where there are more snakes than people.

--- They want me to spend $300 for a RADIO? C'mon! I have a million in the bank, it didn't get there because I made foolish purchases like that! When HD radios are $20 at Walmart - give me a call and I'll see if it really sounds any better.

===>> Car radios found in Houston at $159. Price point by Q4 at around $100. My first CD player was $1,400 but they came down, didn't they? Same with Plasma TVs, etc., etc.

--- Ibiquity's own samples of digital AM sound more like shortwave stations fading or bad streaming audio. We jam the whole AM band for THAT?!

===>> I don't have to listen to samples. We have about 25 of these suckers on the air, and 5 of them right here in LA. They sound nothing like what you say, neither AM nor FM. The AM is extremely clean, as long as stations do not do cascading codecs ahead of the HD encoder.

--- AM talk stations need good clear, wideband mono - NOT digital stereo. The only benefit for a talk/sports station is to make the occasional musical bed or commercial be in stereo. We jam the AM band over 99% of its land area so 1% of the land area of the US can get stereo COMMERCIALS and a few seconds of stereo musical beds? MADNESS!!!!

===>> AM is totally uninteresting and appealing for people under 45, who do not listen in droves: the AM share of listening in 12-44 is 10%. Some individual FM staitons do better than that! Analog AM audio will never bring younger demos, and the band is ageing 1 year every 18 months (averagelistener age) and will soon have no advertiser appeal at all.

--- Ibiquity's own sample of analog FM is a degraded, mono, fringe signal - why - because digital FM doesn't really sound that much better compared to regular FM. The average listener in a car rumbling down the road will never hear a lower noise floor because road noise dominates the noise they hear by the root sum squared law.

===>> HD FM sounds considerabley better, since, to start with, it has no preemphasis. Add the fact that we are all using much less processing as it is a digital signal, and you have nice sound. Then you have HD 2 channels, adding diversity to the market. With our Tejano HD 2 in Houston, we sold out every HD radio in the market in a few days, and have generate many orders to places like J&R and Crutchfield.

And you want me to TRUST these folks? WHAT have you been smoking! I just as soon trust an identity thief as these folks. Bad engineering done by middle level managers with a lot of marketing people hyping it.

===>> Lucent did the initial development, then spun iBiquity off. The investors include Intel and most broadcasters. Of course, you will say all of them / us are fools. Radio is not listened to the way it was 40 years ago. If we want to preserve the medium, this is a good change.
 
Avid Eduardo wrote, in the other thread: "The rokr phone, which has had horrible sales, is not the Intel/McCaw/Motorola Clearwire system. This is just a phone with an Internet connection and limited song storage. Clearwire is several years away, as I said."

Sorry, this is the Rokr E2 phone, which dumped iTunes for iRadio - nice try ! This phone is due out, now !

This type of technology, will help kill HD Radio, if HD Radio doesn't commit suicide, first:

"iRadio to Crowd Radio in the Dash"

http://www.rwonline.com/reference-room/iboc/2006.02.15-04_rw_iRadio_2.shtml
 
SayNoToIBOC said:
Avid Eduardo wrote, in the other thread: "The rokr phone, which has had horrible sales, is not the Intel/McCaw/Motorola Clearwire system. This is just a phone with an Internet connection and limited song storage. Clearwire is several years away, as I said."

Sorry, this is the Rokr E2 phone, which dumped iTunes for iRadio - nice try ! This phone is due out, now !
This just adds to your lack of credibility !
Click to expand...

And your anger towards him adds to your lack of credibility. It's amazing that you feel the need to bolster your side by attacking others. I thought, incorrectly, that you were above that!
 
Avid Eduardo wrote, in the other thread: "The rokr phone, which has had horrible sales, is not the Intel/McCaw/Motorola Clearwire system. This is just a phone with an Internet connection and limited song storage. Clearwire is several years away, as I said."

Sorry, this is the Rokr E2 phone, which dumped iTunes for iRadio - nice try ! This phone is due out, now !

===>> since the link does not work, I have no way of knowing this. The rokr in its first encarnation was not the kind of success the razr has been. And the fact is, any web phone is not a particularly good radio, unless you are the only person in America who never has a phone connection dropped. And it is, apparently, only going to one cellular company initially.

===>> I can listen to web radio streams on my Palm, complete with a mini RA app... That is not technology innovation, just a small step in marketing.

[/quote]
 
Now you're posting the same links in different threads. terrific. One size fits all. I wonder if I suggested that you stand in front of your local Circuit City with a sign stating, down with HD radio, Would I be held culpable for your actions?
 
rbrucecarter5 said:
Have faith in the HD Radio folks? Lets see:

--- Their benefits are for the central portion of large metropolitan areas, leaving 99% of the land area of the United States with increased interference on AM.

--- Everybody knows that eventually HD-2,3, etc. will air commercials to bolster the bottom line of marginal FM stations that continue to slit each other's throats trying to compete as it is. Don't pretend otherwise, people aren't stupid.

--- They want me to spend $300 for a RADIO? C'mon! I have a million in the bank, it didn't get there because I made foolish purchases like that! When HD radios are $20 at Walmart - give me a call and I'll see if it really sounds any better.

--- Ibiquity's own samples of digital AM sound more like shortwave stations fading or bad streaming audio. We jam the whole AM band for THAT?!

--- AM talk stations need good clear, wideband mono - NOT digital stereo. The only benefit for a talk/sports station is to make the occasional musical bed or commercial be in stereo. We jam the AM band over 99% of its land area so 1% of the land area of the US can get stereo COMMERCIALS and a few seconds of stereo musical beds? MADNESS!!!!

--- Ibiquity's own sample of analog FM is a degraded, mono, fringe signal - why - because digital FM doesn't really sound that much better compared to regular FM. The average listener in a car rumbling down the road will never hear a lower noise floor because road noise dominates the noise they hear by the root sum squared law.

And you want me to TRUST these folks? WHAT have you been smoking! I just as soon trust an identity thief as these folks. Bad engineering done by middle level managers with a lot of marketing people hyping it.
Click to expand...
DITTO!
--- Ibiquity's own sample of analog FM is a degraded, mono, fringe signal - why - because digital FM doesn't really sound that much better compared to regular FM. The average listener in a car rumbling down the road will never hear a lower noise floor because road noise dominates the noise they hear by the root sum squared law.
Click to expand...
And there is no comperable fringe coverage for HD Radio!
 
"Their benefits are for the central portion of large metropolitan areas, leaving 99% of the land area of the United States with increased interference on AM."

Even if this statement were true that 99% has no population. Broadcasters don't care about "land" they do care about population. I live in a very busy heavily populated part of the country and I experience no interference from IBOC stations and there are many in and out of market. I still receive all the stations I did prior to HD. Of course I no longer can hear that 790 Khz Pennsylvania station (WAEB) on my analogue radios (although I can with my receptor) when WABC is running IBOC, but that station is not a NY station and has no listeners here in the NY metro area. Funny thing, driving to Massachussettes the other day and even with all the NY IBOC activity, I had no trouble hearing stations "full quieting" on first and second adjacents within their protected contours.
 
autopaint said:
"Their benefits are for the central portion of large metropolitan areas, leaving 99% of the land area of the United States with increased interference on AM."

Even if this statement were true that 99% has no population. Broadcasters don't care about "land" they do care about population. I live in a very busy heavily populated part of the country and I experience no interference from IBOC stations and there are many in and out of market. I still receive all the stations I did prior to HD. Of course I no longer can hear that 790 Khz Pennsylvania station (WAEB) on my analogue radios (although I can with my receptor) when WABC is running IBOC, but that station is not a NY station and has no listeners here in the NY metro area. Funny thing, driving to Massachussettes the other day and even with all the NY IBOC activity, I had no trouble hearing stations "full quieting" on first and second adjacents within their protected contours.
Click to expand...

That "Central Portion" was pretty dumb, wasn't it? Most FMs do not have their transmitters downtown (exceptions being Chicago and NY) but out of town or on nearlby mountains. The HD signal covers just as musc as the USABLE analog signal.
 
SUPERCASTER said:
rbrucecarter5 said:
Have faith in the HD Radio folks? Lets see:

--- Their benefits are for the central portion of large metropolitan areas, leaving 99% of the land area of the United States with increased interference on AM.

--- Everybody knows that eventually HD-2,3, etc. will air commercials to bolster the bottom line of marginal FM stations that continue to slit each other's throats trying to compete as it is. Don't pretend otherwise, people aren't stupid.

--- They want me to spend $300 for a RADIO? C'mon! I have a million in the bank, it didn't get there because I made foolish purchases like that! When HD radios are $20 at Walmart - give me a call and I'll see if it really sounds any better.

--- Ibiquity's own samples of digital AM sound more like shortwave stations fading or bad streaming audio. We jam the whole AM band for THAT?!

--- AM talk stations need good clear, wideband mono - NOT digital stereo. The only benefit for a talk/sports station is to make the occasional musical bed or commercial be in stereo. We jam the AM band over 99% of its land area so 1% of the land area of the US can get stereo COMMERCIALS and a few seconds of stereo musical beds? MADNESS!!!!

--- Ibiquity's own sample of analog FM is a degraded, mono, fringe signal - why - because digital FM doesn't really sound that much better compared to regular FM. The average listener in a car rumbling down the road will never hear a lower noise floor because road noise dominates the noise they hear by the root sum squared law.

And you want me to TRUST these folks? WHAT have you been smoking! I just as soon trust an identity thief as these folks. Bad engineering done by middle level managers with a lot of marketing people hyping it.
Click to expand...
DITTO!
--- Ibiquity's own sample of analog FM is a degraded, mono, fringe signal - why - because digital FM doesn't really sound that much better compared to regular FM. The average listener in a car rumbling down the road will never hear a lower noise floor because road noise dominates the noise they hear by the root sum squared law.
Click to expand...
And there is no comperable fringe coverage for HD Radio!
Click to expand...

You IBOC Haters are funny! You keep regurgitating the same non-truths and opinions over and over:

$300 radios. (They can ne had for under $200)

HD2-and-3 will carry commercials (So will XM and Sirius, and you'll pay for the privilege)

AM sounds like shortwave (Have you heard AM in realtime? Thought so. The samples do it no justice)

AM needs wideband mono for talk. (Who says they'll continue with talk? They can now do music.)

FM doesn't sound much better than analog. (Your opinion, obviously. The people I've demoed it for at a big public event ALL said it sounded much better)

You guys sound like a broken record. I guess if you repeat the same things over and over they become true?
 
Oh under $200 - you mean $199 ! HD radios will not sell, until they approach the cost of analog AM/FM radios, at $25 - $50, but that will never happen ! Who are you kidding !
 
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